SolarMystic
Member
As long as they keep it up with putting out great games and turn enough profit to keep the division going, who cares who "wins"?
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Do you think Microsoft will ever win a generation in sales?
- Thread starter daTRUballin
- Start date
Kilau
Member
MS has enough money that they could subsidize any division to market leader status if they really wanted to, of course shareholders would probably revolt at that.
The chance may have passed in a traditional sense though because it seems the industry is moving away from the old cycle rather quickly.
The chance may have passed in a traditional sense though because it seems the industry is moving away from the old cycle rather quickly.
fatherKratos
Neo Member
A crazy line up of first party exclusives like Sony & Nintendo...then...may be...
hurricanes
Member
Of course. If they play their cards right they definitely could. Most gamers aren't hardcore console warriors in a forum and could easily turn if MS's next console in has good words of mouth/is consider "cool" among general players.
Not with anything like X1 though.
Not with anything like X1 though.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Even with great word of mouth it is a tough sell worldwide.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
So no chance then.
Mass Effect
Member
I guess it could happen. Maybe something major happens like Sony going out of business/Playstation suddenly tanking worldwide or Nintendo going third-party and developing games exclusively for Xbox.
In other words, it's probably not happening any time soon.
In other words, it's probably not happening any time soon.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
The 360 was their best shot.
Had RROD not happened and had they not all but abandoned 1st party development when Kinect took off, there's every chance they would have won last gen.
They're never going to leave a new console out long enough to be the "market leader" anymore. They'll be releasing an upgrade every 3 or 4 years. For Microsoft now it's purely about getting people in the ecosystem and keeping them engaged.
Had RROD not happened and had they not all but abandoned 1st party development when Kinect took off, there's every chance they would have won last gen.
They're never going to leave a new console out long enough to be the "market leader" anymore. They'll be releasing an upgrade every 3 or 4 years. For Microsoft now it's purely about getting people in the ecosystem and keeping them engaged.
daTRUballin
Member
This is blatantly untrue. I'm pretty sure the NES sold around 60 million units and the SNES came pretty close with having sold around 49 million units. But the Wii and NES were the only Nintendo consoles to sell more than 50 million though.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Probably playing his Wii.
Dredd97
Member
it is untrue
the NES sold about 64 Mil WW and the SNES about 49 Mil like you say...
The worry for Ninty is that the wii was a rare beast for them, because if you look at the data (and ignore the wii) their home console market share has declined with every platform release... does this bode well for the Switch?
Exclusives don't sell consoles,thats why MS is doing the Scorpio, to be the best multiplat console on the market.
fatherKratos
Neo Member
Then i dnt think this will ever happen for MS. Scorpio becomes the best when it releases, an yr or two after that PS5 releases, and it becomes best...then Scorpio S...then PS5 pro....
Lord of Ostia
Member
How do you explain the PS2 generation then? Sure, the PS2 had a cheaper price point and was a DVD player, but on top of that it had tons of great first and third party exclusive games. Final Fantasy, MGS, GTA, not to mention Sony's own first party output. Some of the biggest games of the generation were exclusive. The market has changed a bit, sure, but having the most power has never been the most important thing to a console's success. Pricepoint and exclusives are probably the most important factors in shifting hardware.
Yeah. I mean MS has enough money to buy themselves to the top if they really wanted to. Drop 30 billion on buying studios and maybe whole publishers and they could rapidly swing the market. Or subsidize $200 per console.
But that would be insane and never pay for itself so no. As it stands their corporate culture, while much improved over the reign of Ratface Mattrick still doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence for a future leadership position in the market.
Unknown Soldier
Member
MS is perceived as being a US-centric company, and they are. Without the worldwide gaming market, they will never even get a whiff of first place in any generation ever.
michaelius
Banned
It's theoretically possible since they have almost infinite coffers full of Office and cloud money.
But they would need to realize that world exist beyond their tier 1 countries and start investing into smaller countries as USA has no growth left in their market while Sony is capturing everything else.
But they would need to realize that world exist beyond their tier 1 countries and start investing into smaller countries as USA has no growth left in their market while Sony is capturing everything else.
Things aren't this simple.
Many hardcore gamers do worship Sony this gen, because MS started it by giving them the finger, while Sony (shamelessly even) decided to cater to them heavily, with the used games thing first, and with moves like FF7R after.
To me the thing is, Sony in the PS1 and PS2 days was sitting on a throne of Third Party exclusives, then the rug got pulled from under them at the start of the PS360 generation, as the 360 became the go-to console for third parties, for a lot of people, and what Sony did is they spent that entire generation building a very strong line up of first party studios and first party brands, instead of chasing endlessly after third party exclusives.
At the tail end of last gen, as a consumer you felt like you Ps3 still had a lot to say, whereas your 360 was left to whatever third parties were willing to do on it, this meant that at the start of the new cycle, investment in a PS4 seemed more reasonable, in terms of future support you would've got, and i think that remains more or less true.
Although Microsoft did have some strong first party titles this gen, several of them (all of them going forward) are shared with PC, and some moves to appease the HC crowd didn't even pan out (Phantom Dust getting cancelled, for example).
All of this stuff mixed together just give you the impression, from a consumer standpoint, that Sony is in it to win it, whereas Microsoft is, as usual, going back and forth on whether they want to also be a gaming company or not.
But on PC they are no different, they promised they cared about for decades now, yet they never really do.
All this is probably due to Sony being more desperate than they are, for their gaming division to work, though.
That is not to discredit the many good things they've done of course, but this gen in particular, Sony seem to go for the throat by pandering to the hardcore crowd, so you need to be as relentless, if you want to get ahead of them.
Also, yes the biggest blow against them was simply launching 100$ pricier with a worse console, and when all your friends got a PS4 for that reason, and when all the third parties start to support the ps4 more, for that reason, it's really an uphill climb.
Mass Effect
Member
{insert code here}
Member
Not until they actually start investing in international markets and taking them seriously. Sony, and to a lesser extent Nintendo, have had no choice but to attack various global markets because of the stagnant Japanese market. If they didn't find new customers elsewhere they would've perished. MS has a strong enough base in Amerika to not need those international sales to survive but this has been a double edged sword on them. They got complacent and seem to be okay with banking those NA customers which is fine if you've got massive market share in that region. But when you're competition swoops in and takes a nice chunk of your share of the pie then you've got an Xbone situation.
Maximus P
Member
I'm convinced that Sony could release a weaker console, with far fewer exclusives and features at twice the price and they would still get better sales in certain European countries.
Luckily for MS, there are countries out there that aren't as brand loyal. They could be the best seller, but it would take a lot for them to achieve.
Luckily for MS, there are countries out there that aren't as brand loyal. They could be the best seller, but it would take a lot for them to achieve.
UnluckyKate
Member
Plan is simple : we kill the Europe.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
6TF and having the best version of Red Dead Redemption 2 isn't going to make them market leader though. A lot of the biggest games are multiplatform, sure, but exclusives do count for something.
No, it isn't. And the sooner Americans realise this, the better.
Yeah they can. Nintendo have gone from a 100 million plus selling console to a less than 10 million selling console.
All they have to do is tap in to what the market wants and if Sony become arrogant again with the PS5 anything can happen.
That being said I enjoy all 3 consoles and I'm not bothered in the slightest by sales. In fact usually the lower selling console ends up being better as they play catch up.
All they have to do is tap in to what the market wants and if Sony become arrogant again with the PS5 anything can happen.
That being said I enjoy all 3 consoles and I'm not bothered in the slightest by sales. In fact usually the lower selling console ends up being better as they play catch up.
If anything this gen has showed that exclusives don't matter much outside of the ones that are from well established series from previous gens.
PS4 is selling well for the same reasons the 360 did in the territories it dominated in -- it's a solid console for popular third party titles. That's not to say that exclusives don't matter at all... it's to simply say that the industry is changing a lot, and games are moving away from being true exclusives in part due to budgets. System and/or digital features are going to be just as important for people as exclusives are -- if not more so especially when many that are into console gaming these days are mostly playing multiplats.
There's an argument made on this very page - and one which has considerable evidence to support it - that Wii was a fluke and WiiU fits a long-term pattern of sales decline for Nintendo home consoles.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I'm pretty sure Xbox has always been grouped together with a bunch of other stuff (entertainment devices or something division) to obscure what they may or may not be making from the Xbox division. Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm remembering wrong.
So Xbox could also have a fluke couldn't they?
Sorry, but "brand loyalty" is not a big deal like people would believe. Otherwise, Nintendo would still be #1 after the Nes / SNes. For Microsoft to win sales, they need to release a console that is noticeably more power and similar price to Sony. Thus, it would get all the "best" and/or exclusive big 3rd party software, like COD, GTA and etc. To do that, like the old days, Microsoft would have to take a loss on hardware launch. Don't see them doing that so, nope. Not happening.
PackAPunchedMick
Member
Devilgunman
Member
That's a lot of claims out off thin air. Do you have any source to back you up on these? because it surely sounds ridiculous.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Power doesn't sell consoles either, despite what you hear on gaming forums. If MS thinks people are gonna flock to the Scorpio just cause it does 4k better than the PS4 Pro they're in for a rude awakening.
Auto-Reply
Member
I don't think that will happen but nothing is impossible, I mean tomorrow SEGA could come out with the Dreamcast 2 and dominate the market in a few years... I doubt that will happen but it's not impossible.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
I guess Seuss and Taves must be off pooling their resources to get us those numbers.
Possible, but unlikely. For 4 key reasons:
1) Microsoft have an America first everyone else second mentality. Do you like to feel like an after-thought? Exactly.
2) Microsoft has a negative reputation around the world. The anti-trust issues, the BSOD, the Nokia purchase, the RROD, the astroturfing, moving a picture in Word/PowerPoint, the always-online no used games sign the attendance sheet vision, Internet Explorer, the collaboration with the NSA, Clippy, virtually all viruses being associated with Windows, the list goes on. Unlike Apple, Microsoft is viewed as an American company that has done more harm than good. Very tough to shake this off.
3) Xbox is, to a lot of people, just a slightly different PlayStation. Unlike Nintendo hardware, Xbox is seen as 'the other hardware that can run the same games as PlayStation'. I think this perspective is largely unfair, because a lot of it started with a product completely unrelated to the Xbox (i.e. Zune), and rather than give Microsoft a chance to prove themselves through Xbox software and Xbox hardware innovation (e.g. Forza, Kinect), the brand is prematurely written off and viewed as the Samsung/Pepsi/Yahoo/etc. of console gaming. A lot of people don't like to be associated with the 'wannabe' product, so the sales of the product will naturally suffer.
4) In order for Microsoft to be #1, they need to beat both Sony and Nintendo. For some reason, Microsoft doesn't seem to 'get' that their concern should be the guy coming from the back (in this case, Nintendo) and not the guy in first place. It's this misunderstanding of the current and future market that could very likely result in the Switch outperforming the Xbox One and Xbox Two/Scorpio/Whatever they end up calling it next year. To put this differently, Microsoft should focus less on taking someone else's spot and focus more on preventing someone else from taking their spot.
1) Microsoft have an America first everyone else second mentality. Do you like to feel like an after-thought? Exactly.
2) Microsoft has a negative reputation around the world. The anti-trust issues, the BSOD, the Nokia purchase, the RROD, the astroturfing, moving a picture in Word/PowerPoint, the always-online no used games sign the attendance sheet vision, Internet Explorer, the collaboration with the NSA, Clippy, virtually all viruses being associated with Windows, the list goes on. Unlike Apple, Microsoft is viewed as an American company that has done more harm than good. Very tough to shake this off.
3) Xbox is, to a lot of people, just a slightly different PlayStation. Unlike Nintendo hardware, Xbox is seen as 'the other hardware that can run the same games as PlayStation'. I think this perspective is largely unfair, because a lot of it started with a product completely unrelated to the Xbox (i.e. Zune), and rather than give Microsoft a chance to prove themselves through Xbox software and Xbox hardware innovation (e.g. Forza, Kinect), the brand is prematurely written off and viewed as the Samsung/Pepsi/Yahoo/etc. of console gaming. A lot of people don't like to be associated with the 'wannabe' product, so the sales of the product will naturally suffer.
4) In order for Microsoft to be #1, they need to beat both Sony and Nintendo. For some reason, Microsoft doesn't seem to 'get' that their concern should be the guy coming from the back (in this case, Nintendo) and not the guy in first place. It's this misunderstanding of the current and future market that could very likely result in the Switch outperforming the Xbox One and Xbox Two/Scorpio/Whatever they end up calling it next year. To put this differently, Microsoft should focus less on taking someone else's spot and focus more on preventing someone else from taking their spot.
Malcolm9
Member
Keep dreaming, I can't see MS ever doing that whilst Sony and Nintendo are about.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
It's not that simple. You're seriously underestimating mindshare. Having a more powerful and similarly priced console to Sony isn't going to help them. It couldn't win them last generation even when Sony made the amount of fuck ups that they did, so why would it win them a generation now? The PS3 doing as well as it did is proof the brand loyalty is worth something, or are we forgetting that the PS3 outsold the 360 YoY up until Kinect released?
Caddyshack
Banned
sems4arsenal
Member
If they buy Nintendo sure
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Nope. PlayStation is a much, much stronger brand than Xbox in most of the world. Even with the PS3 "fuck up" Sony eventually beat MS (I think?).
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Honestly anything can happen, my hope is they diversify their exclusive game offerings.
No, the did not. Sony revealed PSN MAUs and PS+ subscriber numbers earlier this year and the PSN MAUs were well above Xbox Live MAUs.
Here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1240380
Sony had 21 million paid PS+ subscribers and 60+ million MAUs.
Latest MAUs number from Xbox was 47 million: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1297630