Schnozberry
Member
I think you're in the wrong place if your search is for logic and reason.
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DigiTimes: Foxconn trialing production of NX, ~10m units expected annually
- Thread starter axisofweevils
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I think you're in the wrong place if your search is for logic and reason.
I can't believe they still haven't revealed this thing given it looked like it was potentially ready for E3 but pushed due to software lineup.
Just show us the hardware and Zelda again Nintendo. If you even had one other game in a showable state (Mario? Pikmin?) that would be enough. They probably don't have any 3rd party games in a showable state and that's maybe the problem.
Starting to get worried this isn't going to show up until Fall 2017. Seems like their dev cycle times are really long with HD graphics. We still haven't really seen a full blown AAA 3D HD game I feel like from Nintendo. Zelda would be the first that qualifies IMO. 3D World was pretty but I feel like the scope was pretty limited, not sure how much it cost to develop either.
Just show us the hardware and Zelda again Nintendo. If you even had one other game in a showable state (Mario? Pikmin?) that would be enough. They probably don't have any 3rd party games in a showable state and that's maybe the problem.
Starting to get worried this isn't going to show up until Fall 2017. Seems like their dev cycle times are really long with HD graphics. We still haven't really seen a full blown AAA 3D HD game I feel like from Nintendo. Zelda would be the first that qualifies IMO. 3D World was pretty but I feel like the scope was pretty limited, not sure how much it cost to develop either.
What? NO. Revealing the NX and ONLY showing Zelda for games? That would be disastrous. I can already hear all the "NX has no games" posts.
LegendofLex
Member
If they weren't going to show it at E3 because the games lineup hadn't totally shored up, they aren't going to blow the lid with just a couple games.
Especially not now that they've told everyone that's why they waited.
I'd count 3D World, Pikmin 3, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Mario Kart 8, and Splatoon all as AAA 3D HD games, within the realm of the kinds of AAA games Nintendo produces.
Wouldn't that be Xenoblade Chronicles X?
Nintendo's not going to make something with the budget or team size of a AAA game from other publishers though.
By the way, not that a newer Tegra than Parker has been announced, can we stop saying that Pascal is far-fetched for Nintendo due to being too new now?
would like to see some good discussion on this...
Ah yeah X would be it I guess. I sold my Wii U before ever buying that so it slipped my mind. My bad. If you do count 3D world, Pikmin, MK8 and Splatoon, that's 5 games since 2012 though. With all the studios they have that's not great.
This is probably NOT going to be a short post, so beware.
As said earlier, picking this ad to say Nintendo is incapable of advertising their stuff is not...rational. It's much more rational to say that Nintendo can be good and bad at advertising, in different cases.
Examples of bad advertising? Well, the Wii U right after launch, the Digital Event 2015, Wii U 2013 Holidays ads, I'd say the duo Mario Tennis and Animal Crossing: Amiibo Festival as well, ...
Examples of good advertising? Several general 3DS ads, the Digital Event in 2014, Splatoon itself, their Super Mario Run presentation at the Apple Conference.
I'd say their E3 2016 presence too: this is when they had just one major title, alongside other stuff not playable at the booth, and they obtained to maximize the minimum they had (thanks, Kyle Bosman, for the expression ): Zelda had made people go wild, and what they did at E3 2016 helped immensely to foster great desire for the game.
Also, I wanted to address more what KingSnake said earlier
I was already doing it on Twitter, but it's probably better here, without tweet restrictions of any kind: I can provide a deeper answer. His theory is basically: Nintendo is just good at selling popular products, while it's not able to make good products popular.
First of all, it's better to address how we're talking about advertising here, not marketing. Marketing is actually the art of analysing the market and understanding how to capture specific segments of that market properly, and advertising is a part of it. L Thammy offered a good explanation; here, I'll add this quote from Peter Drucker to make the idea even clearer
So, technically, we could say that the best marketing is the one that brings to the creation of products that are so immediately desirable by customers that they can sell by themselves...a bit of the opposite of what stated earlier
The ability to make a product more known and desirable, post-marketing process is, indeed, part of the advertising process.
And I'm going to say that Nintendo was able to advertise products that, while good, weren't so good they could sell themselves, at least initially
- Splatoon: this is a product that we can safely say (even if just now, well after its release) hit most of the right notes in terms of very good marketing, so it's not a complete perfect fit for this arguement, and one can say that the initial E3 reception made it clear it was going to sell very well. However, if it weren't for Nintendo's big advertising push, through several means, I really doubt the game would've sold as well as it did. We're talking about a colorful territory-control based shooter on a niche console, a great anomaly compared to the rest of the other games of the genre, it wasn't an instant winner at the time (this is why I stated a few words ago that NOW we can say it's a product of great marketing) but they obtained to use its features as strength...and this is how a new phenomenon in Japan was born (the game sold very well everywhere, but Japan is in a different league).
- Bravely Default: this is a JRPG experience with a very traditional look, despite several innovations included in it. A good product, but not a winner-per-se. However, Nintendo obtained to advertise the title pretty well, especially online, and the results obtained showed it did well: the game became a million seller, with the majority of sales coming from the West; in US only, the game was at > 350,000 copies sold at the end of 2014 at retail, thus around / > 400,000 when digital is included (the game did around 35,000-to-40,000 on the eShop the first month). These are great (and outdated - still, the most recent numbers shouldn't be SO MUCH higher) sales for a brand new IP in the JRPG genre in US.
- Fire Emblem: Awakening: We all know what was the state of the franchise, especially in the West, before Awakening hit the market, right? The best range they could reach was the 250,000-300,000 mark in US, for example. With Awakening, sales exploded compared to the predecessors, especially in the West. How much?
So much that while Japan saw a very good increase in popularity for the series, US sales were even higher than in Japan, and not by an ignorable margin.
- Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate While this is a Capcom title, Nintendo's influence in promotion is heavily present in the West, including the push at the New 3DS XL launch. The result? Over 1 million copies sold between Europe and US, a first for the franchise. Technically, it could be said that Nintendo's work with MH started back with Tri on Wii, but it's with 4U that even bigger results were obtained.
- Xenoblade Chronicles X Like Splatoon, this isn't the most fitting example, but for different reasons: as KingSnake answered to me on Twitter, this is a game perfectly marketable but that couldn't sell to its full potential, since it's an open world RPG. And while I can't say he's entirely wrong, I would still put it among the other examples because...it was released on Wii U, a console that was far from the best fit for an RPG of any kind: small installed base, but above all time of the release (end of 2015) and the severe lack of RPG on the platform. I'd dare to say that, just like Zelda at E3, they maximized the minimum as much as they could. The game was at 235,000 copies sold at retail in US back in February: this is a solid result for a not-high-budget game (the developers stated as such), released on probably the console representing the worst place possible for an RPG to sell on. Again, the "max-min" angle is where I'm coming from to include X in the list
I was going to include Yokai Watch as well in this list at first, and there would be good basis for it (over 400,000 in US, around 100,000 in Spain alone - a great result given the market - and costant sales in France/Spain and Italy too (unfortunately, the lack of weekly German charts doesn't allow to have a decent perspective on that market), but Hino himself stated that "looking at it from a Yo-kai Watch perspective, thats not nearly enough" (referring to NA sales), so I preferred to avoid doing it.
They're clearly not impeccable, both in terms of mere marketing (Wii U) and of mere advertising (DE 2015), but they're far from this "disaster" some people here refer to and, yes, they've been able to advertise properly and to sell /help to sell as much as possible good titles that weren't instant winners from the get go.
Ok, this came out as long as expected after all
As said earlier, picking this ad to say Nintendo is incapable of advertising their stuff is not...rational. It's much more rational to say that Nintendo can be good and bad at advertising, in different cases.
Examples of bad advertising? Well, the Wii U right after launch, the Digital Event 2015, Wii U 2013 Holidays ads, I'd say the duo Mario Tennis and Animal Crossing: Amiibo Festival as well, ...
Examples of good advertising? Several general 3DS ads, the Digital Event in 2014, Splatoon itself, their Super Mario Run presentation at the Apple Conference.
I'd say their E3 2016 presence too: this is when they had just one major title, alongside other stuff not playable at the booth, and they obtained to maximize the minimum they had (thanks, Kyle Bosman, for the expression
): Zelda had made people go wild, and what they did at E3 2016 helped immensely to foster great desire for the game.Also, I wanted to address more what KingSnake said earlier
I was already doing it on Twitter, but it's probably better here, without tweet restrictions of any kind: I can provide a deeper answer. His theory is basically: Nintendo is just good at selling popular products, while it's not able to make good products popular.
First of all, it's better to address how we're talking about advertising here, not marketing. Marketing is actually the art of analysing the market and understanding how to capture specific segments of that market properly, and advertising is a part of it. L Thammy offered a good explanation; here, I'll add this quote from Peter Drucker to make the idea even clearer
So, technically, we could say that the best marketing is the one that brings to the creation of products that are so immediately desirable by customers that they can sell by themselves...a bit of the opposite of what stated earlier
The ability to make a product more known and desirable, post-marketing process is, indeed, part of the advertising process.
And I'm going to say that Nintendo was able to advertise products that, while good, weren't so good they could sell themselves, at least initially
- Splatoon: this is a product that we can safely say (even if just now, well after its release) hit most of the right notes in terms of very good marketing, so it's not a complete perfect fit for this arguement, and one can say that the initial E3 reception made it clear it was going to sell very well. However, if it weren't for Nintendo's big advertising push, through several means, I really doubt the game would've sold as well as it did. We're talking about a colorful territory-control based shooter on a niche console, a great anomaly compared to the rest of the other games of the genre, it wasn't an instant winner at the time (this is why I stated a few words ago that NOW we can say it's a product of great marketing) but they obtained to use its features as strength...and this is how a new phenomenon in Japan was born (the game sold very well everywhere, but Japan is in a different league).
- Bravely Default: this is a JRPG experience with a very traditional look, despite several innovations included in it. A good product, but not a winner-per-se. However, Nintendo obtained to advertise the title pretty well, especially online, and the results obtained showed it did well: the game became a million seller, with the majority of sales coming from the West; in US only, the game was at > 350,000 copies sold at the end of 2014 at retail, thus around / > 400,000 when digital is included (the game did around 35,000-to-40,000 on the eShop the first month). These are great (and outdated - still, the most recent numbers shouldn't be SO MUCH higher) sales for a brand new IP in the JRPG genre in US.
- Fire Emblem: Awakening: We all know what was the state of the franchise, especially in the West, before Awakening hit the market, right? The best range they could reach was the 250,000-300,000 mark in US, for example. With Awakening, sales exploded compared to the predecessors, especially in the West. How much?
So much that while Japan saw a very good increase in popularity for the series, US sales were even higher than in Japan, and not by an ignorable margin.
- Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate While this is a Capcom title, Nintendo's influence in promotion is heavily present in the West, including the push at the New 3DS XL launch. The result? Over 1 million copies sold between Europe and US, a first for the franchise. Technically, it could be said that Nintendo's work with MH started back with Tri on Wii, but it's with 4U that even bigger results were obtained.
- Xenoblade Chronicles X Like Splatoon, this isn't the most fitting example, but for different reasons: as KingSnake answered to me on Twitter, this is a game perfectly marketable but that couldn't sell to its full potential, since it's an open world RPG. And while I can't say he's entirely wrong, I would still put it among the other examples because...it was released on Wii U, a console that was far from the best fit for an RPG of any kind: small installed base, but above all time of the release (end of 2015) and the severe lack of RPG on the platform. I'd dare to say that, just like Zelda at E3, they maximized the minimum as much as they could. The game was at 235,000 copies sold at retail in US back in February: this is a solid result for a not-high-budget game (the developers stated as such), released on probably the console representing the worst place possible for an RPG to sell on. Again, the "max-min" angle is where I'm coming from to include X in the list
I was going to include Yokai Watch as well in this list at first, and there would be good basis for it (over 400,000 in US, around 100,000 in Spain alone - a great result given the market - and costant sales in France/Spain and Italy too (unfortunately, the lack of weekly German charts doesn't allow to have a decent perspective on that market), but Hino himself stated that "looking at it from a Yo-kai Watch perspective, thats not nearly enough" (referring to NA sales), so I preferred to avoid doing it.
They're clearly not impeccable, both in terms of mere marketing (Wii U) and of mere advertising (DE 2015), but they're far from this "disaster" some people here refer to and, yes, they've been able to advertise properly and to sell /help to sell as much as possible good titles that weren't instant winners from the get go.
Ok, this came out as long as expected after all
ShockingAlberto
Member
Nintendo probably advertised PM as cheaply as possible because it is on a niche system and there is already a lot of hostility toward it.
It'll sell to people based on whether they know it exists.
It'll sell to people based on whether they know it exists.
Discomurf
Member
Not sure if this was ever mentioned in any of the hundred threads but this Wii U controller prototype could reflect some ideas for the NX.
Source:Nintendo
Source:Nintendo
Schnozberry
Member
By the way, now that a newer Tegra than Parker has been announced, can we stop saying that Pascal is far-fetched for Nintendo due to being too new now?
Nvidia announced they won't be sampling the Xavier chips until a year from now. It's also massively different and much larger than what we would expect to see in NX. It has the proprietary "Computer Vision Accelerator" for deep learning and AI, and it has a lot of silicon dedicated to high res video processors for cameras.
The only things it could really share are the 8-core ARM design and the 512 core GPU, but even that might be too large and power hungry for the NX design, unless they are clocking way down for the handheld mode.
Surely.
Come on, somebody leak something that's not BS.
The new current gen Tegra Parker, based on Pascal (what we like to call Tegra X2) would make a lot more sense, if in fact Nvidia is providing the processing hardware.
It's already suited for having twin SoCs in a relatively small form factor. Would be perfect for the SCDs.
Perhaps if it had released somewhat earlier, they could've pushed it more. All the negativity doesn't really mean much to the wider potential audience. Not to mention, it's so pretty and unique looking that it'd be easy to grab attention with.
I already know that it's not a candidate for NX. You missed the point of my post.
6-8 cores clocked below 1.5GHz and 256 Pascal CUDA cores is all that we should expect. I was just talking about people saying that it wouldn't be Pascal because Nintendo wouldn't pick a current chip.Also, the post was a joke.
I don't see any benefit of having two SoCs over one SoC and a GPU in the dock.
ALso, I really think that we need to drop the SCD talk. Everyone here seems way too confident that NX will get an SCD at some point, when the truth is that they'll most likely never see the light of day.
That was only for Japan. US and other regions didn't get confirmed until January.
Honestly, there's nothing to worry about (or discuss) until Nintendo gives the word.
Azure Dream
Member
But we at least saw the 3DS at the E3 prior, didn't we? We at least knew what it was.
Also, the 3DS was a rushed clusterfuck, with it being overpriced, missing promised features for months, and a terrible launch line-up. I don't want a repeat of that, or worse, possibly.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Next week is the week right guys?
For real though, I want to see some more Breath of the Wild. Give us some new content Nintendo!
Next week is the Mario Colour Splash week with reviews, final advertise videos and the game coming out. Everybody know a NX event announcement can't compete with it.
DarkLegion
Member
Too early for that. Still hope for this week.
5 Hours to go!
kidding
Anyways, I think we can look forward to a handheld with Tegra X2 and a console version maybe Holiday 2017.
I don't care about the hardware anymore.. Just want to know the games at this point
Obviously an SoC has a GPU included. It really doesn't matter whether the complete NX setup or ecosystem in the home is 1 SoC plus 1 GPU in the dock and/or SCD. The point I was trying to make is, Nvidia's next-next gen Tegra Xavier isn't feasible for any part of NX in the near term, but Tegra Parker is within reason, given Nvidia's roadmap. Tegra Parker is ready, Xavier is for 2018 products.
TLZ
Banned
I'm hoping for an announcement after paper Mario out, then kiosks when Christmas shopping season starts for people to try and possibly hold off until March. If not, then kiosks after new year's.
Hopefully.
Didn't they decide to be there for maximum exposure without costing them setting up costs? That's smart marketing.
TLZ
Banned
Not sure if this was ever mentioned in any of the hundred threads but this Wii U controller prototype could reflect some ideas for the NX.
Source:Nintendo
Yea we know it, thanks. A devkit for the final Wii u tablet.
Could be the same happening now. Instead this time the tablet isn't limited to home use.
I think some are looking too much into a devkit.
Schnozberry
Member
The Drive PX2 (the only Pascal based Tegra device known to exist) also has two discrete GPU's and a lot of hardware that wouldn't make any sense for a gaming console. There is no Tegra X2 for consumer electronics devices that was intended as a direct successor to the X1. Whatever Nvidia is licensing to Nintendo is custom and unlike their automotive or AI focused Tegra products. The Denver CPU cores in the PX2 are something I would hope Nintendo would avoid specifically.
I sincerely doubt we're going to see anything related to Twin SoCs for the NX as well. It's adding layers of complexity and cost where they aren't necessary. Nintendo isn't going to sell this thing on power.
Schnozberry
Member
That picture came from an Iwata Asks about the development of the Wii U. It was one of the first prototypes for the Wii U Gamepad. They toyed with the idea of having the guts of the Wii U inside the gamepad, but the tech just didn't exist in that form factor at the time.
I'm talking about a dedicated GPU. Unless having more CPU cores would prove useful, there would be more performance to gain from, say, a dedicated GP107 chip than from another Tegra chip, and likely cheaper as well.
You are way over thinking this. Parker is a chip, not a board. There's no requirement for it to be used with other chips, and there's even a version of the Drive PX2 with only one chip. Also, this is a nitpick but the "Tegra X2" technically doesn't exist; there's no chip with that name lol. but yes, Nintendo would use a custom chip.
Schnozberry
Member
That's what I said. There is no Tegra X2. The version of Parker Nvidia is producing only exists for automobiles, and wouldn't make any sense for NX. The chip itself has all kinds of silicon dedicated to things that would never be in a gaming device, like hardware decoders for security devices, image sensors, and multiple live camera feeds. It also has Denver cores, which make a lot of sense for the types of code and routines being executed in an autonomous car, but are really poor for gaming overall.
That was the whole point of my post. Looking at Nvidia's other post-X1 Tegra products is not a very good indicator of what will end up in NX. You may as well read Tea Leaves or chicken entrails.
MissCauthon
Member
3rd party for this nx thing will be mostly shovelware, free iphone and android games and of course ubisoft and EA with some shity cellphone game. Lets say that they get battlefield 1 on nx who in hell would want to play that game on sonething thats probly not even going to be stronger than a xbox one....
This is going to be the wii all over again, lots of sales and shovelware o plenty with nintendo's games.
This is going to be the wii all over again, lots of sales and shovelware o plenty with nintendo's games.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
They just don't want the concept art thread to end. It's our own fault, GAF!
James Scott
Banned
3rd party will likely be like 3DS's. I think most of the shovelware went on to mobile.
Dark Cloud
Member
Nintendo has killed all the hype of the NX. Only Nintendo can manage to drain out all the excitement people have had for the NX by waiting so long. The NX will fail. Good job Nintendo you've ruined the NX.
/s
I wonder if we'll get Jonathan Ross back to announce the EU details.
love it
Dagobert Duck
Member
But it had to be this week, even the math adds up.
This week is week number 39
N=14
X=25
NX=39
but next week is week 40 though :/
Chû Totoro
Member
Very nice
Maybe they should have put a smile on the baby or a more smiling expession in the first panels and let the last one as it is. Expression with straight mouth and big eyes is perfect here ^^
But I like it.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It was a bit deliciously ironic to see people being excited by that segment of the conference and the hype it generated even in mainstream media and knowing a kernel of those thinks conferences are a waste of resources.
I like Nintendo Directs and the Iwata Asks interviews a lot, but they do not replace a well planned and executed live conference like Apple holds at least twice a year and some classic E3 presentations or pre-E3 Ines: PS4 Reveal and last year E3 were both soooo good for Sony for example
.Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
yall better be preparing for the NX reveal soon! Michel Ancel sure is.
Dagobert Duck
Member
He is assuming BGE 2 is an NX exclusive. Which is sort of a stupid assumption.
Dagobert Duck
Member
Isnt that based on a old rumor? I think as old as the rumor that Retro is working on a new Diddy Kong Racing?
If surely doesn't look as if it's going to be published by Nintendo if Ubisoft is already trying it.
The NX exclusive rumor has been around so long now I get the feeling it isn't happening lol. It don't got the mojo.
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