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[zigg]

I was given a Kindle fire HD as a gift (which is slightly bigger than the Wii U screen). I much prefer surfing on the Wii U pad.

I've often mistyped when using the kindle keyboard or clicked the wrong link due to webpages having a bunch of small links close together ..or accidently brushed part of the screen and caused it to register a touch when i didn't want it to. I'd pick browsing on the Wii U pad over the Kindle Fire every time (well provided I'm in the same room as the wii U of course).

I've played around with my daughter's OG Kindle and I know what you're talking about. My iPhone, with its substantially smaller screen, is more accurate—I chalk this up to software, though I could be wrong. Stylus-based resistive trumps them all, though typing on an on-screen keyboard is slower, owing mostly I think to awkward motion. Finger-based resistive, is pretty awful. Poking or trying to slide with a finger, I can see why people would think capacitive screens are more accurate.

I'm almost willing to bet that Iwata has included the cost of R & D in the retail price of the Wii U. That is the only way this thing could conceivably be sold at a "loss".

Wait, why wouldn't you include the cost of R&D? Does R&D money magically come from the sky and never have to be repaid?

 

[WrenchNinja]

At least the Wii U has an application that allows you to draw! I've resorted to applying sticky notes all over my Vita and drawing on the layer of dust that's all over it!

Spoiler

No but seriously does the Vita have a drawing app?

Paint Park

 

[Shiggy]

This topic is full of stupid revival arguments.

The most integrated software on the console, Miiverse isn't going to work very well at all with current multitouch tech. Just deal with it and please in the future give thought to the fact that certain technologies accomplish things even if you only understand them as "touch screen."

Wii U is $350 versus a $250 PS3 (or +$50 if you remove the hard drive which costs Sony almost nothing). The $100 probably comes from initial R&D, not that the marginal cost of making the Gamepad is exactly $100. Other consoles have been in production for quite some time and the component cost has dropped quite a bit and initial costs have long been made up. It's not like Wii U uses those same components either, my Wii U is about half as big as a PS3 "super slim." By comparison's sake it's really never been expensive.

I consider the current price of the Wii U (€200) quite fair when compared to the PS3 with 12GB (€180). It's just that Nintendo has yet to provide incentives, i.e. release software, to really buy it.

 

[Xanonano]

The most integrated software on the console, Miiverse isn't going to work very well at all with current multitouch tech. Just deal with it and please in the future give thought to the fact that certain technologies accomplish things even if you only understand them as "touch screen."

What does Miiverse do that wouldn't work well with multi touch?

 

[Chuckpebble]

So all that I saw in the OP is that I can potentially record my gameplay directly to my computer over WiFi.

 

[Margalis]

Good point. With the Wii-U 'just' using custom WiFi protocols for the streaming, I'm feeling much more optimistic about playing PS4 games on my Vita. I'd pretty much written it off based on the PS3 implementation.

Is the Vita capable of the same WiFi protocols? I honestly don't know but I suspect the answer is no.

I wouldn't get my hopes up about streaming to Vita on PS4. Sony has already set expectations by saying that certain types of games (like fighting IIRC) won't work too well on it , which reading between the lines indicates some sort of latency issue.

 

[Surfheart]

I for myself didn't know that this is simply a dedicated WiFi stream.


That's interesting imho.

Yeah it is, how sweet would it be to connect the game pad to you own wireless router. Play games virtually anywhere in your house.

 

[m.i.s.]

the wholesale cost was 173 quid, the only reason we saw 230 in some stores was shops trying to profiteer

Thanks. Quick google reveals the £173 price on Slashgear. [I thought MCV quoted the wholesale figure of £197 but maybe I was mistaken].

Correction made.

 

[fabricated backlash]

What does Miiverse do that wouldn't work well with multi touch?

Dithering. Unless they make a zoom feature, it wouldn't work.

 

[goomba]

What does Miiverse do that wouldn't work well with multi touch?

Drawing.

 

[PdotMichael]

I'd say fps, racing, fighting are out. I mean you can do those on touch screens....but yeah they are usually awful.

You're trolling me or?

 

[wsippel]

What does Miiverse do that wouldn't work well with multi touch?

 

[JimboJones]

You're trolling me or?

Why do you think i'm trolling you?

 

[Xanonano]

Drawing.

Dithering. Unless they make a zoom feature, it wouldn't work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK8Pz___yQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcFw38ewiU

Looks pretty good to me.

 

[Appleman]

HDDs do not cost "almost nothing" in terms of BoM. IIRC, prices are still inflated post-Thailand floods.

And R&D should not be included in calculating margins on a product as far as I'm aware. So I still can't conceive of how exactly Nintendo claims they're selling this product at a loss per unit.

The PS3 hardware started at $600 and only now have they gotten it down to $250 through optimizations, lowered component costs, and feature cutting. The Wii U hasn't been able to benefit from any of that. It's a newly designed console, with more grunt than a PS3 but using less than half of the power, in a much smaller enclosure. Those benefits aren't "free" and could easily bring the cost up hundreds of dollars considering the whole thing is a new manufacturing process and there's a more expensive and complicated controller in there too. Adding in distrubution, the HDMI Cable, etc, and the Wii U is definitely not overpriced for the hardware (but maybe for the overall value if you aren't impressed with the game lineup so far).

 

[Chuckpebble]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK8Pz___yQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcFw38ewiU

Looks pretty good to me.

Where's the multitouch in those videos? My stylus that I've used with my computer for over 10 years doesn't have multi touch.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Multi-touch and software that plays to its strengths can achieve the same "make pictures" aspect of Miiverse.

 

[goomba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK8Pz___yQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcFw38ewiU

Looks pretty good to me.

The Samsung Galaxy note aint just a capacitive screen, it has a special active stylus, the sort of tech would make GamePad's too expensive and kids would lose the stylus, which aint a problem for 3ds or wiiu as its just a piece of plastic.

People compare the GamePad resistive screen to the Ipad and cheap Android tablet capacitive screens which can only use round finger sized stylus.

 

[PdotMichael]

Drawing.

Not impossible with multi-touch.

Why do you think i'm trolling you?

Because your post doesn't make sense.

 

[Margalis]

Well by quoting that passage, youve pointed out I'm aware there is a minute difference in accuracy but the crux of my argument is that to pretty much all people, the difference in accuracy just isn't something that can be spotted from casual testing and use.

So I guess pizzaroll was right, you suck at following conversations because you're playing out different ones you can "win" in your head.

I really don't care about the retroactively defined crux of your argument offered up once it becomes clear that your actual argument was wrong.

I quoted you word for word. Not what is in my head - what you wrote verbatim. What you wrote was wrong. The end.

I don't think this needs to be belabored any further. Capacitive screens are more accurate and this is easily observable to normal people. That is the reality and no amount gymnastics will change that.

 

[wsippel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK8Pz___yQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcFw38ewiU

Looks pretty good to me.

A Note is several times as expensive as a GamePad. A Cintiq is even better and even more expensive. You can do whatever you want on an unlimited budget.

 

[fabricated backlash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK8Pz___yQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcFw38ewiU

Looks pretty good to me.

Good yes, but you're limited to finger painting essentially. The best drawing tabs use external tech to get around the inherent shortcomings of capacitive tech.

The optimal tech would be capacitive with wacoms inductive tech... but yeah I wouldn't want to pay that outside of professional equipment.

 

[lenovox1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK8Pz___yQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcFw38ewiU

Looks pretty good to me.

Just wanted to point out that the Galaxy Note utilizes an electromagnetic induction pen. The Wii U's pen is just a piece of plastic.

 

[wsippel]

Not impossible with multi-touch.

Overall? Of course not. Within the available budget? Probably.

Honestly, if it were that cheap and simple, Wacom would offer a wireless 10 inch Cintiq for $100. Would sell like hotcakes. But they don't, because it's impossible.

 

[MarkusRJR]

Wow are people really defending the use of resistive screens in a game console released in late 2012? There really is a defense force for everything. Resistive screens made sense in the DS-era due to the screen size. UI and menus were so small that users needed the precision that resistive screens provide. When you have a 5+ inch screen it doesn't "need" that level of precision unless you're writing or drawing, which aren't typical applications of a games console. Capacitive screens provide a better experience in regards to gaming. They work much better with fingers (smoother scrolling, not having to push on the screen, no stylus ever needed), have multi-touch, and work on a solid surface that won't scratch (resistive touch screens have poor durability compared to modern capacitive screens, especially since you're constantly using a stylus).

It's clear Nintendo was just being cheap when they put a resistive screen in the Game Pad.

EDIT: Miiverse isn't an excuse for using a resistive screen. It's a games console so the deciding factor of whether or not a resistive screen is useful should be games. And it isn't when compared to capacitive.

 

[BGBW]

Dithering. Unless they make a zoom feature, it wouldn't work.

Well they could do what Flipnote did and have dithering brushes.

 

[PdotMichael]

Overall? Of course not. Within the available budget? Probably.

so? How more expensive would be a multitouch on the same level of the iOS devices?

 

[Margalis]

A Note is several times as expensive as a GamePad. A Cintiq is even better and even more expensive. You can do whatever you want on an unlimited budget.

The same people arguing that the pad is already too expensive and adds too much to the total system cost are also arguing that it should cost much more.

 

[goomba]

so? How more expensive would be a multitouch on the same level of the iOS devices?

iOS devices can not be used for drawing like the Samsung Galaxy Note.

 

[Xanonano]

Just wanted to point out that the Galaxy Note utilizes an electromagnetic induction pen. The Wii U's pen is just a piece of plastic.

Good yes, but you're limited to finger painting essentially. The best drawing tabs use external tech to get around the inherent shortcomings of capacitive tech.

The optimal tech would be capacitive with wacoms inductive tech... but yeah I wouldn't want to pay that outside of professional equipment.

A Note is several times as expensive as a GamePad. A Cintiq is even better and even more expensive. You can do whatever you want on an unlimited budget.

The Samsung Galaxy note aint just a capacitive screen, it has a special active stylus, the sort of tech would make GamePad's too expensive and kids would lose the stylus, which aint a problem for 3ds or wiiu as its just a piece of plastic.

People compare the GamePad resistive screen to the Ipad and cheap Android tablet capacitive screens which can only use round finger sized stylus.

Dat goalpost moving. Remember that the original statement was that Miiverse wouldn't work well with current multi touch technology. Last time I looked, the Galaxy Note was actually current multi touch technology.

 

[PdotMichael]

iOS devices can not be used for drawing like the Samsung Galaxy Note.

Good, that I'm talking about pure multitouch devices like the iPhone or iPad.

 

[v1oz]

So basically the Wii U has enough hardware for live streaming to the internet without a performance penalty?

It's time they introduced a share feature before Sony and Microsoft.

 

[shinra-bansho]

When people are bored, talented and/or motivated enough to take the time, presumably they can draw anything on any canvas they're given.

 

[Risette]

iOS devices can not be used for drawing like the Samsung Galaxy Note.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp8h97oCrX4

this seems pretty similar to drawing

 

[KevinCow]

Apart from the buttons and sticks, which are likely extremely cheap for Nintendo to manufacture/acquire from a manufacturer (they're on various controllers for various, much smaller costs), and the decoder chip, what other components does it contain? Serious question, as I'm just going off what I've read.

Gamepad
Screen (resistive)
Plastic casing
Buttons
Analog sticks
WiFi chip
Video decoder chip
Camera

Cheap tablet
Screen (multitouch)
Plastic casing
CPU & quad-core mobile GPU
1GB RAM
8GB flash memory
WiFi chip
Camera

I'm honestly struggling to see what can be so expensive about the gamepad, unless that decoder chip is ridiculously costly to produce - I can't imagine it being expensive enough to push the cost up so much.

R&D costs? Same reason a game costs $60 even though the disc costs pennies to manufacture.

They got the system to wirelessly stream video to the gamepad with less lag than most TVs. I'm sure that took a little bit of work.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Everything I posted was from iPad Sketchbook Pro.

The Galaxy Note is a different kettle of fish due to its Wacom tech, and thats why I own one because owning the best tech available is what I enjoy and drives my purchases

 

[wsippel]

so? How more expensive would be a multitouch on the same level of the iOS devices?

We're not talking about iOS devices, we're talking about the Note now. Nintendo wanted precise pen input. A Galaxy Note stylus, which is induction based, costs $20. Just the stylus.

 

[MarkusRJR]

The same people arguing that the pad is already too expensive and adds too much to the total system cost are also arguing that it should cost much more.

If you're going to make the crux of your system a tablet controller, it better be a good experience. Otherwise it's a waste and isn't needed due to the costs added. In other words, in my opinion the current Game Pad isn't worth the raised price of the console. If it was nicer I would have been fine with it. The Game Pad has terrible build quality (similar to the OG 3DS), a poor screen, poor range from the console, and a hilariously small battery that only provides about 3 hours per charge.

The Game Pad actively makes me not want to use the system and makes me look for my 3DS XL or PS3 controller.

 

[lenovox1]

Dat goalpost moving. Remember that the original statement was that Miiverse wouldn't work well with current multi touch technology. Last time I looked, the Galaxy Note was actually current multi touch technology.

So, that was your point? You wanted to let posters know that there were methods to draw on a capacitive touch screen? Oh. Okay. Thanks, I guess. Real helpful there.

 

[goomba]

Good, that I'm talking about pure multitouch devices like the iPhone or iPad.

And round and round we go. The popularity of Miiverse would show that they are better off with a resistive screen than an iPad mini like capacitive screen.

With buttons and analog sticks etc, multitouch isnt so useful.

And how about the ps4/iXbox controllers?, no touch screen at all, how cheap is that?

 

[Damian.]

Interesting. I expected something a little sexier for the streaming. Well, it works well and that's what matters. Hopefully we'll see a cheap range extender at some point.

Take away the Wii-U base unit and it can't do anything at all.

We can hope. I live in a 700 square foot apartment, with no one around me using the 5.2GHZ band and I can't play with the gamepad more than 15-20 feet from the system unless I am in a straight line of sight. I was really wanting it to work 30 feet around the corner so I could use it on the can or in my bedroom.

 

[PdotMichael]

We're not talking about iOS devices, we're talking about the Note now. Nintendo wanted precise pen input. A Galaxy Note stylus, which is induction based, costs $20. Just the stylus.

You quoted me and I talked about multi-touch devices.

 

[Pie and Beans]

And round and round we go. The popularity of Miiverse would show that they are better off with a resistive screen than an iPad mini like capacitive screen.

With buttons and analog sticks etc, multitouch isnt so useful.

And how about the ps4/iXbox controllers?, no touch screen at all, how cheap is that?

Woah hang on, is this post trying to equate Miiverse posts with... popularity versus the iPad mini, and using that to justify the tech choice? Because boy would that be a bad idea!!

 

[GhostTrick]

Those things has been drawn on 3DS, you know, a resistive monotouch screen:
http://colorslive.com/details/219186
http://colorslive.com/details/645767
http://colorslive.com/details/718337
http://colorslive.com/details/1043463
http://colorslive.com/details/1045141
http://colorslive.com/details/1053955

 

[Risette]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGMudNWBgyE

is this drawing? i m not too sure

 

[goomba]

Woah hang on, is this post trying to equate Miiverse posts with... popularity versus the iPad mini, and using that to justify the tech choice? Because boy would that be a bad idea!!

not popularity vs the iPad, the fact that drawing on Miiverse is popular and wouldnt be possible with an iPad like capcacitive touchscreen.

 

[bobeth]

Wait, why wouldn't you include the cost of R&D? Does R&D money magically come from the sky and never have to be repaid?

R&D is written off as expense as the years go by, every major tech company in the world spends some money on research. How can you say X amount of money out of every console sold goes to cover past research when you have no idea how many consoles you're going to sell? I'd be damned if I'd let a rich company guilt me for researching a new product..

 

[PdotMichael]

And round and round we go. The popularity of Miiverse would show that they are better off with a resistive screen than an iPad mini like capacitive screen.

With buttons and analog sticks etc, multitouch isnt so useful.

And how about the ps4/iXbox controllers?, no touch screen at all, how cheap is that?

speculation

nonsense - if I want to do something on the screen, why is using more than just one finger/pen not "so useful"?

cheap troll attempt

 

[KingSnake]

I would be curious for which game did Pie and Beans miss the multitouch on his Wii U gamepad?

 

[cloudyy]

All the videos posted here doesn't have one bit of pixel by pixel drawing.