Support NeoGAF

[Jest Chillin]

Technically speaking, several WoW expansions did the same thing.

WoW has slowly improved their graphics over time but I think they've only done one major graphical overhaul. Similarly they've only gone scorched Earth on content once, and that was Cataclysm. Which was 9 years after the vanilla release.

Really the only reason Cata was called an expansion is because there's no way the WoW playerbase would have bought a sequel at $50 and up after having 9 years of $40 and up "expansions."

Really though, the only difference between a Sequel and an Expansion is that a Sequel requires a new disc/client while Expansions are major updates to the current disc/client. But this stuff all gets muddied in the Console sphere due to disc/carts vs. digital and what the console audience is used to.

 

[JohnOfMars]

- only 4v4 crucible
- dudebro story
- no new enemy types (maybe bungie´s holding them back for now)?
- zero graphical leap
- random, uninteresting score

I´m disappointed and severly concerned that this will catch the magic that Destiny 1 did when it launched.

• Too early to comment on story. Trailers are rah-rah, but considering how we lose our powers and the Vanguard leaders bail on us, I think it won't be dudebro all the way through.
• Cabal have new Gladiator enemy and dog enemy. Legionaires have a new Wall shield and Psions have snipers and jetpacks. Minotaurs have rotating shields like Hydras now, and that's just what I've noticed in one strike. I would imagine most of the enemies got a polish or an update.
• Significant improvement in assets, EFFECTS and resolution (4K now), may not be that noticeable on streams
• I like the score, so YMMV on this one

 

[nillapuddin]

.. It's too situational, same as Defender...

That's the point in a squad based game, its part of the strategy of team building

I am the complete opposite, I am VERY disappointed that basically everyone will just have these offensive powers, it takes away the support role from the team layout and that is my favorite position to play

 

[Two Words]

Well I mean they're pretty close. In fact every class has mobile supers now. I'm glad they're dropping Sunsinger. It's too situational, same as Defender. I'm more bummed about that though to be honest. It's fun playing Mayhem Clash and being the fun police.

Every super being some DPS variant is better how?

 

[Jest Chillin]

That's the point in a squad based game, its part of the strategy of team building

I am the complete opposite, I am VERY disappointed that basically everyone will just have these offensive powers, it takes away the support role from the team layout and that is my favorite position to play

Warlocks get Rifts, that have Heath Regen or Weapon Dmg buffs... so they have support. Titans can get a directional shield that can either be smaller for personal use or massive for group use or even to cut off entire paths.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

wish we had a Destiny 2 Preview info OT instead of 3+ threads on comments about things.

 

[Kaiken]

What? One throws burnin Hammers, the other swords.

Edit:
The new striker super is the old super merged with bladedancer super. And the new gunslinger super, well its the old..
Hunter got really The worst treatment

Yeah, I'm very sad about that. Will probably start 2 with Warlock or Titan. Hunter will be the last class I max.

 

[Midas]

I am the complete opposite, I am VERY disappointed that basically everyone will just have these offensive powers, it takes away the support role from the team layout and that is my favorite position to play

I'm with you. It's one of the few things I'm disappointed with. I understand the self res removal though.

 

[gatti-man]

Destiny 1 had a problem where as a Warlock, self-revive sunsinger was the only sensible option to take for high level content, like raids and nightfall. It's annoying that their "fix" for this is to remove Sunsinger. They should make the other classes better, not remove what's good.

I think you're confusing sensible with OP

 

[a harpy]

Well the subclasses represent each element, solar, void, arc, one for each. Dawnblade is solar along with Sunsinger.

This is obvious in retrospect. Thanks!

 

[Trickster]

wish we had a Destiny 2 Preview info OT instead of 3+ threads on comments about things.

Maybe a mod would be willing/able to merge them? Not sure if that's something they do

 

[Jest Chillin]

Every super being some DPS variant is better how?

They moved support to class wide abilities on Titans and Warlocks. Allowing Supers to be used offensively across the board without losing utility. So more people can play the subclass they want to, instead of being forced into a sublcass because the group needs it.

The only one this isn't true for is Hunters, who's utility is presumably still tied to Nightstalker.

 

[Two Words]

I think you're confusing sensible with OP

In my view, fixing OP issues with nerfs is typically the wrong way to go. The issue isn't that Sunsinger was too useful. The issue is that Voidwalker and Stormcaller are too weak. Taking away what is fun is not fun.

 

[MrS]

Mark Noseworthy is project lead. Luke Smith is game director. Is that right? Can anybody in the know tell me who's the "main man" and who's calling the shots on the game? What is Noseworthy's role exactly? Thanks in advance.

 

[Two Words]

They moved support to class wide abilities on Titans and Warlocks. Allowing Supers to be used offensively across the board without losing utility. So more people can play the subclass they want to, instead of being forced into a sublcass because the group needs it.

The only one this isn't true for is Hunters, who's utility is presumably still tied to Nightstalker.

That argument only really works if they don't make the dps supers useless in late game. I Need destiny 1, they were only useful when you needed to quickly kill a few adds. But I'm most cases, you could do that with your weapons.

 

[Shito]

In my view, fixing OP issues with nerfs is typically the wrong way to go. The issue isn't that Sunsinger was too useful. The issue is that Voidwalker and Stormcaller are too weak. Taking away what is fun is not fun.

The sunsinger's self-res allowed quite a few ways to bypass certain mechanics, creating "exploits" of some sorts... it's totally understandable why they would not make them return this time around I think.
Otherwise I agree on your vision on "buff the other things instead of nerfing the good one". ^^

 

[Symbiotx]

Allow me to pitch it in a more deliberate justification of the "Bigass 2"

All that stuff I'm SUPER excited for. But watching these gameplay videos is actually my concern.

• TITAN SKATING IS GONE! WHAT THE HELL!
• And the guns look like they handle like ass still. So much recoil. Why can't guns feel good in Destiny?
• Hand cannons take more than 3 seconds to reload. Not even joking, look:
• 
• The strike is pretty, but boy howdy is it LONG with tons of just running between small encounters. Looks tedious to replay.

So I'm actually also in the wet blanket camp, but for a different reason, lol. Everyone seemed to be enjoying playing it yesterday, so I'll reserve judgment until I get the game in my hands.

They removed skating because people were getting around the maps too quickly. They slowed down the pacing and it looks a lot better in PvP.
Um, have you gotten an Ill Will in Destiny 1? That thing takes like 5 seconds to reload. I'm sure it will vary based on which hand cannon you have and how powerful it is.
Do you want big dungeon crawling strikes or do you want super quick ones to grind? I'd prefer the former.

 

[Jest Chillin]

That argument only really works if they don't make the dps supers useless in late game. I Need destiny 1, they were only useful when you needed to quickly kill a few adds. But I'm most cases, you could do that with your weapons.

They're not useless in the late game though? Adds are a major aspect of encounters and using super chains to clear them so you can get back to the boss is a pretty big thing.

I'm not seeing really how Self Res helps anything in the late game except for allowing a larger margin of error I guess? HMs and Challenge mode stuff it's useless for though.

 

[Symbiotx]

As someone who generally likes multiplayer games better, the PvP footage has me drooling. I think it also has a noticeably different look, and people who think it looks exactly like Destiny 1 need to watch more actual gameplay footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5reeuarp6g4&feature=youtu.be

 

[void666]

So, what do we know about sub classes?

Titan - sentinel/striker/???
Hunter - gunslinger/arcpoledancer/???
Warlock - dawnblade/???/???

The third sub class could be something entirely new. Or have i missed something?
Did they say something about the TTK sub classes?

 

[Kyoufu]

As someone who generally likes multiplayer games better, the PvP footage has me drooling. I think it also has a noticeably different look, and people who think it looks exactly like Destiny 1 need to watch more actual gameplay footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5reeuarp6g4&feature=youtu.be

The lighting is clearly superior. I really like how Destiny 1 looks so this is also pleasing to the eye for me. That art direction goes a long way.

 

[Symbiotx]

The lighting is clearly superior. I really like how Destiny 1 looks so this is also pleasing to the eye for me. That art direction goes a long way.

Yeah, everything looks smoother, almost cartoony at times, but just overall really good looking.

 

[Herp Derpington]

That's the point in a squad based game, its part of the strategy of team building

I am the complete opposite, I am VERY disappointed that basically everyone will just have these offensive powers, it takes away the support role from the team layout and that is my favorite position to play

Not enough people used them though and the numbers bore it out. Defender especially. I'm a defender fan but come on, no one used it. Bungie wants people using the supers in a fun way and the changes are meant to spur the feeling if being in control and being powerful. I do agree that having those two subclasses were useful especially in raids and I'm curious how Bungie will compensate now. I'm gonna give them a chance to show me though before I denounce their changes.

Every super being some DPS variant is better how?

From a fun standpoint, well, yeah. I'm sure they've play tested with the new supers and found it wasn't lacking to not have sunsinger or defender.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

In my view, fixing OP issues with nerfs is typically the wrong way to go. The issue isn't that Sunsinger was too useful. The issue is that Voidwalker and Stormcaller are too weak.

Huh? Voidwalker and stormcaller are not weak though.

Sunsinger self-res breaks mechanics and is also a crutch— get rid of it.

The only one this isn't true for is Hunters, who's utility is presumably still tied to Nightstalker.

I expect one of the reasons they replaced blade dancer with pole dancer is to provide a reason to use it in end-game PvE.

 

[GustyGardens]

From a fun standpoint, well, yeah. I'm sure they've play tested with the new supers and found it wasn't lacking to not have sunsinger or defender.

Defender Titan is the only Titan worth playing. There, I said it.

 

[pantsmith]

- only 4v4 crucible
- dudebro story
- no new enemy types (maybe bungie´s holding them back for now)?
- zero graphical leap
- random, uninteresting score

I´m disappointed and severly concerned that this will catch the magic that Destiny 1 did when it launched.

What does "dudebro story" even mean in the context of Destiny? Cayde is the most approachable, immediately understandle character and he's reincarnated human consciousness seeded within a robot frame. Destiny itself is only remotely dudebro in that killing aliens with fancy guns is awesome, but thats practically universal. Otherwise its pulpy science fiction and fantasy that would make even the dudest of bros embarrassed to talk about it with company...

"Yo bro, you catch that sweet Tolstoy quote Rasputin popped off while we were killing that Droksis, the Kell of Thorns? Sweet!"
"Yeah bro, or how about that thing Ikora said about the undying hive mind of Vex that have transmogrified the planetoid Nessus? Gnarly!"

 

[Lom1lo]

So, what do we know about sub classes?

Titan - sentinel/striker/???
Hunter - gunslinger/arcpoledancer/???
Warlock - dawnblade/???/???

The third sub class could be something entirely new. Or have i missed something?
Did they say something about the TTK sub classes?

I fear we only get two and the third comes with an addon like ttk..

 

[Ryuuga]

Can you imagine if they released a WoW or FFXIV expansion that only gave you access to the newer areas instead of adding onto existing content.

 

[Kyoufu]

In my view, fixing OP issues with nerfs is typically the wrong way to go. The issue isn't that Sunsinger was too useful. The issue is that Voidwalker and Stormcaller are too weak. Taking away what is fun is not fun.

You'd be wrong there. It doesn't matter how powerful the others are, none of them can self-revive so it's not even a contest.

Also Stormcaller is great and would probably be favoured in PVE if it wasn't competing with self-revives.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I expect one of the reasons they replaced blade dancer with pole dancer is to provide a reason to use it in end-game PvE.

What I was referring to is that Warlocks and Titans have utility no matter what sub-class they use as the Warlocks Rifts and Titan Shield are special skills, not Supers. Hunters get a new Shadestep. So there's no known utility to that Shadestep. Leaving Hunters with only having utility on Nightstalker's Super (buffs all incoming damage on the target that's tethered) if we're assuming that Nightstalker isn't changed.

Even if the Arcstriker has some utility, or as you said, use at endgame, Hunters still have it tied to a Subclass.

I main a Hunter and don't mind that too much though. Fits the motif of what Hunters are.

 

[RebornYeti]

I just barely watched the gameplay of the first mission in D2, and I gotta say... I'm really digging the more cinematic feel. I just hope it continues with these kind of set pieces throughout the main storyline (and future expansions). I really liked those cannonball-like drop pods the Cabal were brought in - it is a neat effect.

 

[Dre_G_Writer]

I fear we only get two and the third comes with an addon like ttk..

of course they are, this is activision were talking about

 

[Number45]

I'm a defender fan but come on, no one used it.

Nobody used defender? It may have been less popular in PvP but it's comfortably one of the most used subclasses in higher end PvE encounters.

 

[jviggy43]

I fear we only get two and the third comes with an addon like ttk..

This would literally be ridiculous.

Nobody used defender? It may have been less popular in PvP but it's comfortably one of the most used subclasses in higher end PvE encounters.

Defender titan is essential for end game content and is basically the only titan subclass worth having.

 

[pantsmith]

I fear we only get two and the third comes with an addon like ttk..

Pretty sure I read the others are back, just not featured yet.

 

[GustyGardens]

Nobody used defender? It may have been less popular in PvP but it's comfortably one of the most used subclasses in higher end PvE encounters.

Defender is great in the Crucible. Check out Destiny Fun Police on YouTube. It's a super underrated PvP class.

 

[dengatron]

Defender Titan is the only Titan worth playing. There, I said it.

and thats why sunsinger and defender had to go. i liked striker when the game launched. being "forced" to play a subclass to complete the highest content tiers restricted gameplay. it's MUCH easier to balance sub classes when the support skills are classwide, and the rarely used supers are fun, semi over powered but NOT game breaking mayhem tools. this direction is much better for long term pve design and depth. damage bubble and shielding still exist, they're just not fucking busted anymore.

 

[Defuser]

In my view, fixing OP issues with nerfs is typically the wrong way to go. The issue isn't that Sunsinger was too useful. The issue is that Voidwalker and Stormcaller are too weak. Taking away what is fun is not fun.

No Sunsinger was too useful both in Raid and Trials. Sunsingers dominated Trials with it's self res and strong neutral game back in Taken King. Not to mention all the raid solo made possible due to Sunsinger. And buffing isn't the way either since it will sooner or later lead to a power creep.

 

[Option-]

• Too early to comment on story. Trailers are rah-rah, but considering how we lose our powers and the Vanguard leaders bail on us, I think it won't be dudebro all the way through.
• Cabal have new Gladiator enemy and dog enemy. Legionaires have a new Wall shield and Psions have snipers and jetpacks. Minotaurs have rotating shields like Hydras now, and that's just what I've noticed in one strike. I would imagine most of the enemies got a polish or an update.
• Significant improvement in assets, EFFECTS and resolution (4K now), may not be that noticeable on streams
• I like the score, so YMMV on this one

Yeah, i admit that we know too little but still:

- i hope that the dudebro push is simply due to activison marketing and the actual game will bring back the mysterious space traveling vibe and not rely on loot and pseudo witty superheroes like that hunter. Hopefully we´ll have grimoire intigrated in the game (unlikely) and at least faintly given the illusion that this is a Sci-Fi Epos and not a grind fest.

- with new enemies, i meant new alien races. so not modification but entirely new, gameplay-changing races

- oh didn´t knew that -- but how much of a leap is it when you need extra videos for it? Still, reflections are sick

- the score got worse since activision fired that guy that is responsible for the famous halo theme (starting from taken king), now its generic IMO

 

[jviggy43]

and thats why sunsinger and defender had to go. i liked striker when the game launched. being "forced" to play a subclass to complete the highest content tiers restricted gameplay. it's MUCH easier to balance sub classes when the support skills are classwide, and the rarely used supers are fun, semi over powered but NOT game breaking mayhem tools. this direction is much better for long term pve design and depth. damage bubble and shielding still exist, they're just not fucking busted anymore.

I'd be at ease if what they replaced them with weren't just "kills lots of enemies quickly" like every other subclass in destiny. Those were what made the classes unique in the first place. If every subclass for every character is just "kills enemies quickly", it will be pretty disappointing. I know someone said apparently Warlocks heal? Not sure if thats true or not but those were the types of additions to subclasses I was most looking forward to.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

What I was referring to is that Warlocks and Titans have utility no matter what sub-class they use as the Warlocks Rifts and Titan Shield are special skills, not Supers. Hunters get a new Shadestep. So there's no known utility to that Shadestep.

Yeah, I had the same thought of the shadestep vs puddle buff/cover of the warlocks/titans. Look at the new gunslinger tree though— the more PVE tree has a perk that generates orbs on precision golden gun hits (not kills!), whereas the striker and dawnbreaker don't have an analogue. So the hunters may have the PVE support in their own particular subclass trees appropriate to the subclass and not as the class ability.

 

[JohnOfMars]

They removed skating because people were getting around the maps too quickly. They slowed down the pacing and it looks a lot better in PvP.
Um, have you gotten an Ill Will in Destiny 1? That thing takes like 5 seconds to reload. I'm sure it will vary based on which hand cannon you have and how powerful it is.
Do you want big dungeon crawling strikes or do you want super quick ones to grind? I'd prefer the former.

Yeah, I got an Ill Will. And like everyone else I sharded it. My Zhaouli's Bane is still reloading from back in Year 2. We haven't seen perks yet, but did anyone like Ill Will?

We all had our hopes for Year 2, and mine was more of a Crucible reset. Where guns feel strong and good again. I hope to Lord Almighty that every gun doesn't need Rifled Barrel and Counterbalance to feel good again.

As far as strikes, my point was that there was a lot of just running around. A lot of filler. I don't mind Big, but the strike just seemed mostly empty.

In looking at strikes, I'm judging from my D1 experience. These strikes will be grinded one way or the other, and I prefer them to be pleasant every time. And if D1 is any guide, we'll have this strike for the next 3 years slightly remixed every year or two, lol.

 

[Lom1lo]

Pretty sure I read the others are back, just not featured yet.

I hope so, where did you read this ? would love to have a source for this


Did someone talk about the three exo weapons shown ? They are really bad

The Handcannon: Fireflyperk without headshot
The smg: basically zhalo supercell, but the perk triggers only if you get hit with arc damage
The Auto RIfle: Kinda cool, I mean its a gatling gun^^

 

[Two Words]

They're not useless in the late game though? Adds are a major aspect of encounters and using super chains to clear them so you can get back to the boss is a pretty big thing.

I'm not seeing really how Self Res helps anything in the late game except for allowing a larger margin of error I guess? HMs and Challenge mode stuff it's useless for though.

I spent most of my time on Sunsinger and I was able to do just fine killing adds with guns. Dps supers obviously help with adds, but you weapons are usually more than enough to deal with them. Supers like self-res and titan's bubble offer things that no weapon can replace.

 

[Bizazedo]

Occurs to me, a lot of the dlc comments wouldn't exist if so much stuff didn't look identical to Destiny 1. Identical. And by that I mean stuff like handcannon firing and reloading. Hell, all the old weapons look to just be cut and paste jobs.

Additionally, a lot of the emotes look identical as well.

But, no, we can bring over nothing from Destiny 1.

That and I just don't trust Bungle as much anymore. I acknowledge that is my problem.

 

[JohnOfMars]

- the score got worse since activision fired that guy that is responsible for the famous halo theme (starting from taken king), now its generic IMO

Bungie fired him actually. And I'm glad there's a new team on Destiny's scpre. Marty does great work, but it's all very Marty. The soundtracks to Destiny Rise of Iron and Taken King are VERY good. They won an award just last week for it actually, but to each their own.

 

[GustyGardens]

Yeah, i admit that we know too little but still:

- i hope that the dudebro push is simply due to activison marketing and the actual game will bring back the mysterious space traveling vibe and not rely on loot and pseudo witty superheroes like that hunter. Hopefully we´ll have grimoire intigrated in the game (unlikely) and at least faintly given the illusion that this is a Sci-Fi Epos and not a grind fest.

There's actually in-game Lore button in the character screen, so your wish might come true.

 

[Herp Derpington]

Defender Titan is the only Titan worth playing. There, I said it.

lol I feel ya man. Bubble bro for life. Still, it's moot at this point.

Nobody used defender? It may have been less popular in PvP but it's comfortably one of the most used subclasses in higher end PvE encounters.

Do we have numbers to prove this? I know for a fact that it was the least used class in pvp but haven't seen solid numbers for pve. I guess my comment was more pvp focused but I feel it can extend to pve overall (maybe not raids specifically though).

edit Moreover, the fact that Defender was almost required for end game content seems to me a reason it was nixed. You shouldn't be forced into using a certain sub class for end game content. That's on Bungie though for how they designed the game play and hopefully this time around they've recognized the need to have people be confident in choosing whatever subclass they want for end game content.

 

[LTWood12]

All that stuff I'm SUPER excited for. But watching these gameplay videos is actually my concern.

• TITAN SKATING IS GONE! WHAT THE HELL!
• And the guns look like they handle like ass still. So much recoil. Why can't guns feel good in Destiny?
• Hand cannons take more than 3 seconds to reload. Not even joking, look:
• 
• The strike is pretty, but boy howdy is it LONG with tons of just running between small encounters. Looks tedious to replay.

So I'm actually also in the wet blanket camp, but for a different reason, lol. Everyone seemed to be enjoying playing it yesterday, so I'll reserve judgment until I get the game in my hands.

At least the mag size on that hand cannon is 12.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Not enough people used them though and the numbers bore it out. Defender especially. I'm a defender fan but come on, no one used it. Bungie wants people using the supers in a fun way and the changes are meant to spur the feeling if being in control and being powerful. I do agree that having those two subclasses were useful especially in raids and I'm curious how Bungie will compensate now. I'm gonna give them a chance to show me though before I denounce their changes.



From a fun standpoint, well, yeah. I'm sure they've play tested with the new supers and found it wasn't lacking to not have sunsinger or defender.

Defender was critical in PVE. Not so much in PVP.