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Destiny |OT38| The 0.04% of the 4%
- Thread starter DrDrizzay101
- Start date
Why bother. You already have everything. Isn't one 320 character enough?
No...
I just wanna save those engrams up for when the rest of the exotics are added to the game. 
Kor of Memory
Member
No...
I just wanna save those engrams up for when the rest of the exotics are added to the game.
I hate that I can't clean out old exotics from my vault because they may one day unlock a year 2 blueprint...
At this point I'm more or less done with destiny until we get some new content and they fix the lag. I'll probably still do the occasional nightfall or crucible,but I think the days of me coming on to complete daily bounties or gunsmith test weapons are over.
I must've said this like 5 times now >.>
MythicReclaimer
Member
Does it even matter if you still have one in the vault or whatnot? I thought you only needed to have had one at some point previously to unlock the blueprint.
I'm on Xbawx lol
I'm halfway in already
. Honestly, once we have some exciting content I'll start everything back up. Haven't been playing a lot of Destiny, compared to before.I'm pretty sure this is the case right? You already have year 1 blueprints unlocked, which then link to the year 2 ones - when they are made available.
I think I went through about 20 Three of Coins and finally got an exotic out of one yesterday, from doing level 36 strike playlists. It turned into a 310 Thunderlord. Pretty nice, but I tend not to use machine guns much.
I haven't gotten so much as a purple out of doing level 41 strikes for the past couple of weeks, even with the boost you get from doing multiples and using ToC.
I feel like I'd have better luck just using the Coins buff on Draksis rather than 41 vanguard strikes, even after they "fixed" it.
JohnOfMars
Banned
Was going to try to get this at the top of the page, but thread is moving so slow that'll be Tuesday before it happens, so here goes.
Light: A Complete Paradigm Shift For Year 2
The new Light system succeeds in many ways, but also creates significant issues for the end game, some of which are objective design problems, others are relating to player psychology.
Goals, as stated by Bungie, for decoupling player level from light and adding more gradation were:
 — Players wouldn’t be punished so severely for missing one weapon/armor piece (#forever29).
 — Players would be more willing to play with others at a lower light
 — Players could feel progress more frequently, as opposed to progression only happening 1–2 per expansion (e.g. level 30,31,32).
I would say that the new light system accomplishes each of these objectives, with varying degrees of success. The system is most successful before reaching level 40 and 290 light. Additionally, combined with the new infusion system, it allows players to use more gear, rather than just the raid gear like in Vanilla and TDB. It’s not as clean as Etheric Light, but it’s there.
However, the pre-endgame progression hides and even creates problems that don’t appear until players hit 290ish light. On every screen, both your character and your gear, Light is the biggest number. It puts into the player that Light is the most important stat. Bungie realized this wasn’t necessarily healthy for the community so your character just shows “40”, not your light, even though light is far more important to determining your damage. Look at the Iron Banner/Trials “Power Matters” charts as evidence of this.
Additionally, during leveling drills home that progression is about getting higher and higher light. And at a ramp that is unsustainable. Now this is is an issue in all loot games, but Destiny’s endgame is balanced in a way that doesn’t mitigate that. What do I mean by that?
Two objectives for the Endgame in Destiny, per Luke Smith:
 — A lessened vertical ramp to allow players to diversify
 — Leaning into the Destiny as a loot game, hence more equipment slots
I would say that both of these aspects are a failure. The ramp to 320 is essentially infinite and drops are neither frequent enough nor do they have meaningful differences enough to allow for enjoyable differentiation. Obviously I could expand on that, but I want to focus on where that leaves us: all sense of progression, both deliberately and accidentally fall on the Light system.
Year Two Light Issues:
 — Progression in Year 1 was about Gear that Increased Your Level and Weapons That Changed How You Played
 —  Progression in Year 2 is entirely about Light Level, and at significant cost.
But I haven't even mentioned the biggest problem with making Light the focus.
The Biggest Problem:
Being a 310 vs 311 doesn’t feel any different. Using a 308 Smite vs a 314 Smite is no different. But the balance of the game, the loot systems, the events, the character screen, etc. are all focused on getting that number up.
Year one we were chasing interesting weapons and cool looking armor. Rewards that changed how we played. Year Two is about chasing the number on your name plate.
This is why Year Two feels bad even if it’s superficially better.
Light: A Complete Paradigm Shift For Year 2
The new Light system succeeds in many ways, but also creates significant issues for the end game, some of which are objective design problems, others are relating to player psychology.
Goals, as stated by Bungie, for decoupling player level from light and adding more gradation were:
 — Players wouldn’t be punished so severely for missing one weapon/armor piece (#forever29).
 — Players would be more willing to play with others at a lower light
 — Players could feel progress more frequently, as opposed to progression only happening 1–2 per expansion (e.g. level 30,31,32).
I would say that the new light system accomplishes each of these objectives, with varying degrees of success. The system is most successful before reaching level 40 and 290 light. Additionally, combined with the new infusion system, it allows players to use more gear, rather than just the raid gear like in Vanilla and TDB. It’s not as clean as Etheric Light, but it’s there.
However, the pre-endgame progression hides and even creates problems that don’t appear until players hit 290ish light. On every screen, both your character and your gear, Light is the biggest number. It puts into the player that Light is the most important stat. Bungie realized this wasn’t necessarily healthy for the community so your character just shows “40”, not your light, even though light is far more important to determining your damage. Look at the Iron Banner/Trials “Power Matters” charts as evidence of this.
Additionally, during leveling drills home that progression is about getting higher and higher light. And at a ramp that is unsustainable. Now this is is an issue in all loot games, but Destiny’s endgame is balanced in a way that doesn’t mitigate that. What do I mean by that?
Two objectives for the Endgame in Destiny, per Luke Smith:
 — A lessened vertical ramp to allow players to diversify
 — Leaning into the Destiny as a loot game, hence more equipment slots
I would say that both of these aspects are a failure. The ramp to 320 is essentially infinite and drops are neither frequent enough nor do they have meaningful differences enough to allow for enjoyable differentiation. Obviously I could expand on that, but I want to focus on where that leaves us: all sense of progression, both deliberately and accidentally fall on the Light system.
Year Two Light Issues:
- Drops in Year 2 are now RNG on top of RNG. RNG for the slot you want, then RNG for the light you need. As opposed to year 1 where you only needed to get the right slot to drop.
- The Game is balanced around light, not perks, such that perks are often too minor to make a difference in play. This reduces the viability of horizontal progression.
- Additional equipment slots co-opted into light system remove cosmetic options for players.
- Additional equipment slots co-opted into light system have trivial effects at best (XP bonuses or infrequent orb generation from artifacts), but are mostly detrimental (ever find a 320 ghost?)
-  Character level is largely vestigial at this point. Character level doesn’t impact any player traits other than what gear you can use.
- Light further complicates damage calculations. It now involves 5 factors:
 — Your character’s level
 — Your character’s light level
 — Your weapon’s light level
 — Your target’s level
 — Your target’s light level
This makes it very unclear as to what light level of weapon to use. See this comment for more. -  Additional level caps are introduced instead of just two like in the past (28/30,31/32,33/34, it’s 300/310/320).
-  End game activities are incentivized via Light-based rewards rather than gameplay changing rewards. “Play SRL for a 320 helmet.”
-  Using gear you like or gear better suited for a certain activity can mean going down in light, which may be okay from a damage perspective, but feels bad to the player.
- Gear drops and decrypts at current equipped light, not maximum possible light:
 — Normalized or lower level activities that would actually allow for using lower light gear have gear drop automatically that's low level.
 — Decrypting Exotic engrams, for example while in SRL gear, means getting 290 light gear instead of 310.
 — Gear drops outside of reset and event activities capped at 300, but much more commonly ~280 light. Meaning that to use your new gear will cost you in terms of higher level drops. - The Vault is too small to hold infusion fuel needed to efficiently level up a new good drop.
- Infusion aside, the light system actually makes the pool of usable gear smaller. Because instead of having all gear drop at the same level, gear drops much lower than would be valuable to a player at end game, and there isn't a consistent, painless way to bring everything up.
-  Limits activities for end-game players because only a tiny fraction of activities provide progress potential.
 — Nightfall only gives lower level legendaries
 — No reason to do normal mode raid
 — All other activities lack meaningful difficulty selection with equivalently meaningful loot -  The loot system doesn’t provide drops to satisfy the Light needs for all slots equally. (e.g. no ghost / artifact engram).
-  The Raid reward system was changed from powerful gear to higher light gear, which isn’t near as enjoyable to use or chase compared to Fatebringer, Vision, etc.
 — Progression in Year 1 was about Gear that Increased Your Level and Weapons That Changed How You Played
 —  Progression in Year 2 is entirely about Light Level, and at significant cost.
But I haven't even mentioned the biggest problem with making Light the focus.
The Biggest Problem:
Light progression does not fundamentally change how you play the game.
Being a 310 vs 311 doesn’t feel any different. Using a 308 Smite vs a 314 Smite is no different. But the balance of the game, the loot systems, the events, the character screen, etc. are all focused on getting that number up.
Year one we were chasing interesting weapons and cool looking armor. Rewards that changed how we played. Year Two is about chasing the number on your name plate.
This is why Year Two feels bad even if it’s superficially better.
JohnOfMars
Banned
I'd like to post this on the Destiny subreddit. So I'd love some feedback/criticism.
I tried hard to focus on just the problems the new light system has. And, deliberately, I chose not to offers solutions. That's not my job.
I tried hard to focus on just the problems the new light system has. And, deliberately, I chose not to offers solutions. That's not my job.
TheAquaticApe
Member
That's where r/DTG will get yah. "Well, what are YOUR solutions then?! Huh?! HUH?!"
I tried to get you for a Trials card Friday night but you were in a raid.
Friendly reminder for today's Flawless Raiding Party.
Location: Crotas End (Normal)
Time: 8:30pm CT or when everyone is ready
Participants:
1. Me
2. Jakfu
3. Nicodemic
4. Shiv47
5. Boguester
6. Pandora012
Alts:
1. SpecX
If you haven't already, please add yourself to the following clan:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Detail/1248776
There's always room for alts just in case someone doesn't/can't make it so feel free to add yourself. I'll shoot invites close to run time.
Location: Crotas End (Normal)
Time: 8:30pm CT or when everyone is ready
Participants:
1. Me
2. Jakfu
3. Nicodemic
4. Shiv47
5. Boguester
6. Pandora012
Alts:
1. SpecX
If you haven't already, please add yourself to the following clan:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Detail/1248776
There's always room for alts just in case someone doesn't/can't make it so feel free to add yourself. I'll shoot invites close to run time.
JohnOfMars
Banned
Bummer. Normally I get my Raiding done on Tuesday, but some family stuff came up & I wound up needing Friday. How did Memento turn out? I was... unexcited for that map.
I agree with most of this, with some comments.
The main one is, I think the progression from 0-~290 is pretty excellent. Constant, steady progression from across a wide array of activities. The campaign plus the Taken War and side activities get you there without hassle, and I think that part of the progression update was a big success. It's the endgame where things fall apart.
I actually like the smoother progression of levels vs. the huge jumps in year 1. The punishment for being just a bit under leveled was pretty severe, and I like being able to play higher level activities while "close enough" vs. "this is gonna sting". I can understand not feeling like one level is as big a progression as it could be, though.
My biggest issues with the late game progression is a lack of clarity on some of the gear decisions. I have armor that offers "increased defense when using a void based subclass". I also have armor that "reduces incoming void burn". Which one should I use for the Nightfall, given I'm a Nightstalker? I have no clue, as the game provides zero information about either.
I also found myself using just one or two weapons in each weapon slot, because I don't know what the trade off is in going down a level vs. using one optimized for the activity. As an example, I have a 310 arc sniper, but when playing the daily a few days ago, I wanted void for the Taken witches. But my void sniper is ~280, which causes me to de-level, which hits all of my gear, attack and defense. Which is better? Where's the tipping point? I again have no idea. Most of the time I just equip the thing with the bigger number. I use far less gear in year 2 than in year 1 for this reason.
In year 1 it was easy to get my gear up to level with the rest; in year 2, I haven't been able to upgrade most of my stuff. I just lugged it around hoping for upgrade engrams, which never really come (still have lots of gear <300). I just parked most of that gear in the vault. Not nearly as much variety in the way I play now, as a result.
WavyStretch
Neo Member
Anyone for Trials?
JohnOfMars
Banned
Thanks for the feedback, Ghal. I tried to be measured and not salty in my write-up. The new light system does do some really great things.
You did point out one thing I missed and this is really bad in a loot game:
The light system, and the costs of infusion, really hurt variety.
You did point out one thing I missed and this is really bad in a loot game:
The light system, and the costs of infusion, really hurt variety.
Edvardelis
Member
I'm at light 260 (finally). I have a 190 ghost and a 280 weapon, and am about to cap on Legendary Marks. Should I get the 280 ghost or upgrade a year one Exotic first?
source?
One of the links posted earlier showed a dawning mask and a list of missions.
I do think the Etheric Light method was a better solution at the end of Year 1 than Year 2's infusion system. But Year 2 handles light levels and a wider range of acceptable gear far better than vanilla Destiny did through TDB.
End game is marred by the infusion costs but really it's up to people if they want to chase that. It's not necessary. You can complete all the content (minus hard mode, which is just artificial difficulty), with 290 blues if you want. That's more freedom than the game has ever provided us. If you want to beat Hard Mode you'll need a couple raid drops you'll get through 1-2 normal runs and that's about it. Even then you can just infuse those into your favorite weapons/armor.
It's poorly explained by Bungie, but I think it's still better than what we had with Vanilla through TDB. I find myself using a wider variety of weapons than Y1, including HoW. HoW had a separate problem of still having elemental primaries that limited gear selection and if it didn't have that I would say it was better than Y2.
TheAquaticApe
Member
Two Trips to Mercury. One with Nami and Todd. Then another with Nami and Drizz.
Memento is a bad map. Drizz said it best. The map has no flow and there's too much stuff in the way.
It's also a Rift map and should only be a Rift map.
jmvmadeira
Member
Got one, but ì managed to get this on a farming run.
Speaking of Omnigul. Doing heroic strikes with ramdoms, get to Omnigul on the 1st room she appears. Thetter, proceed to kill her, hoping that ramdoms get the clue (and whipe after). Nope. I get 2 blues, one of the ramdoms gets the grasp.....
Saying I was salty was .... an understatement...
At least I managed to get the chaperone quest done, and now waiting for reset
Matt Frost
Member
No...
I just wanna save those engrams up for when the rest of the exotics are added to the game.
You know that the exotic is locked onto something once you get it? There is no dice roll for whatever may bring. The exotics you own right now only works for the weapons out now.When you get an exotic engram, is already locked into what you will get. Level is what changes depending if you are 310+ or not.
Honestly, my biggest issue with the light/infusion system is that there is a really harsh penalty for using gear that is more fun/appropriate/optimized but lower light. For example, my 310 warlock has a 310 Vanity, 1000-Ys, and Crucible Rocket Launcher. I got the hand cannon to 310 before I realized I prefer Scouts, but now I can't really use my 295 Hung Jury or 290 Tlaloc/Mida in PvE without harsh penalties, so I am stuck using a hand cannon in PvE. And as someone who doesn't raid or do trials, the only way to get my Hung Jury to 310 is to get lucky with a random primary at 300 for infusion then two exotic primaries decrypting to 310, or one exotic at 310 and sacrificing my current hand cannon.
I find it really punishing especially on my first character, where I didn't realize what I should be doing or what I liked best, so I have gear that doesn't have perks that play well with my style, but I can't use other things because the light level is way too low.
And that is another issue I have. I have had my current 300 light chest armor for over a month. The perks are all wrong and basically useless. But in the last month, I haven't gotten a single chest over 290, so even though many of the vendor 280s have better perks, I can't use them because of the harsh drop in light level. Fairly frustrating. My hunter doesn't have the same problem though since I made sure to plan that accordingly, but when I first started infusing my gear 6 months ago, I was a noob and had no idea what I wanted to do.
Not that I don't believe you, but how can this be known/tested? Or has someone from bungie come out and said it?
Honestly, it seems a little off vs my experiences, since I farm every engram on my warlock (3oC), but when I open them on my Hunter 80-90% decrypt into hunter armor, vs 80-90% as warlock armor on my warlock, despite always being obtained first on warlock.
I find it really punishing especially on my first character, where I didn't realize what I should be doing or what I liked best, so I have gear that doesn't have perks that play well with my style, but I can't use other things because the light level is way too low.
And that is another issue I have. I have had my current 300 light chest armor for over a month. The perks are all wrong and basically useless. But in the last month, I haven't gotten a single chest over 290, so even though many of the vendor 280s have better perks, I can't use them because of the harsh drop in light level. Fairly frustrating. My hunter doesn't have the same problem though since I made sure to plan that accordingly, but when I first started infusing my gear 6 months ago, I was a noob and had no idea what I wanted to do.
Not that I don't believe you, but how can this be known/tested? Or has someone from bungie come out and said it?
Honestly, it seems a little off vs my experiences, since I farm every engram on my warlock (3oC), but when I open them on my Hunter 80-90% decrypt into hunter armor, vs 80-90% as warlock armor on my warlock, despite always being obtained first on warlock.
This isn't true. People saved engrams before the last patch and got new exotics from them.
See this is the problem I was talking about. Light level is a perceived hindrance, but it actually isn't one.
In your example you say going from a 310 HC to a 290 scout is a harsh penalty. You then say you don't raid or do trials. In PvE this is doing to equate to a two light level drop. A couple percentage points less damage in content that is 290 or above. What's the only content 290 or above? The raid and trials/IB. Even then a couple percentage points in PvE is negligable. It's like one extra bullet from a 20 round Scout clip. And just playing IB with a 280 MIDA I can tell you it doesn't make a difference there either.
It's a poorly explained system that leads to perceived problems that are actually non issues.
igordennis
Member
I don't know. Drizz is probably right, but I kind of enjoyed the map. walking into the open area from the bottom of the map was fun. Easier to snipe the snipers who expect you to be coming from the sniper perch. Then you just defend the open area with your team and you have the advantage.
Not true at all since I got Twilight Garrison within minutes after downloading the patch that added it to the game from an exotic chest engram I had saved up for that very reason.
Yep. I was one of those folks too.
TheAquaticApe
Member
Senpai Todd likes a challenge.
xVaalbarAx
Member
You have to got to be kidding me? lol
Ugh not more annoying masks with no perks that take up way too much room in the vault
rasengan1337
Member
cheese run FTW!
xVaalbarAx
Member
Year 1: The Year of the Ghorn
Year 2: The Year of the Masks
Disclaimer: some must be bought with Silver
Found this on destiny reddit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiGeuEWkacc&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiGeuEWkacc&feature=youtu.be
igordennis
Member
How does that even happen lmao. Destiny physics is something else
The guy who gets hit is named flying frog. The craziest stuff happens in destiny.
Or the guardian got hit right as they were dying by a void grenade, take your pick.
Get out of here with your science and reasonable explanations. This was the elusive john cena subclass.
Strangelove77
Member
ASTROCYTE VERSE WHERE ARE YOUUUUUUUUUUU
xVaalbarAx
Member
Or he was just a god like professional wrestler and hit him with a lariat.
I'll be surprised if this one gets released tbh, I don't see how it won't be broken.
It looks so cool though, I need it.
Shinobu's Vow looks broken too. Skip grenade already got buffed a few patches back and this improves it even more and gives you a second one. I don't want to see a Bladedancer resurgence. There's already too many of them out there.