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[Cartman86]

Why'd he ever feel the need to apologize? After reading the emails back and forth, I don't see the problem - if anything, it's a language issue, people getting hung up on what it is to be "male/a man" "female/ a woman" and any combination there-of. All very silly if you ask me... he is just a "Comic Man"...

The twitter responses are what people were angry about.

Anyways he runs one of the biggest game conventions in the world. They have a huge following. He has a responsibility. He should listen when something comes up that he is ignorant of instead if digging in.

 

[Ferrio]

Is he just trying to be funny, or did he seriously use a quote from Kindergarten Cop?

 

[Wickerbasket]

Mike is not that smart and tends to just keep saying things over and over without understanding what he's talking about.

Honestly, I'm much in the same boat. I can only imagine I'd piss off a great number of people with my ignorance on a wide range of subjects if I was in such a public position.

I'll freely own up to my ignorance on transgender issues; I don't know any transgender people so I don't know much about the issues they face.

I even had to google what "cis" meant; I gather it doesn't stand for Computer Information Society.

The best thing to do in cases like this is apologising for causing offence, but at times, I do feel like people should be educating others on the issues they face before labelling them a monster.

Saying that Gabe can just be a dick.

 

[Tummi Gummi]

Was this the tweet that started it all?

No, I think that tweet was a response to an another tweet relating to a PA panel, and also ANOTHER set of tweets related to the old Kotaku article :S

 

[Risette]

I don't believe in gender, that's a social construct and it's completely subjective.

lol

flat earth tier

 

[SpartanN92]

I have no idea what cis means.

Pretty certain that this political correctness garbage has gone too far though.

 

[faceless007]

I find myself unable to decide if Twitter is a destructive force actively contributing to the downfall of rational discourse by making people more confrontational and stupider, or if it's simply a lubricant that reveals seemingly-intelligent people to be the unmitigated trollish vindictive assholes they always were.

I'm referring to both sides of the debate--or any Twitter "debate" really.

 

[JeTmAn81]

The small guy from PA made some comments about the fact that woman should have a vagina, which was taken as transphobic.

I could be wrong though.

No, it was the tall one

 

[luxarific]

Penny Arcade guys being stupid and insensitive? Must be a weekday.

Honestly, I think most of the dumb comes from Krahulik. Holkins knows enough to know that he doesn't know everything and that, as a straight white guy, he really doesn't know what women or LGBT people go through.

I have no idea what cis means.

It means that you identify with the gender that you were assigned with (by society, your own physiology) at birth. I'm a woman who thinks of herself as female, thus I'm a cis-woman. A man who thinks of himself as female, would be a trans-woman.

 

[Cartman86]

Was this the tweet that started it all?

This one
https://mobile.twitter.com/cwgabriel/status/343130484202692609

 

[Orayn]

Screencapped some.

So yeah, this is happening.

 

[kirblar]

I find myself unable to decide if Twitter is a destructive force actively contributing to the downfall of rational discourse by making people more confrontational and stupider, or if it's simply a lubricant that reveals seemingly-intelligent people to be the unmitigated trollish vindictive assholes they always were.

I'm referring to both sides of the debate--or any Twitter "debate" really.

It's definitely the latter.

 

[la flama blanca]

Professionals have respect and courtesy for all.

 

[Quadraphonic]

I have no idea what cis means.

Pretty certain that this political correctness garbage has gone too far though.

It's the alternate way to say 'heteronormative' in a way not to insult LGBT because they aren't normal.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

lol

flat earth tier

What is gender if not a social construct? Please explain.

 

[SpartanN92]

It's the alternate way to say 'heteronormative' in a way not to insult LGBT because they aren't normal.

Thanks for the info.

I'm leaving this thread. This is just begging to turn into a ban fest...

 

[Geedorah]

The twitter responses are what people were angry about.

Anyways he runs one of the biggest game conventions in the world. They have a huge following. He has a responsibility. He should listen when something comes up that he is ignorant of instead if digging in.

Really? A responsibility? I think he also has a degree of freedom to hold an opinion opposite to the community, and the right to defend his stance. He wasn't saying "go out and oppress some people"! I truly hate PA for the Kickstarter nonsense, but this whole situation is entirely different. They have a responsibility to maintain a business, not to bend and agree with whatever group comes screaming at them to agree with their interpretation of reality.

 

[EmiPrime]

He is a profoundly stupid, immature child but this is nothing new. It's probably lost on him why an increasing number of people want nothing to do with him because of his spiteful, nasty trolling with rape jokes and transphobia but I hope his business suffers for it.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

The thing isn't that he thinks this stuff, it's that he thought it was a good idea to post about it and then go on to pick fights with people who had issues with it.

If you read the conversation, he clearly had no interest in listening to the people who had issue with what he was saying, did not attempt to clarify, just kept on repeating what he said the first time and began dismissing replies.

That doesn't seem like someone interested in conversation. It doesn't matter what the topic was - that's bottom level discourse.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

is twitter the worst thing to happen to the internet

 

[Cartman86]

Honestly, I'm much in the same boat. I can only imagine I'd piss off a great number of people with my ignorance on a wide range of subjects if I was in such a public position.

I'll freely own up to my ignorance on transgender issues; I don't know any transgender people so I don't know much about the issues they face.

I even had to google what "cis" meant; I gather it doesn't stand for Computer Information Society.

The best thing to do in cases like this is apologising for causing offence, but at times, I do feel like people should be educating others on the issues they face before labelling them a monster.

Saying that Gabe can just be a dick.

That was the problem. At first he didn't care to listen. Then he made a half hearted apology and now there is more. This wasn't the first time he had done something like this so people were less forgiving.

 

[Risette]

What is gender if not a social construct? Please explain.

not a social construct

 

[googleplex]

This has been going on for years now. Dickwolves, tentacle rape kickstarters, trans ignorance etc. Surprised people aren't more aware... Oh wait no I'm not. Fuck Penny Arcade.

Yep they've been dicks for years.


Although I'm with him on the term "cis" I fucking hate that too. Or at lest I hate "cis" in the context that I've always seen it used in.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Really? A responsibility? I think he also has a degree of freedom to hold an opinion opposite to the community, and the right to defend his stance. He wasn't saying "go out and oppress some people"! I truly hate PA for the Kickstarter nonsense, but this whole situation is entirely different. They have a responsibility to maintain a business, not to bend and agree with whatever group comes screaming at them to agree with their interpretation of reality.

I don't think it's so outlandish to ask people to accept you as a particular gender, and I also don't think it's so outlandish to avoid people who refuse to do so despite it costing them nothing.

Although I'm with him on the term "cis" I fucking hate that too. Or at lest I hate "cis" in the context that I've always seen it used in.

It's not a great term, at least in common usage. It's typically used to dismiss the views of non-trans people, which I loathe.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

not a social construct

Then what is it? How is it that gender roles and clothing norms have changed over time if this is not a subjective phenomena? How is it that it can be divorced from biological sex in the first place?

 

[googleplex]

What is gender if not a social construct? Please explain.

A biological/evolutionary construct?

 

[Lime]

Panel with white men telling minorities to shut up, Gabe telling people to "don't come then", followed by transphobic comments

 

[SimpleDesign]

Screencapped some.

So yeah, this is happening.

http://i.imgur.com/2VnuGSO.jpg

He's being an ass but to be fair that cis comment was replying to this https://twitter.com/TheSpideryOne/status/347751762112946176

yes you are literally a monster. That is what you should gather from criticism holy fuck i hate cis men.

He still should've kept his mouth shut and ignored it.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

A biological/evolutionary construct?

No, you have just described biological sex.

 

[-COOLIO-]

This one
https://mobile.twitter.com/cwgabriel/status/343130484202692609

really? people jumped on him for that?. he might have been talking about sex over gender but regardless the difference between the terms isn't wholly understood or thought about by most people i think. did he actually say something offensive about transgender people?

 

[Sqorgar]

I can't believe I'm going to defend him but...

I don't think gaming is really the best place to fight these gender battles. I don't know how this happened, but somehow, this industry filled with people who call you a faggot in Call of Duty has become the place to make a stance on these issues - maybe it's because many gamers are receptive to this plight and the growth of the industry is now starting to question concepts of sexuality, fairness, and inclusiveness, but transgender issues are complicated and require nuance... not the sort of thing you find in a thread about Nintendo going third party, or from a guy who invented "dickwolves".

I'm not saying that Gabe isn't an asshole. He totally is. But I just don't think he's put a lot of thought into his beliefs here, and I think that jumping on him so strongly will only cause him to retreat and become overly defensive. It's happened before, and things can get so, so much worse. You guys will be doing more harm than good to make a big deal out of this. And while there's no way that Gabe will come out of this looking anything less than an asshole (which he is), it will make it seem like the transgender cause is overly sensitive and a bit of a bully (which it is too). Clashing in a spectacular display of stubborn indignation will not benefit anybody.

The best course of action is not to attack ignorance, but to give it a reason to stop. Gabe knows a transgender person, and that's going to do far, far more good than all the white knights on the internet calling him an asshole (which, again, he totally is). Social progress doesn't happen in a day, and while people get frustrated that it hasn't already happened and isn't happening quickly enough, patience for those that disagree is what will truly be helpful and benefit everybody.

 

[kittens]

Gabe is so utterly wrong, and rather than blowing hot air and dimissing all the many people who are calling him out, he should be taking this opportunity to listen and learn.

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but he posted on PA about correspondence he had with a trans friend this morning. And his attitude continues to be transphobic and dismissive.

Saying things like "[get] off Twitter and actually talk" is a total cop out, ignoring the hundreds of people who have made articulate counterpoints. Also, no, "Your opinion is your opinion" doesn't count when you're openly spouting transphobic bullshit, especially from a position of power. And him trying to pass his continued defensiveness as mere "sarcastic remarks" is yet another cop out.

And, to top it all off, he tells his friend that her identity is invalid. "I am happy to treat someone however they want to be treated. Wanna be a guy or a girl or a fox or whatever and I will be happy to treat you that way. But I think that is very different from the physical reality of your human body."

So disgusting and irresponsible.

 

[Rootbeer]

Used to be a fan of PA but it's just one slap in the face after another from these guys. Even if an even more heartfelt apology is issued, it'll only be a few months before another incident like this. People need to stop giving them money.

 

[shuri]

can anyone explain why saying people with vaginas are women is offensive and worth boycotting?

 

[Geedorah]

I don't think it's so outlandish to ask people to accept you as a particular gender, and I also don't think it's so outlandish to avoid people who refuse to do so despite it costing them nothing.

I do not believe that was ever in question - by reading the response he posted on his site (including an email chain, etc), he isn't about "not accepting" anyone. His arguement, and by virtue mine I guess, is that there is a need/ability to define genders in a purely physiological fashion in common conversation. That or I'm misunderstanding what is pissing people off.

 

[EmiPrime]

Yep they've been dicks for years.


Although I'm with him on the term "cis" I fucking hate that too. Or at lest I hate "cis" in the context that I've always seen it used in.

This is like a white person objecting to be called white.

"I'm not white, I am normal!"

 

[googleplex]

No, you have just described biological sex.

No I'm pretty sure I just described gender. As in the two different genders.

Now if your talking about historical social roles that have been assigned to ether gender... well that an entirely different conversation.

 

[Vidpixel]

You would think that people would know better by now not to post controversial views like this on Twitter.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

can anyone explain why saying people with vaginas are women is offensive and worth boycotting?

Read up

You would think that people would know better by now not to post controversial views like this on Twitter.

And when they do, they all try to claim it's Twitters fault and that they were understood because of the limitations of the medium.

 

[Lunar15]

Find me those people who have never said anything wrong or thought a disrespectful thought in their entire life, and I'll abandon my love for everyone else and follow only them.

Also, when is everyone going to learn that Twitter is not a chat room. It's a fucking megaphone.

 

[Hexa]

What is gender if not a social construct? Please explain.

A word describing what genitalia you have. I mean they have the same fucking root word.
This PC crap is out of control. >_>

 

[JerryThePredator]

Well, PA had a good run, I suppose.

 

[Cartman86]

Really? A responsibility? I think he also has a degree of freedom to hold an opinion opposite to the community, and the right to defend his stance. He wasn't saying "go out and oppress some people"! I truly hate PA for the Kickstarter nonsense, but this whole situation is entirely different. They have a responsibility to maintain a business, not to bend and agree with whatever group comes screaming at them to agree with their interpretation of reality.

If you want to be a welcoming business then you should perhaps not scare away people? The whole rape joke thing didn't just stop as a strip or Twitter feud. They made shirts and at PAX itself he drew the offending image on stage. That colors this latest event.

 

[Orayn]

can anyone explain why saying people with vaginas are women is offensive and worth boycotting?

A person's gender identity doesn't necessarily match their body.

 

[luxarific]

Gabe is so utterly wrong, and rather than blowing hot air and dimissing all the many people who are calling him out, he should be taking this opportunity to listen and learn.

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but he posted on PA about correspondence he had with a trans friend this morning. And his attitude continues to be transphobic and dismissive.

Saying things like "[get] off Twitter and actually talk" is a total cop out, ignoring the hundreds of people who have made articulate counterpoints. Also, no, "Your opinion is your opinion" doesn't count when you're openly spouting transphobic bullshit, especially from a position of power. And him trying to pass his continued defensiveness as mere "sarcastic remarks" is yet another cop out.

And, to top it all off, he tells his friend that her identity is invalid. "I am happy to treat someone however they want to be treated. Wanna be a guy or a girl or a fox or whatever and I will be happy to treat you that way. But I think that is very different from the physical reality of your human body."

So disgusting and irresponsible.

To be honest, I think the trans-friend really failed at the teachable moment here. She totally backed down.

 

[iQue]

I guess if it's your hobby to be offended that's one of the many things you could jump on for the day. It'll be someone else tomorrow and those evil homotransphobic racists simply can't understand because they are "cis". Cool ad hominem.

The internet sucks.

 

[UncleSporky]

Personally I wish we could find another suffix than -phobic, because I feel like it cheapens actual phobias that involve sheer terror.

Yeah, you can joke that homophobic or transphobic people are terrified, that their worldview is shattered and they're extremely afraid, or whatever. It's still different.

You could say bigoted or intolerant, sure. Trans-intolerant. Phobic has just always rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[Xater]

not a social construct

Gender is a social construct, sex isn't there is a difference.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

can anyone explain why saying people with vaginas are women is offensive and worth boycotting?

As a person with a penis, let's say I want to be known as a woman. It makes me more comfortable with how I want to be seen.

You refuse to acknowledge me as a woman, and continue on a rampage of posts like "women have vaginas, I will do no such thing."

Why would you refuse my request when it doesn't harm you at all? Do you have a problem with the way I want to be presented? It's offputting, and I simply would not want to have anything to do with people stubborn enough to refuse such a trivial request.

 

[-COOLIO-]

i guess this boils down to what we mean when we call someone a woman. gender or sex? in my general usage i usually mean to imply sex.

also, what's a cis?