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[FGMPR]

Why is it that dildos and other forms of sexual humor are okay for film and TV but not videogames? And this coming from the guy behind curb stomping and beating people with their severed limbs?

I'd say it would have to do with the notion that film-making, as an art-form has been proven as legitimate by society as a whole, where as gaming hasn't. Low-grade movies that focus on "immature" humor can exist and have no lasting effect on what people think about the film industry as a whole because film-making has had its reputation forged over the past 100 years or so by the likes of Orsen Wells, Hitchcock, Kubrick etc; When you think of movies as a whole, you don't automatically think of 'American Pie', or 'The Godfather', for example. You think of it as a medium capable of both extreme's and everything in-between.

Gaming hasn't reached that point yet (if ever), and I'm guessing Cliffy is thinking along the lines of "a rising tide lifts all boats" in that as an art-form, we still have to reach those artistic highs before games like 'Saints Row' and in turn, an inherent immaturity isn't seen as the norm.

I agree with the second part completely though. If anything, a critical comment on the immaturity of certain games shouldn't be coming from someone who's responsible for mass market perceptions of gaming as violent and immature by including (as you say) the likes of curb-stomping and chainsaw-guns. It's kind of ludicrous, actually.

 

[CorrisD]

Isn't that supposed to be some typical American thing, anything sexualised is evidentially wrong and should be shyed away from, oh noes dildos, but violence and sawing a guy in half is a ok, more of that yea?

I thought Saints Row the Third was great, in a world where almost every game is trying to be this overly deep serious game and 95% fail miserably, it's nice to have a series that isn't trying to be something it's not.

I was late on the train that was SR, but it was one of the most enjoyable experience of 2012 for me, especially next to sequels that managed to shit in their own way on beloved series. By the sounds of the tweets from some deep silver person, they seem to be totally on board with the series.

Saints Row was and chances are is never going to beat GTA, at this point in time they are very much two different sides of a coin, and for that I am happy because I don't need to play the same game over and over.

So no cliffs b, I disagree.

 

[ShinobiFist]

Agreed 100%. Lucky I have a normal wife

Word.

 

[codhand]

My ideal wife would be less embarrassed by the dildos than the GoW dialogue. Didn't SR3 sell more than the first two?

 

[GazzaScotland]

How much of a hand did Cliffy have in Dick Tits?

 

[sflufan]

LOOK AT ALL DAT JUICE!

Please don't remind me of that. I still have nightmares.

 

[Strife91]

I'm so bored of killing people in video games. I'm too mature to find it funny. I'm not 16 anymore. Why don't they make a game about being a family man? You know, go to work 8 hours day. Come home to have your wife nagging at you. Spend some time with your loud and noisy children. Drink coffee and read a book on your day off. That would truly be something I would be interested to play.

 

[Dabanton]

I would be embarrassed if my wife walked in on me playing Bulletstorm.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[ponpo]

I've never played a Saints Row game but I've been laughing at this gif for years now so I say keep the pimps!

 

[UrbanRats]

I understand his point.

But, at the same time I don't think Volition was aiming for the same tone as GTAIV. I believe Volition wanted to make a crazy game and at the same time it had great mechanics. I think the closest thing to GTA is sleeping dogs, I haven't finished it, does the game get SR crazy at some point?

No, Sleeping Dogs stays pretty coherent to his Hong Kong action cinema style, all the way through (though in the last missions, you'll be using guns a lot more, nothing absurd though).

 

[SneakyStephan]

Dickbutt! Am I right cliffy? Hurhur.
I think the low brow sr3 stuff was just a ploy for more media attention aka free advertising, the game itself was better than gta but if they left that shit out it wouldn't suddenly be missing anything, Clifford is the last person in the world to comment on it though.

 

[Knux-Future]

Not every thing needs to be so serious.

 

[LiK]

Cliffyb became pretty boring after leaving Epic. Let's take out cursing to be different than GTA too.

 

[Derrick01]

There were dildos and gimps in San Andreas, the greatest open world game ever. But SR's problem is that it goes too far on the crazy spectrum to the point where it relies on its wackiness completely. The mission design sucks and there's not a lot of interesting things to do outside of missions except for even zanier and boring side activities. In SA those two things were about as wacky as it got yet it still had insane mission diversity and plenty of fun things to do.

 

[ezekielpacman]

That doesn't make any sense at all.

You've successfully explained dicktits to someone before? And don't come from the "he didn't make it" angle... he was heavily invested.

 

[Takamura-San]

I'm so bored of killing people in video games. I'm too mature to find it funny. I'm not 16 anymore. Why don't they make a game about being a family man? You know, go to work 8 hours day. Come home to have your wife nagging at you. Spend some time with your loud and noisy children. Drink coffee and read a book on your day off. That would truly be something I would be interested to play.

Well asking for a more serious tone is not something that is strange to games. The thing is that how do to tackle any serious issue while at the same time being a game that is fun to play. That discrepancy is the balance that i believe is difficult to strike.

Movies and music do not have that issue. Games inherently by definition are designed to entertain. Can you entertain while tackling, for example, political issues? Maybe... it would take great talent to achieve that.

 

[codhand]

If he'd said Mom instead of Wife, I think I'd be more inclined to agree. People I associate with in my peer group should find it amusing and or comical.

 

[UrbanRats]

I'd say it would have to do with the notion that film-making, as an art-form has been proven as legitimate by society as a whole, where as gaming hasn't. Low-grade movies that focus on "immature" humor can exist and have no lasting effect on what people think about the film industry as a whole because film-making has had its reputation formed over the past 100 years or so by the likes of Orsen Wells, Hitchcock, Kubrick etc; When you think of movies as a whole, you don't automatically think of American Pie, or The Godfather, for example. You think of it as a medium capable of both extreme's and everything in-between.

Gaming hasn't reached that point yet (if ever), and I'm guessing Cliffy is thinking along the lines of "a rising tide lifts all boats" in that as an art-form, we still have to reach those artistic highs before stuff like 'Saints Row' and in turn, immaturity isn't seen as the norm.

I agree with the second part completely though. If anything, a comment on the immaturity in certain games shouldn't be coming from someone who's responsible for mass market perceptions of gaming as violent and immature by including (as you say) the likes of curb-stomping and chainsaw-guns. It's kind of ludicrous, actually.

I agree that videogames are currently in another realm, compared to cinema, but Saint's Row is, very obviously, going for a specific chase of that immaturity, asking it to change is idiotic.
The ones who should look to become more mature, are exactly the games "in the middle", be them Army of Twos, Gears or Splinter Cells.

 

[badgenome]

That doesn't make any sense at all.

WHAT THE DICK? DICKTITS! DICKETY DICK DICK!

 

[DaBoss]

He's saying it like you have to use the dildo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Then again, there was a dildo in San Andreas.

and we're done here.

 

[lupinko]

Why do people keep getting the title for this series wrong, it's like on purpose wtf?

 

[Demon Lizardman]

Pretty Sure Marcus Fenix has a massive one considering how much he looks like a blowup doll.

 

[Ninjaholic]

Listen GAF, we should listen to CliffyB. After all he is an expert at putting embarrassing shit in a video game. As evident by the laughably bad Maria and Dom saga in Gears. That was way more out of place in the Gears games than dildo's in a series like Saints Row.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Cliff has a shit wife.

 

[Vaati]

Saints Row: The Third is better than any game Cliffy designed.

I put a lot of hours into SR3 and I only remember the dildo being in 1 cutscene and an optional weapon.

 

[CambriaRising]

Meanwhile in GTAIV:

Spoiler

Uncensored in-game

 

[DJSharpeCheddar]

Sounds like Cliffy never played Saints Row 1.

 

[Pooya]

How much of a hand did Cliffy have in Dick Tits?

nothing, it was all PCF actually, they said as much, same goes for Gears of War visual style and writing actually! he wanted something different and more serious.

over the top violence though are his ideas.

 

[Alucrid]

Send gimps with dildos to beat rock star devs

 

[Conciliator]

I don't care about the dildos I guess, but please don't lose the purple suits. Saints Row is purple.

 

[Dion Blaster]

I actually completely agree. The game does not need dildos to stand out. An dildos aren't the only thing a immature about the game. I love that its wacky and doesn't take itself seriously but I think the series is closer to supplanting GTA than it realizes.

 

[Takamura-San]

I'd say it would have to do with the notion that film-making, as an art-form has been proven as legitimate by society as a whole, where as gaming hasn't. Low-grade movies that focus on "immature" humor can exist and have no lasting effect on what people think about the film industry as a whole because film-making has had its reputation forged over the past 100 years or so by the likes of Orsen Wells, Hitchcock, Kubrick etc; When you think of movies as a whole, you don't automatically think of 'American Pie', or 'The Godfather', for example. You think of it as a medium capable of both extreme's and everything in-between.

Gaming hasn't reached that point yet (if ever), and I'm guessing Cliffy is thinking along the lines of "a rising tide lifts all boats" in that as an art-form, we still have to reach those artistic highs before games like 'Saints Row' and in turn, an inherent immaturity isn't seen as the norm.

I agree with the second part completely though. If anything, a critical comment on the immaturity of certain games shouldn't be coming from someone who's responsible for mass market perceptions of gaming as violent and immature by including (as you say) the likes of curb-stomping and chainsaw-guns. It's kind of ludicrous, actually.

The thing is that film can be many things: entertaining, funny, informative, dramatic, serious, fun, etc.

Video Games, for them to be effective, they have to be fun. If you make a video game that is not fun, the you have made a bad video game. I'm not saying that this is right, but it is the most common perception. It is this limitation that makes it difficult to make games that could be considered a more "serious" medium.

 

[UrbanRats]

Well asking for a more serious tone is not something that is strange to games. The thing is that how do to tackle any serious issue while at the same time being a game that is fun to play. That discrepancy is the balance that i believe is difficult to strike.

Movies and music do not have that issue. Games inherently by definition are designed to entertain. Can you entertain while tackling, for example, political issues? Maybe... it would take great talent to achieve that.

"entertainment" is a broad term.
Is Amour and entertaining film? The pacing is slow, there is basically no music, the story is dreadful (given the subject) etc etc.
It's different from something still sad in the subject, yet much more easily digestable, like a Shindler's List.

You could apply the same idea to games, they don't necessarily have to be "fun".

 

[Mael]

I'm so bored of killing people in video games. I'm too mature to find it funny. I'm not 16 anymore. Why don't they make a game about being a family man? You know, go to work 8 hours day. Come home to have your wife nagging at you. Spend some time with your loud and noisy children. Drink coffee and read a book on your day off. That would truly be something I would be interested to play.

EA got you covered, try the Sims.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

"entertainment" is a broad term.
Is Amour and entertaining film? The pacing is slow, there is basically no music, the story is dreadful (given the subject) etc etc.
It's different from something still sad in the subject, yet much more easily digestable, like a Shindler's List.

You could apply the same idea to games, they don't necessarily have to be "fun".

They then cease to be games by the very definition of the word. They become something different, what, interactive media? There will continue to be people who make and play video games, and another branch will continue to develop of people who want to make and experience interactive media.

 

[shinobi602]

There were dildos and gimps in San Andreas, the greatest open world game ever. But SR's problem is that it goes too far on the crazy spectrum to the point where it relies on its wackiness completely. The mission design sucks and there's not a lot of interesting things to do outside of missions except for even zanier and boring side activities. In SA those two things were about as wacky as it got yet it still had insane mission diversity and plenty of fun things to do.

Exactly.

 

[FGMPR]

I agree that videogames are currently in another realm, compared to cinema, but Saint's Row is, very obviously, going for a specific chase of that immaturity, asking it to change is idiotic.
The ones who should look to become more mature, are exactly the games "in the middle", be them Army of Twos, Gears or Splinter Cells.

I don't disagree (same with you Lord-Audie, I totally agree with your post). I love Saints Row as it is. I was just commenting on the reason I felt that Cliffy felt that industry perceptions were suffering because of games like SR3, not stating my own position on the matter.

 

[CorrisD]

nothing, it was all PCF actually, they said as much, same goes for Gears of War visual style and writing actually! he wanted something different and more serious.

over the top violence though are his ideas.

Not surprising really, I like Gears but to me any "deep" or "serious" moment in that series always fell flat on its face, I can't imagine what it would be like if they had tried to make it more so.

 

[Roland Deschain]

The hell lol?

How insulting. So if a person walks in on somebody playing a game with a guy beating people with giant dildos and goes "Wtf is this?", they're not normal?

My wife doesn't play games at all and I know for a fact if I was doing that and she walked in and saw that, that would be her reaction.

It's a videogame, they're not supposed to take it seriously. My gf walked in with one of her friends just while I was starting the mission where you're naked with the dildo. They also said 'Wtf is this?' but in an amused/baffled tone.

 

[Plywood]

Not affecting the perception of the Industry:

Affecting the perception of the Industry:

 

[UrbanRats]

They then cease to be games by the very definition of the word. They become something different, what, interactive media?

Who gives a fuck what they're called? Not me.
If they can keep my interest, by any means necessary, they'll have it.

There will continue to be people who make and play video games, and another branch will continue to develop of people who want to make and experience interactive media.

See the problem in your reasoning, imo, is that you divide it in two clear categories.
I love to play Super Mario, and i wouldn't mind playing something less directly interactive, like Walking Dead; they can cohexist and, more to the point, between them there can be so many shades of gray that a clear distinction would be meaningless.
I don't think videogames should sacrifice interactivity for maturity, i think that's an obession of this industry, because of its dick envy towards cinema, but i DO think that there could be much more to explore, in terms of what "interactivity" can mean.

 

[Feature]

Cliffy B talking about immature. How ironic considering his stupid shitty dudebro games. I bet he would just have everyone in the world have a body builder's body and call it a day.

He should also change wives if he has to be afraid of her coming in when playing a stupid game. Cliffy B is in no position to tell other people how to make games as his are absolute garbage first class.

ps: I never played SR1 & 2 and only played 30 minutes of SR3

 

[nickcv]

Probably child trauma, father would come in late at night.. IT'S DILDO TIME.

no cool, man

 

[Z_Y]

A lot of folks here seem to hold Saint's Row close to their hearts.

Or maybe they don't like Cliffy for some reason.

Little of both.

Man...Cliffy B gets a lot of hate around here. Never understood it. You think some people are jealous? Surely not.



That being said...I'm not sure I agree totally with him on this. SR is a strange beast. You either get the joke or you don't. Now it seems that maybe some people (i.e. Cliffy) think they got the joke but maybe they really didn't?

Or maybe some people thought they got the joke (i.e. me) but maybe there was no joke being made??? Ay Dios mio!

In summation....dildos confuse me.

 

[shinobi602]

It's a videogame, they're not supposed to take it seriously. My gf walked in with one of her friends just while I was starting the mission where you're naked with the dildo. They also said 'Wtf is this?' but in an amused/baffled tone.

I'm not saying my wife would be mad or anything, but she probably would think it's weird.

 

[AOC83]

As if they ever had the slightest chance to beat GTA, be it in quality or popularity.

 

[eXistor]

I say go even crazier for SR 4.

 

[Backfoggen]

Not looking forward to CliffyBs next project after this. Probably gonna be boring and generic as hell.

 

[Takamura-San]

I don't disagree (same with you Lord-Audie, I totally agree with your post). I love Saints Row as it is. I was just commenting on the reason I felt that Cliffy felt that industry perceptions were suffering because of games like SR3, not stating my own position on the matter.

The thing that i have about this argument is that is pretty narrow to encompass a whole medium by it lowest representation. Is like basically saying that film is completely represented by the lowest of it presentation. I can see his argument because the games that are usually at the forefronts are the ones that usually don't represent any serious issues. That is not a bad thing. But it creates a bad perception of what can really be achieved.