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[nillapuddin]

Defender especially. I'm a defender fan but come on, no one used it..

me: *only ever uses bubble titan*

:'(


Im not denouncing them, and the game is made at this point so complaining doesnt do anything, I just hope with the third classes they incorporate support heavier for the supers

I dont mind if 2/3 are offensive, Bubble and Self-Res are my favorite part of the raid experience, I think its awesome how they work from a strategy perspective

 

[LTWood12]

Destiny 1 had a problem where as a Warlock, self-revive sunsinger was the only sensible option to take for high level content, like raids and nightfall. It's annoying that their "fix" for this is to remove Sunsinger. They should make the other classes better, not remove what's good.

In the early days but that's definitely not the case now. Warlocks are by far the least desired class to have in your raid fireteam now. There's no group buff/support abilities. Just an insurance policy against dying in hard mode.

 

[Shito]

I spent most of my time on Sunsinger and I was able to do just fine killing adds with guns. Dps supers obviously help with adds, but you weapons are usually more than enough to deal with them. Supers like self-res and titan's bubble offer things that no weapon can replace.

And one could argue that self-res offers nothing either: you should never need to have to rely on it to clear an encounter. It's not an interesting mechanic, really, when the main idea behind it is that if you do good enough you should *not* be using it.
And I'm saying that as someone who relied a lot on it to solo nightfalls during the early days of the game!

 

[dengatron]

I'd be at ease if what they replaced them with weren't just "kills lots of enemies quickly" like every other subclass in destiny. Those were what made the classes unique in the first place. If every subclass for every character is just "kills enemies quickly", it will be pretty disappointing. I know someone said apparently Warlocks heal? Not sure if thats true or not but those were the types of additions to subclasses I was most looking forward to.

thats the class wide ability warlocks get. heal bubble or damage bubble. the "support" skills are class wide so that you're not forced into a certain subclass when activity difficulty starts increasing. that's the point. you're now able to play whatever sub class you want, and still benefit from the flavor that makes each individual class unique. i can understand being disappointed by everything being "kill enemies quickly" but it's an actual nightmare to balance end game pve content around self revive and titan bubble. this opens up so many more gameplay options than just HAVING to be a defender or sunsinger for certain boss mechanics.

 

[Herp Derpington]

Defender was critical in PVE. Not so much in PVP.

Yeah I referenced it in my post above. I've used Defender in PvE since the beginning. I think though Bungie wanted to move away from this mentality and move towards being able to use any subclass in PvE and I'm ok with it. I know not everyone will be and that's fine but I am hopeful they balanced PvE to where any sub class can be used in confidence.

 

[jviggy43]

In the early days but that's definitely not the case now. Warlocks are by far the least desired class to have in your raid fireteam now. There's no group buff/support abilities. Just an insurance policy against dying in hard mode.

This appears to still be the case only now the most useful of abilities is removed in lieu of more dps. Again unless that warlock healing mechanic is legit, which I hope it is because that instantly makes them an important team role.

thats the class wide ability warlocks get. heal bubble or damage bubble. the "support" skills are class wide so that you're not forced into a certain subclass when activity difficulty starts increasing. that's the point. you're now able to play whatever sub class you want, and still benefit from the flavor that makes each individual class unique. i can understand being disappointed by everything being "kill enemies quickly" but it's an actual nightmare to balance end game pve content around self revive and titan bubble. this opens up so many more gameplay options than just HAVING to be a defender or sunsinger for certain boss mechanics.

Balancing is hard is not an acceptable excuse for me. Anyway, Warlocks now have the bubble?

EDIT: Yes that is correct it appears

https://www.vg247.com/2017/05/19/destiny-2-all-warlock-dawnblade-subclass-skills-and-abilities/

Super: Daybreak
Press R1+L1 to weave Solar Light into blades and smite your foes from the skies
Grenades
Solar Grenade:
A grenade that creates a flare of Solar Light which continually damages enemies trapped inside
Firebolt Grenade:
A grenade that unleashes bolts of Solar Light at nearby enemies
Fusion Grenade:
An explosive grenade that causes bonus damage when attached to its target
Class ability: Rifts
Healing Rift:
Conjure a well of Light that continually heals those inside it
Empowering Rift:
Conjure a well of Light that increases the attack power of those inside it
Jumps
Balanced Glide:
Glide jump ability provides bonuses to both speed and control
Focused Burst:
Glide jump ability provides an initial burst of speed
Controlled Glide:
Glide jump ability provides better directional control while in the air
Passive skill tree 1
Phoenix Dive:
Auickly descend from mid-air and regenerate health
Skyfire:
When Daybreak is active, descend causes explosive damage when you land
Risen Angel:
While in the air, aim your weapon to hover in pace for a short time. Dealing Precision damage will extend this effect's duration
Igniting Touch:
A powerful melee ability that ignites enemies and causes them to explode
Passive skill tree 2
Firestarter :
A powerful melee ability that damages enemies while also increasing your movement and reload speed
Wild Fire:
Engage your enemies in mid-flight. Fire weapons and throw grenades while gliding
Everlasting Flames:
Killing an enemy with Daybreak extends its duration
Blazing Dash:
Dodge in mid-air

 

[Shito]

This appears to still be the case only now the most useful of abilities is removed in lieu of more dps. Again unless that warlock healing mechanic is legit, which I hope it is because that instantly makes them an important team role.

It is, you can see it being used in the opening story mission!

 

[psyfi]

I think Bungie changed the subclasses for the better. Part of me is going to miss defense / support ults, but really this makes more sense.

 

[dengatron]

Balancing is hard is not an acceptable excuse for me. Anyway, Warlocks now have the bubble?

balance isn't hard with those mechanics. it's impossible. not playing defender in pve as a titan made you effectively worthless. that's shitty. they fixed it.

yes warlocks have the bubble. it doesn't block damage, it's basically just weapons of light or a heal now.

 

[jviggy43]

balance isn't hard with those mechanics. it's impossible. not playing defender in pve as a titan made you effectively worthless. that's shitty. they fixed it.

yes warlocks have the bubble. it doesn't block damage, it's basically just weapons of light or a heal now.

I disagree entirely. Those mechanics aren't so profound that they couldn't have done something to the other abilities to make them more viable (They could have probably started by making them less DPS oriented and more buff/debuff oriented cause thats what everyone runs with). Games like OW manages to balance abilities far more unique for 23 characters that are all throwing them out constantly without it being a hurdle, of which I would argue is even more difficult given that its PvP oriented. Theres no way thatr excuse flies today.

 

[Two Words]

balance isn't hard with those mechanics. it's impossible. not playing defender in pve as a titan made you effectively worthless. that's shitty. they fixed it.

yes warlocks have the bubble. it doesn't block damage, it's basically just weapons of light or a heal now.

Make Striker and Hammer class more useful. The problem is that they are weak. Doing the storm fist thing quickly loses its utility. Bubble never does. Either make storm fist more powerful or replace it with something better.

 

[Dre_G_Writer]

Defender Titan is the only Titan worth playing. There, I said it.

Man, I disagree with you like, 1000000000%.

Defender Titan was the only titan I used. after leveling up all three of the sub classes.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Yeah I referenced it in my post above. I've used Defender in PvE since the beginning. I think though Bungie wanted to move away from this mentality and move towards being able to use any subclass in PvE and I'm ok with it. I know not everyone will be and that's fine but I am hopeful they balanced PvE to where any sub class can be used in confidence.

I'm really hoping that will be the case! I only ever played as a hunter in D1 and there were plenty of times where I felt flat out useless as a result. I recall being entirely turned off from raiding at one point after having a group (including friends) that had plans for everyone but me (the only hunter). It was basically Titans + Warlocks do all the work and Hunters can sit back and dish out DPS...

 

[Jest Chillin]

I spent most of my time on Sunsinger and I was able to do just fine killing adds with guns. Dps supers obviously help with adds, but you weapons are usually more than enough to deal with them. Supers like self-res and titan's bubble offer things that no weapon can replace.

Weapons do do just fine. Until several of your party members are doing mechanics that don't allow them to shoot. Or they run out of ammo. Or someone is just plain out of position.

Self-res only serves as error recovery. For one person. Titan's buble was too powerful as the combination of buffs, a ton of orbs for the group, AND a dome of protection removed difficulty from the encounter.

Giving Warlocks the buff and giving the Titan situational shielding for a group is a good balance for what they removed.

Honestly you sound like the type of player that prefers being over powered compared to the content rather than the type that likes to overcome challenges. And if that's your thing, ok. That's not what Bungie wants Destiny to be though. So again we come back to the distinct impression that you really really want Destiny to be something different from Bungie's vision. Which suggests that perhaps Destiny just isn't for you. Not that you're not allowed it but that it just doesn't do it for you. Which is ok too. But maybe just move on instead of insisting that your vision is better than what Bungie has made that a lot of other people enjoy?

 

[Dreez]

Just read up on class abilities. Game changer for me is an actual healing ability (thru the warlock). Oh yes!!! Also warlock's super looks dope af, it's basically Titan's hammer. Think I'm going lock this time around.

 

[irrotational]

Random speculation but what does blizzard.net mean for cross play or cross save between consoles and PC? I'm assuming it rules those out with Xbox because they'd want a win10 store version on PC?

Is it still possible? If not is it likely with Sony at all?

 

[dengatron]

I disagree entirely. Those mechanics aren't so profound that they couldn't have done something to the other abilities to make them more viable (They could have probably started by making them less DPS oriented and more buff/debuff oriented cause thats what everyone runs with). Games like OW manages to balance abilities far more unique for 23 characters that are all throwing them out constantly without it being a hurdle, of which I would argue is even more difficult given that its PvP oriented. Theres no way thatr excuse flies today.

pvp balance for a hero based shooter is the ENTIRETY of the game for overwatch. flawed argument. the only pve overwatch has had so far which allowed you to choose your character the most successful groups played a fixed group comp that someone posted on reddit. this is exactly the same vein. the only self revive in the game for content that doesn't allow respawns and the only ACTUAL defensive skill in the entire game require that the game be balanced around them, so if you don't use them, you aren't effective. how is that hard to understand? it's like you're telling me that in wow raiding you should just buff dps classes because tanks and healers are mandatory. defender bubble was mandatory.

Make Striker and Hammer class more useful. The problem is that they are weak. Doing the storm fist thing quickly loses its utility. Bubble never does. Either make storm fist more powerful or replace it with something better.

striker and hammer class seem to be where bungie wants the power level to be, though, since that's where they're taking sentinel. defender and sunsinger were the outliers, with blade dancer being the extreme negative outlier. in group based pve, you're trying to bring power levels towards the middle, not buff the bottom to match the top.

 

[LKSmash]

Random speculation but what does blizzard.net mean for cross play or cross save between consoles and PC? I'm assuming it rules those out with Xbox because they'd want a win10 store version on PC?

Is it still possible? If not is it likely with Sony at all?

They've come out and said no cross save:

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/destiny-2-wont-have-cross-save-between-pc-and-console

 

[jviggy43]

pvp balance for a hero based shooter is the ENTIRETY of the game for overwatch. flawed argument. the only pve overwatch has had so far which allowed you to choose your character the most successful groups played a fixed group comp that someone posted on reddit. this is exactly the same vein. the only self revive in the game for content that doesn't allow respawns and the only ACTUAL defensive skill in the entire game require that the game be balanced around them, so if you don't use them, you aren't effective. how is that hard to understand? it's like you're telling me that in wow raiding you should just buff dps classes because tanks and healers are mandatory. defender bubble was mandatory.

Shrug. Make the other abilities more viable. How is that hard to understand? You don't throw the baby out with the bath water because other abilities are too popular. You find ways to add new abilities or to the existing ones that would improve their utility in a manner which allows you to have flexibility rather than rely on a single constant subclass. Healing would be one ability which would had likely been picked over rez had it been released in D1 for warlocks. I'm stoked that thats actually an ability in the sequel. Thats the kind of ability I would have wanted them giving to characters. Not "press rb/lb to kill all enemies" in lieu of tactical subclasses like defender. I don't buy the its hard to balance argument, its bullshit.

 

[Z3M0G]

Sorry if none of this is new, but Datto shows off quite a bit here. Skill Trees, lots of gameplay, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10TbML18pMg

 

[irrotational]

They've come out and said no cross save:

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/destiny-2-wont-have-cross-save-between-pc-and-console

Ah ok thanks! That sucks though I really thought they would do some sort of cross save or play... particularly co-op.

I could go PC but I generally play on Xbox...hmm

 

[Defuser]

Ironically the reason defender bubble plays a critical role to the raids is due to Weapons of light. A offensive ability buff that boost damage lol. That was all it was good for when comes to dps'ing raid bosses.

Look like the Hunter's Nightstalker will be the de facto essential in raids if Bungie doesn't change it's abilities in D2 now that the Defender class is gone.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I disagree entirely. Those mechanics aren't so profound that they couldn't have done something to the other abilities to make them more viable (They could have probably started by making them less DPS oriented and more buff/debuff oriented cause thats what everyone runs with). Games like OW manages to balance abilities far more unique for 23 characters that are all throwing them out constantly without it being a hurdle, of which I would argue is even more difficult given that its PvP oriented. Theres no way thatr excuse flies today.

Overwatch is balanced around roles, not abilities. At that point it becomes Team Comp and Player Ability that wins out. This is true of Destiny PvP as well.

But when we're talking about PvE encounters, having "must have" abilities lessens options, instead of creating more. Because PvE can never be as dynamic as PvP. So you have to then design encounters around the "must have" abilities which makes them less effective and by nature, makes the non-must have specs less effective as well unless you have mechanics that cater to those non-must have specs... which just then shifts the meta to making THOSE the new "must-have."

Abilities that trivialize encounter design is bad for PvE challenge and forces players into cookie-cutter compositions and builds. There is no such thing as buffing or changing other abilities to match because then everything just trivializes encounter design. Then you have to negate that with encounter design again making everything feel bad. So then you have to buff abilities again. It becomes power creep.

The goal of end game encounter design is to reward planning and execution. Not removing player choice through path of least resistance.

 

[Two Words]

Weapons do do just fine. Until several of your party members are doing mechanics that don't allow them to shoot. Or they run out of ammo. Or someone is just plain out of position.

Self-res only serves as error recovery. For one person. Titan's buble was too powerful as the combination of buffs, a ton of orbs for the group, AND a dome of protection removed difficulty from the encounter.

Giving Warlocks the buff and giving the Titan situational shielding for a group is a good balance for what they removed.

Honestly you sound like the type of player that prefers being over powered compared to the content rather than the type that likes to overcome challenges. And if that's your thing, ok. That's not what Bungie wants Destiny to be though. So again we come back to the distinct impression that you really really want Destiny to be something different from Bungie's vision. Which suggests that perhaps Destiny just isn't for you. Not that you're not allowed it but that it just doesn't do it for you. Which is ok too. But maybe just move on instead of insisting that your vision is better than what Bungie has made that a lot of other people enjoy?

I'm the kind of player that doesn't want to be nerfed. I'd rather they deliver tougher challenges than nerf abilities. It's weird how you make self-res sound like it only helps the warlock. Self-res can save the whole team from wiping.

 

[Double Donut]

Not enough people used them though and the numbers bore it out. Defender especially. I'm a defender fan but come on, no one used it.

What in the heck?

Do you exclusively play PvP or something? Defender was easily the most used Titan subclass in PvE.

 

[nillapuddin]

If Destiny didnt have that heavy Acti/Blizz connection I wonder if it woulda been XPA?

Id go as far to say I bet it very much could due to the nature of Xbox development nowadays, but they dont want that from a development perspective because they want Bnet exclusivity.

 

[wesleyshark]

So, what do we know about sub classes?

Titan - sentinel/striker/???
Hunter - gunslinger/arcpoledancer/???
Warlock - dawnblade/???/???

The third sub class could be something entirely new. Or have i missed something?
Did they say something about the TTK sub classes?

Titan - sentinel/striker/sunbreaker
Hunter - gunslinger/poledancer/nightstalker
Warlock - dawnblade/voidwalker/stormcaller

 

[dengatron]

Shrug. Make the other abilities more viable. How is that hard to understand? You don't throw the baby out with the bath water because other abilities are too popular. You find ways to add new abilities or to the existing ones that would improve their utility in a manner which allows you to have flexibility rather than rely on a single constant subclass. Healing would be one ability which would had likely been picked over rez had it been released in D1 for warlocks. I'm stoked that thats actually an ability in the sequel. Thats the kind of ability I would have wanted them giving to characters. Not "press rb/lb to kill all enemies" in lieu of tactical subclasses like defender. I don't buy the its hard to balance argument, its bullshit.

luckily bungie seems to agree with me in the fact that they're giving you what you're asking for, but making it on a class wide basis so sub classes can be picked for their flavor, and for whichever you may enjoy more. sure seems like something i'm glad to have

 

[Z3M0G]

Do we know anything major about how top tier gear works / will be delivered?

Will Xur still exist? Access to different gear each week to purchase with currency?

Do Exotics still exist? Do they work in a similar way? Same limits (1 weapon / 1 armor)?

 

[Jest Chillin]

I'm the kind of player that doesn't want to be nerfed. I'd rather they deliver tougher challenges than nerf abilities. It's weird how you make self-res sound like it only helps the warlock. Self-res can save the whole team from wiping.

Self res doesn't prevent the team from wiping except in the instance that the Warlock's death means not enough DPS for the encounter. In which case, the Warlock messed up and the Self Res covers their ass.

The only ways to make things "tougher" to counter Self Res or Titan Bubble would be to negate them (which is essentially a hard nerf), or make them trivial through additional health on enemies or extending encounter length. All of these are pretty universally seen as bad design.

The problem is that Self Res and Titan Bubble don't have a still requirement. Self Res literally requires the player to have messed up and died to be useful at end game and Titan Bubble's Protection aspect trivializes enemy damage directly and on the side provides higher DPS potential to the group through orbs. Stacking Defender Titan's exacerbates encounter trivialization both Defensively AND Offensively and that's too much.

Do we know anything major about how top tier gear works / will be delivered?

Will Xur still exist? Access to different gear each week to purchase with currency?

Do Exotics still exist? Do they work in a similar way? Same limits (1 weapon / 1 armor)?

No info on Gear Tier or delivery outside of the standard drops and chests yet. Nothing so far suggests a major change here though.

No info on Xur.

Exotics still exist and are said to be greater in number. The Mini-gun used in the reveal trailer is an Exotic Assault Rifle for example. No info on exotic limits.

 

[jviggy43]

Overwatch is balanced around roles, not abilities. At that point it becomes Team Comp and Player Ability that wins out. This is true of Destiny PvP as well.

But when we're talking about PvE encounters, having "must have" abilities lessens options, instead of creating more. Because PvE can never be as dynamic as PvP. So you have to then design encounters around the "must have" abilities which makes them less effective and by nature, makes the non-must have specs less effective as well unless you have mechanics that cater to those non-must have specs... which just then shifts the meta to making THOSE the new "must-have."

Abilities that trivialize encounter design is bad for PvE challenge and forces players into cookie-cutter compositions and builds. There is no such thing as buffing or changing other abilities to match because then everything just trivializes encounter design. Then you have to negate that with encounter design again making everything feel bad. So then you have to buff abilities again. It becomes power creep.

The goal of end game encounter design is to reward planning and execution. Not removing player choice through path of least resistance.

What in my post led you to believe I was arguing for less choice and forced composition? Because my suggestion of buffing the other abilities or adding the healing mechanic to the warlock was certainly aimed at giving players more options than just A,B, and C. Thats why I'm arguing for this in the first place. The argument is about whether to throw out an entire ability because its too heavily relied on vs making abilities that provide the same utility as the relied upon ones such as healing/rez/buff/debuff/or DpS that helps in end game (the latter is the argument I am making btw). How is that constrciting player options? Thats advocating for more options via better designed abilities. Idk why thats even controversial.

luckily bungie seems to agree with me in the fact that they're giving you what you're asking for, but making it on a class wide basis so sub classes can be picked for their flavor, and for whichever you may enjoy more. sure seems like something i'm glad to have

Oh I totally agree and am glad to read that thats the way theyre going with the sequel. However I just dont think they necessarily needed to take away popular abilities rather than they could add these new ones that could compete for use. I think healing could compete with sunsinger for end game utility and flexibility, giving weaker players the choice to sunsinger and stronger players a healing buff for their teammates. I'm all about that, I just disagree that they couldn't have designed better abilities around popular choices that they removed because it was impossible to balance.

 

[Two Words]

Self res doesn't prevent the team from wiping except in the instance that the Warlock's death means not enough DPS for the encounter. In which case, the Warlock messed up and the Self Res covers their ass.

The only ways to make things "tougher" to counter Self Res or Titan Bubble would be to negate them (which is essentially a hard nerf), or make them trivial through additional health on enemies or extending encounter length. All of these are pretty universally seen as bad design.

The problem is that Self Res and Titan Bubble don't have a still requirement. Self Res literally requires the player to have messed up and died to be useful at end game and Titan Bubble's Protection aspect trivializes enemy damage directly and on the side provides higher DPS potential to the group through orbs. Stacking Defender Titan's exacerbates encounter trivialization both Defensively AND Offensively and that's too much.



No info on Gear Tier or delivery outside of the standard drops and chests yet. Nothing so far suggests a major change here though.

No info on Xur.

Exotics still exist and are said to be greater in number. The Mini-gun used in the reveal trailer is an Exotic Assault Rifle for example. No info on exotic limits.

Huh? There are plenty of moments where a Warlock needs to execute on a mechanic and dies and self-res saves the day. There are plenty of times when the team all dies and a self-ressing Warlock saves the team from a wipe. There is a reason it was used so much.


Making the game more challenging can be done in many ways. But it will require the game open itself up more. As it is now, every encounter is designed in such a tight manner. It feels like there is a way which they expect you to take on each encounter.

 

[Jest Chillin]

What in my post led you to believe I was arguing for less choice and forced composition? Because my suggestion of buffing the other abilities or adding the healing mechanic to the warlock was certainly aimed at giving players more options than just A,B, and C. Thats why I'm arguing for this in the first place. The argument is about whether to throw out an entire ability because its too heavily relied on vs making abilities that provide the same utility as the relied upon ones such as healing/rez/buff/debuff/or DpS that helps in end game (the latter is the argument I am making btw). How is that constrciting player options? Thats advocating for more options via better designed abilities. Idk why thats even controversial.

Your post lacks recognition of the community habits. Whenever possible, the community will always take the path of least resistance. So regardless of balance changes (buff or nerf) the community will always search for the greatest efficiency and by and large adopt it. Resulting in cookie-cutter builds. That's the lack of choice.

You would think, then, that nerfing wouldn't be better than buffing right? Except buffing constantly leads to power creep no matter what. Power creep which then requires re-balancing everything in the game. From the open world mobs to the story missions to the side quests. Because you're buffing to balance for the hardest content, which then makes everything else a cakewalk.

It's much easier to create a standard baseline that everything is as close as possible to meeting while retaining unique aspects of classes and making the harder content require more planning, teamwork, and execution to complete. Then the focus of encounter design can be on mechanics rather than trying to counter abilities.

Huh? There are plenty of moments where a Warlock needs to execute on a mechanic and dies and self-res saves the day. There are plenty of times when the team all dies and a self-ressing Warlock saves the team from a wipe. There is a reason it was used so much.

Moments where the Warlock needs to execute a mechanic, fails, and then self-res' to compensate. The entire team fails and dies, and the Warlock(s) self-res to try and compensate. Failing first should not be rewarded. Failing and having a non-failing team member have the ability to compensate is the better option. So either everyone should be able to Res, and the content is then built around respawn capability or no one can res or the only way a res happens is if it's a teamate ressing to compensate as a reward for them being skilled enough to still be alive.

Making the game more challenging can be done in many ways. But it will require the game open itself up more. As it is now, every encounter is designed in such a tight manner. It feels like there is a way which they expect you to take on each encounter.

Tight encounter design is the goal. Raids are like puzzles that need to be figured out and then executed. This is why Hard Mode becomes less forgiving through more damage, additional mechanics, and harsher penalty on death. And Challenge mode becomes even more harsh on mistakes. It's a choreographed dance that the players have to learn with little to no guidance and then execute effeciently to be rewarded. There is room for some creativity, always, due to the ingenuity and intelligence of the playerbase. However when that creativiy negates design too much, changes are made. Either to the encounter (in the case of forcing Atheon off the play surface) or to the ability (in the case of Titan's losing Bubble). Raids are not a choose your own adventure encounter. They're not table top RPG's with freedom to MacGyver your way through it. They are serial narrative stories. Theme park rides. High level Math tests that require you to show your work. To use a bunch of awkward ass comparisons. lol

 

[Z3M0G]

No info on Gear Tier or delivery outside of the standard drops and chests yet. Nothing so far suggests a major change here though.

No info on Xur.

Exotics still exist and are said to be greater in number. The Mini-gun used in the reveal trailer is an Exotic Assault Rifle for example. No info on exotic limits.

After typing I thought we heard long ago that you could have Exotics in more / all slots at a time, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[Bunta]

I mained a Titan, the void shield looks pretty awesome.
They need to make this as a gesture for Titans:

 

[PulseONE]

Ehh, it feels more expansiony than sequely

I'll probably still get it though...really wished they increased the strike team size at least but oh well...

 

[EloquentM]

I think Bungie changed the subclasses for the better. Part of me is going to miss defense / support ults, but really this makes more sense.

I doubt they got rid of defense or support subclasses. We absolutely haven't seen even a smidgen of stuff in the game. I feel like people keep failing to realize that.

 

[broony]

There's actually in-game Lore button in the character screen, so your wish might come true.

Wait. Can you name your guardian now?

 

[Kyoufu]

I doubt they got rid of defense or support subclasses. We absolutely haven't seen even a smidgen of stuff in the game. I feel like people keep failing to realize that.

They took Titan's Blessing/Weapons buffs and gave it to Warlock so we still have support abilities in the game.

 

[Great Poster]

I notice these characters all have their supers and wearing legendary & some exotics..that's clearly later activities. With the idea that we'll be living "without light" I'm very hopeful this will be very central to the story, and strategy, early on. I'm assuming there's a time where we're very basic scrubs (a la beginning of D1). You'll be jumping for joy when you get your first green/blue. This is probably why engrams weren't shown. This was a very carefully crafted/controlled demo/intro to the very basics of the game.

Clearly we've only seen a very small glimpse of what's to come. I understand people who gave up on D1 early that are still feeling burned/untrusting of Bungie -- they do kinda deserve it. However, speaking as a fan of B and D1, I'm still really excited. Think back to how different vanilla D1 is to what we have today. I'm fairly certain this game will evolve over time as well. We didn't get the third subclass until year 2, right? Remember when cutscenes couldn't be skipped?

There is a balance to be struck when doing a sequel. You can't just rehash OR throw-away everything. Some things need to be consistent. Halo 2 seemed amazing to me (both graphically and gameplay wise -- I admit, I loved dual wielding)...but the changes were radical enough that they needed to be toned down in Halo 3, but we got 4 player co-op! There is no correct/complete set of what should stay, what should go -- someone is going to not be happy.

There are some personal pet gripes/wish list that I hope get addressed in some way:

Menu interruption...please STOP dropping me out of my menus during in-game transitions. Its the 21st century, the menu should be a threaded OS task and not interruptable by gameplay (even if it kills me)

Enemy variety in world. They kinda started this with the variation on strikes, but I'd really like to see different enemies in areas and have them move and change more in the patrol areas...knowing where the yellow-bar captain is always going to be is so last gen. Make it fresh, make it dynamic. I especially love when two factions start fighting each other.

Weapon building/crafting/upgrading. They do such an awesome job of crafting/modeling weapons and in the end, we only end up using a very small portion (I recall in early days of D1 there was some awesome looking hunter gear that was green). I think a better system would be able to upgrade anything up to legendary status. In the end it may cost a lot, but there is sentimental and aesthetic preferences that players develop. This would also mean a ton of content doesn't get jettisoned. I think the infuse is a crutch to keep their end-game items up to date, but honestly, I'd like for any item be able to be carried forward, even if its very costly.

Greater customization. Weapon & armor ornaments are close, but I think they can do better. I'd like weapon shaders/skins as well for legendary, not just exotic weapons. User-editable shaders, even if its a limited palette would be amazing.

Vehicles. The sparrow is purely for getting around on the map. While useful, I feel there is a missed opportunity. Again, looking back to Halo, there was a variety of vehicles. I think a three man hover tank with side turrets would be awesome, or a two man "helicopter/hovering" attack vehicle...if these new maps are so big, then vehicles shouldn't break the game.

I think this game is going to be amazing. I don't think we've seen anything really surprising, and that's Bungie by design. The best is yet to come. I expect E3 and post E3 to really get the hype ramped up.

 

[Ertai]

So what's going on with locations? Are the current locations (Old Russia, Moon, Venus, Mars, Dreadnaught etc.) not in Destiny 2 and will we only play on the new locations? If so thats a major bummer for me, was expecting and expanded world.

 

[therealminime]

So what's going on with locations? Are the current locations (Old Russia, Moon, Venus, Mars, Dreadnaught etc.) not in Destiny 2 and will we only play on the new locations? If so thats a major bummer for me, was expecting and expanded world.

All the old locations are gone. The only returning planet is Earth but it's a completely new zone.

 

[Jest Chillin]

So what's going on with locations? Are the current locations (Old Russia, Moon, Venus, Mars, Dreadnaught etc.) not in Destiny 2 and will we only play on the new locations? If so thats a major bummer for me, was expecting and expanded world.

It's unclear what, if any, old locations remain. The reveal focused on the new locations but it's unclear whether the new worlds are the only locations. Though the current impression is that they are the only locations.

 

[Ertai]

All the old locations are gone. The only returning planet is Earth but it's a completely new zone.

Wow, that's a letdown for me. Thanks for the reply.

 

[jviggy43]

Your post lacks recognition of the community habits. Whenever possible, the community will always take the path of least resistance. So regardless of balance changes (buff or nerf) the community will always search for the greatest efficiency and by and large adopt it. Resulting in cookie-cutter builds. That's the lack of choice.

You would think, then, that nerfing would be better than buffing right? Except buffing constantly leads to power creep no matter what. Power creep which then requires re-balancing everything in the game. From the open world mobs to the story missions to the side quests. Because you're buffing to balance for the hardest content, which then makes everything else a cakewalk.

It's much easier to create a standard baseline that everything is as close as possible to meeting while retaining unique aspects of classes and making the harder content require more planning, teamwork, and execution to complete. Then the focus of encounter design can be on mechanics rather than trying to counter abilities.

It isn't a strict one way direction. In the case of removing abilities vs balancing other abilities to compete for utility, I argue for the latter. But that doesn't mean you only go down the road of buffing everything, thats ridiculous. You nerf and buff, you see what the community is doing, you see how its effecting the way the game is played, you get feedback, you test. You don't say its either one or the other and then act like you can only do one or the other to nerf or buff all abilities because its easier to do rather than actually understanding that the game will always be an ebb and flow of tweaks and balancing.

And again, my suggestion would give you the most optimal way of varying playstyles because it'd be giving players the opportunity to select actually unique abilities that all offer similar utility as opposed to "all abilities are glorified dps". If anything, I'd argue that route is far more constricting because youre suggesting that everyone gets the same type of abilities or at least very similar (kill all enemies with button press). Thats not giving players choice thats funneling them into different abilities with the same function.

Further, while we cannot be sure, from the one boss we did see of destiny 2, the argument that theyre spending the development time focusing on making the encounter interesting as opposed to giving player's branching avenues for how to approach him, falls on its face considering the strike boss is literally just more of what we got in Destiny 1. A giant bullet sponge who walks around shooting at you (the enivornmental change was cool but not anything that changed the boss's behavior). If the final game comes out and every boss has some crazy encounter design and behvarior mechanics then I'll walk back my comments and agree that thats the direction they were aiming for.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Sorry if none of this is new, but Datto shows off quite a bit here. Skill Trees, lots of gameplay, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10TbML18pMg

Great video, highlights some things I hadn't heard yet. Longer TTK in Crucible, and you take down players with active supers when using elemental primaries matched to their subclass. Nice.

 

[Okami Haundo]

So what's going on with locations? Are the current locations (Old Russia, Moon, Venus, Mars, Dreadnaught etc.) not in Destiny 2 and will we only play on the new locations? If so thats a major bummer for me, was expecting and expanded world.

Only new locations, and I honestly don't know what else we could do at the old locations anymore. I'm ok with a fresh start in that regard.

 

[Ertai]

Only new locations, and I honestly don't know what else we could do at the old locations anymore. I'm ok with a fresh start in that regard.

Well i expected the zones to be redesigned in a way that they'll still feel fresh. Have to agree lorewise it would be a challenge.

 

[emats12]

Can Destiny/Destiny 2 be played pvp only?

I have no desire for the SP/RPG aspect of the game, I only have time to play vs. like a CoD.. is this possible in Destiny? am at a disadvantage gear wise at all if i the rpg stuff?

 

[Z3M0G]

Wait. Can you name your guardian now?

Can we? Or is that PSN/etc name?

Anyone know?