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[sibarraz]

At this point MS is rebuilding the brand, they have take the right steps into that future, and I think that the scorpio will be a sucess.

But I doubt that they will "win" a generation, and at this point don't know how relevant will be that, they want the xbox to be as profitable as posible and to suck the most people to be possible into their ecosystem

 

[Primethius]

Not until they start building thier brand world wide, which hasn't happened yet so I doubt they are winning one anytime soon.

They seem to have doubled down on US/UK.

 

[Hitta93]

Possibly with Scorpio, if that counts as a new gen.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

All I know is as much as I have been a fan and spent a lot of money over the years in their ecosystem, I am beyond bored of the Halo, Forza & Gears games as their main studio offerings. That's not going to change anytime soon either I suspect.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Not numbers aren't that important to them, also to me they won in last gen, they sold more than PS3 in America and just a few milions less worldwide, but to me they won cause they managed to get competitive and to sell as much a as PS3 after PS2 sold 150 milion consoles, putting them in a great situation and brand recognition

That's like saying the oXbox won its gen because it managed to sell slightly more than the GC.

The Wii won last gen and the 360 ultimately finished in last place.

 

[Aizen.S.Kennedy]

That's like saying the oXbox won its gen because it managed to sell slightly more than the GC.

The Wii won last gen and the 360 ultimately finished in last place.

It seems like Xbox fanboys forget the wii existed last gen. I wonder why that is

 

[Aztechnology]

If they can start getting PC right they might start winning from a software perspective.

 

[yuraya]

They need to abandon their HaloGearsForza formula and go back to the drawing board if they want to win a generation. Those games have been going on forever and many are tired of it. Let those games rest for 5-10 years while building new first party stuff. Building more dev teams too. They need more hits, mascots, killer apps and if they can't get them they need to acquire/moneyhat other stuff to build upon. By moneyhat I mean actual moneyhats and not timed stuff. Also they need much better support in Japan/Europe. I don't really know how they can do that tho. Maybe do something crazy with a Minecraft 2.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Sure they will. It's Sony. People worship them as if the company can see them as anything other than just a number. "Uncharted 5 guys? TLoU 3? Look at these graphics guys. It's the Naughty Gods! AMIRIGHT AMIRIGHT?!?!? I mean no BC, no folders again, and we're not going to allow you to stream video files anymore either, but PS5. Greatness is still waiting!"

This explains a lot.

I don't know if it's very likely, but it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility. I personally don't think it'll happen any time soon, if at all.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Sure they will. It's Sony. People worship them as if the company can see them as anything other than just a number. "Uncharted 5 guys? TLoU 3? Look at these graphics guys. It's the Naughty Gods! AMIRIGHT AMIRIGHT?!?!? I mean no BC, no folders again, and we're not going to allow you to stream video files anymore either, but PS5. Greatness is still waiting!"

I can't wait for Fall 2017.

 

[killatopak]

Very unlikely.

 

[Zesh]

I think it's pretty unlikely outside of possibly North America. The Sony/PlayStation brand is just much more popular worldwide, particularly in Europe and Asia. That said, the 360 put in a pretty valiant effort.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I definitely agree. I just feel that the backlash of not having backwards compatibility is going to be far greater/louder from here on out.

On Gaf, sure.

As the lines become blurred from a generational standpoint it becomes increasingly important, especially as more and more users are shifting towards digital.

Imagine if everytime there was an iPhone/iPad refresh everyone had to start from scratch from a software perspective. Do you think that Apple would still maintain the ability to retain over 80% of their userbase if they did this?

This is the direction we are heading in in the console space and if the manufacturers want to "lock in" large proportions of their current active userbases then that's the best way to go about it.

Consider how the PS3 launched and what it was able to do in spite of all that.

No BC isn't going to mean anything for the PS brand. It is too strong WW. I do think the next PS will have it but yeah.

 

[Rolf NB]

So Xbox could also have a fluke couldn't they?

The Xbox 360 already came and went. That was Microsoft's fluke. Perfect one-time constellation. Never again.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

I definitely agree. I just feel that the backlash of not having backwards compatibility is going to be far greater/louder from here on out.

Not really. People won't magically decide to buy a new console just because it plays their older console games.

It's a good thing to have but not a system seller.

 

[DigSCCP]

They had a chance with Xbox One.
They blew it.

 

[Bgamer90]

On Gaf, sure.

Consider how the PS3 launched and what it was able to do in spite of all that.

No BC isn't going to mean anything for the PS brand. It is too strong WW. I do think the next PS will have it but yeah.

Again, using examples of older consoles (PS3) doesn't really fit well here. All three console companies are pushing digital compatibility with the ability to use purchased content on different hardware. Tech designed for entertainment purposes (game consoles, tablets, streaming boxes, etc.) has moved in this direction, therefore causing many outside of just the hardcore gaming crowd to expect it.

Not really. People won't magically decide to buy a new console just because it plays their older console games.

It's a good thing to have but not a system seller.

Never said it was a system seller or that it was make or break. Simply saying that more people are going to expect it as more companies increase their push of digital libraries as well as release console models more frequently. Sony is setting up that expectation via those strategies and if the PS5 doesn't have backwards compatibility then there will definitely be people (and again, not just hardcore gamers) that will be upset about it.

 

[RibMan]

Not numbers aren't that important to them, also to me they won in last gen, they sold more than PS3 in America and just a few milions less worldwide, but to me they won cause they managed to get competitive and to sell as much a as PS3 after PS2 sold 150 milion consoles, putting them in a great situation and brand recognition

I get what you're saying, but I think some of it isn't accurate:

1) For Microsoft, numbers don't matter to them until they outsell the competition. We know this to be true. We saw this a month or two ago when they outsold the PS4 in the US and in the UK by 1,500 consoles, and they rolled out the trumpets, the choir, and the theremin player to announce their hardware victory. They didn't actually do that, but they made sure their PR person earned their pay. If you believe they don't care about numbers that's ok, but there's not a single known corporation in the world that doesn't care about numbers.

2) They didn't win last gen. The Wii took last gen, and second place -- to date -- is still a guessing game due to the absence of a 'final' tally. Most people agree and or believe that the PS3 overtook the 360, but I don't have any numbers that can verify that to be true. 360 won NA against the PS3: you're not wrong about that. I'd go even further and say that were it not for Sony's late-gen efforts with UC3, Journey, and TLoU, and were it not for Microsoft stumbling with Halo 4, Xbox would have taken the title of best software of last-gen.

3) With the 360, they did put themselves in a great position. They recovered from RROD, knocked it out of the park with XBLA, made Xbox Live the best multiplayer network on consoles, and although it never actually worked as advertised, the Kinect boosted their hardware sales to new heights. Now here's where it all went wrong. What they ended up doing -- by "they" I'm referring to Don Mattrick, Phil Spencer, Yusuf Mehdi, Aaron Greenberg, and others -- is adopting a mentality towards console gamers that they've held towards PC gamers for a long long time. It goes a little something like this:

"F*** you, pay me."

This mentality resulted in a product and a vision for their gaming arm that was so headscratch-worthy that you seriously started to wonder if they were planning an exit from the console business. You seriously questioned if the Keighley interview and the Major Nelson This Is Sh*t tour and the Agent Phil confusion were calculated moves to devalue the Xbox brand as much as possible. It was just so bizarre!

So overall, you're not wrong: they got the brand recognition with the Xbox 360. But with the Xbox One, they killed any whatsoever goodwill and brand recognition they had created with the 360, and this is why we're now seeing MAUs and number of times a cat meowed next to an Xbox blanket as a metric they use to 'announce' hardware figures. It's unbelievable how much those four guys damaged the Xbox brand.

 

[Melchiah]

And half a year after launch it did cost 399€ and thus was on the same level as the 360.
On top of no online fee and a freely upgradeable hdd.

So, it was priced the same two years after the 360 launched, yet still managed to catch up its lead.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I get what you're saying, but I think some of it isn't accurate:

1) For Microsoft, numbers don't matter to them until they outsell the competition. We know this to be true. We saw this a month or two ago when they outsold the PS4 in the US and in the UK by 1,500 consoles, and they rolled out the trumpets, the choir, and the theremin player to announce their hardware victory. They didn't actually do that, but they made sure their PR person earned their pay. If you believe they don't care about numbers that's ok, but there's not a single known corporation in the world that doesn't care about numbers.

2) They didn't win last gen. The Wii took last gen, and second place -- to date -- is still a guessing game due to the absence of a 'final' tally. Most people agree and or believe that the PS3 overtook the 360, but I don't have any numbers that can verify that to be true. 360 won NA against the PS3: you're not wrong about that. I'd go even further and say that were it not for Sony's late-gen efforts with UC3, Journey, and TLoU, and were it not for Microsoft stumbling with Halo 4, Xbox would have taken the title of best software of last-gen.

3) With the 360, they did put themselves in a great position. They recovered from RROD, knocked it out of the park with XBLA, made Xbox Live the best multiplayer network on consoles, and although it never actually worked as advertised, the Kinect boosted their hardware sales to new heights. Now here's where it all went wrong. What they ended up doing -- by "they" I'm referring to Don Mattrick, Phil Spencer, Yusuf Mehdi, Aaron Greenberg, and others -- is adopting a mentality towards console gamers that they've held towards PC gamers for a long long time. It goes a little something like this:

"F*** you, pay me."

This mentality resulted in a product and a vision for their gaming arm that was so headscratch-worthy that you seriously started to wonder if they were planning an exit from the console business. You seriously questioned if the Keighley interview and the Major Nelson This Is Sh*t tour and the Agent Phil confusion were calculated moves to devalue the Xbox brand as much as possible. It was just so bizarre!

So overall, you're not wrong: they got the brand recognition with the Xbox 360. But with the Xbox One, they killed any whatsoever goodwill and brand recognition they had created with the 360, and this is why we're now seeing MAUs and number of times a cat meowed next to an Xbox blanket as a metric they use to 'announce' hardware figures. It's unbelievable how much those four guys damaged the Xbox brand.

So I would assume you are not in the Phil Spencer we trust camp

 

[butman]

Nope.
Sony is the Daddy, Nintendo the Mommy and Microsoft the cat.

 

[Trago]

Microsoft needs to get more global. The means by which they do that is on them. I think building a Japanese studio would go a long way in helping with that. They really need to diversify the titles that come to their platform.

And even then, I'm not sure that they will 'win' a generation, heck I'm not sure winning a generation in sales matters as much anymore. They are looking to Windows to expand their reach/ecosystem.

 

[AmFreak]

So, it was priced the same two years after the 360 launched, yet still managed to catch up its lead.

Yep, it's not as if the lead was big.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Sure they will. It's Sony. People worship them as if the company can see them as anything other than just a number. "Uncharted 5 guys? TLoU 3? Look at these graphics guys. It's the Naughty Gods! AMIRIGHT AMIRIGHT?!?!? I mean no BC, no folders again, and we're not going to allow you to stream video files anymore either, but PS5. Greatness is still waiting!"

Wow, you need to take some time off?

 

[Ricky_R]

It's all about MAUs now. Sales only matter if you're on top.

 

[Melchiah]

Yep, it's not as if the lead was big.

Which goes to show how small chance Microsoft has getting the upper hand in Europe. That was the best they could do when the competition stumbled, and they had the advantage of launching first, being cheaper, and having better multiplatforms.

 

[Megatron]

Microsoft makes xbox and windows. I am pretty sure they have won the last two gens at least.

 

[xxracerxx]

Microsoft makes xbox and windows. I am pretty sure they have won the last two gens at least.

Sony made the walkman...they have won the last 30 years.

 

[LAM09]

They won't while Sony is around.

 

[Regginator]

Worldwide, not a chance. Their brand outside NA and EU isn't strong.

FTFY

 

[N.Domixis]

FTFY

You broke it.

 

[Chill Penguin]

I would never say never with a company as large as Microsoft. Sony and Nintendo are both tiny companies in comparison, and Microsoft under Nadella is really pushing synergy between divisions unlike under Ballmer where they were their own separate entities. If the Surface team would assist in designing the Scorpio for example it would be huge. It's also a windows 10 device, so imagine if Scorpio had a desktop mode and Xbox mode? There are a lot of possibilities for the Xbox in coming years, it'll be interesting to see which direction they go.

 

[Bioshocker]

No, they're moving beyond generations.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I'll never say never, but probably never...

I think they could easily win U.S & UK again, brand is still strong here in the states. World wide is probably over.

 

[AmFreak]

Which goes to show how small chance Microsoft has getting the upper hand in Europe. That was the best they could do when the competition stumbled, and they had the advantage of launching first, being cheaper, and having better multiplatforms.

There was not a single country were they won because of the lead they had before Sony launched. They won in the US and the UK cause they constantly outsold Sony.
Being cheaper was only true for half a year and the difference in multis didn't matter as much, because the difference wasn't as big and marketable as today and the general sentiment was (is) that the ps3 is the most powerful console and devs need time to learn to handle it.
You also only listed the advantages of the 360, but not those of the ps3.
Most of those ps3 advantages fell flat this gen and that's the reason why this gen was Microsoft's best chance.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Well, Microsoft is abandoning generations, so the answer will be technically no. Instead, the question should be can Microsoft's consoles consistently Sony's for a long period of time? My answer to that question will still be no mainly because of Japanese games and Microsoft's weaker 1st party support.

 

[eerik9000]

It's all about MAUs now. Sales only matter if you're on top.

They're significantly behind Sony in MAUs too. 47 million Xbox Live vs 60+ million PSN.

 

[Jumeira]

US is absolutely possible (they did with X360), EU is possible if they do a better job in other big countries like France and Germany. Japan, no, never. Japanese don't like to buy American hardware if a competent Japanese alternative is available.

 

[Celine]

I have no crystal ball however keep in mind that the number of company who "won" a console gen in 40 years of videogame history is a measly 3 (or 2 if we exclude the very first generation).

 

[jroc74]

They're significantly behind Sony in MAUs too. 47 million Xbox Live vs 60+ million PSN.

Which is why its even more funny MS brings it up.

And kinda curious why Sony doesnt.

 

[El Topo]

I don't get why people pretend that e.g. Europe is this unconquerable territory. It's not like Microsoft has really tried.

 

[sense]

I don't get why people pretend that e.g. Europe is this unconquerable territory. It's not like Microsoft has really tried.

Outside of getting FIFA as exclusive not sure what they can do. Not sure what you mean by trying. Any ideas?

 

[Joni]

Outside of getting FIFA as exclusive not sure what they can do. Not sure what you mean by trying. Any ideas?

More varied exclusives, advertising, supporting the right language in every country, local deals for apps, not dividing them into tier 1 and 2 countries. You know, doing the things they do for the US and UK for any other country.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

All their games are on PC. If they had less than 1% chance, that's gone now.

 

[Salty Hippo]

Which is why its even more funny MS brings it up.

And kinda curious why Sony doesnt.

The difference in console sales is 2:1. The difference in MAUs is a little over 1.25:1. It's really simple.

 

[LiquidSolid]

I don't get why people pretend that e.g. Europe is this unconquerable territory. It's not like Microsoft has really tried.

"Bu-bu-but they weren't trying anyway!"

Really?

 

[Mass_Pincup]

"Bu-bu-but they weren't trying anyway!"

Really?

People willing to buy an XB1 at launch had to import because they were deemed as being "tier 2"

Albert Penello came in this very forum and had to be told that Europe is not a country and he's the boss of MS Competitive Strategy division.

I would consider that to be no trying yes.

 

[n0razi]

Sure they will. It's Sony. People worship them as if the company can see them as anything other than just a number. "Uncharted 5 guys? TLoU 3? Look at these graphics guys. It's the Naughty Gods! AMIRIGHT AMIRIGHT?!?!? I mean no BC, no folders again, and we're not going to allow you to stream video files anymore either, but PS5. Greatness is still waiting!"

I come to gaf to read these posts

 

[Aostia]

I dont think so

 

[Megatron]

Sony made the walkman...they have won the last 30 years.

Can you buy and play videogames on a walkman?