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Do you think Microsoft will ever win a generation in sales?
- Thread starter daTRUballin
- Start date
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Umm, its to highlight the possibility.
I think Joni already brought up some good points.
I could list more things, e.g. their US-centric reveal or how several of their franchises are not even available in Germany, but I fear that would just lead to list wars and ultimately miss the point.
I don't think all these things matter by themselves in the long run, e.g. the average consumer does not care about the X1 reveal.
I think the general positioning of their console as a multi-media machine in combination with all of this however shaped the image of X1 in a very negative way.
Europe is not a magical wonderland where people just naturally hate Microsoft and love Sony. When you are behind Wii U (at least in August 2016) in some territories you don't get to use that excuse.
They will simply have to do better next time.
Humdinger
Member
I won't say "never," but I don't expect MS to win WW in the next couple decades, unless Sony implodes or self-destructs (which I suppose is a possibility).
I do think MS will end up winning NA this generation. We will hear a lot about that in the coming years.
Probably because if you consider the install base, Sony "ought" to have twice as many PSN users as MS, but they only have about 30% more. So the number is in Xbox's favor, if you consider install base. Need a new metric, MAU per user or something.
I do think MS will end up winning NA this generation. We will hear a lot about that in the coming years.
Probably because if you consider the install base, Sony "ought" to have twice as many PSN users as MS, but they only have about 30% more. So the number is in Xbox's favor, if you consider install base. Need a new metric, MAU per user or something.
It is also 'validating' MAU as a measure if they bring it up while seemingly obfuscating their own strength, console sales.
Leyasu
Banned
I live in France which is Sony territory. After the ps4 reveal, I asked all my colleagues if they were going to preorder it. They all said the same thing, " the 360 was a good console, that some of them had missed out on" so they wanted to see what Microsoft was releasing before preordering..
Well, after the shockingly bad reveal, and specs reveal, I don't think anyone needs two guesses as to what they got...
Microsoft are basically back to where they were with the og Xbox
I don't think they particularly cared about Europe. They focused on the US and probably got burned harder than they had expected.
Agree. I think it's pretty obvious that they felt they could double up on America in hopes they could be #1 in overall (worldwide) sales from it.
Honestly, if they didn't make so many mistakes then the Xbox One possibly could have dominated North America in a similar fashion to the PS2 during its time thanks to the HUGE drop that Nintendo took.
DriftingSpirit
Member
And I don't disagree with that. I just don't think that will translate into anything meaningful in the sales outcome.
I personally disagree. I don't think it will be a HUGE dent in sales but I think it will be noticeable if Sony (and MS) wants to continue on pushing iterative consoles and digital services.
People would cling on to the PS4/Pro longer if the PS5 doesn't have backwards compatibility -- especially if Sony's console brand exclusives will be on both the PS4 and PS5 in the PS5's first 2-3 years; I could see being the case due to the PS4's large user base.
Honestly, there's no positives for Sony to not make the PS5 backwards compatible though I again don't think they would be instantly doomed if the PS5 didn't have it.
eerik9000
Member
The growth of Xbox Live MAUs comes from Windows 10 devices and Minecraft on iOS/Android.
PSN: PS3, PS4, PS Vita
Xbox Live: Xbox 360, Xbox One, Windows 10 devices, iOS devices, Android devices
visiblemode
Member
Worldwide it'll be tough. Anything is possible though, going forward, depending on what they do, their competition does and how the global market shifts.
It's a boring answer but I think it's accurate.
It's a boring answer but I think it's accurate.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Not "instantly" doomed but eventually doomed? Or eventual hurt from it?
Mm, we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree. I just think the overall brand of PS is far too potent WW (in some areas, PS is synonymous with the very idea of gaming) to be overcome (or for it to even register) by a lack of one feature. Again, I think BC is something that you can benefit from but I don't think it is something you hurt (in a noticeable way) from by not having it.
Either way, as I said, I think PS5 will have it anyway. So, yeah. I do wonder how the remaster situation will carry over to next gen though. I know devs/pubs like that extra piece of change but do they like it enough to skip on BC in order to keep doing it?
Not eventually doomed but it's going to hurt since they will be going back to square one while other tech companies will have 6-8 years of supporting what users purchased in the past. Just wouldn't be good for user confidence.
I agree that the Playstation brand isn't going to go anywhere if they decide to not have it but I do think that it will hurt them. A successor tech product not having digital compatibility wouldn't be a good look in 2020+.
It's interesting to think about especially if devs will be able to just add more features on to PS4 games with the PS5 if/when users move to that console. I wonder how the transition will work. Will there be a need to have separate game cases for the PS4 and the PS5? Will future game cases just have the Playstation logo with "compatible on PS4, PS4 Pro, and PS5"?
Slangblade
Member
Will all this bc talk no one has given reason why or why not it would hurt Sony. It's cool feature to have. We buy consoles for games not for old games and movies. Its way overblown on this forum.
Salty Hippo
Member
Following the grandma ad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KJLlcimfNs
Greenberg, the man with a plan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KJLlcimfNs
Greenberg, the man with a plan.
I did so in multiple posts. People are going to expect digital compatibility in 2020+. Especially when companies are pushing digital features and new consoles models every 3-4 years.
On top of this, I find the "not old games" message a bit funny considering how well remasters have done this gen. Due to iterative consoles, old games are getting visual upgrades (PS4 Pro). So tell me, what would be better? Getting a visual remaster for free alongside your new console thanks to that game being in your digital library or having to pay money to have a visual remaster due to that console not having backwards compatibility?
BC talk again??
Do people seriously think that had Xbone launched with BC it would have outsold the PS4? Wed still be in the same situation BC or not.
Only in this forum is BC a gamechanger.
Hindsight is 20/20, but in 2013 the games that people were hyped about were Destiny, Division, how the new NBA 2K looks, etc. and not Mass Effect 1 or 2 on BC. Yes, the new-gen games weren't as good but people bought the boxes to play those.
Having a dent? I mean if ypu consider a few thousands compared to millions a dent, sure.
Do people seriously think that had Xbone launched with BC it would have outsold the PS4? Wed still be in the same situation BC or not.
Only in this forum is BC a gamechanger.
Hindsight is 20/20, but in 2013 the games that people were hyped about were Destiny, Division, how the new NBA 2K looks, etc. and not Mass Effect 1 or 2 on BC. Yes, the new-gen games weren't as good but people bought the boxes to play those.
Having a dent? I mean if ypu consider a few thousands compared to millions a dent, sure.
Diddy Kong
Banned
It's pretty much impossible
blue_phazon
Member
I don't think they can worldwide, but I think they can lessen the gap by expanding in areas they'd be strong in.
The Xbox brand is pretty strong in Mexico, and it would be neat for them to expand fully in the rest of Latin America, where no company really has a foothold
The Xbox brand is pretty strong in Mexico, and it would be neat for them to expand fully in the rest of Latin America, where no company really has a foothold
Lights and Waves
Member
Anecdotal, but none of my friends ever had a PS3. Everyone had a 360. I felt so alone :'(
Most people don't seem to be getting it.
Sad Affleck
Member
Not with a traditional console, no. Xbox is not a strong brand in mainland Europe. Possibly through the unification of their Xbox and PC business, if that ever comes to pass. If Scorpio could run regular Windows it would make a killing.
secretanchitman
Member
It's been 3 generations and so far, the closest Microsoft came was in the 360 but then lost to the PS3 in the end. I would say probably not unless Sony completely fucks up with the PS5.
I also believe that Xbox in general doesn't sell as well as Sony does worldwide, so it has that going against them.
I also believe that Xbox in general doesn't sell as well as Sony does worldwide, so it has that going against them.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
This
And even that doesn't garentree anything.
Sony fucked up big time with PS3 and that was MS'S biggest chance and they blew it
Sony can actually say "not even on my worst day" because it's true
I'd never say never though
but for those stars to all align for them like it did then...its unlikely
DriftingSpirit
Member
Good convo, BG!
Yeah, it will be interesting to see what sort of transition we will have with a lot of things.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see what sort of transition we will have with a lot of things.
No, but don't you think it would have caused more gamers to stick with Xbox?
Not true at all. Some people who didn't have a current gen console before 2015 bought Xbox Ones in part due to BC.
Of course that was the case in 2013. As you said earlier, PS4/Xbox One didn't have backwards compatibility then. It's basically 2017 now. Both Sony and MS are pushing digital features and iterative consoles. Both are causing more people to expect compatibility in the future.
Again, tell me what more people would want? The ability to have a visually better version of a game they bought a few months back for free when they buy a new console, or paying for TWO versions of the same game when they buy a new console due to that console not having backwards compatibility? You mentioned NBA 2K. Wouldn't it be much better if a person that bought "NBA 2K20" when it launched was able to get the PS5 version for free due to compatibility instead of having to pay for another $60 version?
Using what people expected in 2012/2013 is faulty. There's been a rapid increase in digital features and downloading, and I'm sure many people didn't expect iterative consoles as well as many remasters back then. Going back to square one would be really silly in this current era of technology for entertainment.
Agreed. Also Sony is much more visible. Most of the time they have a big exclusive or third party game they have some kind of event where people can play it early.
For example near my work place there is a shopping mall where i could play UC4 or Bloodborne early a few days before release while MS sometimes does not even have ads for "smaller" (by which i mean not Halo) games.
Impossible? Hard to tell. Unlikely? Yh like it's been said their brand is terrible outside a few key countries. Unless Sony's brand recognition suddenly crashes one day then it's not likely to happen because of all the years of brand recognition Sony has built.
Delicious this is why come to Gaf 😂 😂 😂
Host Samurai
Member
Not until they start investing in some first party studios, otherwise i'd rather just buy a PC. I feel that Microsoft is totally out of touch with gamers, they've always just seemed so corporate in they way they communicate to me compared to Sony & Nintendo. I'll probably never purchase a Microsoft console again.
Equanimity
Member
Should or will? I don't see how that's possible worldwide, especially since Sony has a year head start with the PS4 Pro.
wapplew
Member
Vs PS4 pro, sure. Against switch? No chance.
Equanimity
Member
I would say there's no chance against either Sony or Nintendo.
IncognitoPanda
Member
They did due to a few reasons.
1. Up until the end, the 360 had a solid lead over PS3 in terms of hardware, thus selling more.
2. "The shooter box", Call of Duty would sell 2:1 on the 360 over PS3, plus a solid number of exclusived and XBLA.
Then there is also Live revenue.
Times sure have changed
Mass_Pincup
Banned
I think the Switch will outsell it.
If it has good momentum in Japan and with the power of their franchise in Europe they most definitely the Switch will be a bigger success then Scorpio.
ShadowFox08
Member
In third part sales, they won last Gen.
HarryKS
Member
At 600$? Good luck.
Microsoft's console line will live to see that happen.
No, I don't mean "M$ sux". I mean that, between Scorpio being a clear sign that Microsoft wants consoles to follow a similar upgrade cycle to that of the PC, and all Microsoft first-party games being available on Windows, they're either pulling out of the console market, or in the process of making the lines between PC and consoles so blurry that Microsoft consoles won't really be consoles anymore in the near future. By that point, the OP's question will be moot.
Microsoft cares about the console market only insofar as they can be a thorn in Sony's side. They don't care about leading the console market for the sake of it. They've realized that it's too much of a money sink and too much of an effort for them. Their focus remains the PC market,
They'll try and transform the console market to make it resemble the PC market, or they'll leave it.
No, I don't mean "M$ sux". I mean that, between Scorpio being a clear sign that Microsoft wants consoles to follow a similar upgrade cycle to that of the PC, and all Microsoft first-party games being available on Windows, they're either pulling out of the console market, or in the process of making the lines between PC and consoles so blurry that Microsoft consoles won't really be consoles anymore in the near future. By that point, the OP's question will be moot.
Microsoft cares about the console market only insofar as they can be a thorn in Sony's side. They don't care about leading the console market for the sake of it. They've realized that it's too much of a money sink and too much of an effort for them. Their focus remains the PC market,
They'll try and transform the console market to make it resemble the PC market, or they'll leave it.
pixellated_man
Member
Was that really necessary?
pixellated_man
Member
Xbox always the winner with Genio88, lol.
privitsan02
Member
This generation was Microsoft's to lose. I believe all industry people were expecting Microsoft to runaway with it as well. I mean hell, they had EA practically jumping ship from all the Sony support on PS3 with all of their exclusive content on Xbox One and pro-DRM support.
Doesn't mean Sony didn't work hard, but I feel like it was Microsoft's best chance of winning a generation. Not that they care anyway, I'm sure they were very happy at how they cut down Sony from the PS2 days to the PS3 around 2012, and right now restructuring itself, but at the end of the day no one likes losing.
Doesn't mean Sony didn't work hard, but I feel like it was Microsoft's best chance of winning a generation. Not that they care anyway, I'm sure they were very happy at how they cut down Sony from the PS2 days to the PS3 around 2012, and right now restructuring itself, but at the end of the day no one likes losing.
without 1st party games at least in the league of Sony (they won't ever touch nintendo), I don't think that's going to happen.
they have to diverse their portfolio. Everything they currently do is aimed at the the male 17-35 bro gamer, I feel like the narrative in the business meetings is "ok, so we have these 30 million male dubebros that bought our console to play halo and gears, now let's make them buy Ryse and Quantun Break and shit"
they tried last gen with Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey and Viva Piñata, I bought all those on the 360,
I don't understand why they'd give up.
they have to diverse their portfolio. Everything they currently do is aimed at the the male 17-35 bro gamer, I feel like the narrative in the business meetings is "ok, so we have these 30 million male dubebros that bought our console to play halo and gears, now let's make them buy Ryse and Quantun Break and shit"
they tried last gen with Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey and Viva Piñata, I bought all those on the 360,
I don't understand why they'd give up.
MilkyJoe
Member
What are this weekend Euro Millions numbers?
HarryKS
Member
36 48 64 96 00
Please. Visually better? The BC games on Xbone look like their native state. The framerate improvements are marginal at best. You speak as if the games that run on BC are superior. Theyre the same thing in every sense of the word.
When did Xbone introduce BC? E3 2015? Between that and now, ps4 went from 20+ million to 50+ million.
Using sales, we only need to look at GTAV and how it has performed. GTAV remaster on PS4 and Xbone continues to dominate NPD every single month. Where are all these droves of people who are buying 360 games to play on BC? Sorry, but yout anecdotes about people waiting for BC Xbone before buying are nowhere not even close to a dent to the amount people who bought the system without one. Can't believe this is even an argument valid enough for discussion. And i am pretty sure the pubs would rather put out a remaster and charge 40 bucks for them. BC isn't something that will shift anything. Its just there as an option but it is nowhere near the gamechanger people make it out to be.
People didnt even stick around for Halo 5 or Gears 4, what makes you think people would have stuck with Xbox to play Halo 4 or Gears 3? Yes, you have the odd one out in GTAV and RDR but people will look at the new games they haven't played rather than the ones they already did. New games sell new systems. I'll laugh so hard when a pillar feature for the Nextbox is their BC. It says so much when people come away from an E3 press conference and their main takeway was that they can play Halo 4 on their new 400-dollar system.
No one succeded or beat anyone because their box can play older games.