Vermillion
Banned
Essentially this.
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Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy
- Thread starter soultron
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Essentially this.
Both of the ones I've been on dates with actually looked BETTER in person. The second one even said herself she's not very photogenic, and I was definitely concerned about her looks before I got to meet her in person, but it all worked out in the end. Although I can see where you're coming from though, I've heard plenty of horror stories of them using MySpace angles or headshots only.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Again, I have no idea where I heard this, but as an example, if I remember correctly, the reason Mountain Dew was marketed as an energy drink when it came back to the UK was because it had too much sugar and caffeine in it. Which for whatever reason, stops them selling it as a regular soft drink.
Edit: could be a load of bollocks.
D
Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
You are definitely the minority in experiencing that.
Now wait, let's look at the bold. Do looks not go both ways? What if she was as bad as you thought, or worse, but she was really "confident" and had a good personality?
See, whether we want to admit it or not, we are all "shallow," with varying levels obviously. We all want to fuck, date, and/or marry someone we find attractive. We all want someone who looks good.
Atramental
Banned
My clothing is pretty standard.
When it's cool out I wear jeans, a hoodie, and a t-shirt.
When it's warm I just wear khaki shorts, a t-shirt, or a polo shirt.
And my t-shirts usually have large designs or illustrations on them.
Like this one:
I feel so hardcore when I wear this shirt.
Honestly, I'd still give it a chance if we really clicked otherwise. I would honestly she was decent looking but not great, but I really like her still. It won't necessarily completely kill it for me.
But it is different for women. If a big fat guy approaches a woman, she will likely be a little afraid of him at first. If he doesn't screw up and presents himself well, she may become attracted to him. It depends on how confident he is, women can literally sense that. If he is confident enough, weight won't matter.
Well, you're a good person. I'm just saying most people don't see it that way. If someone doesn't meet the snuff, looks wise, then most other things won't matter in a romantic relationship.
Vermillion
Banned
It's quite difficult without the looks.
Conversely, if this person were beautiful, it'd be that much easier to form a connection.
Have you been reading a self empowering book?
If not try, the book "You have infinite power"
Good read.
Hey guy, you went from excuses to now blaming others.
Atramental
Banned
Just give me some time to workout and you'll get your results from me.
Right now I'm just happy that my mind is no longer filled with so much negativity and hopelessness. That is a triumph in and of itself.
I haven't read it but I'll be sure to check it out.
My clothing is pretty standard.
When it's cool out I wear jeans, a hoodie, and a t-shirt.
When it's warm I just wear khaki shorts, a t-shirt, or a polo shirt.
And my t-shirts usually have large designs or illustrations on them.
Like this one:
I feel so hardcore when I wear this shirt.
Is it a bad thing if you always wear shorts? I do it not because I like the cold, but because it's just what I like/feel most comfortable in.
Atramental
Banned
Nah, that's fine.
The only thing I wouldn't do is where a long sleeved shirt or hoodie (without it's sleeves rolled up) while you're wearing shorts because it looks kind of weird.
I guess it's a "balance" thing. Gotta make your top half match your bottom half.
Nah, that's fine.
The only thing I wouldn't do is where a long sleeved shirt or hoodie (without it's sleeves rolled up) while you're wearing shorts because it looks kind of weird.
I guess it's "balance" thing. Gotta make your top half match your bottom half.
But that's exactly what I do.
Does that mean I'm screwed?
Atramental
Banned
I wouldn't say that you're screwed or not screwed. It's just not my personal preference because I don't feel comfortable wearing my clothes that way.
Oh, my bad. I misread that.
Vermillion
Banned
Oh, I'm not ugly; I know that. I'm saying that looks matter, especially relatively.
Though to be fair, that may be insanity for me. I know of a couple guys who've called me ugly. One of whom is a "friend." I told him I'm not, and he's all "how do you know"? How do I know? I like to think I'm not... He thinks I'm better without my glasses, though. Ah, and he does hold the virgin thing against me. Then there was a random dude... this was when I was drunk, I was talking to a girl I knew, and he was like "you're too ugly to have her." Maybe it was because my eyes were red... who knows. Finally, another guy whom I used to try to help with his image issues... he used to say that I looked better than him. We eventually got into an argument, and in his "behind my back" tirade, he said I was ugly.
Don't know what to think. Though, if I'm dressed up, I can talk to girls easier, and sometimes (once in memory) they approach me. Who knows.
Vermillion
Banned
Also, girls do care about looks. I'm 18, dammit.
shanshan310
Member
Maybe, but personality is more important. Some of the guys I've been attracted to in the past have not been lookers at all. A shitty personality ruins a perfect face. Its why "the friendzone" is crap. When you get to know someone, you find attractive characteristics in them. There doesn't need to be an initial attraction for it to work. EDIT: I'm around your age too, so its not as if girls your age don't think this way.
That's absolute crap. In my case, yes, I was attracted to my SO when I first met him. But in the past there have been people I was attracted to/ dated that I didn't find attractive initially at all. I got to know them as friends and became attracted to them because of their personality.
Jzero
Member
Girls care more about how much money you have than how you look so you should be worrying about making that money.
shanshan310
Member
I don't give a shit about money.
You have a belief. You see evidence that confirm this belief. You do not even notice the evidence that contradict you because of the wonderful confirmation bias. If you change this belief to something else, over time you WILL start to see those contradictions that now confirm your new belief. Believe me, this is true. Personally, I used to think I was really ugly and I still do subconsciously to some degree (which explains why my transformation is going at the speed it is). I never ever noticed women checking me out because I was dead certain no one ever did. These days I "know" I'm hot and interesting and while clubbing, I always notice how girls circle me and check me out. This is obviously confirming my new belief on a regular basis. I see new evidence that have a positive instead of negative effect on me even though this evidence was always present in my life. So when you're stuck in a negative spiral, you ignore the evidence that challenge your status quo. But it also works both ways. It doesn't matter that it is a delusion at first because it will become your new reality when you want it to be.
Vermillion
Banned
I don't think I'm ugly, not attractive either, though. I don't trust guys's judgments on looks. They're usually wrong. Unless they're me. I can tell, but I'm comfortable with my sexuality.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was.
I figured that if I said it enough, I would convince the world that I really was the greatest.
It's the repetition of affirmations that leads to belief. And once that belief becomes a deep conviction, things begin to happen.
-Muhammad Ali
I figured that if I said it enough, I would convince the world that I really was the greatest.
It's the repetition of affirmations that leads to belief. And once that belief becomes a deep conviction, things begin to happen.
-Muhammad Ali
Atramental
Banned
"Man is made or unmade by himself; in the armory of thought he forges the weapons by which he destroys himself. He also fashions the tools with which he builds for himself heavenly mansions of joy and strength and peace. By the right choice and true application of thought, man ascends to the Divine Perfection; by the abuse and wrong application of thought, he descends below the level of the beast. Between these two extremes are all the grades of character, and man is their maker and master."
-James Allen
-James Allen
"There's an old joke - um... two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions." Well, that's essentially how I feel about life - full of loneliness, and misery, and suffering, and unhappiness, and it's all over much too quickly. The... the other important joke, for me, is one that's usually attributed to Groucho Marx; but, I think it appears originally in Freud's "Wit and Its Relation to the Unconscious," and it goes like this - I'm paraphrasing - um, "I would never want to belong to any club that would have someone like me for a member." That's the key joke of my adult life, in terms of my relationships with women."
- Woody Allen (Annie Hall)
- Woody Allen (Annie Hall)
Etrian Oddity
Member
While the majority of girls in JokerOfSpades' age range do care about looks more than any other age range, that's not to say they're the total deal-breaker.
Your personality and aura is so important, man. I've read the past couple of the pages and you need. to. change. your. attitude. Just relax. Stop caring about what everyone else thinks, or what pressures you think society puts on you. Listen to me, because I used to be in your situation. Stop caring that you aren't Adonis, and start caring about what you're lucky to have. Health, safety, a sharp mind, good grades, etc.
Just relax. I'm no player and I know for a fact I have less success with girls than some of this thread's contributors, but I always find a way to bounce back whenever I feel down. A huge part of that is my self-worth.
Self-worth (aka self-esteem) and confidence are two separate but important things. My confidence wavers from time to time, but my self-esteem never takes a hit because I love who I am and what I have. In other words, my self-worth and confidence are not an algebraic function of one another, haha.
Your problem is your self-projection--whether you believe us or not, we're right--is tainted by your lack of self-esteem. When you fix that, you may not have perfect 10s asking you out, but you will find more success with interactions with girls, particularly in flirting. Even if nothing comes of it, flirting is a major part of a guy gaining confidence.
You're right that looks are more important in your age range; but I have ugly, out of shape, or other such friends who lack "looks" and pull way more girls than me. It's about presentation. Dress well, be clean, smell nice, and have self-esteem, and that will make up for not being naturally "hot."
Girls don't care about assholes, they care about confidence. It's just that assholes are more blunt about confidence; nothing more to it than that. There are times when I get bitter at the world and the fact that several girls have taken advantage of my being a gentleman and made me look like an idiot; but that's life. I can't blame all girls on Earth for a string of females having done me wrong. Wouldn't you know it, when I bounce back from these bad encounters, it isn't because I treat women badly or act like a douche; it's normally because a girl will become curious or disarmed because of my humor, respectability, and laid-back nature. If it goes wrong, I have to face the hard truth that it's more or likely because I messed up and didn't follow-up properly on my end (maybe I wasn't aggressive enough, maybe she found out we weren't compatible, or maybe she just wanted something platonic). Again, that's life. I'll rebound.
Just a few pages ago I was moping and wallowing in my sorrow, because I was impatient about a girl who flaked twice on me. It turned out those two flakes were for very valid reasons, and said girl has not only told me she feels terrible for flaking and was scared I thought she'd do it again, but she's the one who's been doing most of the pursuing since the start. Have I finally found a girl who likes me? Only time will tell. But even if we end up not getting together or doing anything, I can't take it as a personal failure because, for the last time, that's life. I can objectively look at this and I know that even though I'll probably be sad if nothing comes of this, my self-esteem will eventually mend my confidence and I'll be back at it again.
PS: find new friends, because fuck your "friend" who's been telling you those things.
Your personality and aura is so important, man. I've read the past couple of the pages and you need. to. change. your. attitude. Just relax. Stop caring about what everyone else thinks, or what pressures you think society puts on you. Listen to me, because I used to be in your situation. Stop caring that you aren't Adonis, and start caring about what you're lucky to have. Health, safety, a sharp mind, good grades, etc.
Just relax. I'm no player and I know for a fact I have less success with girls than some of this thread's contributors, but I always find a way to bounce back whenever I feel down. A huge part of that is my self-worth.
Self-worth (aka self-esteem) and confidence are two separate but important things. My confidence wavers from time to time, but my self-esteem never takes a hit because I love who I am and what I have. In other words, my self-worth and confidence are not an algebraic function of one another, haha.
Your problem is your self-projection--whether you believe us or not, we're right--is tainted by your lack of self-esteem. When you fix that, you may not have perfect 10s asking you out, but you will find more success with interactions with girls, particularly in flirting. Even if nothing comes of it, flirting is a major part of a guy gaining confidence.
You're right that looks are more important in your age range; but I have ugly, out of shape, or other such friends who lack "looks" and pull way more girls than me. It's about presentation. Dress well, be clean, smell nice, and have self-esteem, and that will make up for not being naturally "hot."
Girls don't care about assholes, they care about confidence. It's just that assholes are more blunt about confidence; nothing more to it than that. There are times when I get bitter at the world and the fact that several girls have taken advantage of my being a gentleman and made me look like an idiot; but that's life. I can't blame all girls on Earth for a string of females having done me wrong. Wouldn't you know it, when I bounce back from these bad encounters, it isn't because I treat women badly or act like a douche; it's normally because a girl will become curious or disarmed because of my humor, respectability, and laid-back nature. If it goes wrong, I have to face the hard truth that it's more or likely because I messed up and didn't follow-up properly on my end (maybe I wasn't aggressive enough, maybe she found out we weren't compatible, or maybe she just wanted something platonic). Again, that's life. I'll rebound.
Just a few pages ago I was moping and wallowing in my sorrow, because I was impatient about a girl who flaked twice on me. It turned out those two flakes were for very valid reasons, and said girl has not only told me she feels terrible for flaking and was scared I thought she'd do it again, but she's the one who's been doing most of the pursuing since the start. Have I finally found a girl who likes me? Only time will tell. But even if we end up not getting together or doing anything, I can't take it as a personal failure because, for the last time, that's life. I can objectively look at this and I know that even though I'll probably be sad if nothing comes of this, my self-esteem will eventually mend my confidence and I'll be back at it again.
PS: find new friends, because fuck your "friend" who's been telling you those things.
Vermillion
Banned
Bwaha. My best female friend told me I need new friends. This is more difficult than I thought. I need to join a new club or something. For now I shall exercise and work on the gap in my teeth...
Oh, and thanks guys.
Oh, and thanks guys.
grap3fruitman
Banned
Telling someone that the only thing they're good at is failing doesn't seem depressing to you?
Also, I just asked because a lot of people seem to feel that it's an usual thing to do (i.e. wear shorts in the winter), and I'm afraid women might find "weirdness" of this sort to be a deal breaker. I just do it because that's what I do. I know it sounds stupid, but it's kinda something I don't want to change.
Atramental
Banned
It's not that weird because I know a couple of people who wear shorts all the time as well.
I ask them about it and they tell me, "My legs never get cold."
So yeah. Don't worry about it and do what's right for you.
edit: sorry if my grammar has been kinda odd.
I'm really tired.
So wait, let me get this completely straight.
The majority of Date-Gaf believe that simply "feeling more posive" or changing your "aura" will help you out with meeting, dating, etc.? That's what you all believe?
What if the person already has a good personality. Meaning they're amicable, friendly, can hold up a good conversation and are funny, but deep down they feel they're not going to be succesful with women; are they still doomed for failure then? You all are basically saying that even if nothing else changes, besides your inner emotions, unbeknownst to anyone but yourself?
Why would that affect anything? If you're going to be saying the same stuff, and you're acting friendly either way, what difference does this make?
The majority of Date-Gaf believe that simply "feeling more posive" or changing your "aura" will help you out with meeting, dating, etc.? That's what you all believe?
What if the person already has a good personality. Meaning they're amicable, friendly, can hold up a good conversation and are funny, but deep down they feel they're not going to be succesful with women; are they still doomed for failure then? You all are basically saying that even if nothing else changes, besides your inner emotions, unbeknownst to anyone but yourself?
Why would that affect anything? If you're going to be saying the same stuff, and you're acting friendly either way, what difference does this make?
I see it as whatever is on the inside is what you project to others. By getting rid of all of the psychological baggage you may have and learning to love who you are and improving yourself, you start showing other people that you're fun to be around and what not. The doubts you have about it are fine, but you should give it a try and experiment with it, I don't think anybody in this topic will intentionally give you advice that hasn't worked for them.
Also in regards to the bold, a lot of the time it's how you do things. You can say nice smile to a girl in a low, passive voice or you can say nice smile, look her in the eyes and smile back. Just an example though.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
No, cause if that were true, I wouldn't be a single virgin with repressive rage issues and a fragile grip on reality.
Actually, I think what the gist is that you have to start with yourself first, build up your confidence and remove all the negative blocks like the fact that deep down you think you're unworthy shit or doomed for failure. These blocks are a huge problem. But it's only part of the solution. There's motivation, the removal of these blocks, and action. Without taking action, I can feel as great as I want, but I'm still alone in the end, trying to desperately tell myself that I'm great and awesome.
Some of the people that seem to come here come with these deep-seated issues of "I can't because of X excuse" or "I'm ugly why would women like me" or stuff to that effect. It's stuff like needs to be dealt with first, otherwise it just festers no matter what you try.
In this situation, let's just say that the person already does that. They do all the right things, say everything the right way, but they're unattractive and they know it. I just don't know how some internal attitude change is going to do if they are already completely nice, and they are doing the right things, so to speak.
I see what you're saying, but I just don't see what's wrong if someone realizes they're ugly or unattractive if it's true.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Well, I imagine in that case they have to compensate with other aspects of their personality/life. You can be unattractive but still be an awesome person or have a positive world view.
I am definitely not a handsome man, but I try my best to retain a positive worldview and stay awesome. It takes confidence and persistence along with other positive traits.
I'm still struggling with my own confidence issues, but I do believe that the first step is to fix your own issues and deficiencies. You don't want them to rear their ugly head later on and torpedo you.
I think that inner attitude allows you to make better improvements to your life. How can an attitude that says "I'm ugly" and that's that help? What if the person says "I may be ugly, but I can improve this". It's more than just getting girls, it's about realigning the perspective of yourself to make you happier as a person. In other terms its about loving yourself and being comfortable in who you are, but enacting the change necessary to become a better you. I think the point in this situation is that you don't have to beat yourself down.
Atramental
Banned
W. Mitchell - What You Focus On
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf_YcUtqsEs
I want you to watch this video, Iznick.
edit: and any others that are related to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdQ61ASj0mY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7LsdgRnarw&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf_YcUtqsEs
I want you to watch this video, Iznick.
edit: and any others that are related to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdQ61ASj0mY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7LsdgRnarw&feature=relmfu
I would be a heartless bastard to say that video isn't inspiring, obviously.
I'm just saying that I think that even if you tell someone they should "accept their-self" or "find perspective and become happier" it's definitely easier saying then doing for some people. The reason I brought this up here is because it was the dating specific thread. I'm sure people could become happy with themselves in other ways, but when it comes down to meeting people for romantic reasons, I think that a lot of people here don't understand that it's harder to just accept something that's contrary to what they believe to be true.
If they are unatractive, they know that if they're trying to go after someone that is attractive, in the back of their mind they know they don't have a shot if someone else that is attractive is interested.
Honestly, unattractiveness only really gets in the way when you're morbidly obese (even then this is a stretch), you have birth deformities or you're some sort of burn victim. People say that they're unattractive but people find a way to like each other regardless of looks. I think it's unfair to say that you've already lost because you're "unattractive"
You honestly believe that? If someone who was say a 5, wanted to engage in a romantic relationship with someone who was like an 8 or 9, you think there's really no problem there? You make it sound like it's simply a stumbling block.
Like I said in my previous post, what's stopping them from finding an equally interesting person that they also find physically attractive as well?
shanshan310
Member
If you like someone, why would you go looking for someone else?
Like I said before, personality is much more important to me than looks. My boyfriend is my best friend. I am attracted to him because we have so much in common, and if you talk to him he's a pretty cool guy. In terms of attractiveness we are probably on the same level, not that it matters. Though continually aiming above you is only going to reduce the chances you meet someone that you click with (by discarding people based on them not being "an 8 or a 9" - which, by the way, is doing the very same thing you are complaining that girls do). Guys I've been attracted to in the past have not been physically attractive at all. In fact, only after several months of being friends did I find myself attracted to them because I'd gotten to know them.
Ideally the person best suited for you is someone with similar interests, background and social group. If you go hit on a model and get turned down it possible its because of a difference in these things. If you looked the same, but we're in the same industry, hung out with the same types of people, I think you would have a far better chance. Likewise, if she were a university student with the same major as you instead of modelling (or whatever) you'd have a better chance of a successful relationship.
No, no, no you misunderstand! I do think girls want someone with good looks, that are attractive, but I think men do as well. I don't really think "shallow" is a useful term, because we're all shallow on some level. We want someone who looks good. I don't think women do it more then men, or vice-versa.
The looks draw you in and then you see if you connect emotionally and intellectually down the line.
I don't know. You think that them being in a different social circle is the major factor there, instead of it being the look difference?
shanshan310
Member
Yeah, I think it can be a factor. Think about it. Couples tend to meet at social gatherings of some sort (though not always). Some of my friends met through Japanese club, some of them met at parties with mutual friends, some of them met at clubs, some of them met at church. People with similar interests tend to congregate together. You wouldn't be friends with someone you had nothing in common with. Why would it be different with a girlfriend?
Everyone likes to be surrounded by pretty things, of course.
My point is that its not always looks then personality. Sometimes its the personality that draws you in, and you find yourself attracted to them because of it.
Everyone likes to be surrounded by pretty things, of course.
My point is that its not always looks then personality. Sometimes its the personality that draws you in, and you find yourself attracted to them because of it.
Of course, I'm just saying your going to have many roadblocks and disappointed if you like someone that's much more attractive. You click with them, but you realize that it's not going to happen. It's just being realistic.
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