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Chinese president Xi Jinping has vowed to lead the “new world order”

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I would love to see what the general opinion of the Chinese being world leaders is in different countries around the world. I would bet money that most people who dislike the idea are either from the US or UK. And I would bet a significant portion of the world population wouldnt mind the Chinese being the leaders of the world, if someone must absolutely lead it and call the shots.

Cause the rest of the world isnt exactly enamored with how the US has lead it so far.

Give any middle or working class person the option of living in the US or living in China and see which one they pick.

The US isn't perfect by any means, but our leadership has been a net-positive for the world overall. With Chinese leaders, fears like government controlled information, the spread of the Great Firewall effecting global internet access, and the demolition of worker's rights swiftly become reality.

The core values of America are far more progressive than what you'd find in Russia or China. Even if the Trump era is disastrous, we'll have strong principles with which to recover.
 
Can someone explain to me how One China is good and how we went from "China is an oppressive faux-communist regime" to "China is great!". I'm being serious. One China seems absolutely fucking ridiculous and equivalent to letting Kim Jong-Un legally believe he a ruler of a unified Korea.
 

Micael

Member
Oh and this was Pre Trump under Obama.

Well saying pre trump when it comes to USA warmongering isn't really saying much, I mean the drone attacks increased massively under obama, and the all surveilence on their own citizens didn't diminish (as far as I know), I mean that last one alone should be enough, it is a dictators wet dream.

That being said it isn't really fair, the reason why the USA is feared like that, is also because they have by extremely far the largest military out of any other country, along with the largest economy, and as their main ally they have the EU, an economy comparable in size, with also quite a lot of military power (in the member countries), between the EU and the USA there is enough money and military power to face the rest of the world several times over, so even if you don't think the USA is going to start invading countries left and right, it is still highly logic to assume they are the biggest threat.
 

jerry113

Banned
Curious how many here are accepting China and their call to lead the new world.

Are you guys crazy?

I'm perfectly content with China taking the lead in the fight against climate change, particularly. At least their government is accepting the basic science.

America's pulling out of the Paris Climate Change accords completely. What a waste.

When the effects of climate change start affecting residents of first world countries directly, America's denial of climate change is going to look massively stupid in the eyes of the international world.
 

Tacitus_

Member
Give any middle or working class person the option of living in the US or living in China and see which one they pick.

The US isn't perfect by any means, but our leadership has been a net-positive for the world overall. With Chinese leaders, fears like government controlled information, the spread of the Great Firewall effecting global internet access, and the demolition of worker's rights swiftly become reality.

The core values of America are far more progressive than what you'd find in Russia or China. Even if the Trump era is disastrous, we'll have strong principles with which to recover.

Your leadership is now against vaccines, doesn't believe that climate change is real and wants to destabilize the EU.
 

Akiraptor

Member
Can someone explain to me how One China is good and how we went from "China is an oppressive faux-communist regime" to "China is great!". I'm being serious. One China seems absolutely fucking ridiculous and equivalent to letting Kim Jong-Un legally believe he a ruler of a unified Korea.

I find it ironic that people complaining about the US government in this thread are clamoring for a Chinese dominated world. China and Russia have far worse human rights records than the US could hope to have, and that seems to be glazed over in the minds of some of these posters.

The US isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but the hyperbole in this thread is absurd.
 
I would love to see what the general opinion of the Chinese being world leaders is in different countries around the world. I would bet money that most people who dislike the idea are either from the US or UK. And I would bet a significant portion of the world population wouldnt mind the Chinese being the leaders of the world, if someone must absolutely lead it and call the shots.

Cause the rest of the world isnt exactly enamored with how the US has lead it so far.

threat-world-peace.jpg




Oh and this was Pre Trump under Obama. Its kinda telling when even your allies think you are a threat to the peace of the world.

Strange because the world with the US "in charge" has been probably the most peaceful the world has ever seen. The wars today are like peanuts in terms of human loss of life and destruction compared to the most recent pre-"Pax Americana" wars. People just have no perception of the past or how good they have it today.

Why should a non-US citizen accepting the US as the leader of the world? A multipolar world will bring more peace and prosperity than ever before.

Almost never true. When you have multiple powers, you have multiple competing powers that must maintain equality in power to keep the multi-polar world alive. A multipolar world is basically an unstable global keeping up with the joneses until it explodes in the most destructive conflicts humanity has ever seen. Have you thought about reading up on the first half of the 20th century? It has a couple minor examples of this.

The dynamics have changed after nuclear weapons but people don't change that much
 
Give any middle or working class person the option of living in the US or living in China and see which one they pick.

The US isn't perfect by any means, but our leadership has been a net-positive for the world overall. With Chinese leaders, fears like government controlled information, the spread of the Great Firewall effecting global internet access, and the demolition of worker's rights swiftly become reality.

The core values of America are far more progressive than what you'd find in Russia or China. Even if the Trump era is disastrous, we'll have strong principles with which to recover.

But that is not what this is about at all? We arent picking ideal places to live. We are picking a world leader that would do the least harm world wide.

And what America's values are and what it projects and works towards in other countries are radically different. America's leadership has been a net positive towards America and maybe a handful of countries.

Strange because the world with the US "in charge" has been probably the most peaceful the world has ever seen. The wars today are like peanuts in terms of human loss of life and destruction compared to the most recent pre-"Pax Americana" wars. People just have no perception of the past or how good they have it today.

America has as much to do with the "peace" of the world as it had to do with starting the wars that happened before it was in charge.

Try telling someone in the middle east or east asia how peaceful and benevolent the American leadership has been. A large part of the world's population hates you for a very good reason.
 

Liha

Banned
Almost never true. When you have multiple powers, you have multiple competing powers that must maintain equality in power to keep the multi-polar world alive. A multipolar world is basically an unstable global keeping up with the joneses until it explodes in the most destructive conflicts humanity has ever seen. Have you thought about reading up on the first half of the 20th century? It has a couple minor examples of this.

The dynamics have changed after nuclear weapons but people don't change that much


If we would have a multipolar system whereby US, China, India and Russia all have relative the same power status with no single one able to dominant, it would naturally lean more towards cooperation.
 
I disagree with much of classic Chinese philosophy being of the highest level of human rights. Certainly women and men were not viewed as equals for most of Chinese history. The prevailing philosophies generally favored order with men at the top. More exceptional women usually had their history written out or not preserved, while powerful women that could not be ignored were villified by later historians. That is not counting ethnic problems over the centuries.

The strength of that patriarchal cultural philsopohy dribbles down to today even in places far from China.

Aside from ethnic and gender worries, I think more problematic for China is the culture of materialism that sprung up out of this drastic change into a wealth-driven society. I used to think that eventually enough of the population would be educated enough to where the government would enter transitional democracy, but with Brexit and Trump, it's hard to believe that 'progress is inevitable' anymore.

What I was referring to is mostly Zen and Daoism, which I personally feel, and what many civilizations also have some sense of (Native Americans, Indians, East Asians, etc.). Man, himself, and nature, the circle of life itself being central to create a sense of spiritual perception and world existence that is inherently meaningful without any real religion or idolization of God. Actually, the hippy spiritual stuff and meditation and yoga in the West relates to it as well, the need for fulfillment. Sadly most people in China has lost the sense of this I feel, due to rapid development and having to get a better life, and the advent of materialism and consumerism just being a recent thing has created a culture that is currently quite focused on materialism and not as much the spirit. I feel it will balance out in the future, just as how the culture in the West started a trend towards it.

Confucius stuff itself I do not know that much of since it does not speak to me as much, but I think we should always apply philosophy pragmatically to current standards, and obviously equality between sexes has advanced since thousands of years ago. Certainly his philosophies can be applied in a modern way if one is not too stuck up in the fundamentals and history. Chinese women now have more power compared to before and things are still improving, still not as equal as the West yet though ( then again, the women in China in other ways have more control over men, so it all balances out perhaps).
 

Deepwater

Member
Strange because the world with the US "in charge" has been probably the most peaceful the world has ever seen. The wars today are like peanuts in terms of human loss of life and destruction compared to the most recent pre-"Pax Americana" wars. People just have no perception of the past or how good they have it today.

Tell that to Syrians or Iraqis or Afghanis who have/had to worry about a bomb dropping on their head from American Planes.

Just because WE are enjoying the security and comfort of American imperialism doesn't mean that the rest of the world is.
 

Jacob

Member
Xi's certainly been making an effort at this, but China needs a true blue-water navy and global power projection capability for this kind of rhetoric to have meaning. They've started moving in that direction but still have a very long way to go. Trump scrapping the TPP definitely opens up opportunities for China to further increase their soft power through trade agreements and the like, though.
 
Can someone explain to me how One China is good and how we went from "China is an oppressive faux-communist regime" to "China is great!". I'm being serious. One China seems absolutely fucking ridiculous and equivalent to letting Kim Jong-Un legally believe he a ruler of a unified Korea.
Because anything that can oppose Trump is seen as a good thing, apparently. Some people just don't realize how disgusting Chinese reign is. They just want to bitch about how shitty their lives are with Trump, when they have no idea that Chinese leadership is a joke and an insult to basic freedoms.

GAF can be incredibly immature.
 
But that is not what this is about at all? We arent picking ideal places to live. We are picking a world leader that would do the least harm world wide.

And what America's values are and what it projects and works towards in other countries are radically different. America's leadership has been a net positive towards America and maybe a handful of countries.

This, most people consume American lifestyle pop culture, and they do like it.
Given a choice, everyone most would want to live in a developed nation like America.
But the development of America and the profits that American companies and the government made off the rest of the world, and the methodologies used that caused true instability and destruction to others' countries is still real. The privilege of lifestyle and luxuries came at a cost that most people do not think about, and that is not to blame American citizens, but people should understand why other nations dislike America.
 
When US was 'leading' the world, not every country suddenly adopted US ideals and we all became like them living in first world conditions.

Don't know why you guys are suddenly panicking over China 'leading' the world and citing living conditions in China and rights. You're not going to suddenly lose the ability to vote for more Donald Trumps in the future just because of China.
 

Jenov

Member
Not sure why anyone would want to be on board with a world power that champions brutal crackdown of political dissidents and massive state controlled censorship. Yeah, have fun with that... America has its own problems for sure but I'd choose the US or the EU over China/Russia any day.
 

Condom

Member
Oh shit it's happening

Not sure why anyone would want to be on board with a world power that champions brutal crackdown of political dissidents and massive state controlled censorship. Yeah, have fun with that... America has its own problems for sure but I'd choose the US or the EU over China/Russia any day.

Bet you're not living in Iraq?
 
Not sure why anyone would want to be on board with a world power that champions brutal crackdown of political dissidents and massive state controlled censorship. Yeah, have fun with that... America has its own problems for sure but I'd choose the US or the EU over China/Russia any day.

You know this isn't a matter of which country you prefer to stay in right? US lead the world for a few decades but you don't see all of us living like Americans.
 

Jenov

Member
Oh shit it's happening



Bet you're not living in Iraq?

I don't have to live in Iraq to know how awful China would treat a foreign countries citizens. They deny basic freedoms even to their own citizens and jail and torture dissidents, so I'm under no illusion that citizens in a foreign country would be treated any better. China doesn't even play well with their SE Asian neighbors, nor respect their territorial boundaries, lol. But sure, maybe Iraq might be better off until China decides it needs more oil.

You know this isn't a matter of which country you prefer to stay in right? US lead the world for a few decades but you don't see all of us living like Americans.

Obviously. And as a westerner, I'd prefer a western super power because of a respect of more freedoms.
 

Erheller

Member
True. But even the US is currently beating china in terms of wealth disparities.

Not true.

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/2/16/14636472/income-wealth-inequality-gap-china-bad-us-worse

The United States has a long history of wide wealth and income distribution gaps. The new data shows that the top 1 percent of earners make 20 percent of total income in the country, while the bottom half only make 12 percent of the total income.

In China, the gap is completely different. The earners at the bottom actually collectively make more than the top earners. The bottom 50 percent make 15 percent of the total income and the top make around 13 percent.


Another key difference between income inequality in China and the US has to do with growth in income for both groups since 1978. In China, all groups experienced huge increases in their incomes as a result of China’s economic reforms in the 1980s. But in the US, the bottom 50 percent saw absolutely no growth over the same time period.
 

Maximus.

Member
China can't even take care of its own people

Lol and America is doing such a wonderful job of taking care of its people/country.

Not saying this is a positive, just find it funny how fast the perception of the USA has fallen in a few short weeks.
 

Lautaro

Member
Fuck all the superpowers, a multipolar world may be unstable but it should lead to the creation of alliances that are pretty much the best we can hope for (or deserve).
 

Mumei

Member
But that is not what this is about at all? We arent picking ideal places to live. We are picking a world leader that would do the least harm world wide.

And your suggestion here is that China would be that country?

America has as much to do with the "peace" of the world as it had to do with starting the wars that happened before it was in charge.

Try telling someone in the middle east or east asia how peaceful and benevolent the American leadership has been. A large part of the world's population hates you for a very good reason.

I might be misreading him, but I don't believe he is telling anyone that the US is peaceful or benevolent. The benefits of US hegemony are not because the US is benevolent, after all; they happen because the US has (historically) seen them as beneficial to the US.

This is probably the best explanation I've come across:

Grand strategy is a set of ideas for deploying a nation's resources to achieve it's interests over the long run. The descriptor ”grand" captures the large-scale nature of the strategic enterprise in terms of time (long-term, measured in decades), the stakes (the interests concerned are the large, important, and most enduring ones), and comprehensive (the strategy provides a blueprint or guiding logic for a nation's policies across many areas). Grand strategy is thus far less variable than foreign policy, which changes from one administration to the next or even within a single presidency (as when Ronald Reagan shifted from a hard line to a more accommodating approach to the Soviet Union in his second term). While foreign policy analysis is often preoccupied with such shifts, the study of grand strategy invites a longer-term view that looks broadly at all of the issues encompassed by the US approach to the world. That perspective reveals a set of core pillars that have underlaid US foreign policy for seven decades.

Ever since the dawn of the Cold War, the United States has sought to advance its fundamental national interests in security, prosperity, and domestic liberty by pursuing three overlapping objectives: (1) managing the external environment in key regions to reduce near- and long-term threats to US national security; (2) promote a liberal economic order to expand the global economy and maximized domestic prosperity; and (3) creating, sustaining, and revising the global institutional order to secure necessary interstate cooperation on terms favorable to US interests. The connection between essential American interests and these three larger objectives did not spring forth from the pen of George F. Kennan or any single strategist. It emerged from the rough-and-tumble process of solving more immediate problems, as US leaders progressively discovered the interdependence of security and economic goals and the utility of international institutions for attaining both.

The pursuit of those three core objectives underlies what is arguably the United States' most consequential strategic choice: to maintain security commitments to partners and allies in Europe, East Asia, and the Middle East. US administrations have consistently maintained that the security commitments in these three key regions are necessary to shape the global environment and thus advance the grand strategy's three core objectives. During the Cold War, the commitments served primarily to prevent the encroachment of Soviet power into regions containing the world's wealthiest, potentially most powerful, and resource-rich states. But it is only in hindsight that Cold War containment seems so simple. As John Lewis Gaddis demonstrated, containing Soviet military might demanded economic recovery, which in turn appeared to require military assurances to instill the confidence needed to save, invest, and trade. So even though the Soviet military threat was not imminent (it was initially widely assumed that Moscow would be in no position to attack for a decade, at least) the United States found itself organizing political, military, and economic activity around the world to assemble a ”preponderance of power" over its Soviet adversary.

Discrete choices about how to respond to immediate challenges ultimately added up to a choice for a grand strategy of deep engagement. Each choice entailed rejection of an alternative - and these alternatives, taken together, would have added up to a different global strategy. The United States worked long and hard to foster an open global economy rather than adopting a noncommittal stance or, as it did in the 1930s, actually taking very significant actions that moved the world toward economic closure. In turn, the United States made a decided effort to advance necessary cooperation through international institutions rather than relying only a mix of ad hoc cooperative efforts and a unilateral approach. And in the security realm, the United States opted for formal alliances and a significant forward presence in Asia and Europe rather than relying entirely on local actors to prevent either of these key regions from falling under the domination of a hostile power.

In the security realm, the problem with pursuing the alternative, less engaged ”offshore balancing" approach in Asia and Europe was that local states were too weak to counter Soviet power without US help, and it was ultimately hard to see how to make them strong enough to balance the Soviet Union on their own without scaring neighbors and thus ruining alliance cohesion. In Europe, making frontline Germany strong enough to check the Soviet Union without a major US presence would have demanded German rearmament and acquisition of nuclear weapons, which risked alienating France and other neighbors and wrecking the alliance. To paraphrase Lord Ismay's famous dictum regarding NATO'S purpose, US officials concluded that keeping the Americans in was the ideal method for keeping the Soviets out while simultaneously keeping the Germans down.

The same story replayed in the looser Asian alliance setting, as US officials understood that a move by Japan toward remilitarization and nuclearization would radically destabilizie the allianes that were thought just barely able to contain Soviet and Chinese power. US leaders concluded that the only awy to achieve ”alignment despite antagonism" among prospective US partners was through active regional security management.

There are clear global commons benefits here—it reduces interstate conflict, it reduces arms racing, it reduces nuclear proliferation, and it maintains institutions for global cooperation and resolution of conflicts—but for the US those benefits are ancillary. But they are real. Regionally-focused security research in East Asia, for instance, agrees that the abrogation of US security commitments would lead to major-power security competition, militarized crises, and competitive support for rival smaller powers. In Europe, NATO's Article 5 is "an important part of the current institutional equilibrium in Europe"; its abrogation could potentially tear apart the security policies of major European powers and it will cause a collapse of concerted power in Europe. As one analyst puts it, strategic decoupling from Europe by the US "will incapacitate European foreign policy, invite Russian and other outside meddling, and compel the United States to sort out European affairs rather than mobilizing an Atlantic partnership for the management of global affairs." In Eastern Europe, basic political stability in, say, Latvia is deeply dependent on US involvement.

Consider the case of Latvia. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, it has managed an uneasy balance between its ethnic Latvian majority and a large Russian minority. Ethnic Russian leaders have pursued political accommodation and supported the country's Western orientation. Ignoring this success, Mr. Trump would give pro-Russian hotheads an opening — an incentive to challenge their moderate rivals, to attract Russian aid and media attention, and to threaten national unity. Last year, after an American military unit arrived in Latvia for a NATO exercise, the mayor of the capital, Riga — who heads the ethnic Russian party — told me he was glad to welcome the group with a visit aboard the Americans' ship. If Latvia's place in NATO became a divisive issue, would the mayor make such a gesture again?

Those seeking to divide the country are not the only ones who might act differently if Mr. Trump were president. I have heard Latvian security officials say that Mr. Putin's overnight seizure of Crimea in 2014 altered their thinking about how to keep Russia's ”little green men" from doing the same thing in Latvia. These officials now think they must be ready to snuff out threats before they materialize. Worry that Washington might not be with them in a crisis might well encourage harsher crackdowns. Hair-trigger policy is rarely smart politics, but that's where Mr. Trump's ideas lead.

By telling Latvians not to count on the United States, he encourages participants in an increasingly stable and legitimate political system to try confrontation rather than compromise. This pattern is hardly confined to the Baltic States. In Central Europe and the Balkans, doubts about American commitment could foster conflict. Tensions might build slowly, but by the time a problem came to the president's desk in Washington, it would be more dangerous than it is today. A President Trump might blame vulnerable allies. The real responsibility would be his.

American policy in Central and Eastern Europe since the Cold War ended has helped to create stability, prosperity, moderate politics and ethnic accommodation in countries that have rarely known them. These are remarkable achievements. It would be crazy to put them at risk.

Even in the Middle East, where the US's recent record is worst, most analyses predict a significant increase in nuclear proliferation; one of the reasons why the US should not fear a "proliferation cascade" if Iran were to obtain nuclear weapons is the US' security assurance for Iran's regional rivals. Additionally, Washington is able to use its partners' security dependence to force cooperation. For instance, Egypt and Israel both engaged in a peace process and in Israel's case made territorial concessions because of economic benefits, aid, and security assurances by the US to both sides. This was also true more recently in 2011 between Israel and Turkey, and even indirectly between Israel and Hamas (where the US had ties with both Israel and Turkey, Qatar, and Egypt). It is worth noting that the current level of US involvement in the region (e.g. post-2003 levels) is not necessary to achieve those kinds of effects; even the 1991–2002 period was probably excessive. But absent hegemonic stability provided by the US, you can imagine the open competition for regional dominance that would ensue between the large powers in the region.

And again, the US does not do these things because it is peaceful or benevolent or good. It believes that this system is beneficial to itself. And it is. US households represent 45.9% of the ownership of the top 500 multinational corporations; NA households are 41% of all global household assets and 42% of the world's millionaires as of 2011—despite the NA, European, and Asia-Pacific shares of GDP being roughly equal at a quarter each; the US has created a largely monopsonistic arms trading system for most of the world that has resulted in deeply asymmetrical interdependence between the US and its allies, where the US would suffer far less than its allies if defense production ties were suddenly cut. The US uses this asymmetric interdependence as influence by keeping allies dependent and excluding rivals (e.g. Russia and China), not just from its own market but using its market power to force other states to do the same.

The US uses these security commitments as leverage in negotiations with other states. It uses these security arrangements as leverage when it exercises leadership [read: power] in global institutions. It uses its position to rewrite global rules when it suits itself—for instance, as it did when it altered the rules of the Bretton Woods regime in 1971–1973 to change its bargaining position and force its creditors to make concessions. And yet, the hegemonic leadership that makes this possible for the US also makes it more likely that institutionalized cooperation and global order will be more dynamic and able to adapt with a hegemon that is able to provide leadership in pushing for necessary changes.

I'm not saying that the US' role has been perfect. It was responsible for a lot of the deaths you see on the chart I posted in response to Liha below between the end of World War II and the end of the Cold War. It has also been responsible for smaller scale atrocities around the world and especially in its own backyard in the form of destabilization, coups, and supporting dictators and strongmen. For countries that have had to experience this side of US hegemony, of course the fact that US hegemony has its upsides for other countries doesn't really matter. But I think the question here is not whether the US is good. I think the question is how would its potential replacements compare. Would China be less likely as a global hegemon to destabilize smaller countries that it views as opposing itself? Would China be willing to create systems of security commitments to increase regional stability? Would China similarly promote interstate cooperation and adherence to global institutional rules? I don't think that there's a credible argument that China would be better on these questions.

If we would have a multipolar system whereby US, China, India and Russia all have relative the same power status with no single one able to dominant, it would naturally lean more towards cooperation.

This does not follow. We have had a multipolar system before; we had the Napoleonic Wars, the Crimean War, the Franco-Prussian War, the Russo-Japanese War, World War I, and World War II over the course of just one part of that long history. If you go back more, you'll find even more. Since the end of the multipolar system, we have not had wars between major powers. Since the beginning of the unipolar system (after the fall of the USSR), we've seen historic lows in battle death rates:

ourworldindata_wars-after-1946-state-based-battle-death-rate-by-type-750x536.png


I don't know exactly whether or not the beginning of a new multipolar system will be more stable than it was before. Maybe nuclear weapons will create a holding pattern. Or maybe it will encourage nuclear proliferation and create more destabilization and distrust. But the idea that parity will lead to cooperation isn't something you should rely on, especially since near parity in the bipolar system while not leading to open war between the rival states did lead to intense arms racing and multiple crises that nearly led to nuclear war.
 

rpmurphy

Member
China is probably better than a country who's always itching to start bloody armed conflict with nations in all the continents of the world, but maybe that's just me. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
 

pigeon

Banned
To be frank, it's genuinely amazing that America was so successful at creating long-term peace and prosperity in the West that people in the West literally forgot that it was not guaranteed and now want to get rid of it.

Good luck in the trenches, I guess!
 
People thinking this is better than the US are clearly not thinking this through.

To put it nicely.

well, to be perfectly honest anything is better than 8 years of Bush II/Cheney/Rumsfeld et al and their illegal non-sensical wars plummeting a huge part of the world into chaos, and letting banks and investors do whatever the hell they like with the economy.. okay Trump might prove to be even worse, he really might. he might become the worst human being that has ever lived, and thats only slightly hyperbolic.

yeah i'll rather go with China. America failed so badly, how could they be trusted to lead the world anymore? the first 4 years of Bush II were already too much, ffs. i know the pendulum swings and sometimes America gets a leader like Obama who is actually human, but apparently those are just phases, someone a thousand times worse can and will come after.
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
China can't even take care of its own people

I don't think taking care of people is the real goal. Taking control is more like it.

The End game of this whole thing is called "Sustainability" or "Agenda 21". It comes from the UN, and it's being implemented locally first. If you read the guidelines, people's standard of living isn't an issue, in fact they mean to bring people's quality of life waaaay down, especially in America.
 

Helznicht

Member
At least they dont base election winning campaigns and policy based on hatred of my skin. Or deny science.

If they did have elections. If you think racism against darker skin tones isn't strong in China, you might want to do some research, they are not a culturally diverse people.
 

vonStirlitz

Unconfirmed Member
Well, it can take control of its people, if kidnapping of Journalists and businessmen, crushing dissent in HK, Xinjiang and Tibet, sabre rattling at the Taiwanese and most of SE Asia, putting down factory strikes ruthlessly, locking up lawyers, control of private enterprise, mass surveillance and restrictions on free speech is taken into account.

Yeah. Great model for the 21st century
 

Madness

Member
The only country supporting the DPRK is somehow "safeguarding international security"? Gimme a fucking break.

They have to say this stuff to sound tough in the face of ridiculous nationalism that they themselves fomented. Otherwise China is isolated internationally. Their closest allies are North Korea, Pakistan, Sudan, Iran, maybe Russia. They have zero political domination anywhere. Militarily are ridiculously outmatched against Russia and the US. They have disputes with almosy every neighbor from Japan, India, Vietnam, Philippines, not to mention face issues from Taiwan and Hong Kong being a democratic face for China etc.

They are not leading anyone anytime soon.
 
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