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[Durante]

Aping the super-serious, hyper-tense tone of a Michael Mann movie without considering how to make the mechanics of the game support that tone (eg. It almost certainly would no longer be an open-world game by the time it fit) just reeks of the unfortunate and all-too-common video game trend of trying to become 'mature' by adopting the most superficial aspects of more respected forms of media. It's a half-step removed from the Blood, Bullets, Boobs kind of 'mature' game, and I think ultimately does more to harm perception of the industry than any amount of silly, irreverent stuff ever could.

Well said. I agree that the type of gameplay SR wants to offer seems directly at odds with pursuing a serious dramatic narrative.

The reaction in this thread is ridiculous. Why is everyone so up in arms against CliffyB? What has he done to hurt you?

I don't see many people up in arms against CliffyB, certainly not everyone. I do see people disagreeing with his statement on Saint's Row, and arguing why it's ill-advised. Which is sort of the point of having a thread on it. Just ignore those that can't make a post without resorting to ad hominem.

 

[bryanee]

All I want to do now is play Saints Row 2 and 3 again.

Big purple dildo here I come.

 

[D4Danger]

How bout a torque bow that shoots armor piercing dildos with a delayed explosion?

you're hired

 

[Derrick01]

GTA:SA had both dildos and gimps

That's as crazy as it gets though. Cliffy I guess was limited to Twitter's tiny limit but SR's craziness and the problems it causes goes a lot further than that. I mean some of the things that happened in SR3 were

Spoiler

zombies, escaping a sex mansion on a chariot with a sex slave as the "horse", and fighting some guy in a virtual world as a toilet

.

It wasn't funny and more importantly wasn't fun to play.

 

[FonkyByNature]

cliff b, that guy that did gears of war that one time and is now backseat designer.

This ^

 

[SmokyDave]

I wonder if Cliffy has seen 'Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels'?


"Well, suffice to say, he got pissed."
"Well what happened?"
"He picked up the closest physical object he could get his hands on, which just happened to be a 15 inch black cock, and proceeded to beat the unlucky bastard to death with it. Certainly not the best way to go."

 

[ponpo]

Did GTA SA just contain a dildo somewhere in the game or do you swing around a giant dildo as a usable weapon? If it's not the latter then why so many comparisons.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I am just concerned about the previous quality of Koch Media products.

Dead Island, right? Techland make janky games. That's on them.

Volition are just a better developer.

 

[McBradders]

I think the rationalization that games can't be "stupid" like Saints Row because they somehow haven't matured enough yet is both contradictory and insecure. Kinda references the whole idea that the games industry is heavily pandering itself to every other form of established media and every medium questing for legitimacy, approval, or at least a pat on the head. Maybe so the people in the industry can feel better? I don't know.

Games exist, they are already a medium and a media. Every media has stuff like Saints Row, and the joke is that Saints Row is executed with more actual taste, refinement, and thoughtfulness in its humor than what would typically be thought of as "trash humor".

Also incredibly hypocritical to pick on something like Saints Row in an industry built on serving Americans their daily dose of the old ultraviolence and curb stomps. It really is true that America is f**ked in the head - sex and sexual references are forbidden and shameful, and "immature", while gore and violence have no limits. Shit's even called torture porn at the extreme - clearly, porn is OK once you make it about gore!



If anything, Saints Row seems to be popular in part because it's a reaction to games taking themselves with incredible seriousness and trying too hard to win an oscar. It stands out precisely because it isn't more of the same. Why it's even funnier than CliffyB's advise is to make Saints Row just like every other generic, tryhard cop and gangster clone title.

My god, I love this post so much.

 

[Linkified]

Koch media

Don't be mad someone from Deep Silver on Twitter replied to Jason Rubin saying they'll keep the dream alive...this is a good thing...

 

[Alex]

I 100%'d the game in co-op with my wife, sure it's immature... but that's the point. It's stupid and often completely hilarious for it. Not everything needs a stick up it's ass or to try (and almost always fail, in this medium) to be some legitimate piece of art, the world would be pretty boring like that. Hell, this whole "get more serious! like a _____ movie!" line of thinking is a big piece of why people rabidly turned on GTA4. I personally like GTA4, but it did lose something compared to the goofier days.

I couldn't get into 2, but man 3 really clicked for me, such a fun game, hope 4 comes out alright with the THQ fallout and all.

 

[CorrisD]

I am just concerned about the previous quality of Koch Media products.

That's fair enough, I tried but really couldn't get into Dead Island, but hopefully they won't mess around with them and will let them get on with making games as long as they make money.

 

[TheExodu5]

In some ways I agree, but then again, the gimp chase had me in stitches so I don't want them to remove that kind of absurd scenario.

 

[CambriaRising]

Don't be mad someone from Deep Silver on Twitter replied to Jason Rubin saying they'll keep the dream alive...this is a good thing...

Must have missed that.

Forward Unto dildos Dawn!

 

[Banana Kid]

That's as crazy as it gets though. Cliffy I guess was limited to Twitter's tiny limit but SR's craziness and the problems it causes goes a lot further than that. I mean some of the things that happened in SR3 were

Spoiler

zombies, escaping a sex mansion on a chariot with a sex slave as the "horse", and fighting some guy in a virtual world as a toilet

.

It wasn't funny and more importantly wasn't fun to play.

See, this is where we disagree. I thought all that stuff was fantastic.

If it really just comes down to a question of taste, then there's no resolving it without alienating people. But I don't think they should change a thing.

 

[Patryn]

That's as crazy as it gets though. Cliffy I guess was limited to Twitter's tiny limit but SR's craziness and the problems it causes goes a lot further than that. I mean some of the things that happened in SR3 were

Spoiler

zombies, escaping a sex mansion on a chariot with a sex slave as the "horse", and fighting some guy in a virtual world as a toilet

.

It wasn't funny and more importantly wasn't fun to play.

Ironically, you just listed some of my favorite parts of the game. ESPECIALLY the

Spoiler

toilet

part.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Must have missed that.

Forward Unto dildos Dawn!

https://twitter.com/Chupacaubrey/status/294617923685855235

Spoiler

I still have reservations, but we'll see...

 

[McBradders]

That's as crazy as it gets though. Cliffy I guess was limited to Twitter's tiny limit but SR's craziness and the problems it causes goes a lot further than that. I mean some of the things that happened in SR3 were

Spoiler

zombies, escaping a sex mansion on a chariot with a sex slave as the "horse", and fighting some guy in a virtual world as a toilet

.

It wasn't funny and more importantly wasn't fun to play.

It was and it, more importantly, totally was. Opinions (and yours are ones I usually agree with).

 

[MormaPope]

His recommendations for what Saints Row should be narrative wise are pretty odd. After playing through Saints Row 3 again, the game is pretty much pitch perfect. I was disappointed the first playthrough, but as an alternative to any open world game now it's pretty unique and can hold it's own.

Also I don't know any videogame that would make a wife proud. What would be a prideful game?

 

[Adam Blue]

I need to know where you got that pimp ass controller.

I know, it doesn't say much of my manhood that all I have to say about that picture is about the controller with backlit buttons.

But still, if you please.

Ha...it's the Razer Onza TE. I actually have an unopened one for sale, or for trade for a Microsoft brand 360 pad.

 

[Alienous]

Cliffy's 100% right. The only way Saints Row would beat GTA is to "lose the gimps a dildo's". But, Saint's Row is never concievably going to beat GTA*. They are, as they are, better of satisfying a more niche market. Saints Row could 'grow up' at the risk of loosing some of it's current fanbase, and gaining nobody else.

*Marketing, hype. The investment needed to trumph over GTA, which is possible, is far too great for a franchise like Saints Row.

 

[Eusis]

That's as crazy as it gets though. Cliffy I guess was limited to Twitter's tiny limit but SR's craziness and the problems it causes goes a lot further than that. I mean some of the things that happened in SR3 were

Spoiler

zombies, escaping a sex mansion on a chariot with a sex slave as the "horse", and fighting some guy in a virtual world as a toilet

.

It wasn't funny and more importantly wasn't fun to play.

Admittedly, yeah, I can see why that stuff can be called out on. I think a lot of this (half at least) has to do with his alternatives: he wasn't simply saying go for more classy humor, he was saying to straight up become a serious, likely humorless crime thriller, and most of us are content with going to Rockstar for that, and if someone else should do it it should probably form people with a real desire to make an open world crime saga, not forcing the clowns to perform a drama.

 

[TrutaS]

Yes, make the game exactly like all others and get the same money as them. Seems like the motto of this generation alright...

 

[SmokyDave]

That's as crazy as it gets though. Cliffy I guess was limited to Twitter's tiny limit but SR's craziness and the problems it causes goes a lot further than that. I mean some of the things that happened in SR3 were

Spoiler

zombies, escaping a sex mansion on a chariot with a sex slave as the "horse", and fighting some guy in a virtual world as a toilet

.

It wasn't funny and more importantly wasn't fun to play.

I couldn't disagree more. SR3 is my favourite game of the generation, thanks in no small part to the things that you have mentioned. Especially the chase scene.

 

[Amagon]

That's as crazy as it gets though. Cliffy I guess was limited to Twitter's tiny limit but SR's craziness and the problems it causes goes a lot further than that. I mean some of the things that happened in SR3 were

Spoiler

zombies, escaping a sex mansion on a chariot with a sex slave as the "horse", and fighting some guy in a virtual world as a toilet

.

It wasn't funny and more importantly wasn't fun to play.

Yea, this game was definitely not for you then. Those sequences were a blast to play with

 

[Derrick01]

It was and it more importantly it totally was. Opinions (and yours are ones I usually agree with).

I don't see how the first and last one I listed were fun at all. If anything it's 2 of the more frustrating and lengthy missions in the game.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Not that gta is much better but the silliness of saints row gives me enough pause.

 

[Linkified]

Must have missed that.

Forward Unto dildos Dawn!

https://twitter.com/Chupacaubrey

Third tweet down:

.@Jason_Rubin @THQ @VolitionInc Jason, I promise you that we will keep the dream of the cock alive at Deep Silver

 

[honorless]

This is an issue and by that I mean is that our community can't seem to accept that we can do more with the medium without being blasted of being "try hards". I wish there were more games that tackled serious issues. Doesn't mean that has to come at the expense of games like Saints row. I have yet to play Heavy rain, but I admire what he tries to do. If he failed, does that means that others or himself cannot try to tackle that effort. I say keep trying.

"Tryhard" is a slang term used to describe a labored imitation that is ultimately superficial. Copying something without understanding how it truly works or why people are affected by it.

As opposed to someone who "tries hard"—a genuine effort. Which is what you're talking about.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I feel like, if half the stuff in SR3 was in, say, a Suda51 game, no-one would give a fuck either way.

 

[McBradders]

Admittedly, yeah, I can see why that stuff can be called out on. I think a lot of this (half at least) has to do with his alternatives: he wasn't simply saying go for more classy humor, he was saying to straight up become a serious, likely humorless crime thriller, and most of us are content with going to Rockstar for that, and if someone else should do it it should probably form people with a real desire to make an open world crime saga, not forcing the clowns to perform a drama.

Interestingly; Rockstar have put out exactly 2 humourless crime thrillers so far and only one had the GTA title on it.

The backlash on IV is pretty indicative on how that shit worked out for them, too.

 

[Patryn]

I don't see how the first and last one I listed were fun at all. If anything it's 2 of the more frustrating and lengthy missions in the game.

Have you considered that perhaps the SR series isn't for you? Not everybody will like every game series.

Yes, make the game exactly like all others and get the same money as them. Seems like the motto of this generation alright...

Yes, it's interesting that in the twilight of a generation that many have criticized for lacking originality, that a call for making a semi-original game more generic is being supported to this degree.

 

[witchedwiz]

Fuck that, add more dildos just to make it more ridiculous.

he can't anymore!
backseated lead is backseated!

 

[JWong]

You guys are trying to get him to post, aren't ya?

My take on this is that Saint's Row is a lot more fun than GTA with all the absurdity. It's slightly a different audience, so it's a good thing that it has a lot to set itself apart from GTA.

 

[McBradders]

I don't see how the first and last one I listed were fun at all. If anything it's 2 of the more frustrating and lengthy missions in the game.

The helicopter escort/rail shooter stuff were straight up the only stuff in that game I don't care for.

 

[Plywood]

Spoiler

I'm easily amused.

Cliffy forgets that a game can be anything, they don't have to fall into a strict set of ideas, they don't all have to be made a specific way, it is the collaborative effort of many people under one singular vision which allows a game to be made and if that vision is one with purple dildos, then by god and country it shall be.

Remember your roots Cliffy,

 

[FGMPR]

I don't see how the first and last one I listed were fun at all. If anything it's 2 of the more frustrating and lengthy missions in the game.

That's not what's being discussed here, though. The humor involved clearly disagreed with you, but that's purely subjective. Like a few others have posted, I found those sequences to be hilarious.

 

[scitek]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBaw3ksCcAApAdt.jpg:large[IMG]
Source:
[url]http://twitter.com/Jason_Rubin/status/294617294422831104[/url][/QUOTE]

"@Chupacaubrey

.@Jason_Rubin @THQ @VolitionInc Jason, I promise you that we will keep the dream of the cock alive at Deep Silver."
EDIT: Beaten with a 4 foot purple dildo.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Jazz Jackrabbit would have been such a better game with dildos.

 

[Derrick01]

Have you considered that perhaps the SR series isn't for you? Not everybody will like every game series.

2 was ok but they took a lot out in 3 and went with even more 10 year old boy humor to cover up extremely poor mission design. At least 10 of the missions in the game were just the same boring activities you could do outside of the story, many others were really straightforward as far as design goes (go here murder 100 people) but they use immature humor to hide it.

 

[bigboss370]

Did GTA SA just contain a dildo somewhere in the game or do you swing around a giant dildo as a usable weapon? If it's not the latter then why so many comparisons.

it was a usable weapon.

 

[Killer]

Keep that to yourself cliffy.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

So glad most people seem to disagree with him. While a dildo in a game is not unique to SR3, it's just handled so ridiculously crazy that it lends the game its own circus-esque identity. I don't want it to be like GTA, especially when new GTA is super serious in comparison to the older, funner games - while I do still like new GTA, there is undeniably a "fun void" that SR is trying to fill, and succeeding so far.

It's also quite rich for the man who spearheaded Gears of War to be talking about maturity..

I replied to CliffyB last night on Twitter about this subject. I don't want it to be "another GTA" I want it to be funny, hilarious, stupid. Sure the market campaign might have been a little too "dildo" with its strap it on phrase, but there is no need to actually remove that from the game itself.

http://www.giantbomb.com/dildo/93-833/ < Dildo games. ^_^ Dead Rising: Dildo Edition

Huh, where were the dildos in Deus Ex and Witcher 2?

 

[Plywood]

Jazz Jackrabbit would have been such a better game with dildos.

That gun looks kinda like a dildo.

 

[CambriaRising]

Huh, where were the dildos in Deus Ex and Witcher 2?

They are in the prostitute's room in Flotsam in The Witcher 2. They are made of wood, and have handles.

 

[Hot Coldman]

That gun looks kinda like a dildo.

Surprised you didn't go for the more obvious "rabbit" joke.

edit: wooden dildos don't sound like a good time

 

[Kusagari]

I cringe whenever I read dudes in this industry talking about being embarrassed to have their wives walk in on them.

Get over it. That's more immature than anything in the actual game.

 

[Plywood]

Surprised you didn't go for the more obvious "rabbit" joke.

Gawtddamit

 

[Dabanton]

2 was ok but they took a lot out in 3 and went with even more 10 year old boy humor to cover up extremely poor mission design. At least 10 of the missions in the game were just the same boring activities you could do outside of the story, many others were really straightforward as far as design goes (go here murder 100 people) but they use immature humor to hide it.

I agree and the city was no fun to navigate so it didn't even have that as a fallback for exploration.

 

[Eusis]

I feel like, if half the stuff in SR3 was in, say, a Suda51 game, no-one would give a fuck either way.

Ironically I actually am kind of annoyed at how it seems Suda 51 games became the "crazy funny" games rather than the surreal mindfucks that Killer7 was. I guess it's that I want David Lynch from Suda 51, not Quentin Tarantino.

Interestingly; Rockstar have put out exactly 2 humourless crime thrillers so far and only one had the GTA title on it.

The backlash on IV is pretty indicative on how that shit worked out for them, too.

Yeah, you need someone who can do a really good job with that, GTA didn't exactly do a great job from how far I got into GTAIV, and I certainly don't expect it from Saint's Row unless it's mixed with their humor (the second game may well count as that).