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[Jest Chillin]

Wy should Destiny 2 play exactly like Destiny 1? Isn't identical gameplay with new content more akin to an expansion? I'd be disappointed if Civilization 6 was just Civilization 5 with 20 new Civs, for example.

That's like asking Persona 5 not to play like Persona 4. Or Street Fighter 5 not to play like Street Fighter 4. Or Battlefield whatever not to play like the previous Battlefield.

There are additional elements. Tweaks to small things. QoL changes. But the genre is still the same genre. Destiny isn't going to change genre's. There was backlash in the community when it was announced that progress wasn't going to carry over from Destiny 1 and yet you want them to fundamentally change the gameplay? When their immesnely popular and highly played hit game's community was upset that gear and emotes wouldn't be coming along?

Does that seem reasonable?

 

[jviggy43]

I get that and I don't think Bungie is above reproach or anything.

I do agree I want to see some better boss designs. I still want new playable races and all sorts of stuff. I don't have any issue at all with people having some complaints.

The things that I'm just getting sick of seeing are the tons of posts talking about everything being the exact same or lists of changes they want that basically mean making Destiny 2 something massively different than Destiny 1.

Destiny 2 feels like a sequel. However it feels like a very safe sequel and if people don't feel like Bungie is being innovative enough, I get that and I don't think that's a wrong or bad opinion to have.

who in here asked for destiny to be completely different, just wondering for referrence.

 

[Two Words]

That's like asking Persona 5 not to play like Persona 4. Or Street Fighter 5 not to play like Street Fighter 4. Or Battlefield whatever not to play like the previous Battlefield.

There are additional elements. Tweaks to small things. QoL changes. But the genre is still the same genre. Destiny isn't going to change genre's. There was backlash in the community when it was announced that progress wasn't going to carry over from Destiny 1 and yet you want them to fundamentally change the gameplay? When their immesnely popular and highly played hit game's community was upset that gear and emotes wouldn't be coming along?

Does that seem reasonable?

I don't get it. Are bullet sponge bosses a fundamental part of Destiny's gameplay? Like, is it the desired encounters that Destiny fans love? Do they not want better bosses?

 

[Obliterator]

Everything from the size of playspaces, the amount of enemies they could spawn per encounter, the complexity of encounters, the ability to enable activities without having to go back into orbit, town/outpopsts in explorable playspaces with quest givers, are all improvements that are brought on by the engine shredding off last-gen..

This is exaclty right here is the biggest missed opportunity of the reveal and the things that could have made the biggest splash.

They played things very safe and straight and showed a campaign mission, a strike and PvP. I get that, its the stuff we are familiar with, but I think the biggest focus of the presentation should have been demoing how different the zones / explorable spaces are and how much more there it to do in them now. Instead it was bullet pointed but not really a focus.

I think having the focus be around that, would have entirely changed reception to a large degree

 

[Siege.exe]

So um... Anyone know if trip mines stick again? Please say yes

 

[GreyWind]

What engine is this using? Looks wise its very dated but the lighting obviously reminds me of halos.

In-house engine called Tiger. Heavily modified, took a lot from the og engine used for the Halo titles.

 

[Twilight Gap]

I get that and I don't think Bungie is above reproach or anything.

I do agree I want to see some better boss designs. I still want new playable races and all sorts of stuff. I don't have any issue at all with people having some complaints.

The things that I'm just getting sick of seeing are the tons of posts talking about everything being the exact same or lists of changes they want that basically mean making Destiny 2 something massively different than Destiny 1.

Destiny 2 feels like a sequel. However it feels like a very safe sequel and if people don't feel like Bungie is being innovative enough, I get that and I don't think that's a wrong or bad opinion to have.

I don't see any reason for Bungie to throw out what people loved about Destiny 1 and start over with Destiny 2. Like the comment that refers to the game's mission structure; I don't see why Bungie would completely overhaul the quest, story mission and strike structure when it proved to sustain players for a long time. Again, they "rebooted" Halo so many times and all it did was lead to a splintered and bitter fanbase. As an artist, I understand being unhappy with what you've created and wanting to start over to chase your original vision, but there is a certain point where you have to embrace your fanbase and I think Bungie made the decision to do just that with Destiny 2. Safe is fine.

My issues with what was revealed today fall into one of a few categories:

1. Changes that appear to change what I liked about Destiny 1 (at launch) like the PvP stuff. Most of it looks good in footage but there is some concerning stuff.
2. Changes that don't appear to be changes at all (like the Strike boss)
3. Changes that weren't shown (AI behavior, multiple players in an instance, loot systems, enemies, customization etc.)

Everything else I've seen looks great and I'm looking forward to seeing more before and after the beta. It'd be daft to form an opinion prematurely without having sunk a few dozen hours into the game.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Why the fuck shouldn't it????

Again, this is a sequel. You guys expecting them to come up with something totally different than the first are bonkers.

I was hoping that it was going to be a change like Assassins Creed to Assassins Creed 2. A game that was well made and I saw to potential to a game that was actually good. I saw none of that here. I saw the treadmill. Again.

I think I'll buy this game. But in 2 years when they actually finish it.

 

[Obliterator]

who in here asked for destiny to be completely different, just wondering for referrence.

Not a whole lot of people. The bigger issue I have is around the constant references to it "being the exact same"

There is mountains, and mountains of that you can wade through if you wish.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I don't get it. Are bullet sponge bosses a fundamental part of Destiny's gameplay? Like, is it the desired encounters that Destiny fans love? Do they not want better bosses?

"Bullet sponge bosses," or rather, Bosses with Health Bars are a core design aspect that Bungie took inspiration from RPG's on. Yes they are a fundamental part of the gameplay. Just as weapons and gear having ascending statistics rather than flat damage amounts is a fundamental part of the gameplay. If you don't see that, then there's no wonder you're confused.

If you remove health bars, then player level and gear with ascending stats makes no sense. If you remove player level and gear with ascending stats then you have a bog standard shooter. Destiny was not designed to be a bog standard shooter. It was always designed to be something different than that.

 

[ocean]

I think people have different ideas of how different a sequel ought to be from their predecessors. What they've done here is grab a solid popular formula which got a ton of complaints, made all-new content and tried designing around those complaints.

The big one: content. That word will never not remind me of Destiny because that's all people would say. Not enough content. Hell it wasn't even a lie. Game shipped with 6 Strikes; 5 on Xbox. The campaign was short and absurdly incoherent. Patrols were empty. There was nothing more to do. We later got Court of Oryx, Archon's Forge, Prison/Challenge of Elders, Sparrow Racing, Trials, Seasonal events with neat cosmetic gear, Strike scoring... even an announcer in PvP. But the game launched in a miserably paltry state. With the amount of shit they've come up with since then, I doubt we'll get so sparce a Director this time around. Planets are allegedly twice as big and chock full of stuff to do and side quests will keep us busier than we were 3 years ago.

Patrol areas were horribly underwhelming in D1. No point in exploring them other than the Dreadnaught, no NPCs at all to interact with. Now we get treasure hunts, NPCs offering side quests, public events marked on our map, undiscovered areas to explore and stuff. So that's one major complaint they're tackling.

Another major gripe was matchmaking for endgame activities. They managed to solve the "in new and want to try this Raid" and the "shit Bob dropped out and we need a 6th" issues in one fell sweep. Expect issues with the implementation - bad experiences due to trolling AFKers and what not, but that's always gonna be a thing in online games. This is another major complaint being tackled.

Perhaps the other major valid criticism was Destiny's story being absolutely absent. Not even ass, just nonexistent. Expansions took baby steps towards making that better but this time we're set up for an actual campaign where we know what the fuck we're doing, who with and what for. There was even a Lore prompt in the menu, suggesting Grimoire is in-game now - another famous request. Assuming the story is coherent and decently long, that'll be the other main fuckup they've unfucked with the sequel.

And then there was the loot debacle. Some people wanted Diablo or Borderlands, and were pissed to find a shady, stingy slot machine instead. That's largely been addressed in expansions and updates and I'm sure won't be as big an issue anymore. If anything the pendulum swung too far - the narrative went from "I can't get shit" to "getting stuff isn't satisfying because it drops like candy". At any rate, the days of "I've had a single Legendary engrams drop in two weeks and it decrypted into blue" are long gone and I don't expect loot to be a majorly controversial point this time around.

Those are the big design gripes the original faced which have been or will be solved or at least seem to be significantly improved upon.

Then come what are, granted, still valid gripes but which aren't as big in comparison. Stuff like vehicles being disappointing, Strikes being too few and too reliant on bullet sponge bosses, no BTB or ranked/social playlists... I want these things fixed too.

So there's some good stuff and what feel like some missed opportunities. Conversations revolving these missed opportunities make perfect sense. But saying it doesn't feel like a sequel? I mean it's the same universe and in the absolute broadest sense it looks the same. But when a game gets a direct sequel on the same console generation, I don't understand what type of leaps you expect to say "ok that's a sequel not an exoansion". It'd be like saying Uncharted 3 could have been an Uncharted 2 expansion.

This is looking to be not only a much more polished and QoL-riddled version of Destiny, but also a massive content drop which will almost certainly eclipse the original in terms of volume of new activities, geometry, loot, story progression and what have you. Sure it's broadly the same formula - but that's the reason it's a sequel and not a new IP.

What exactly would make this "a true sequel" and not an expansion type of release for those who feel that way?

 

[Twilight Gap]

So um... Anyone know if trip mines stick again? Please say yes

One of the players stuck the strike boss with a tripine.

 

[brianjones]

I don't get it. Are bullet sponge bosses a fundamental part of Destiny's gameplay? Like, is it the desired encounters that Destiny fans love? Do they not want better bosses?

well shooting is a fundamental part of the game and bosses would require more shooting than normal enemies so yeah it's kind of inevitable

not really sure how they could get around that

raid mechanics might be what you're looking for

that's why people said you don't want matchmaking for raids because of the complex coordination involved

can't make strike bosses too complicated for randos

 

[jviggy43]

Not a whole lot of people. The bigger issue I have is around the constant references to it "being the exact same"

There is mountains, and mountains of that you can wade through if you wish.

hyperbole aside, it looks very similar and I assume thats what they mean rather than literally its the same thing.

"Bullet sponge bosses," or rather, Bosses with Health Bars are a core design aspect that Bungie took inspiration from RPG's on. Yes they are a fundamental part of the gameplay. Just as weapons and gear having ascending statistics rather than flat damage amounts is a fundamental part of the gameplay. If you don't see that, then there's no wonder you're confused.

If you remove health bars, then player level and gear with ascending stats makes no sense. If you remove player level and gear with ascending stats then you have a bog standard shooter. Destiny was not designed to be a bog standard shooter. It was always designed to be something different than that.

You can design bosses without massive healthbars that also take into account gear and stats, and also make them fun to fight. I cannot believe someone is arguing for bullet sponge bosses.

 

[Two Words]

"Bullet sponge bosses," or rather, Bosses with Health Bars are a core design aspect that Bungie took inspiration from RPG's on. Yes they are a fundamental part of the gameplay. Just as weapons and gear having ascending statistics rather than flat damage amounts is a fundamental part of the gameplay. If you don't see that, then there's no wonder you're confused.

If you remove health bars, then player level and gear with ascending stats makes no sense. If you remove player level and gear with ascending stats then you have a bog standard shooter. Destiny was not designed to be a bog standard shooter. It was always designed to be something different than that.

A bullet sponge boss isn't just a boss with a lot of health. It's a boss that by its design does very little but get shot up a lot by you as you dodge its slow and extremely telegraphed attacks. You're free to defend these bosses as "The way Destiny was meant to be played". But I think it is clearly obvious to everybody else that the bosses are designed this way because it is difficult to make better bosses, not that this was the most-desired goal.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

The gameplay, visuals, music, and audio sound and look incredibly pleasing.

I'm stoked.

 

[Nerokis]

What people keep pointing out is "check out all these new zones and strikes and stuff" it's just more of the same content.

more of the same stuff that already exists isnt the same as something new and doesnt really serve to justify the positioning as a sequel. There is practically nothing new.
I guess this will satisfy people who want the exact same destiny you already had but more of it.

Well, here's the thing: as much ambiguous, greener on the other side-esque sentiment as there has been surrounding the prospect of Destiny 2, the truth is that there is a lot of great stuff in the original, and a massive overhaul would have risked losing some of that. It makes sense that the sequel builds on it, as opposed to breaking away from it in some dramatic way.

Also, the positioning as a sequel might be required, because it isn't an expansion. In fact, as far as I can tell, a lot of stuff is actually going away - as an example, your Destiny 1 characters. It might also be justified if they've taken this as an opportunity to get rid of some baggage, rebuild a few things here and there, and make another attempt at a fully realized, coherent campaign. Plus, there's the whole "story moving forward" thing.

I can understand some of the disappointment at the reveal, but an iterative approach makes sense here. The ambition is probably to deliver on Destiny 1's potential, and not to rewrite the formula. Since we're talking about a MMOish game here, let me use this analogy: Destiny 2 does to Destiny 1 (hopefully) what WoW's character model redesigns did to the original character models, as opposed to going all EverQuest 2.

 

[Siege.exe]

One of the players stuck the strike boss with a tripine.

I'm having trouble putting into words how happy that makes me

 

[acm2000]

In-house engine called Tiger. Heavily modified, took a lot from the og engine used for the Halo titles.

Well that explains it 😛 lighting model is pure halo and graphics have a very dated halo look which does make you wonder why they didn't try go for 60fps

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

Is there any footage besides the story mission of people using the lmg/miniguns?

 

[FallingSputnik]

Sounds like exactly the stuff I wanted changed about PVP. Can't wait to try it out.

I feel the same way, the unbalanced grenade and melee bullshit was so annoying, couldn't really take pvp seriously from a competitive standpoint.

 

[Kadey]

Tunnel vision. If people aren't interested to begin with they will come up with whatever excuse to tell themselves and others why they aren't interested. Some times things just don't have your interest but you don't know why and so you have to come up with something.

It's like me with Injustice 2. Looks great, runs great, tons of content, I like some DC characters, game play is pretty good but I don't care. Mean while Marvel looks like it runs on a 2014 cell phone, will probably have little to no content but it has my interest more.

If you don't like something for whatever reason just say it doesn't interest you, no need to be like, OMG it looks the same, it doesn't have this or that. Bowlshat, your ass was never going to get it anyway.

 

[squidyj]

.... Any sequel to any game is more of the same stuff by those standards. Every sports game. Every FPS. Every RPG. Every Hack and Slash action game. Doubly so for sequels.

Your assertion doesn't hold water.

Diablo -> Diablo 2
Witcher -> Witcher 2 -> Witcher 3
Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask
Bioshock Infinite
Mass Effect -> Mass Effect 2
(speculative) God of War

 

[Trace]

The gameplay, visuals, music, and audio sound and look incredibly pleasing.

I'm stoked.

Honestly it looks about as good as I could have hoped. Changes to make PvP not garbage, bigger zones and more stuff to get without breaking what makes Destiny one of the best FPS games out there.

Your assertion doesn't hold water.

Diablo -> Diablo 2
Witcher -> Witcher 2 -> Witcher 3
Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask
Bioshock Infinite
Mass Effect -> Mass Effect 2
(speculative) God of War

To be fair, at least in most of your examples, the actual gameplay was dogshit and they had to go back to the drawing board to make it better.

 

[Jest Chillin]

hyperbole aside, it looks very similar and I assume thats what they mean rather than literally its the same thing.

You can design bosses without massive healthbars that also take into account gear and stats, and also make them fun to fight. I cannot believe someone is arguing for bullet sponge bosses.

How do Statistics on Gear and Player Level get implemented without bosses having health bars? If a boss does not have an inflated health bar in a shooter, then it should, by all rights, be able to be 1-shot if you hit it in the right place.

And destructible parts, like the precious Scarab boss from Halo 3, are just clever ways to hide a health bar. You have to do enough damage to the right places for it to blow up. Enough of that done and you can finally kill it. Now add that instead of one player it's 3 or more players shooting it. Now you have to increase that invisibile health bar to account for that.

A bullet sponge boss isn't just a boss with a lot of health. It's a boss that by its design does very little but get shot up a lot by you as you dodge its slow and extremely telegraphed attacks. You're free to defend these bosses as "The way Destiny was meant to be played". But I think it is clearly obvious to everybody else that the bosses are designed this way because it is difficult to make better bosses, not that this was the most-desired goal.

So... a boss like the Scarab boss in the video I linked earlier. That did very little but walk around and shoot at you until you hit the weak spots?

Bosses in Destiny do not use nothing but slow and telegraphed attacks either. They have defined patterns of attack, sure. But so has every boss in every game for decades. There is only so much you can do to spice up a boss fight and still retain the FPS elements. Bungie has knocked that out of the park in spades.

 

[Smokey_Run]

Your assertion doesn't hold water.

Diablo -> Diablo 2
Witcher -> Witcher 2 -> Witcher 3
Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask
Bioshock Infinite
Mass Effect -> Mass Effect 2
(speculative) God of War

So a very rare exception, not the rule. Does God of War even count considering we're going on the 5th or 6th game in the franchise before there was any actual design changes?

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Because Raids are the literally the culmination of PvE. That's why. The Scarab boss and "fun battle scenarios" I'm sure were quite fun. This isn't Halo and it's silly as hell to, 4 years later, STILL be measuring Destiny games 1:1 with your rose-tinted-glases spoiled version of Halo.

Destiny is not Halo. It's not your bog standard FPS. It's heavily influenced by MMO standards and mechanics. It is not reasonable, at all, to still be waving your nostalgia boner at Bungie and telling them to meet an fantasized standard that you've pedestaled in your memory.

Because this fight (which, btw is a boss standing in the middle of the level walking around and shooting at whoever aggros it) plain and simply would be considered garbage by todays standard, no matter how you slice it. And it doesn't touch the complexity and coordination in something like this which, while Hard Mode, still isn't the most difficult version of doing this fight.

Bruh, you got me all wrong. I really, truly do not hold Bungie up on any pedestal, particularly after the first Destiny, but I do recognize that they had a knack for a very specific kind of dynamic sandbox combat that has, thus far, not had a very big presence in Destiny, and it perplexes me. There was a great ebb and flow to what Bungie used to bring to the table, with small firefights that played out with a kind balletic spontaneity building to big flashy skirmishes with a lot of systemic highlight potential. All I got from MOST of Destiny 1 (because, let's be honest, Raids are a small piece of the puzzle in terms of play time) were little awkward encounters peppered around uneventful playspaces before you hit the mini-bosses and bosses who were generally stationary sponges or sponges who teleport. Now sure they alleviated a bit of this in The Taken King, but not nearly to where I'd like them to be.

That brings us to this Destiny 2 footage, and I have pretty much the same complaints. Sure you can rattle off a list of bullet points about all the QoL improvements, and generic terms like New Weapons and New Locations (all of which I appreciate), but I look at the core gameplay loop, the encounter design, the way enemies move, the way the boss is handled, the pacing and enemy spawns, level progression, etc. and I'm just not seeing that spark. Combat in Halo was, at times, a truly joyful experience, even against the lowest tier enemies. I've never gotten that from Destiny. Saving all the interesting design wrinkles and encounters for the Raid (if that's what's happening again) is weak. I don't want to hear about Strikes being brain dead missions because of reasons, and I don't want to see "MMO" being used as an excuse to not elevate the creativity of level progression and encounters.

And before you bring up how many millions of players love the game and don't want sweeping changes, I understand. There's value in the kind of game Destiny is, and the one that Destiny 2 has shown itself to be so far. In my opinion, I think they could be doing more. And to be fair, the Story mission they showed off, while not very interesting mechanically, did have a kind of flair nowhere to be seen in Destiny 1, so what I'm looking for might very well be in the game. I'll let you know if I see it.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Your assertion doesn't hold water.

Diablo -> Diablo 2
Witcher -> Witcher 2 -> Witcher 3
Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask
Bioshock Infinite
Mass Effect -> Mass Effect 2
(speculative) God of War

lol what?

Diablo and Diablo 2 still use the same genre mechanics.

Witcher to Witcher 2 sees significant gameplay changes. Not true of Witcher 2 to 3. And Witcher's gameplay mechanics were completely unique and not fun.

Ocarina of Time to Majora's Mask isn't a sequel. It's a new game utilizing the same IP.

Bioshock Infinite is a new game using the Bioshock IP.

Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2 is a genre change. They dropped the vast majority of the RPG elements to become primarily shooter first. This was met with mixed reception.

God of War games use the same genre mechanics.

And out of those examples both the Diablo and God of War examples are a lot closer to Destiny -> Destiny 2 than you notice or perhaps care to admit.

 

[Two Words]

How do Statistics on Gear and Player Level get implemented without bosses having health bars? If a boss does not have an inflated health bar in a shooter, then it should, by all rights, be able to be 1-shot if you hit it in the right place.

And destructible parts, like the precious Scarab boss from Halo 3, are just clever ways to hide a health bar. You have to do enough damage to the right places for it to blow up. Enough of that done and you can finally kill it. Now add that instead of one player it's 3 or more players shooting it. Now you have to increase that invisibile health bar to account for that.



So... a boss like the Scarab boss in the video I linked earlier. That did very little but walk around and shoot at you until you hit the weak spots?

Bosses in Destiny do not use nothing but slow and telegraphed attacks either. They have defined patterns of attack, sure. But so has every boss in every game for decades. There is only so much you can do to spice up a boss fight and still retain the FPS elements. Bungie has knocked that out of the park in spades.

I personally wasn't as enthralled with that Scarab boss as Twighlight was. I thought it was neat though, definitely better than any encounter in the Destiny strikes. A lot of that has to do with how it subverts your expectations of a Halo game. Destiny fails to do this when it has these bullet sponge bosses. They're plain and simply bad bosses. The shooting is fun. The weapons are fun. The abilities are fun. The bosses suck. I have way more fun trying to hand cannon headshot Fallen vandals than fighting most of the strike bosses. In the strike they played today, the encounter with the drill looked really cool. I like how the platforming was weaved into the environment like that. There is nothing clever like that in the actual boss. It's just another anthropomorphic giant being with a cannon plodding around as you dump bullets into it.

They can do better. Plain and simple, I think you're patting Bungie's back too hard on this.

lol what?

Diablo and Diablo 2 still use the same genre mechanics.

Witcher to Witcher 2 sees significant gameplay changes. Not true of Witcher 2 to 3. And Witcher's gameplay mechanics were completely unique and not fun.

Ocarina of Time to Majora's Mask isn't a sequel. It's a new game utilizing the same IP.

Bioshock Infinite is a new game using the Bioshock IP.

Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2 is a genre change. They dropped the vast majority of the RPG elements to become primarily shooter first. This was met with mixed reception.

God of War games use the same genre mechanics.

And out of those examples both the Diablo and God of War examples are a lot closer to Destiny -> Destiny 2 than you notice or perhaps care to admit.

Show me a single poster that said Destiny 2 should no longer use the same "genre mechanics". Nobody is asking for Destiny 2 should be in a different genre.

 

[Neuro]

hyperbole aside, it looks very similar and I assume thats what they mean rather than literally its the same thing.

You can design bosses without massive healthbars that also take into account gear and stats, and also make them fun to fight. I cannot believe someone is arguing for bullet sponge bosses.

Have you had a chance to run through Skolas, a boss encounter which negated all these and had solid set of mechanics to boot...Turns out most hated the complexity of the encounter, a similar principle was put in the daughters encounter in kings fall and again many loathed the encounter (memorizing counter clockwise running is quite difficult for most). I'd say even the spindle run was quite the challenge in the beginning and many weren't interested in playing through it...

Destiny is aimed at a casual shooter audience, you are never going to find the level of depth in the game that you find in other fps like Bioshock or Half life where encounters are designed with one single player in mind.

It is a game not designed for the ultra hardcore segment, the idea is to get as many as one can on board and shooting things. I think once you understand this core philosophy it is easier to know why a lot of bosses are mere bullet sponges...

 

[duhmetree]

A bullet sponge boss isn't just a boss with a lot of health. It's a boss that by its design does very little but get shot up a lot by you as you dodge its slow and extremely telegraphed attacks. You're free to defend these bosses as "The way Destiny was meant to be played". But I think it is clearly obvious to everybody else that the bosses are designed this way because it is difficult to make better bosses, not that this was the most-desired goal.

A Strike is a slightly harder mission with a boss at the end.... It's meant for everyone to finish and to further progress the story.

Adding more of a challenge for a matchmade story mission would affect a large part of the player base.

 

[Two Words]

A Strike is a slightly harder mission with a boss at the end.... It's meant for everyone to finish and to further progress the story.

Strikes are meant to be played over and over and over again. It would be nice for the bosses at the end of them to not be bad.

 

[Twilight Gap]

What exactly would make this "a true sequel" and not an expansion type of release for those who feel that way?

Good post, and to answer your question, here's what would make the game feel like a sequel to me:

-Longer story missions. I appreciate that Destiny has bite sized story missions because even though I enjoy a long campaign mission, I don't want to replay a longass mission for a daily story just to get loot. Yet there was always that nagging feeling with Destiny that the Story missions were insultingly short to the extent that I didn't care what was happening even when they started to improve the lore. It didn't feel like anything was unfolding because just as soon as you were thrust into action, you had won the battle and you were staring at your mission reward screen. That's obviously part of the Destiny formula that is unlikely to change, but I'd hope they look into the length of those missions to deliver a more meaty Campaign. I've replaced the first Felwinter's Peak mission in Rise of Iron more than any other in Destiny - of my own volition, mind you - because it feels more like a progressive story mission and less like a side quest.

-Transmog, or whatever it's called that let's you have more control over your Guardian's appearance. We got a little of this with infusion, chromas and ornaments, but Destiny customization - while there is plenty of armor by this time in Destiny 1 - still feels restricted. I honestly don't like the majority of the armor in the game, and the ones I do like are either low light or don't have any stats on them. This extends to the weapons as well; my favorite looking weapons in Destiny 1 were the white common gear and that was pretty much useless after playing for a few hours. Vanity is a big draw for me in any game, and it would feel like a true leap forward if this was addressed with Destiny 2. Like if the shader system is overhauled to apply to sections of gear rather than your entire Guardian, that would be a big bonus for me.

-New Enemy behaviors. Destiny already has several dozen enemies and I wasn't really expecting a completely new class of them. A new race with its own lore would definitely shake things up, but it's more important to me to see new AI behaviors. We're already seeing Psion and Minotaur snipers and some Centurions wielding blades and I'd like to see that extend throughout all ranks. When the Taken were introduced in Destiny 1, they felt like new enemies - even though they were literally reskins - because they behaved completely different. We're obviously annoyed at them by now so I hope they're nowhere to be found, but I'd hope Destiny 2 has something like that to prevent things from getting stale. This is especially important in boss battles, and I'd hope The Inverted Spire is not indicative of the furthest they attempted to deviate from Destiny 1's boss battle formula.

-Better Vehicles. This was the weakest area of Destiny's sandbox, such so that it felt like an afterthought. One could argue that Destiny doesn't need vehicles, but from developers who were arguably the best at them at one point, it was puzzling how little attention they received. I believe we've seen a drivable tank already so there are most likely a few new ones. But this is definitely one area they can really improve upon within the game - one that would make it feel like more than the past expansions.

-PvP customization. I've read that private matches wont be in the game at launch, which is whatever, but I'd hope that if (and hopefully when) they arrive, there are more options for customization. Again, this is the former developer of Halo, so I want to see options that let players run around with Supers all game or have more control over gametypes and settings.

I'm not expecting a theater mode, a Forge, a decal editor, player trading, space ship combat or other things that could potentially make the game "not Destiny", but I wouldn't mind if they were there. Nevertheless, everything I've listed above builds on top of the game's existing systems and they're things I hope they have yet to show.

I'll probably think of more later.

 

[Laurel_McFang]

The A.I. In the story sections was literally hand can on fodder just standing there etc however the chaos present in the strike was robust and greater variety in enemy designs ala dogs and the larger shields was nice. That said its not really until we see how this plugs into the overworld that it will start to function. So far Destiny 2 looks like an iterative sequel and not the innovation I was hoping for so might sit back on this one let a streamer farm loot etc. does anyone know if the 4v4 multiplayer is intended to help with selecting opponents by skill level and connection speed? I.e. Smaller size means easier to find suitable opponents? Bungie you haven't impressed me yet, but at the least the sequel looks Taken King level.

 

[Obliterator]

This past page has had some really good discussion honestly, and not a whole lot of the drive by stuff we saw earlier in the thread but actually engaging conversation so props to everyone in here atm discussing whichever side of the fence you fall on in terms of Destiny 2.

I'm gonna have to pass out now ya'll but just wanted to acknowledge the nice debates going on before I bounce

 

[Twilight Gap]

I'm having trouble putting into words how happy that makes me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFSQZKkmetU#t=18m53s

 

[GreyWind]

I'm gonna be so happy if D2 has theater mode or something close to it.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNtQRsCmKk found some gameplay of the minigun. It looks like it is an archetype for the auto rifles? Really? Or is this just one exotic that is a minigun? I'm gonna be so disappointed if it's just the exotic.

 

[Neuro]

The A.I. In the story sections was literally hand can on fodder just standing there etc however the chaos present in the strike was robust and greater variety in enemy designs ala dogs and the larger shields was nice. That said its not really until we see how this plugs into the overworld that it will start to function. So far Destiny 2 looks like an iterative sequel and not the innovation I was hoping for so might sit back on this one let a streamer farm loot etc. does anyone know if the 4v4 multiplayer is intended to help with selecting opponents by skill level and connection speed? I.e. Smaller size means easier to find suitable opponents? Bungie you haven't impressed me yet, but at the least the sequel looks Taken King level.

I think that's where Bungie falters because of the number 2 in the logo...Since it's d2 people expect it to be significantly different from it's predecessor, what most here fail to relaise that a lot of the core audience doesn't want everything to be changed. After 2000 hours of play time over 3 years, I just want another game which does the same thing with friends I have met and played religiously over 3 years...

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Are Mars, Moon etc. still in?

 

[SpokkX]

So.. watched this Strike

https://youtu.be/d_PwEJom5YE

It says Destiny 2 in the title..

But If someone had told me this was a new strike set on Venus from Destiny 1 i would seriously have believed them (i have not played the latest addon packs to Destiny 1)

Imo it looks pretty much identical? Still more or less a corridor with the same enemies and weapons. I guess there are more particle effects and new powers..

 

[Neuro]

Are Mars, Moon etc. still in?

Expansions I'd reckon...

 

[Jest Chillin]

I personally wasn't as enthralled with that Scarab boss as Twighlight was. I thought it was neat though, definitely better than any encounter in the Destiny strikes. A lot of that has to do with how it subverts your expectations of a Halo game. Destiny fails to do this when it has these bullet sponge bosses. They're plain and simply bad bosses. The shooting is fun. The weapons are fun. The abilities are fun. The bosses suck. I have way more fun trying to hand cannon headshot Fallen vandals than fighting most of the strike bosses. In the strike they played today, the encounter with the drill looked really cool. I like how the platforming was weaved into the environment like that. There is nothing clever like that in the actual boss. It's just another anthropomorphic giant being with a cannon plodding around as you dump bullets into it.

They can do better. Plain and simple, I think you're patting Bungie's back too hard on this.

If bosses having health bars is that awful to you, you should stop looking at Destiny to change that. Because what you call "Bullet Sponge" is health bars. No matter what they may add or change, the bosses will always have health bars. It's a core design choice.

Show me a single poster that said Destiny 2 should no longer use the same "genre mechanics". Nobody is asking for Destiny 2 should be in a different genre.

Some of the examples in the post I quoted were literally genre changes. Witcher 1 to Witcher 2 is pretty much a different genre. Yes Geralt still technically hacks and slashes but the method, timing, and pacing of it is more like each fight is a mini-game in Witcher. It's quite different. Which is why many people have only played 2 and 3 significantly and hate the gameplay of 1.

Mass Effect 1 to 2 is comfortably a genre change. 1 is solidly an RPG with shooting elements. 2 is a shooter with minor RPG elements. 3 is a shooter completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNtQRsCmKk found some gameplay of the minigun. It looks like it is an archetype for the auto rifles? Really? Or is this just one exotic that is a minigun? I'm gonna be so disappointed if it's just the exotic.

The mini-gun shown today is an Exotic AR. It hasn't been said if it's just the one or if there is a mini-gun AR archetype.

 

[Lucifon]

People defending the 'looks the same' comments are missing the point of what people are trying to say. There's plenty of ways for Destiny to keep its core loop but add impressive and interesting new gameplay elements. At least so far it doesn't appear they've done that. It looks like more of the same content but with minor tweaks and improvements here and there.

I also think after the first game people expected this to be the game which hit the targets and scale that Bungie originally set out to deliver in the first but couldn't due to development issues.

 

[veloxStrix]

We spoke with David Shaw, Bungie’s senior producer on the PC version, who told us Destiny 2 definitely wouldn’t have dedicated servers. I also pressed him on whether it would have a better tick rate than Destiny 1 which was abysmal, but he couldn’t go into any additional detail beyond saying it would still be some form of peer to peer.

From the newest PC Gamer article.

I mean, ffs Bungie.

 

[BLCKATK]

Good post, and to answer your question, here's what would make the game feel like a sequel to me:

-Longer story missions. I appreciate that Destiny has bite sized story missions because even though I enjoy a long campaign mission, I don't want to replay a longass mission for a daily story just to get loot. Yet there was always that nagging feeling with Destiny that the Story missions were insultingly short to the extent that I didn't care what was happening even when they started to improve the lore. It didn't feel like anything was unfolding because just as soon as you were thrust into action, you had won the battle and you were staring at your mission reward screen. That's obviously part of the Destiny formula that is unlikely to change, but I'd hope they look into the length of those missions to deliver a more meaty Campaign. I've replaced the first Felwinter's Peak mission in Rise of Iron more than any other in Destiny - of my own volition, mind you - because it feels more like a progressive story mission and less like a side quest.

-Transmog, or whatever it's called that let's you have more control over your Guardian's appearance. We got a little of this with infusion, chromas and ornaments, but Destiny customization - while there is plenty of armor by this time in Destiny 1 - still feels restricted. I honestly don't like the majority of the armor in the game, and the ones I do like are either low light or don't have any stats on them. This extends to the weapons as well; my favorite looking weapons in Destiny 1 were the white common gear and that was pretty much useless after playing for a few hours. Vanity is a big draw for me in any game, and it would feel like a true leap forward if this was addressed with Destiny 2. Like if the shader system is overhauled to apply to sections of gear rather than your entire Guardian, that would be a big bonus for me.

-New Enemy behaviors. Destiny already has several dozen enemies and I wasn't really expecting a completely new class of them. A new race with its own lore would definitely shake things up, but it's more important to me to see new AI behaviors. We're already seeing Psion and Minotaur snipers and some Centurions wielding blades and I'd like to see that extend throughout all ranks. When the Taken were introduced in Destiny 1, they felt like new enemies - even though they were literally reskins - because they behaved completely different. We're obviously annoyed at them by now so I hope they're nowhere to be found, but I'd hope Destiny 2 has something like that to prevent things from getting stale. This is especially important in boss battles, and I'd hope The Inverted Spire is not indicative of the furthest they attempted to deviate from Destiny 1's boss battle formula.

-Vehicles. This was the weakest area of Destiny's sandbox, such so that it felt like an afterthought. One could argue that Destiny doesn't need vehicles, but from developers who were arguably the best at them at one point, it was puzzling how little attention they received. I believe we've seen a drivable tank already so there are most likely a few new ones. But this is definitely one area they can really improve upon within the game - one that would make it feel like more than the past expansions.

-PvP customization. I've read that private matches wont be in the game at launch, which is whatever, but I'd hope that if (and hopefully when) they arrive, there are more options for customization. Again, this is the former developer of Halo, so I want to see options that let players run around with Supers all game or have more control over gametypes and settings.

I'm not expecting a theater mode, a Forge, a decal editor, player trading, space ship combat or other things that could potentially make the game "not Destiny", but I wouldn't mind if they were there. Nevertheless, everything I've listed above builds on top of the game's existing systems and they're things I hope they have yet to show.

I'll probably think of more later.

Just to tag into the discussion here, but I totally think all the bulleted things are feasible and might be coming in some way, shape or form.

Something I read with a lot of the earlier posts in the thread is the idea that this is it, this is all we are getting and that's why it's a disappointing sequel. I can honestly only think that this is the beginning of them showing information on the game and getting us dialed in.

There is going to be more stuff shown, some we are going to really like and some we aren't going to, but I felt like they showed that potential for greatness with the reveal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNtQRsCmKk found some gameplay of the minigun. It looks like it is an archetype for the auto rifles? Really? Or is this just one exotic that is a minigun? I'm gonna be so disappointed if it's just the exotic.

As of right now it's definitely just that exotic, but that's just right now. Maybe there will be more, or LMGs will make their way back into the game.

I mean as it stands, that gun is one hell of an exotic, it's actually vastly different from your typical auto-rifle. Thats cool.

 

[duhmetree]

Strikes are meant to be played over and over and over again. It would be nice for the bosses at the end of them to not be bad.

Have you played since TTK? Strike bosses have gotten a lot better... the one they showed today was lackluster.... wouldn't be surprised if it was the PS4 exclusive strike.

I'd love to have a 'Soulsborne type boss challenge' outside of Raids... but we're the minority... It would yield a low completion/participation rate along with complaints.

 

[Neuro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNtQRsCmKk found some gameplay of the minigun. It looks like it is an archetype for the auto rifles? Really? Or is this just one exotic that is a minigun? I'm gonna be so disappointed if it's just the exotic.

It's a kinetic exotic auto rifle which fires like a minigun...Though I wouldn't be surprised if they have high Rof low impact legendary versions which do the same

 

[duhmetree]

Are Mars, Moon etc. still in?

Soon.

 

[scoobs]

So I read in one of the interviews that they'll continue using P2P connections for this game, huge fucking deal breaker for me. Crucible was really frustrating because there was always 1 or 2 red bar dudes teleporting around the map killing people unfairly. God I wish they'd figure out a way to use servers.