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[Spring Drive]

Isn't that Kareem Hardison aka Dewayne Wayne of A Different World fame?

Yes

 

[Vicetrailia]

That's kind of mean to say and not his statement. So he is not allowed to say "I don't care about the gender or skin colour of the character" because he's white?

He says that already satisfied/not concerned, while trying to silence using language like forced quotas. What do you think the impact is to one who calls for more diversity? It's not a good look.

 

[IronicSonic]

This cannot be stated enough. Games are fictional, and this title is not meant to depict reality or historical events. In my opinion, creators of such works should be free to decide themselves what their characters look like and how they behave, while the consumer can decide if he likes that outcome. Simply saying "there's not enough diversity" without any reason apart from "for the sake of diversity" appears rather odd.
.

Mass-media reproduces and creates realities at the same time. This mainly affects children who grow up learning that certain sex, race or beliefs are tied to certain roles. Classic sociology.

When many of these children grow up, they think, as instance "there is nothing wrong with only white men star in a videogame" or "why people are pushing diversity agendas" because they learned it that way.

 

[Doukou]

Quick recap on Heavy Rain junkyard guy? I don't particularly remember anything apart from him being a bad dude.

Personality wise he was generic villian, his voice was a bit weird and you could argue about how he was a car thief.
A lot of it stems from his physical features.
Edit it was another gaf page.

 

[lightskintwin]

David Cage probably walked around downtown a bunch during the day and definitely did not see even 64% of people being black. He likely saw no one when wandering through famous abandoned buildings.

I don't have statistical data about how many people work in Detroit but don't live there (although I'm sure it exists) and there likely are not statistics about how many people visit in the evening from outside the city. However census data does not portray an accurate picture of the diversity you actually see downtown, due to most of them not living downtown. I know this because I have eyes and go downtown quite often.

I have eyes and have been to Downtown Detroit just like I live in Metro Atlanta and go to Downtown Atlanta, and my experience is people tend to navigate to see what they want to see out of a city regardless of the demographics.

 

[LionPride]

While I agree it should be more diverse, is it fair to not play a game because most of the cast is white? It wouldn't be fair to not play a game if most of the cast were black.

I mean, seeing that most games feature white guys a lot, like a fucking lot and not a lot of games with mostly black people, you won't ever really run into that issue now will you

 

[impact]

While I agree it should be more diverse, is it fair to not play a game because most of the cast is white? It wouldn't be fair to not play a game if most of the cast were black.

I mean, being real, we wouldn't even have a thread about that. It'd be locked in seconds.

I'm not sure why this wasn't tbh

 

[Shiggy]

While I agree it should be more diverse, is it fair to not play a game because most of the cast is white? It wouldn't be fair to not play a game if most of the cast were black.

Both should be fine.

Seems perfectly fair when most games star white dudes already.

It should be fine regardless of what other games look like.

He says that already satisfied/not concerned, while trying to silence using language like forced quotas. What do you think the impact is to one who calls for more diversity?

The person quoted did not even imply he's opposed to diversity, he rather indicated - as far as I understood - that the discussion is a bit artificial. When he's one of the few in this topic voicing an, on this board certainly unpopular opinion, simply shrugging it off as an attempt to silence others, is rather unfair. Though some other replies were even worse.

Mass-media reproduces and creates realities at the same time. This mainly affects children who grow up learning that certain sex, race or beliefs are tied to certain roles. Classic sociology.

When many of these children grow up, they think, as instance "there is nothing wrong with only white men star in a videogame" or "why people are pushing diversity agendas" because they learned it that way.

I guess it's even more related to education. My childhood shows did not portray any successful females or blacks. Yet dad's who stay at home to take care of kids or working together with other ethnicities is completely normal for me.
I very much believe that lesser educated people may think differently. But I don't think the main issue lies in fictional works like this game.



Anyway, I'm glad this is turning into a serious discussion after some very obscure replies.

 

[Balb]

I mean, being real, we wouldn't even have a thread about that. It'd be locked in seconds.

I'm not sure why this wasn't tbh

What's wrong with the premise of this thread?

 

[JustenP88]

So, who did David Cage murder? I'm not too familiar with his career aside from Heavy Rain (which I thought was decent), but I've gotta assume he was responsible for some sort of atrocity given how people here talk about him.

 

[LiK]

FYI, Indigo Prophecy had one playable main character who was black and he was a cool character. He was also in a relationship with a white woman. Not sure why Heavy Rain seems to be the only game OP remembers that Cage has done concerning a black character.

 

[Needlecrash]

You know sometimes I get a little sick and tired of these diversity for the sake of diversity threads. It gets annoying that every time I go on a forum you see people complain that there is a lack of something in a game so they're going to veto it. When people start making their decisions based around the sexuality, race or gender of a character, it's just as bad as racism for me because it's kind of a like a reverse racism, like people actually look at a title and think "Ugh, not enough black people in this game, I think I'll pass," or things like "Wow, nobody is gay here, think I'm going to leave it." This whole thing with the female Link like they're expecting Nintendo to drop a male character that has been established for years and suddenly adopt a Mass Effect type system allowing players to choose if Link is a male or female. Then do we choose whether he's black, white or Asian? Within the context of Asian, are we talking oriental or middle eastern? Can we choose whether he's gay or straight? Can we choose what gender he actual identifies as and if he is pansexual or a-sexual? It's like the whole Nadine thing in Uncharted all over again even though Kratos is a caucasian character that's had two black actors play him.

Needlessly to say right now people have probably read that and are outraged, but I'd ask before replying to my comment, you take a moment to read this next section.

I am a stereotypical male white (British if you want to know) person and I don't judge games based on any kind of the things we are discussing here and I want to stress that I agree with Shawn Layden who rightly said that we need to show a little more love to everyone right now, not just for the LGBT community after what happened in Orlando, but people being discriminated against for whatever reason the aggressors choose. I want to be clear that I do not discriminate unfairly against anyone because of their religion, age, sex, race or perceived gender.

I take a look at some of the games I really love and I see that there is already diversity within that space. I'm currently playing through Primal on PlayStation 4 which is a PlayStation 2 title from 2003 that has a female lead character and is very much about a feminine heroine. The best Grand Theft Auto game I ever played was San Andreas and I loved CJ and the whole Grove crew. (I live in a place called Rose Grove and the dick head chavs here identify as the Grove crew so that hit close to home.) I could relate to him as a character, I rooted for him and I thought he made a great lead character for that story. I also preferred Lamar and Franklin to Michael and Trevor in Grand Theft Auto V which might come as a surprise to some.

I played Mortal Kombat X when it came out and I was surprised to learn that Kung Jin was gay. I didn't suddenly hate him as a character but I thought it was an interesting development that fleshed out his character and gave more reason as to why he passed on joining the monks of the Wu Shi academy. When I played Starhawk, I had a great time and never for a moment thought that I wanted Emmett to be anything other than who he is. Infact one of my favourite games of all time is Shadow Man and that's a title about a black super hero protagonist based on a Valiant comic. I take a look at Horizon Zero Dawn and I'm all down for that because I love the look of the game and I think Aloy is a great character, the same way I love Kat in Gravity Rush. Okay, Kat is from time to time over sexualised somewhat but it doesn't change the fact that she kicks ass and I really enjoying playing as her.

Prototype 2 and The Walking Dead are two more examples of games with black protagonists that I really enjoyed playing. I played a lot of Tomb Raider and Blood Rayne throughout my life because they had really strong female leads which I very much enjoyed. Aveline in Assassins Creed on Vita was a black female character which again, was a great game that I enjoyed.

I'm the stereotype that people tend to associate with the reason why there isn't diversity in games. I would argue that there is diversity in games and it is growing. We can see more games about black people, asian people, gay people or people from all walks of life. I'm going to love them and enjoy them no matter what. While I feel there is a responsibility on the developers side to be creating these games, I think people can be too vocal or judgmental about games where they don't have the level of diversity that they want and some times it ruins the fun of games for me. Too many times we've squabbled over these topics and ignored all the good stuff in front of us.

If you really consider this game to be another white washed project with nothing to offer you based on the colour of people alone, then fine. I'd argue you're going to potentially miss out on what looks like a great game because you have personally made colour an issue. If that is your mantra or your feelings then fair enough, we can agree to disagree. But I put it to you that if Kara was a black female protagonist who was a Lesbian I would still love the game because those details don't affect my opinion like that. I want to experience a great game with great characters and great game play. I'm happy to criticise a character for their flaws, I'm happy to say when a character is literally just a bad character. Like the stereotypical black woman in Deus Ex Human Revolution, that seemed to me like a bad character made in poor taste. However, I'm not about to write a game off because it's too 'white.' I feel that it's almost a little racist to imply that you're going to miss this game because the characters are white. Racism goes all ways, and it's not just against black people or asian people.

All I'm saying, if anything, is that I fit a stereotype that I don't feel that I am a part of. I'm going to give this game a chance and allow myself the opportunity to have a great time or be disappointed. I admit my opinion might not count for much because I haven't personally been to Detroit or the USA, but I don't feel that should stop me having an opinion on this game or feel as though it is too white, black, asian or what ever to enjoy. Let's spread some love people. Peace.



I don't remember people complaining too much about Martin Lawrence in Black Knight. Just saying.

Thank you. As long as the game is good, then that's all that matters. Diversity for diversity sake is just stupid.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

So, who did David Cage murder? I'm not too familiar with his career aside from Heavy Rain (which I thought was decent), but I've gotta assume he was responsible for some sort of atrocity given how people here talk about him.

He killed Woolie Madden live on stream.

Also if you've ever tried to replay Heavy Rain once you'll see how terrible it really is. Goes from decent to an embarrassment.

 

[LionPride]

FYI, Indigo Prophecy had one playable main character who was black and he was a cool character. He was also in a relationship with a white woman. Not sure why Heavy Rain seems to be the only game OP remembers that Cage has done concerning a black character.

Do that shit poorly and people remember

 

[Figboy79]

One of the things that drives me crazy in regards to using the "writing for another gender/ethnicity is hard!!" excuse is that, if your game is set in America, you don't have to stretch too far to write a character of a different ethnicity.

There seems to be this otherness that some people assume about minorities that makes them think it's going to be extremely difficult to write for a minority. American culture is American culture, regardless of your ethnicity. There are whites and asians that listen to Hip Hop, for example, and blacks and latinos who listen to rock and country. There are whites that grew up in ghettos that talk in slang, and there are blacks that grew up in middle class suburbs and talk in that dialect.

Living in a diverse city like Los Angeles for the past 18 years, I've met a whole lot of people from a whole lot of backgrounds. Some people are definitely migrants from other countries, but a whole damn lot of them are born and bred here in America, and have grown up in the same American culture that white people have. If you are writing a story set in America, I don't understand the whole bewilderment about how to "write for a black person," or "write for an asian or middle eastern person." When I sit down at my computer to write a character, and that character happens to be white, I don't whip out my episodes of Seinfeld or Friends to try and "get their vast and unique culture" down. I just write a character. Unless my minority characters are actually from another country, I don't beat myself over the head with nailing their dialect. From my experiences, Americans act like Americans, regardless of ethnicity. You don't have to untangle the mysteries of the black mind to write a black character. Just write the fucking character.

As I said a zillion times, I used to default to white characters 99.9% of the time when I'd sit down to draw and create new comics. I'm a black dude, but because the vast majority of the entertainment I consumed starred white males, that's who I'd create because, for millions of kids growing up in America, the white male is the defacto standard. When someone says "Doctor," "Lawyer," "Police Officer," "Astronaut," "Superhero," I guarantee that for millions of people, a white male pops into their head. If I say, "Thug," "Gangster," "Criminal," the vast majority of people will picture either a black or latino male. Those are the types of almost reflexive associations we make with words, so often, when a creator sits down to create, and he/she says, "I'm going to write about a police officer who gets mixed up in organized crime," they're going to picture a white male.

Once I realized how much I defaulted to the white male protagonist, it broadened my thinking, and I started asking myself, "Why does this character HAVE to be white?" The answer is almost always, "Well, they don't have to be," then the question moves on to, "What ethnicity should they be then?" and it opens up the door to create a character that is different and unique visually, as well as from whatever background I'm going to give them (Happy, Tragic, etc). I still create plenty of white characters in my stories and comics, but now they aren't the only characters I create.

Funny anecdote. I was riding on the bus one day, and I'm sitting in my seat, and these two tall, well built young black guys, wearing sports jersey's and shorts, come walking to the back of the bus. They're laughing and joking about something, and I'm listening to my music. Then, I catch snatches of their conversation, and they're talking about fucking Harry Potter, making jokes about Knight Bus and shit. It would have been so easy to characterize them as the stereotypical black youth, who's only interests lie in hip hop and basketball.

I've been a nerd my entire life. I've loved everything from Star Wars, to Doctor Who, to Dungeons and Dragons and comic books since I was kid. Been a gamer since '85, and haven't stopped yet. Many of my family and friends are exactly the same way. The shit we nerd out about and talk about when we hang out, or over Facebook, is no different than what people associate with white male nerds. Many of the women in my life (including my wife), are huge into video games and comic books as well. If someone were to describe my interests, you'd almost automatically assume I was a white boy, or maybe a Japanese Otaku. So why is it so hard for a white writer to write a minority character? Protip: It's not. That's not a good excuse. Whether you set your book in the suburbs or the ghetto, you'll probably have to do research anyway. That research will probably lead you to the conclusion that people in America don't really behave that differently from one another. Not enough to make it easier to just write them out of the story because you're too close minded to consider that your perspective and their perspective aren't that off from one another.

So no, I don't accept that as a reason to exclude creating minority characters as anything more than background dressing.

 

[Boney]

Quantic Dream hired writers for this game.

It doesn't show

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

While I agree it should be more diverse, is it fair to not play a game because most of the cast is white? It wouldn't be fair to not play a game if most of the cast were black.

Fair in what sense? Anyone can decide to play or not play a game for whatever arbitrary reason they like.

 

[LionPride]

People wanna act like writing minorities is hard. Like we ain't people who just go through life like white people. Like we are other when it comes to life. Like you can't write someone and put literally any race as that specific character if you wanted to. Now of course we go through shit that white people don't, but it's not as if you couldn't ask how those experiences made us feel and write a charcter who is angry because something happened to them.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Anyone who thinks that diversity and representation of anyone who's not white doesn't matter should probably read this.

I touched on this in my other post, but I'm curious as to what people think of the psychology behind this:


When I was younger, from about age 5-24, when I would sit down and create my cast of characters for my various comics and video games (I used to do a lot more coding when I was in my late teens, early 20's, trying my hand at developing games myself), they would almost always be a white male, or a white female. In many of my concepts, I even had a single minority character; either a black guy, or a black woman, or an asian guy, or an asian woman, etc, etc.

I'm a black man. Why is it that, even as a black male creator of fiction, I would almost exclusively default to white when creating my comics? Why do some of you think that is? I'm about 100% sure I know the answer to this question, but I'd like to hear an outside perspective on this.

Minorities of all types are often told to create the diversity themselves if that's what they want to see, but there is a real perception problem that has permeated not just whites in America, but minorities as well. The history of this country has done such a fantastic job of beating minorities over the head with how inferior to whites they are, that many minorities are ashamed of being a minority, and downplay their non-white lineage, and talk up any non-minority heritage they may have, and it's a shame. I've seen people do this on a regular basis, and it's very sad.

I've mentioned this numerous times before, but growing up, in school, I wasn't allowed to be Batman, or Superman, or The Flash or Spider-Man when playing superheroes with my white classmates. They made me play as the bad guy criminal. Not even Lex Luthor, or Zod, or The Joker. Their reasoning? Because I wasn't white. "Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are white, so you can't play as them." That's not even exaggeration on my part. My "peers" and classmates had already learned, at that young of an age, the value of being white in America.

Growing up as a little mixed boy (I'm Black and Samoan), I'd turn on the TV, and what did I see? White heroes and villains, and the occasional sidekick and supporting character that was a minority, often played up as incompetent, the comic relief, or the person the white male hero got to save each episode.

GI Joe was one of the few cartoons of the 80's that I grew up with where there was a diverse cast of badasses that got to be heroes and save the day. From He-Man to MASK, there wasn't much for non-whites to latch onto. Superhero comics and shows rarely if ever focused on characters like Black Panther, Black Lightning, John Stewart Green Lantern, Luke Cage, or any of the other non-white/non-black minorities in fiction. I had no idea characters like those existed.

Not to mention that I grew up fairly poor, with no comic book shops, so I had to rely on the books that the nearby Walgreens or grocery store stocked; mainly Archie comics and Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman. The affect this had on a young black boys mind was that I grew up thinking that there weren't any relevant black heroes to look up to. You had athletes, but I was never into sports. You had rappers, but I was never into hip hop. When you turned on the TV, whenever a black character was present, they were in trouble. Either a criminal or a fool. Seeing that reinforcement of ineptitude day in and day out, while seeing the competency and skillfullness of white males had a profoundly damaging effect on my own sense of self worth. The sad thing is that I am not alone.

That video of those little black kids talking about the differences between the white dolls and the black dolls is heartbreaking, but I lived that.

White kids seeing white heroes on the screen (whether video games, tv, or film) has a very different effect on their developing brains as Black kids seeing white heroes on the screen. That's just a fact.

Black kids seeing minorities portrayed stereotypically and negatively on the screen, has a very different effect on their developing brains as White kids seeing minorities portrayed stereotypically and negatively on the screen. Again, that's a fact.

The importance of seeing yourself represented in positive ways can't be understated. Whites in America have the luxury of having such a diverse pool of portrayals to pull from, that the occasional negative ones can be brushed off. Minorities don't have that luxury. It's also worth noting that the few minorities that are in creative positions in film, television, and the gaming industry, have also grown up in a country that has, for hundreds of years, portrayed their people as less than. It's why you have people like Bill Cosby pre-rape scandal, sitting up on his high horse telling black men to "pull their damn pants up." For generations, we've been told we aren't shit, and then the few that have actually been able to make it and live successful influential lives often look back at that struggling period of their life with disdain, and the people that are still living in that struggle with disdain as well. "If I could do it, you can too!" is one of the most infuriating things minorities are often told when we get too vocal about systemic racism.

The Stardew Valley developer most certainly had no ill intent when creating his characters for his game. He included as much diversity as he felt compelled to do, for whatever reasons he felt compelled to do it. I don't think this thread is about trashing Stardew Valley or the developer. It's just another discussion on the lack of inclusiveness in gaming.

But as usual, the discussion has gotten people overly defensive and sensitive. People have to come up with reasons and excuses as to why X developer didn't include Y minority/gender in their game, instead of just acknowledging that being more open in your creative decisions is a good thing. It's not pandering. It's not kowtowing to "social justice warriors," it's not force feeding diversity and political correctness on anyone. It's a developer/writer/artist, etc, actively evaluating his or her work and saying, "You know, there's no good reason why this person can't be Black, or Mexican, or Asian, or Middle Eastern," etc, etc.

As I said before, I always defaulted to white when creating my characters for my comics and stories. Why was that? That's the question I asked myself after some deep introspection. Now, when I sit down to draw a new character, I don't always see a 30 something white male with dark hair grinning up at me with pearly white teeth. It's made me a better creator, and has also allowed me to expand my drawing palette with differing facial features and structures. I just can't see how that's a negative. I gladly welcome diversity in my work. I'm sure many developers, once made aware of these incredibly easy and understandable oversights, will think twice. As I mentioned in another post, it happened when Anita Sarkisian started her series about women and tropes in gaming, and the gaming landscape has started to change significantly. Why can't the same be done for minorities (of all ethnicities, not just blacks)?

Nothing is being taken from white heroes. It's not even a knock against white heroes. It's letting minorities be a part of the heroics as well. It's letting them get to be Spider-Man and Superman every once in a while on the playground. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[Asriel]

Thank you. As long as the game is good, then that's all that matters. Diversity for diversity sake is just stupid.

What's so stupid for adding diversity to a video game?

Please do tell.

 

[Trojita]

Have we even seen real gameplay of the game yet outside of that spliced together trailer? I feel like we are rushing ahead of ourselves. A discussion on this would be interesting later on, but right now the declaration in the OP is based on a glimpse of less than .01% of a game.

 

[LifEndz]

As an African Anerican, I definitely have a shield of sorts that goes up anytime a black character or black culture is depicted...and this isn't just limited to video games. Too often it's either Bullet from FFVII, or someone speaking broken English in a cadence I describe as verbal blackface. I felt the shield go up when they unveiled the Watch Dog protagonist was black. Immediately after the initial excitement of a black playable character I begin to wonder how much of a stereotype will he be. It's also why I'm equally excited and anxious about what Mafia 3 is doing.

Anyway, Junk yard Jack was definitely at the extreme end of what I don't want to see, but the situation won't get better if we don't Devs a second or third chance.

 

[SimplyOlivia]

We've had two trailers one of the trailers show numerous black people. This website always makes mountains out of molehills, hell I've only been here for like 2 weeks and there's been so many threads about petty nonsense it's baffling.

In the first demo from 2015 there are countless black NPCs as well as a front and centre black android, an Asian android also gets a front and centre appearance on the trailer and a black female android gets a front and centre shot. As well as numours black people walking in the background while Kara is talking.

In this new Trailer from E3 the trailer is focusing on one of the main characters which has no black person insight HOWEVER the police/swat are covered from head to toe in gear so you can't tell what race or sex they are and the guy holding the girl hostage is white. So unless you want the guy holding the hostage to be a typical black guy then I don't see how they could get a visible black guy to appear in this gameplay trailer.

There is one more character left to be revealed who may or may not be a black character.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. 1. It's a video game, 2. It's set in a fictitious version of Detroit and 3. black people aren't being neglected because as stated earlier there are countless black android and real humans wandering the streets of Detroit in the 2015 trailer.

 

[Spring Drive]

Personality wise he was generic villian, his voice was a bit weird and you could argue about how he was a car thief.
A lot of it stems from his physical features.
Edit it was another gaf page.

He's not that bad after all, considering that guy (or even

Spoiler

the Origami Killer himself

):

 

[RichiRamjag]

Seems perfectly fair when most games star white dudes already.

I am a black guy(well black and rican) and I agree, but as we move forward, we have to push for equality all around. It can't be "oh, we've been dealing with it, your turn". We can push to see more representation without snubbing other works. The conversation is still important to have on all sides though.

 

[Afrikan]

whatever the case.... I'm happy that this game is getting more attention. Looking forward to it.

 

[somecrazymember]

I thought the title said Shite, but either way I agree.

i lol'd

 

[lightskintwin]

I mean, being real, we wouldn't even have a thread about that. It'd be locked in seconds.

I'm not sure why this wasn't tbh

I think this thread maybe a bit premature without actually seeing more of the game to pass accurate judgement. However I do think there's legitimate criticism to be had if the game's settling is reimagined as a futuristic white majority city in order to weirdly justify another primary white character driven narrative. It doesn't mean the game shouldn't exist, or that the story will be bad. Hell it's possible they can both be masterpieces. But it will show yet another example the lengths people will go through to maintain the status quo. At that point, why even use Detroit as a setting? He could simply call it Become Human, and give the city a fictional name, but by attaching a real location to it comes with some baggage. Based on what little footage we've seen so far and the major characters revealed, perhaps a more accurate title should've been "Detroit Becomes White". LOL

I'm still going to play it though and I would much rather save any valid praise or criticism until then.

 

[mrqs]

I say all of this knowing that there's still one more character that has yet to be revealed and there's so much story we don't know. [/URL]

How do you know it will be three characters? At E3 2016 David Cage didn't say how many it would be, just said they are showing two of them right now. Could be only those two, or many more.

Don't know where are you gettin' your info.

 

[Vlodril]

I'm amazed they let David Cage keep making games...

its his studio. and it makes profitable games. His latest games at least all have sold more an a million. Fuck that guy right..

Also he is probably the only one that does triple A adventure games anymore (and quantic dream are a graphical powerhouse people somehow keep getting surprised by that).

I am one of the people that actually likes his games (some more than others) and i am always mystified about the hate he attracts (even if you don't like his writing his games arent that far away writing wise from other adventures or any genre of games so not sure what the issue is).

 

[Figboy79]

Anyone who thinks that diversity and representation of anyone who's not white doesn't matter should probably read this.

Oh snap! I remember that post. I forgot what thread I made it in. lol. Thanks for re-quoting, I really appreciate it.

 

[starblade]

Anyone who thinks that diversity and representation of anyone who's not white doesn't matter should probably read this.

As a a black man this post encompasses everything and more of what I've always wanted to say. I wish more people would read something like this and come away with a better understanding of why something like this would be an issue.

Don't know too much about the game and forgive my lack of knowledge, but Detroit is 82% black and it is (for lack of a better term) one of the "black capitals" of America. It would be disingenuous and grossly ignorant to not have some black faces as the main characters. That would be akin to having a game set in Montepelier, Vertmont and having the two or three main characters be POC. Maybe then people would "get it".

 

[IronicSonic]

One of the things that drives me crazy in regards to using the "writing for another gender/ethnicity is hard!!" excuse is that, if your game is set in America, you don't have to stretch too far to write a character of a different ethnicity.

There seems to be this otherness that some people assume about minorities that makes them think it's going to be extremely difficult to write for a minority. American culture is American culture, regardless of your ethnicity. There are whites and asians that listen to Hip Hop, for example, and blacks and latinos who listen to rock and country. There are whites that grew up in ghettos that talk in slang, and there are blacks that grew up in middle class suburbs and talk in that dialect.

Living in a diverse city like Los Angeles for the past 18 years, I've met a whole lot of people from a whole lot of backgrounds. Some people are definitely migrants from other countries, but a whole damn lot of them are born and bred here in America, and have grown up in the same American culture that white people have. If you are writing a story set in America, I don't understand the whole bewilderment about how to "write for a black person," or "write for an asian or middle eastern person." When I sit down at my computer to write a character, and that character happens to be white, I don't whip out my episodes of Seinfeld or Friends to try and "get their vast and unique culture" down. I just write a character. Unless my minority characters are actually from another country, I don't beat myself over the head with nailing their dialect. From my experiences, Americans act like Americans, regardless of ethnicity. You don't have to untangle the mysteries of the black mind to write a black character. Just write the fucking character.

As I said a zillion times, I used to default to white characters 99.9% of the time when I'd sit down to draw and create new comics. I'm a black dude, but because the vast majority of the entertainment I consumed starred white males, that's who I'd create because, for millions of kids growing up in America, the white male is the defacto standard. When someone says "Doctor," "Lawyer," "Police Officer," "Astronaut," "Superhero," I guarantee that for millions of people, a white male pops into their head. If I say, "Thug," "Gangster," "Criminal," the vast majority of people will picture either a black or latino male. Those are the types of almost reflexive associations we make with words, so often, when a creator sits down to create, and he/she says, "I'm going to write about a police officer who gets mixed up in organized crime," they're going to picture a white male.

Once I realized how much I defaulted to the white male protagonist, it broadened my thinking, and I started asking myself, "Why does this character HAVE to be white?" The answer is almost always, "Well, they don't have to be," then the question moves on to, "What ethnicity should they be then?" and it opens up the door to create a character that is different and unique visually, as well as from whatever background I'm going to give them (Happy, Tragic, etc). I still create plenty of white characters in my stories and comics, but now they aren't the only characters I create.

Funny anecdote. I was riding on the bus one day, and I'm sitting in my seat, and these two tall, well built young black guys, wearing sports jersey's and shorts, come walking to the back of the bus. They're laughing and joking about something, and I'm listening to my music. Then, I catch snatches of their conversation, and they're talking about fucking Harry Potter, making jokes about Knight Bus and shit. It would have been so easy to characterize them as the stereotypical black youth, who's only interests lie in hip hop and basketball.

I've been a nerd my entire life. I've loved everything from Star Wars, to Doctor Who, to Dungeons and Dragons and comic books since I was kid. Been a gamer since '85, and haven't stopped yet. Many of my family and friends are exactly the same way. The shit we nerd out about and talk about when we hang out, or over Facebook, is no different than what people associate with white male nerds. Many of the women in my life (including my wife), are huge into video games and comic books as well. If someone were to describe my interests, you'd almost automatically assume I was a white boy, or maybe a Japanese Otaku. So why is it so hard for a white writer to write a minority character? Protip: It's not. That's not a good excuse. Whether you set your book in the suburbs or the ghetto, you'll probably have to do research anyway. That research will probably lead you to the conclusion that people in America don't really behave that differently from one another. Not enough to make it easier to just write them out of the story because you're too close minded to consider that your perspective and their perspective aren't that off from one another.

So no, I don't accept that as a reason to exclude creating minority characters as anything more than background dressing.

Such a valuable post

 

[Slaythe]

The two main characters so far have been androids, so it's not like the demographic of Detroit have any relevance.

We have seen black humans in every trailer so far.

It's possible we'll get to play a human black character. Wait and see.

 

[BlastProcessing]

While I agree it should be more diverse, is it fair to not play a game because most of the cast is white? It wouldn't be fair to not play a game if most of the cast were black.

When you name your game Detroit and it's a sci-fi story that deals with prejudice and inclusion, I think it's fair to hold it up to this type of scrutiny. For this game to work for me personally, it's going to need to be well written and what they are choosing to lead with in their marketing is not encouraging.

It feels like a writer taking on a place and subject matter that the aren't familiar with. I really, really hope he is able to pull in other perspectives.

 

[Elandyll]

I absolutely agree that in a game like Detroit where the setting seems fairly central to the theme, representation should be important, but do we really have enough data as of yet to be able to judge the state of the game?

 

[JayB1920]

I don't think we have to worry as pictures have shown. How he handles the issues we will see.

 

[lightskintwin]

The two main characters so far have been androids, so it's not like the demographic of Detroit have any relevance.

We have seen black humans in every trailer so far.

It's possible we'll get to play a human black character. Wait and see.

It's funny how people use demographics and statistics when it maintains the status quo in representation and disregards them when they don't.

 

[ishibear]

It's not diversity for the sake of diversity if a game centered around a predominately black/diverse city emulates the status quo. That's being faithful to the source. In fact, that argument is a complete joke. While some areas can be heterogeneous, colleges, jobs, and downtown itself is overwhelmingly diverse.

So please, if you don't know about Detroit, don't create unfounded hypotheses to excuse lack of proper representation, at least not without doing your research first. Even with the process of gentrification in stow, 20 years is not enough to reduce the black population to a minority.

Nonetheless, I see some promise from the trailer. There seems to be a notably diverse display with what's been shown so far. I'm gonna withhold judgment for now, but it would have been great if the leads reflected Detroit's majority.

 

[bomblord1]

The fact that the man made manufactured androids are all white could itself be a metaphor for how industries use race for commercialization.

 

[SimplyOlivia]

The fact that the man made manufactured androids are all white could itself be a metaphor for how industries use race for commercialization.

All the androids aren't white though?

 

[TGO]

Will Robocop be in this too? Which suit? Original or the new one?

 

[bomblord1]

All the androids aren't white though?

Sorry

 

[NoblesseOblige]

What does 'diversity for the sake of diversity' even mean, and why do some feel it bad?

 

[SimplyOlivia]

Sorry

It's fine in the 2015 trailer they show both black male, black female and asian androids.

 

[JeTmAn81]

The first thing I think of when I hear the word Detroit is Robocop. Robocop had mostly white characters. Therefore I'm ok with this.

 

[JayB1920]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/detroit-become-human-director-on-being-respectful-/1100-6440946/

Here is a nice article. He sounds like he will attempt to tackle some issues.

 

[jmood88]

What does 'diversity for the sake of diversity' even mean, and why do some feel it bad?

I'd like to know this as well.

 

[lazer_bean]

Maybe they will add black people as DLC like Battlefield with the French

 

[Caronte]

One of the protagonists of Fahrenheit was black, so it's not like they've never done it before.