Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
If it does that'll be great.
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Digital Foundry: Three Hours with the PS4 Pro
- Thread starter RoboPlato
- Start date
If it does that'll be great.
that additional USB port at the back is ready for your extra $$$ for a UHD BD drive.
Of course it can't with that power and Scorpio, while having a lot more juice in total, will also fail in that but they could use a higher resolution (or better said more pixels) to feed the algorithm/chip so that the resulting picture looks even better if games choose to do not render 4k natively.
GhostTrick
Banned
So, not native 4k. 4kinda ?
Gaiaknight
Member
i bought last of us remaster a while back havent gotten around to playing and now i will wait till after i get my ps4 pro to play it for my first time.
i feel you man, my panasonic plasma from 2009 is still going strong, still has great picture quality, contrast, and black levels, and no real reason to replace it yet...until now perhaps.
fauxK
manny10032
Member
That sucks. been a few years since i played on a TV
PsihoPerihelion
Member
Native 4K or not, I'm all in for improved IQ.
Rendering 4K with the checkerboard technique requires natively rendering twice as many pixels as 1080p. It should look much better than 1080p even without any cleverness.
Also, sample patterns matter a lot in upscaling quality. Simple ordered grids exacerbate aliasing. By using a custom (rotated-grid-esque) sample pattern with a custom resolve, the results can be significantly smoother than a TV could do with an ordered grid of the same resolution, even if the TV had a great upscaling algorithm.
Also also, some sample patterns are more useful for temporal reconstruction. For example, if the checkerboard is inverted between each frame, in static imagery it should be feasible to more or less perfectly reconstruct a native 4K image, much like how KZSF's MP looks like a clean 1080p in some circumstances.
That's already a problem, HDR or otherwise. Heck, HDR is only quite as marketable as it is because most people haven't used a screen with half-decent static contrast for the better part of a decade, thanks to terrible-quality LCDs wiping CRTs and plasmas off the market. All panels produce different results from other panels. The rise of HDR signalling was never going to change this.
Undead Fantasy
Member
RedAssedApe
Banned
same. i have an 2008 kuro. funny thing is i could probably get a larger 4k/hdr capable tv right now for half of what i paid back then. the thirst is real...
CrimsonEclipse
Member
Even if its not native 4K, everything still sounds nice for the price I suppose. Not sure if devs will use the Scorpio extra brute horsepower if these techniques will be available on the Scropio as well.
The Praiseworthy
Member
Ok.... PS4 Pro is now Day 1 for me.
1080p in Full ultra glory is all what I need.
Can't imagine how would FFVII Remake look on it <3
1080p in Full ultra glory is all what I need.
Can't imagine how would FFVII Remake look on it <3
There were native 4K games on the floor.
i think you misread that
Sonys first party is going to just look incredible
Gaiaknight
Member
Cant wait to see dragon quest 11 in ps4pro mode hope SE goes all out.
I made this post back in January, before Neo and Scorpio rumors started, about Rainbow Six Siege's method (which is a form of checkerboard rendering). I don't think I've ever made a prediction this accurate before for anything.
Something I've been wondering about for a while is the question of 4k potential in the next gen consoles. I'm of the mind that thinks that in order to hit a $399 price point, native 4k with an expected next gen leap in fidelity would be unlikely. However after getting Rainbow Six: Siege, I think it's MSAA reconstruction technique could be quite beneficial on consoles next gen. Being someone who is primarily a console gamer (can't run anything more complex than Source games on my laptop) I would love to see widespread use of these techniques next gen in order to prevent scaling artifacts so we don't have another gen like the last where everything has to be scaled in some way.
For those of you unaware on consoles Siege renders at a halved resolution in order to hit 60fps in the competitive mode and uses the data from a 2x MSAA sample to output at 1080p on PS4 and 900p on Xbox One. I do not have experience with the Xbox One version but on PS4 the final output is shockingly convincing, even in motion.
Example:
There is some artifacting but it's mostly only visible on high contrast edges and when there is a lot of motion. It's relatively minor and looks more reminiscent of aliasing than a more distracting aberration.
Example (around the gun):
Some of you may remember that Killzone: Shadow Fall's multiplayer mode attempting to do something similar. Guerrilla's technique used alternating lines from temporal sampling in order to reconstruct a 1080p image and I was personally not a fan of it. It didn't save enough performance in order to justify the overall loss in clarity and it was a less temporally stable image than what Siege is doing.
I'd love to get more information on methods like this and their practical application. Dictator93 pointed me to this piece by Matt Pettineo from Ready At Dawn. https://mynameismjp.wordpress.com/2015/09/13/programmable-sample-points/
If anyone has more insight into these or similar techniques I'd like to hear about it, examples would be excellent as well. Do you agree that it would be a useful pursuit for consoles in the next generation? I think it would be, especially with a much higher resolution for the original image.
Primethius
Banned
Games will get downsampled to 1080p. So you do get much better IQ then just 1080P
I thought it would be nice to have a thread specifically about the hardware checkerboard rendering, so I made a thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1275477
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1275477
No.
It should be a big thing next couple of years though.
GhostTrick
Banned
I guess so, but I was more talking about their temporal checkerboard upscaling.
Which ones though ?
Sounds really impressive. The checkerboard rendering is no joke it seems.
And TLOU in 4K? Just slap some more modern shaders on a game at that level and bam, there you go, full 4K gaming people said was impossible.
Sounds like it, and its at a good consistent quality. But it makes sense, they are resolving far more high quality frames than any type of rendering method we've seen before.
And TLOU in 4K? Just slap some more modern shaders on a game at that level and bam, there you go, full 4K gaming people said was impossible.
Sounds like it, and its at a good consistent quality. But it makes sense, they are resolving far more high quality frames than any type of rendering method we've seen before.
i know but that specific quote he's talking about 4k fidelity being better than 1080p
SolidSnakex
Member
This seems like it would be hugely beneficial for something like XV. I hope going forward that we not only get 4K videos but those that show the different between PS4 and Pro at 1080p. I think that's critical as i'd imagine most people that'll purchase the Pro will be playing it on a 1080p TV.
Primethius
Banned
Oh okay.
vpance
Member
Yes, and for free it seems.
The source buffers have >= 2x the native resolution over a 1080p buffer. With alternate checkerboarding you're also effectively going to be using more samples again across multiple frames. It's not trying to magic fully resolved samples out of nothing - they are there from the double+ resolution of the buffers and from the alternate pattern of the previous frame. Of course this can lead to reconstruction artifacts vs a straight native buffer, but the bang for buck you get here resolution wise seems like it's extremely compelling.
Seems like it.
The results are impressive and the impressions from the floor seem to be positive.
PS4 Pro got me hyped :")
Aceofspades
Banned
You will be massively dissapointed if you think Scorpio can do 4k gaming on all games, its rumored GPU is just 30% over what we have in Neo.
Titan XP can barely run everything in 4k and its twice the power of Scorpio.
Given that Cerny specifically mentioned temporal AA techniques as well, I bet those help smooth out some of the artifacts that do appear.
I think the most impressive aspect is that its not done in software at all, these are fixed function units inside the GPU custom ordered by Sony to focus on this checkerboard rendering technique.
And supposedly, they have even more in the GPU they aren't talking about yet that isn't apart of polaris and made specifically for the Pro. You get all these features for free with no cost to the actual GPU or CPU resources
And supposedly, they have even more in the GPU they aren't talking about yet that isn't apart of polaris and made specifically for the Pro. You get all these features for free with no cost to the actual GPU or CPU resources
Maybe less than that depending on the breakdown of their spec. I expect there will be more native 4K there, but in a lot of cases it will also be shades of '4K-Kinda'.
Yeah. One of the Golem developers on Twitter actually stated that Pro support is actually very straightforward for developers whereas Scorpio was sounding like an entirely different platform. So hopefully that means it'll get tons of support for older games.
It would be bizarre to use a checkerboard pattern and not alternate it between frames for TAA.
You can absolutely do 4K native on Pro if the game's performance profile suits that. There'll be some 4K native games.
The games shown had a noticeable fidelity improvement on top of the checkerboard 4k. I was worried that there wouldn't be enough grunt left over. I'm very, very pleased with the visuals on display.
Wow. It make the $399 price tag all the more a steal than it already was.
KZObsessed
Member
Sony/Cerny are really intelligent with their hardware design.
The Praiseworthy
Member
AMD you mean?
Pro can do native 4k.Tomb Raider also has a native 4k mode and it looks much better than TLOU.
Native 4k just won't be achieved in every game since using some new advanced upscaling technologies allows for a better compromise than brute forcing all the pixels of a native 4K resolution. You can use that power for other stuff like HDR, better effects and more stable frame rate.
It basically means that they can use this technique for much higher fidelity for what is essentially "free". No investment necessary from developers to implement it, and it takes almost zero performance cost because it is baked into the hardware.
Almost like the high speed EDRAM of the 360 was supposed to allow for free native 720p in all games because of the fixed function bus leading directly to the silicon that affected the framebuffer on the GPU, but MS's dumb ass made the EDRAM pool too small, so sub HD games were still a huge problem in the 7th gen.