Support NeoGAF

[-hadouken]

Ah, the old "they were only gambling" argument. What about the people who acquired all of the gear? or people who only played PvP? The people who ran raids with others despite having all the gear? What kept them around, gambling? Or did they just not exist?

This is getting increasingly off topic, tho I'll respond.

They existed, tho they're outliers in the larger scheme of things. Destiny was built with extrinsic motivation at the fore - take the loot (and other arbitrary levelling rewards away) and the playerbase would have dissolved rapidly.

This underlying motivation also explains why the game didn't need to be visually impressive, run at a native refresh rate, have dedicated servers or feature a balanced/fair MP mode to be successful.

 

[GameAddict411]

What's going on in Destiny 2 that puts other 60fps console shooters to shame exactly...

Are the physics and destruction better than Battlefield?
Are the character models, animation and A.I superior?
Are they running 128-256 concurrent players?
Is the LOD and draw distance super detailed and beyond any other shooter 60fps you've seen before?
Is the effects work better than DOOM 2016 and every other 60fps shooter?

Are the graphics that superb and puts titles like COD IW, Titanfall2, Uncharted MP, DOOM, Battlefield 1 to shame....?

For your information, Destiny 2 barely looks better than Destiny 1 and even that is arguable as you go level per level. Texturework in Destiny 2 so far is atrocious, there is a touch up on lighting, but very basic, nothing to shout home about, but even then it's the AA coverage that has gotten worse, so Destiny 2 appears a bit sharper...

AF looks limited, water physics look very spotty in many scenes. Some of the explosions are not impressive from a physics standpoint, which is one of the points they stress is better in part 2 (a la CPU). If you care for their artstyle, then I can see someone saying it looks good, but technically, materials looks very unconvincing, the worlds don't look realistic, water is iffy, character models are Destiny 1 caliber....That would all be fine if this was 60fps, since every body knows Destiny 1 was hamstrung by last gen consoles, but in an age when every major console shooter is 60fps, with so many of these 60fps shooters doing better water, destruction, materials, world detail, explosions, physics and player count than destiny, it just plain boggles the mind....

Bungie are using their own in house engine. You can't just throw a list of games to compare directly unless they are using the same engine. I think you are really underestimating how many enemies on screen Destiny had especially in raids and nightfall strikes. That information is shared between 3 PS4 with one doing all the computation. Destiny is not very pretty, but it has a beautiful art style and it's extremely refined game. Never experienced much lag in games and it felt really smooth despite the capped frame rates. Destiny is a great example of a 30 FPS game done right. Destiny 2 is not going to be different.

 

[Interficium]

It's ok to have bad taste. Hell, I don't care even if you spinelessly defend predatory products like Destiny as if it were your progeny.

But it's funny that you, a Destiny fan, are speaking of masochism.

How's the view bent over the Activision desk?

Fifty Shades of Awesome?

Sweet homophobia bro. Are you gonna "accuse" me of sucking Activision's dick next?

Spoiler

no actually i love having sex with corporations! it IS fifty shade of awesome, wow!

 

[DonMigs85]

Ryzen or Ryzen 2.0 will be such a huge upgrade for next-gen consoles, even if they only go with maybe a 4-core/8 thread version clocked around 3GHz.

 

[texhnolyze]

So, the game is CPU bound. What's the most comparable Intel processor to the Pro's?

A mobile Intel i3 or Xeon CPU.

Edit: oh, it's Atom lol.

 

[DonMigs85]

A mobile Intel i3 or Xeon CPU.

Edit: oh, it's Atom lol.

If all 6 (or is 7 now?) usable core's performance was merged with near-perfect multithread scaling, then it would be more or less close to a Haswell i3-4170 I think.

 

[Aztechnology]

So, the game is CPU bound. What's the most comparable Intel processor to the Pro's?

AMD FX-8300 Vishera 8-Core 3.3 GHz Socket AM3

But lower processor speed.

 

[BobLoblaw]

PS4 Pro will get 4K upgrade, but why not focus on 60fps instead?

Can't wait to see what the "4K" branding looks like on the box. Too bad that seems like the only reason they aren't focusing on 60 FPS.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

Sweet homophobia bro.

Oh, my...

The moment you tried tag-shaming me I knew that you'd be some YouTube-tier argumentator.

Ignore list, meet whathisface.

 

[DonMigs85]

AMD FX-8300 Vishera 8-Core 3.3 GHz Socket AM3

But lower processor speed.

No, that's using the Piledriver architecture, which still has much greater IPC than the Jaguar used in the consoles.

 

[-hadouken]

Can't wait to see what the "4K" branding looks like on the box. Too bad that seems like the only reason they aren't focusing on 60 FPS.

 

[Interficium]

Oh, my...

The moment you tried tag-shaming me I knew that you'd be some YouTube-tier argumentator.

Ignore list, meet whathisface.

I'll miss your short temper, weird hyperbolic rants, and proclivity to jump straight to the accusations of corporate sadomasochistic fucking at the slightest provocation, internet stranger!

 

[Aztechnology]

No, that's using the Piledriver architecture, which still has much greater IPC than the Jaguar used in the consoles.

Well... I don't know how much more pitiful it can get... So what architecture is the Jaguar?

 

[Renekton]

Well... I don't know how much more pitiful it can get... So what architecture is the Jaguar?

Steamroller which is a minor evolution of piledriver.

 

[HoodWinked]

i feel like titanfall 2 is a good use case to show that a game with a good deal of scripting/ai is able to maintain 60fps with dedicated servers.

there are tons of foot solders with dynamic pathing and random spawning, as well as your titan having its own ai and dynamic pathing. another thing is titanfall 2 is an incredibly fast paced game with verticality making it a very low lag tolerant game.

i think the big issue with peer to peer is that there is an active host so the host basically has the burden of running the instance of the game so destiny 2 has to be designed in a way where they have to leave a certain amount of headroom even if its not utilized just because someone has to be the host.

 

[Fredrik]

There's one thing that DF got wrong. The Base clocks of PS4 Pro vs Scropio.
Ps4 Pro's CPU speed was 2.13GHz or 35% more than the OG PS4 of 1.6GHz.
DF also said that Scorpio is only 32% more powerful than og xbox 1 of 1.75GHz .
XB1's CPU is 9% faster than OG PS4 at 1.6GHz and that makes PS4 PRO only
22% faster than OG XB1 to 32% for Scorpio.

The point is that Scorpio is 44% faster than PS4 Pro's 35% when using the same base clocks. Without the DX12 hardware. With 44% we may just see 60FPS on Scorpio.

This quote alone shows that we won't see 60fps on Scorpio.

- Shannon Loftis of MS said: "As a developer, I would bet no one chooses different frame-rates for multiplayer games ever."

It's obviously a dumb PR excuse that basically says that it's not because Scorpio's CPU is weak that we won't see 60fps on Scorpio, no no no, it's obviously because we simply can't have the game run at 60fps on Scorpio and 30fps on XB1.
What makes it dumb is that different framerates has existed since forever on PC, a platform that is still quite popular for multiplayer.
So yeah, stop dreaming. 30fps it is.

 

[DonMigs85]

Steamroller which is a minor evolution of piledriver.

Noo, Jaguar was derived from Bobcat which itself was basically like an original Atom (only dual issue) but with out of order execution.

 

[thelastword]

This has nothing to do with pro, CPUs or any hardware, the game should be 60fps on all consoles in MP. Many games do it now, many did it last gen and the gen before it.

The bottom line is this...



Bungie doesn't want to do the work, they are re-using so much from the last game.

Anybody who doesn't see that is being deluded....Destiny 2 does nothing to justify the "60fps is impossible on consoles"...Bungie have been a 30fps studio for more than a minute, perhaps with the exception of ONI...

Destiny 1 was devved at 30fps, we all hoped that they would have done the extra work to bump the game/engine to 60fps on consoles but they did not and I think that's a mistake..

All he needed to say. Not a surprise, either.

It's obvious they CHOSE 30FPS.

All that narrative about PS4P being designed to favour resolution is bullshit.

"4K* gaming or perfomance upgrades"

That's how the PS4Pro was pitched.

"Performance" being the operative word, it's clear it's up to devs and their mission statement.

Whether BF1 maintains a locked 60 or not it's irrelevant.

4v4 vs 64v64 plus vehicles.

No excuses.

That much is true, they chose 30fps, and devs/pr will communicate that in weird ways sometimes, however their reason for this being 30fps on consoles is not something I have to believe. I can put two and two together and Bungie's math is not adding up here. Precedence dictates it's something else. I have a feeling that if it was up to bungie, Guardians would still be 30fps, even on that title we still had sub 60fps animations in backgrounds etc...

People say don't compare, but Destiny is not in it's own bubble, Destiny is a shooter. It's visuals does not even match other 60fps shooters with higher player counts and more destructibility, with more vehicles and higher rez particle effects and smokeplumes...How is it that persons don't want to compare other shooters....NMS which is procedural runs at 60fps on the PRO as a game with large planets and the NMS comparison mainly comes because of how large it is..

Also persons saying PRO is only favoring 4k are not being truthful, there are so many games with performance modes along their 4k modes....There are even games that run in 4k mode at 60fps, Battleborn and IW are two, there are many others as well. I mean if Destiny looked like Uncharted 4, I'd see why 30fps was the only option, if it had great physics and destructibility or high player counts I'd understand, but Destiny does not look all that great in 2017 and I'm still seeing visuals as if it was still hamstrung by PS3/360... It's a double whammy of affairs and I can't say I'm not massively disappointed here...

 

[grfunkulus]

Anybody who doesn't see that is being deluded....Destiny 2 does nothing to justify the "60fps is impossible on consoles"...Bungie have been a 30fps studio for more than a minute, perhaps with the exception of ONI...

Destiny 1 was devved at 30fps, we all hoped that they would have done the extra work to bump the game/engine to 60fps on consoles but they did not and I think that's a mistake..



That much is true, they chose 30fps, and devs/pr will communicate that in weird ways sometimes, however their reason for this being 30fps on consoles is not something I have to believe. I can put two and two together and Bungie's math is not adding up here. Precedence dictates it's something else. I have a feeling that if it was up to bungie, Guardians would still be 30fps, even on that title we still had sub 60fps animations in backgrounds etc...

People say don't compare, but Destiny is not in it's own bubble, Destiny is a shooter. It's visuals does not even match other 60fps shooters with higher player counts and more destructibility, with more vehicles and higher rez particle effects and smokeplumes...How is it that persons don't want to compare other shooters....NMS which is procedural runs at 60fps on the PRO as a game with large planets and the NMS comparison mainly comes because of how large it is..

Also persons saying PRO is only favoring 4k are not being truthful, there are so many games with performance modes along their 4k modes....There are even games that run in 4k mode at 60fps, Battleborn and IW are two, there are many others as well. I mean if Destiny looked like Uncharted 4, I'd see why 30fps was the only option, if it had great physics and destructibility or high player counts I'd understand, but Destiny does not look all that great in 2017 and I'm still seeing visuals as if it was still hamstrung by PS3/360... It's a double whammy of affairs and I can't say I'm not massively disappointed here...

And there are no 'performance modes' that take a locked 30 game and make it a locked 60...except 'the surge' which just came out.

If you're massively disappointed, wait until the PC version arrives and then see what CPU is required to make this run smoothly at 1080p60 before making judgments. It's too early for that but internet gonna internet

 

[DocSeuss]

however their reason for this being 30fps on consoles is not something I have to believe.

Okay, but why choose to be ignorant? Why write these lengthy, completely ignorant screeds, pretending like you know something, when you could just, y'know, actually learn and become knowledgeable about the subject instead?

You continue to derail the topic with your foolishness. What's the point? What are you contributing other than FUD? Your participation in this thread has no value.

It's clear that many of you don't understand how CPU intensive AI calculations can be. And that's not taking into account all the other stuff that Destiny does that goes far beyond what other games are trying.

Most of the games you use as examples aren't games that are pushing Destiny-sized numbers of AI, or using physics/networking stuff in the way Destiny does. Battlefield's maps, for instance, got nothing on Destiny's, in terms of what's being pushed.

Trading framerate--and Destiny does feel great at 30, just like Bungie's other console games--for feature set is a conscious and meaningful decision. Comparing them is foolish and ignorant.

It's ok to have bad taste. Hell, I don't care even if you spinelessly defend predatory products like Destiny as if it were your progeny.

But it's funny that you, a Destiny fan, are speaking of masochism.

How's the view bent over the Activision desk?

Fifty Shades of Awesome?

Why go for the homophobic derail on a thread about a game you clearly don't care about when you could, y'know, not do that? Isn't there a thing in the TOS about not being rude to other posters?

 

[nOoblet16]

To those name dropping Battlefield 1, go have a look at how the game actually performs on base PS4. It's essentially an unlocked 30FPS game there rather than a 60FPS game with few drops. It spends far too much time in 30s and low 40s for it to be called a 60FPS game.

Not everyone likes that sort of performance and quite a few prefer consistency of 30 over that even if they can hit that sort of performance by unlocking the framerate cap. BF1 is also not running a simulation and has no AI btw, nor does it do 30-40 enemies all at once (if you can try it then try having all 64 players standing in one area and see how that works out for performance). It does have a lot of physics though, quite a bit more than Destiny. Battlefront on the other hand lacks AI, mostly lacks any destruction (yes I know you can break some trees in Endor) and is 40 players.


Also name dropping 10 different games each with their speciality and then saying Destiny doesn't do that, is disingenuous. You can have a game be top of the class in one area and lack something completely in another area and, it can still end up being less demanding than a game that's doing both of those things at a mediocre level.

 

[DocSeuss]

To those name dropping Battlefield 1, go have a look at how the game actually performs on base PS4. It's essentially an unlocked 30FPS game there rather than a 60FPS game with few drops. It spends far too much time in 30s and low 40s for it to be called a 60FPS game.

Not everyone likes that sort of performance and quite a few prefer consistency of 30 over that even if they can hit that sort of performance by unlocking the framerate cap. BF1 is also not running a simulation and has no AI btw, nor does it do 30-40 enemies all at once (if you can try it then try having all 64 players standing in one area and see how that works out for performance). It does have a lot of physics though, quite a bit more than Destiny. Battlefront on the other hand lacks AI, mostly lacks any destruction (yes I know you can break some trees in Endor) and is 40 players.


Also name dropping 10 different games each with their speciality and then saying Destiny doesn't do that, is disingenuous. You can have a game be top of the class in one area and lack something completely in another area and, it can still end up being less demanding than a game that's doing both of those things at a mediocre level.

Unless I'm mistaken, Bungie is still doing things like "other player's gun models are rendered at the same resolution as guns you're holding," and its insane draw distances, which the games you mentioned don't do. It's a priority thing.

 

[Aztechnology]

Unlocked framerate will be absolutely fine once we get Freesync/Adaptive Sync in all of our consoles and TV's!