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Digital Foundry: Three Hours with the PS4 Pro

V

viveks86

Member
No mention of UC4 at 60 fps...

Hmmm... :/

In fact they don't seem to mention 60 fps boost for any game. I guess it creates a lot of burden for devs to support both easily?

The checkerboard technique is cool though. But I'm not sure I'd spend $399 just for better IQ on first party titles. Already have a PC rig for the 3rd party ones. If even a handful of games went 60 fps (read UC4, Driveclub), I'll bite
 
S

selfconfessedcynic

Member
God damn it - I loooove my 4k TV, but it doesn't have HDR.

Gah, will have to live with half the benefits of 4k till OLED becomes more affordable I guess (that's the only point where I'd consider buying a new TV)
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
viveks86 said:
No mention of UC4 at 60 fps...

Hmmm... :/

In fact they don't seem to mention 60 fps boost for any game. I guess it creates a lot of burden for devs to support both easily?
Click to expand...

Doubling the framerate for a lot of titles was probably too much to ask, especially when it's still essentially using the same shitty CPU. Maybe a $499 Neo but I think after PS3 they're scared of going that high again
 
I

icespide

Banned
I'm really looking forward to the first DF article of a major AAA game with the various PS4 Pro rendering modes
 
C

c0de

Member
Proelite said:
Hmm sounds like uprendering makes the console trade punches with consoles twice or more powerful using brute force. Since we heard nothing about uprendering from MS, PS4 Pro is essential a 8-9 tflop system, meaning Sony is coming out early and not giving up their perceived visual advantage.
Click to expand...

I can't tell anymore if you are serious with your posts. At least you can't be.
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
c0de said:
If they don't have a patent on it, I think we will see this also in the Scorpio as a chip and as software for the current platforms.
The resolution talk was way too excessive this gen and so that's why both Sony and MS will concentrate on that as well as software developers.
Amazing, how many different techniques were used by now to fiddle with resolution.
Click to expand...
Reconstructions based rendering techniques can be implemented by everyone. Rainbow Six Siege and Quantum Break already make use of them. In a sense the Killzone SF multiplayer also uses a similar technique. They're not exclusive to Sony, or even unique to PS4 Pro for that matter.
Proelite said:
Hmm sounds like uprendering makes the console trade punches with consoles twice or more powerful using brute force. Since we heard nothing about uprendering from MS, PS4 Pro is essential a 8-9 tflop system, meaning Sony is coming out early and not giving up their perceived visual advantage.
Click to expand...
Uprendering? PS4 Pro > Scorpio? Is this a joke post?
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
viveks86 said:
No mention of UC4 at 60 fps...

Hmmm... :/

In fact they don't seem to mention 60 fps boost for any game. I guess it creates a lot of burden for devs to support both easily?
Click to expand...

CPU only got a small boost. GPU could easily handle it, CPU cannot.
 
N

Namegoes_Here

Member
I'd rather stick with the buttery smooth 60fps. Detail is nice for pics and those slow moments, but in actual game play I want it motions to flow.
 
F

farisr

Member
Up until now, we've seen it as a software post-process upscale, but in actual fact, it's one of a number of new custom features backed into the PS4 Pro's GPU and as such comes with zero cost to game developers.
Click to expand...
This is probably the secret feature that was hinted at before, sounds pretty great.
 
D

DustyVonEric

Member
opticalmace said:
Hm, did not know about that giant bomb feedback. Interesting...
Click to expand...

Yeah, Vinnie and Alex were there in person and came away really impressed.

Brad and the rest mentioned that it's obviously hard to showcase the difference in a compressed stream, so spoke with them after the meeting to get their take.

And I usually find the GB guys kind of "been there, done that". They seemed excited with this though.
 
R

Ranger X

Member
Still, upscaling never did add details and never will.
The panel they used simply was upscaling 1080p shittier than the PS4 Pro that's all.
 
C

c0de

Member
farisr said:
This is probably the secret feature that was hinted at before, sounds pretty great.
Click to expand...

They made a good decision. I thought that some of the tech used this gen would find a way to a chip but not that early, to be honest.
 
L

Liquid-San

Member
Read this as HDR is the clear seller here, and since all of the PS4's will be receiving an HDR update, I don't see this version of the console selling well.
 
vpance

vpance

Member
DF said:
I first took a look at the results in Days Gone, the open world survival horror title from Sony Bend. I observed the pixel structure on a 65-inch Sony 4K display from just two feet away, and then I moved closer. It looked good, seriously good. There is a slight softness compared to the pin-sharp precision of a native 4K presentation, but even close-up, the effect works well - in a living room environment, it should work just fine. In common with the other titles using this technique, the demo code we saw can switch in real-time between 1080p and '4K' at the press of a button, with HDR on and off also selectable. There is a clear, unambiguous night and day difference between 1080p and the 4K mode, which is clearly resolving more than the basic 2x increase in pixel throughput being generated at the base level. In fact, the detail increase is almost revelatory - and that applies equally to both Days Gone and Horizon Zero Dawn.
Click to expand...

Sounds very promising. FauxK is no joke.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Ranger X said:
Still, upscaling never did add details and never will.
The panel they used simply was upscaling 1080p shittier than the PS4 Pro that's all.
Click to expand...

The article goes into more detail
I first took a look at the results in Days Gone, the open world survival horror title from Sony Bend. I observed the pixel structure on a 65-inch Sony 4K display from just two feet away, and then I moved closer. It looked good, seriously good. There is a slight softness compared to the pin-sharp precision of a native 4K presentation, but even close-up, the effect works well - in a living room environment, it should work just fine. In common with the other titles using this technique, the demo code we saw can switch in real-time between 1080p and '4K' at the press of a button, with HDR on and off also selectable. There is a clear, unambiguous night and day difference between 1080p and the 4K mode, which is clearly resolving more than the basic 2x increase in pixel throughput being generated at the base level. In fact, the detail increase is almost revelatory - and that applies equally to both Days Gone and Horizon Zero Dawn.
Click to expand...
 
Robot Pants

Robot Pants

Member
Inf3cted_b3ast said:
Great! I beat UC4 twice already and was waiting to get the Neo (Now known as Ps4 Pro) To beat it several more times. Gosh! I wish Driveclub would be patch too to support Ps4 pro. 60fps and better IQ for Driveclub would be outstanding. One can only dream.
Click to expand...
It'll probably happen
 
D

DirgeExtinction

Member
Wow, that's some glowing praise. One thing I noticed from the 4K videos of Horizon, Days Gone, and ROTTR was that the IQ was clean. Very minimal to no jaggies to be seen. Perhaps this is that AA Cerny mentioned during the presentation?
 
Bl@de

Bl@de

Member
n0razi said:
A $600 GTX 1080 barely suffices for 4K PC gaming... I think this is pretty good for a $400 console.
Click to expand...

Native 4K vs. Checkerboard rendering. Yep, totally the same. Also forgetting that the 1080 is aiming for 60fps and Ultra settings way above the PS4. Nice try though
 
Z

zsynqx

Member
Don't know why I'm getting hyped about TLOU being native 4k. I don't even have a 4k tv and don't plan on getting one any time soon.
 
I

icespide

Banned
zsynqx said:
Don't know why I'm getting hyped about TLOU being native 4k. I don't even have a 4k tv and don't plan on getting one any time soon.
Click to expand...
image.php
 
vpance

vpance

Member
Proelite said:
Hmm sounds like uprendering makes the console trade punches with consoles twice or more powerful using brute force. Since we heard nothing about uprendering from MS, PS4 Pro is essential a 8-9 tflop system, meaning Sony is coming out early and not giving up their perceived visual advantage.
Click to expand...

Rendering in native 4K just isn't an efficient use of system resources.
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
Damn, this sounds good. Real good.

I game on a perfectly beautiful 1080p tv (Kuro Elite, I'll love you always) already. I got to fight the urge to get a 4K HDR capable tv!
 
Coolade

Coolade

Member
On the top-end screens used at the event at least, HDR was hugely important to the quality of the presentation. The bottom line is simple - in some scenarios, HDR adds just as much extra detail as the additional resolution. In Horizon Zero Dawn, the skybox is transformed, on Uncharted 4, the beach on the island level we saw is washed out, completely lacking in texture until HDR is enabled.

It's extremely difficult to show the HDR difference via standard media - screenshots and video won't cut it. Secondly, you're categorically missing something special by upgrading to a 4K screen that doesn't support HDR - meaning your choice of display is crucial. Thirdly, the way HDR is presented varies substantially between screens - it can look very, very different moving from one display to the next. The rule of thumb here is to buy a screen with the brightest panel possible, but then, as we experienced during our recent 4K HDR screen test, you may encounter issues in terms of input lag.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how to feel, even if you decide to go 4k, and HDR, how do you know you're getting the "correct" tv to show your games at their best quality?
 
R

Ranger X

Member
RoboPlato said:
The article goes into more detail
Click to expand...

Still, its simply indicates that the PS4 with its upscale + anti-aliasing techniques involved is doing a better job than just the panel taking 1080p and upscaling it. I would say that's excepted. And I would even say that upscalers for 4K TVs are probably shitty all around. this valorise the 4K mode which is the false reason why they make you buy such products afterall.

I'll comeback someday when its worth it, when we mostly all have 60 inches panels, when I have bionic eyes (cause right now my glasses wouldn't cut it much) and when a large majority of content will be filmed and made right there native 4k.
Right now there are trying to sell us the futur right now when it clearly didn't happen yet.
 
Asherdude

Asherdude

Member
So it can't do true 4K gaming? I'm betting it'll be better to wait to see what Scorpio can do with 4K gaming.
 
L

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
DooMAGE said:
was this sponsored?
Click to expand...

Looking around the internet, it seems the press that was actually there are quite impressed with what they saw and played regarding PS4 Pro. Whereas youtube vloggers who just watched the stream weren't, which makes sense. None of the benefits come across on a poor quality stream.

Digital Foundry said:
I went into the PlayStation Meeting with a healthy scepticism and came out thinking that there is a cost-efficient console coming very soon that will indeed present a highly impressive upgrade option when paired with an ultra HD screen. There was no panic upgrade on the Neo spec - we're still looking at a 4.2 teraflop GPU - instead, Sony has opted for smart technology over raw rendering brute force, still achieving some really impressive results. This makes the PS4 Pro viable as a $399/£349 box.
Click to expand...

Probably the smartest way to summarize what the PS4 Pro actually is and what it's trying to achieve.
 
D

DirgeExtinction

Member
Coolade said:
I'm not sure how to feel, even if you decide to go 4k, and HDR, how do you know you're getting the "correct" tv to show your games at their best quality?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't this be same as with any screen? Different manufacturers have different panels, meaning different results with the final image?

Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about lol
 
T

timlot

Banned
Asherdude said:
So it can't do true 4K gaming? I'm betting it'll be better to wait to see what Scorpio can do with 4K gaming.
Click to expand...

I read the entire article and that's the conclusion I came away with. Still looks to be a well thought out system with some tricks to get the job done.
 
F

Foxxsoxx

Member
The only part of this that makes me sad is that while 4k is amazing, it definitely isn't in my budget until a few years down the line when it becomes a little more mainstream, and it seems they're wanting to go the 4K 30FPS route which I do not at all welcome. 60 frames should be first and foremost what developers aim for then graphical prowess. Have I somehow missed footage of comparisons?
 
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