The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
These people are communicating very loudly that they are not particularly interested in any vision of those issues that we would consider "progressive"
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Coal Mining Jobs Trump Would Bring Back No Longer Exist for Humans
- Thread starter Trojita
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Those people used to be Dems before the Dems became the party that supported minority rights.
It's not being provided because the goal of many arenas is to do precisely what your brother doing, be it for humane or economic reasons.
It's a signifier to what's coming, and that's not good to current societal plans and ideals..
The alternative is more of a doubling down on neonationalism. Even the elite realize neoliberal policies that have created great swaths of relative poverty in the first world cannot last.
That said, if you are arguing that America would rather collapse than offer such a program, I might be inclined to agree. There's no other out here. We either become more humane or barbaric, and there's no "middle way" to this.
I mean, automation is a problem, but it's not what's killing coal jobs. Natural gas is killing the coal industry. Coal being a shit source of energy is what's killing jobs.
Automation may make a moderate impact on jobs availible in coal country, but really, it's because that region is stuck with a dying industry.
Automation may make a moderate impact on jobs availible in coal country, but really, it's because that region is stuck with a dying industry.
LizardKing
Member
Dems weren't the party that supported minority rights 4 years ago? Why did we lose so many white working class people who voted for Obama? This transition is still happening and we are still losing them.
Dems weren't the party that supported Minority Rights prior to LBJ.
The exodus of Dixiecrats and the influx of urban/suburban Rs has been a slow process that Trump put gasoline on.
This transition started in the 60's, its nothing new and is a cross generational thing. Things are just much more pronounced and out in the open now.
R10Neymarfan
Member
Racist, selfish, or both. Why hold their hand when they're just gonna bite back at you because you didn't give them what they wanted 100% in full? I rather leave them, they're a minority in this country anyways and they should be thrown in the deep end. The smart ones will swim while the rest sinks. Sounds terrible but at this point, this select group of "hardworking Americans" just aren't worth dragging along with their screaming.
Yes rural America/coal country is in a dire situation, but like how other minority communities are fixing their own shit, they should too. Why should we welfare them when they're gonna take it, turn around and look at other struggling "real" minority groups of folks who work hard everyday and tell them bootstraps? They just sit on their ass waiting for what coal job? Tell them to go to school, the library get some life skills, become versed in a modern age and revitalize their communities. Not just sit on their ass and go. "it's the Blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, and gays" Fuck that I am not dealing with that and neither should the Dems. We should court the real working American class that are doing things but still are struggling.
WSJ article just got brought up again on twitter with a suggestion for this- more College Towns: https://www.wsj.com/articles/theres...ong-economic-malaise-college-towns-1481558522
LizardKing
Member
I'm not talking about Dixiecrats here I'm talking about people who voted for Obama 4 years ago. So you at least you acknowledge there's a problem. Now what are we going to do to fix it? And don't give me we can't because of racist crap because people who have voted for democrats for the last 30 years supporting minority rights are still switching.
It's just that while they have no problem with minority rights it might not be that big of an issue to them and there are other things that are more important which the Republicans are winning on messaging for.
The New Deal coalition imploded over civil rights.
What you should really be asking is why so many people who voted for Kennedy in 1960 turned around and voted for Goldwater in 1964.
Vicetrailia
Member
Rurals who aren't in their 20's do not like:
- higher minimum wage
- free college
- job training
- specific free education programs for workers who lose their job to offshoring or automation.
Hell they didn't like infrastructure until recently with Trump. So Republicans need to sell it or they'll never want it.
- higher minimum wage
- free college
- job training
- specific free education programs for workers who lose their job to offshoring or automation.
Hell they didn't like infrastructure until recently with Trump. So Republicans need to sell it or they'll never want it.
Yes because democrats are supporting minority rights.
LizardKing
Member
Lol. So you think one day after 30 years of supporting minority rights they just woke up and said you know what I think I'll be a racist asshole from now on?
In order to even begin fixing the root problem you have to convince generations of people that working for and earning your living aren't what their lives are for. In many ways this country was built on the backs of the kinds of people who are willing to take jobs working in coal mines, farms or construction with the promise that with little formal education , the sweat off their brow and strong work ethic they could take care of their families regardless of their academic strength.
At the end of the day Collage isn't for everyone, lots of people don't have any genuine interest in spending another 4, 6 or 8 years in school after they finish high school just so they can come out saddled with huge amounts of debt and have little practical experience.
Retraining the population to believe working for the American Dream isn't what they should be doing is going to take someone that doesn't currently exsist in the political clusterfuck we find ourselves in.
At the end of the day Collage isn't for everyone, lots of people don't have any genuine interest in spending another 4, 6 or 8 years in school after they finish high school just so they can come out saddled with huge amounts of debt and have little practical experience.
Retraining the population to believe working for the American Dream isn't what they should be doing is going to take someone that doesn't currently exsist in the political clusterfuck we find ourselves in.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Demi's aren't willing to use racist coded language.
That's what got trump the presidency. Don't forget hat.
They're one and the same.
The makeup of the coalition that voted for Hillary was not the same as the coalition that Obama defeated Romney with. Rural areas got redder. Cities got blue-r. Metropoltan GOPers flipped away from Trump, Rural Dems flipped away from Clinton.
LizardKing
Member
That doesn't even make sense. If you are saying more rural people voted for a black man then voted for Hillary I think you just proved my point.
Seraph_Nicholas
Member
Holy SHIT, the -entire industry- is less than 100K jobs? Time to cut your fucking losses. I wish I could collate every barroom bitch and moan over how shit coal mining was for all of time, and hit these people with it.
No this has been happening for over 30 years. I've said that already. Its just more exacerbated now for a variety of reasons.
A black guy didn't need to make explicit appeals to minority groups in the primary. A white woman did.
Furthermore, the political climate in 2016 was very different than 2008. BLM, Kaepernick, Ferguson, Trayvon Martin- these things were dominating the national conversation in '15/'16 in a way they definitely weren't previously. A subset of white Obama voters had the mindset of "this means racism is over" and proceeded to get real angry when all these folks had the audacity to complain.
LizardKing
Member
Like messaging? Like what Republicans are banging the drum about with economic messages? And relative silence from the Democrats to appeal to these white working-class voters? And in general Republican rhetoric over the last 30 years. That's exactly my point Democrats suck at that. It's pretty hard to say fifty years after the Civil Rights Act of 1965 that people are still switching over because of racism when they've supported minority rights until now.
They didn't support minority rights though. They just didn't care and some even gave that whole,"Racism is dead!" BS reasoning to live in blissful ignorance of what's really going. When people asked them to look around at how things were and give a shit about minorities and women, they grew outraged.
Not sure if it was posted, but Slate posted an article regarding the views from a coal miner that highlights the pure fucking delusional thinking coal miners have, and how you could argue that their ignorance is an existential threat. I felt it was related to the stupidity we see often from coal.
So the jobs will come back and coal is not destructive? Oh boy, talk about people with lost intelligence. Can we blame the fumes?
So the jobs will come back and coal is not destructive? Oh boy, talk about people with lost intelligence. Can we blame the fumes?
LizardKing
Member
So Democrats only started caring about minority rights over the last, what, 10 years? They weren't asked to care before that? Everyone's arguments are really weak here. Isn't it much more likely that Republicans hit on a message that appealed to them but Democrats did not? I find it highly unlikely that people who go their entire lives supporting minority rights or at least not working against them are going to switch parties because they suddenly decide they want to actively work against them.
R10Neymarfan
Member
Not sure if it was posted, but Slate posted an article regarding the views from a coal miner that highlights the pure fucking delusional thinking coal miners have, and how you could argue that their ignorance is an existential threat. I felt it was related to the stupidity we see often from coal.
So the jobs will come back and coal is not destructive? Oh boy, talk about people with lost intelligence. Can we blame the fumes?
They are delusional. I found that their jobs were have been less than 70k and on a decline for over three decades.
I'd actually say yes, Democrats really only started giving a true shit about minority rights in the last ten years, maybe 15. Again they weren't exactly supporting things like gay marriage a decade ago, even Obama didn't at first. They've gotten much better but its been a long time coming, too damn long and they still have VERY far to go.
The Republicans still don't and base a lot of their platform around being shitty to generally just about everyone that isn't a straight white male.
It's more like the hypothetical Obama-Trump voter who isn't at least indifferent to civil rights that you're talking about doesn't really exist, or at least doesn't exist in significant numbers. Support for Democratic Presidential nominees among white voters declined precipitously immediately after 1964 and has been mostly flat since Carter. Obama's share of white voters in 2012 was the worst among Democrats since Mondale.
Shake Appeal
Member
I haven't gone into this in detail before on GAF, I think, and it's probably too big a concept for this thread, but yeah, this is a thing, and one way we don't think about it, and should: slavery. America's entire cultural outlook on work and recompense and desert is based on a "resource curse" of abundant free labor. The country has arguably never recovered from it.
I'm not even talking about the moral cost of slavery, which is reasonably well-documented. But not paying for labor damaged the U.S. understanding of labor maybe irrevocably.
Maybe visual aids would help.
Here's white population density by county:
Here's an animated map looking only at counties that are 90/92/94/96/98% white:
And here again is that Obama/Romney->Clinton/Trump change map:
LizardKing
Member
How old are you? Dems have done quite a lot for minorities for the past 50 years.
You just contradicted yourself.
Yeah they did, they also failed incredibly badly in several areas and still do. As I said they're doing much better but still have serious issues and again, this stuff is nothing new.
neurosisxeno
Member
I mean, 1 party wants to help minority populations but it could be said focusing so heavily on such just lost them the Presidency, the Senate, and the House. The other party has all 3, and is vehemently against civil rights legislation, and has been actively combating it since the 1980's.
They're both true.
The range is from 34 (Mondale) to 48 (Carter). The mean is around 41. Obama 2012 was 39. He did not reshape opinions in the white electorate surrounding civil rights. Even in his 2008 landslide he only won 43% of the white vote. Clinton won 37% in 2016.
The big shift among white voters your argument presupposes didn't actually happen.
yanipheonu
Member
The wars of the future will not be fought on a battlefield or at sea.
They will be fought in space.
Or possibly on top of a very tall mountain.
In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots.
And as you go forth today, remember always your duty is clear- To build and maintain those robots.
Thank you.
https://youtu.be/lj1MCjeFxrM
They will be fought in space.
Or possibly on top of a very tall mountain.
In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots.
And as you go forth today, remember always your duty is clear- To build and maintain those robots.
Thank you.
https://youtu.be/lj1MCjeFxrM
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