-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DirectX 12 is on the way
- Thread starter Tyrax
- Start date
Well, it's a link to MSDN which is Microsoft's development network.
Yeah, sorry. I wasn't implying he is an insider or something. Just that his post is a better source.
And damn...Nirolak's split threads are scary.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Like how it's essential to have?
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
More concerned with this than with Win7 support, tbh.
Even if I upgrade my GPU, I would want to still get improvemements on my old HW.
Canis lupus
Member
This is a 2005 thread about 360 controller, how the hell did you link to this lol.
dr_rus
Member
Not all DX11 cards support DX11. DX12 will surely need DX11.2 support which puts most of todays DX11 cards out of the play.
But no, it won't be doomed because of this.
Wiktor
Member
It won't be doomed, but if they don't let it work in Windows 7 it will likely take 4-5 years before true DX12 support is standard in games.
It will launch with Windows 9. I don't think that they will support Windows 7.
Wiktor
Member
Well, then so much for anybody using it.
Not everyone is stuck on Windows 7 you know.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Considering this is how DirectX has worked since the 90's, and it seems to be doing pretty well, I'd say it will be fine. Major DirectX versions require changes to the Windows driver model, which in turn changes its interaction with the kernel, thus why you need a new OS, or a service pack for an existing one. On top of that you'll need new hardware to fully support it, but usually the most recent generation of cards support a subset (essentially what can be done at the driver level on existing cards).
This version will launch, a few companies will release games that make it really shine, and over time people will start to move over to DX12 capable systems. Games like Crysis is what pushes tech ahead, and makes people upgrade. I'm sure you remember the "But can it run Crysis?" running joke for years when it came out, as a benchmark for how powerful a PC was. This isn't like a console launch where you'll expect millions of people to be there in like a month or two. It will start slow, but will quickly pick up over time. Assuming the next-gen AMD, Intel, Nvidia GPU's support DX12, all new generations will support it. So if you're going to upgrade, at the end of this year or next year you're going to get DX12 hardware. Some people will still run Win7, just as some people still ran Windows XP for a while, and weren't able to use DX10 or DX11. It's their choice.
If you're interested, Valve tracks the DirectX adoption rate for new versions (both GPU capability and OS version), and they'll eventually add DX12 once it's available and able to be tracked.
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
Wiktor
Member
Maybe, but game making is business, not charity. Unless the API is widely avaible to users devs won't waste resources to support it properly. Same thing happened with DirectX 10, it took long long years before it actually started to get adopted as standard.
I think 200 million Windows 8 copies is wide enough no?
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-more-than-200-million-windows-8-licenses-sold-7000026325/
I don't think they will pull that shit again. with xbone using DX12 theyre going to want pc support asap. the more developers using the api over alternatives the better for Microsoft. it'll make porting between pc and xbox easier. holding it back until 2015 as a windows 9 exclusive is foolish. they need to get it to as many people as possible.
derExperte
Member
DirectX 9 was like XP, good enough for most people. It really depends how big of an advancement 12 is, if they can show games that look and/or run noticeably better the interest and willingness to upgrade should be there.
thehunter01
Banned
Most of them are probably non gaming laptops.
Doesn't say much.
They need to sell windows licenses mainly. It makes perfectly sense. The support will follow anyway if not in windows 9 it will be windows 10.
This will depend on what windows 9 and dx12 brings. If dx12 is nothing more then some added layers of visuals that drag down performance and windows 9 slows down people's computers on top of it ( vista + dx 10 ) It will be largely ignored.
If windows 9 is a faster windows 7 without the metro nonsense or having it optional rather then forced + dx 12 is a more optimized dx 11. People will shift towards it probably instantly.
Not everybody is going to be stuck on a old os, specially when support and drivers etc will probably be dropped at some point.
Iced_Eagle
Member
It is possible to come to Windows 8, but this is really only going to be done if Microsoft has another update coming for Windows 8 by the end of the year, or is planning to do an update to coincide with Windows 9 (similar to how they released the "platform update" for Vista SP2 for DX11 at the same time Windows 7 released). They're releasing an update next month, but I haven't read anything about the possibility of another Windows release this year.
DirectX11 took 16 months from announcement -> release with Win7 / Vista SP2. If Windows 9 releases early next year, under a year is still a-ok. Sooner is always better, but if we're months away from a new, major version of Windows, they may just wait.
It will be interesting to hear what they have to say about platform support at GDC. MS has their Build dev conference in April which is where Windows 9 is rumored to be announced. If the DX team doesn't give a list of platforms supported and specifically call out Windows 8 at GDC, I would start hedging my bets that it's Windows 9 only. Though, with the rumors that Windows 9 is going to focus huge on the desktop usability of Windows, I'm going to upgrade either way...
condompickle
Banned
does the xbone have enough hp to run this? or is this like putting an exhaust on a 92 civic bubbleback?
ashecitism
Member
justsomeguy
Member
I was answering to your statement that Windows 8 is a complete resource hog (assuming you mean in comparison to W7). Can you share the benchmarks - I'm interested to see where perf has gone backwards.
derExperte
Member
We don't know what 'this' exactly is right now. It could actually help to free up more resources on the X1 and give a performance boost. Or most of the stuff coming with DX12 is already in there.
Windows 8 is already much faster than Windows 7. I use it with classic shell and now it looks like Windows 7, but the overall performance is so much better.
thehunter01
Banned
From what i got out of that thread:
DX12 is going to be mantle for windows platforms
DX12 will be locked towards windows 8.2 ( if that happens ) or windows 9
1,5 year away from release of DX12 which would put it in line with windows 9.
My own rules when it comes to upgrading:
Never jump on a launch windows OS because it's terrible. have to probably wait a year for windows 9.1.
Never jump on first generation of "new dx" cards, i learned that from dx 10 / dx 11 cards which will require me to wait atleast a year.
Basically my dx 12 and windows 9.1 setup will be ready at the end of 2016 or start 2017.
This discussion has been done to death. For some people it's faster, for others it isn't.
wireless display
metro applications allows easy no hassle way of displaying supported music pictures and videos to smart tvs and other devices
Native Rar support
Native ISO and mounting support
The fact that start button now shows me places i would actually want to go to
Also this the metro app has an amazing converter and its easy to change between the 3 types of calculators
This is exactly the reason SteamOS needs to be successful. Just to unlock features for cards you've already bought, you need to shell out more money to upgrade.
thehunter01
Banned
So basically, it doesn't add much.
well those are just the things im using currently on a day to day basis
And dont give me that the only thing windows 7 gave you over vista was pinning programs to the task bar and libraries for your files
Yeah, for some a GTX780Ti is faster than a GTX580 and for some it isn't, I get it.
Abdul Hafeez
Member
I guess if it can run on X1, then it can run on PS4. And if it can run on both of those, then it can run on my GTX 680.
Edit: And as far as OS requirements go, it'll probably just be Windows 8.2 exclusive or something similar to that.
Edit: And as far as OS requirements go, it'll probably just be Windows 8.2 exclusive or something similar to that.
Only MS consoles are allowed to use DX.
Abdul Hafeez
Member
Yeah, but if X1 supports it, then Sony can add the same features to their API for PS4, and I'm sure the next major version of OpenGL will also have the same features. So that way, the same rendering features will make their way onto PS4 eventually.
thehunter01
Banned
Makes no sense.
locking dx12 to windows 9 is foolish. its not a selling point to anyone. performance increase is a selling point.
if windows 7 with dx12 runs GameX at 45fps while windows 9 optimised for dx12 runs it at 55fps people will make the jump for that.
that will depend on what dx12 adds and how Microsoft designed the xbox chip. if Microsoft was forward thinking with dx12 on xbox certain features/performance benefits could be xbox exclusive. you can always fake some stuff with custom programming but you take a performance hit. its really hard to say what the new api will bring to xbox but I look forward to this announcement. would be nice if they announce a xbone controller driver for windows while they're at it.
Not sure if this rumor was brought up already, but I just had a conversation on facebook with someone who believes something crazy.
Is this basically what this thread is about? I was looking for the best place to post this.
It's nonsense from misterxmedia
The difference is that these days it has real competition. Competition which runs on a lot more platforms. Making the set of supported platforms for DirectX effectively even smaller than it already is by definition doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Who's misterxmedia? I guess I could google it, but I imagine you guys know what's really up.
Dictator93
Member
Not sure if this rumor was brought up already, but I just had a conversation on facebook with someone who believes something crazy.
Is this basically what this thread is about? I was looking for the best place to post this.
Your friend is talking insane stuff. Like that whole ray tracing shenanigans...
Anything I can point to that can prove him wrong?
Was it ever explained why it looks like that? Aesthetics?
Dictator93
Member
To read about the things that he writes about, instead just using them as talking points.
That no amount of processing available in the xb1 could possibly render ray tracing in realtime. Tell him to look at the metrics of real time ray tracing (not screen space ray casting... which is not even the same thing).. and then compare it to the known specs of the xbox 1.
So much so is this reality, that even Nvidia has pointed out multiple times in recent years how ray tracing is very unfeasible for real time render performance on GPUs with 5X the power as the xb1.
Begaria
Member
It's a livejournal ran by a user named misterxmedia. He claims to have an insider (but has never specified where said insider is an insider from) whom just happens to know everything that's happening in Microsoft. There's also a user on this livejournal called mistercmedia that posts these insane "findings" and "research" of pictures and posts with him drawing all over it and adding in text to show definitive proof of secret sauce in the Xbox One. Believe it or not, this livejournal has a cult following of a bunch of posters that seem to think that:
1. Sony has paid off everyone in the industry, because they totally have the money to do that.
2. Sony is financially near bankruptcy, having to sell off buildings, properties, parts of their business just to stay afloat but somehow still have the money to pay off everyone and brainwash the entire internet.
3. The slightest hint of Xbox One having a slight edge over PS4 instantly turns into having double the power over the PS4, that DirectX12 will somehow make the Xbox One have more power than the PS4 (contrary to the belief that the PS4 has better hardware).
4. The Xbox One has a dual layer on its SOC, a top layer that is everything Microsoft has confirmed to be in the Xbox One (32 MB ESRAM, 8 Gigs DDR3, 1.75 GHZ 8 Core CPU, and graphic capabilities of ~1.31 TF), and a second layer that holds what they believe to be a discrete GPU/hidden graphic power/"secret sauce" that was hidden from everyone but the "Tier 1 developers" of Microsoft (i.e. Turn 10/343 Studios), and would gradually allow Tier2 (i.e. Crytek) and Tier 3 (most multiplatform developers) to access this second layer when all of the drivers and Direct X12 would hit.
5. If you like Sony at all, you're instantly a Sony Pony. If you post on NeoGaf: Sony Pony. If you post on any major gaming media with positivity towards PS4: you're a Pony. Ponies everywhere.
6. The past week of bad news for Sony/Playstation (SSM layoffs, Amy leaving ND, Jack stepping down) was the greatest week for this livejournal with tons of hoots and hollering that "Sony is finally getting what they deserved", coupled with the DX12 reveal that this is now the "turning point where Microsoft will obliterate Sony", and "Sony Ponies faces will melt". On top of all of this, Titanfall will drop on Xbox One and will therefore instantly win the 8th generation for Microsoft, forever.
It's an intriguing thing to read through, and god damn hilarious. I'm addicted to that website. They even used a picture I posted on NeoGaf in their post a couple of days ago, heh.
I like this cult, where do I sign up?
Wow... thanks for filling me in on that so thoroughly. It certainly sounds insane and desperate.
It has only cemented my dislike of conspiracy theorists of every kind.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Boyo, why are you wasting time to read this garbage. It would be funny at first, but I don't know for how long.
LukasTaves
Member
Common sense.
It makes zero sense to have two gpus instead of a bigger single one, and even if Ms were crazy enough to try it, enabling a secret gpu would drive the power consumption up.