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Does listening to rap make you a misogynist?

NewGame

Banned
It makes you quite self absorbed and lacking in sympathy. It's always written by losers who have chips on their shoulder and have to prove it by telling you how many cars and women they own.

They also cuss like they're in highschool. A place which I believe they never left mentally.
 
It makes you quite self absorbed and lacking in sympathy. It's always written by losers who have chips on their shoulder and have to prove it by telling you how many cars and women they own.

They also cuss like they're in highschool. A place which I believe they never left mentally.

lol
 
It makes you quite self absorbed and lacking in sympathy. It's always written by losers who have chips on their shoulder and have to prove it by telling you how many cars and women they own.

They also cuss like they're in highschool. A place which I believe they never left mentally.
nice comment...Have to agree here, and I'm a hip hop fan. Although I'm not sure I would use lacking in sympathy. Well I shouldn't say I'm a fan, I'm not fanatic about anything really besides fitness maybe, but I do enjoy rap. But there's a whole lot of bad with the mainstream stuff.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
That study is really odd. Hip hop supposedly has the lowest amount of drug references yet these are also from the same study.

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I can only assume country somehow makes up the difference with references to beer and cigarettes? Because yeah I don't get it either.

On topic: Of course it doesn't, and I don't even like rap or most hip-hop.

Whether or not you are culpable in some moral sense for financially supporting misogynistic rappers or the like, is a thornier question. I think in an absolute black-and-white moral evaluation you are, just like me buying an Orson Scott Card book is supporting Card's batshit evaluation of gay people, even if I think he's a crazy hateful guy in that regard. Whether you're fine with that or not is a personal choice and I don't think there's a right answer (is buying a CD the same as buying all their merch and music? Is a $1 download the same as spending thousands?)

I will say that once people are dead and long gone I don't think it's a relevant question anymore. You can love Lovecraft even if he was a particularly racist guy, because it's not like he's gonna' come back outta' his grave because people like his stuff while finding his views repulsive. Wagner wrote damn good music, and his anti-Semitism can't hurt you through it. etc.
 

see5harp

Member
They have the most obscure and old ass references too. Like Clouddead and Deep Puddle Dynamics...I'm not even sure most people on this board are old enough to remember Anticon. They say that they are using data from some secondary source plus they don't even indicate whether they are looking at averages based on the total number of data within each genre or simply just counting.
 
I've made my point but i want to note this specific thing. Those are completely inapplicable examples. Many have made similar observations and they have vastly been as wrong too. GTA has violence, but it's not a violent object. The game does not harm its players or other players through your actions. The player acts violently in the game but the game itself is a violent world where violence exists and defines the experience of the lived world it represents. But misogyny affects real people.

A game that is misogynist is harming actual people. Misogynist games aren't bad because they represent a misogynistic world wherein misogyny is an appropriate tool for interacting with its characters (in fact this is what many say to consider GTA games satirical of violence instead of something that promotes it, in short you can say that GTA is about violence more than it has violence, which can be scarcely said about misogynistic products). Moreover our experience of violence in the real world is completely different from what violence is like in GTA, the violence in the game is not a simulation of its real world counterpart and frankly i would imagine any game would have trouble actually simulating what real world violence feels and is like to real world humans.

But misogyny in games is an appropriate reflection of what real world misogyny is like, and often they are systematically misogynistic in such a way that they are reliable predictors of how misogyny is practised in real life, between real men and women. Consider for example that any videogame (or anything really) that wants to have a lot of violence has to create a world that's very different from ours, because our real world doesn't have a lot of violence, but a game that wants to create a very misogynistic world can pretty much uplift how things are irl.

And more still, sexual objectification as is often what's talked about when discussing misogyny, by its mere presence and consumption by men and women alike has real negative effects on them, their perception of themselves and of others, an analogous of which i don't think exists for violent media.

If the violencw in movies or games like GTA is not harmful bwcause its obviously embracing fake or cartoonish behaviors then I have a hard time believing people are playing Rick Ross or Migos and actually embracing in true honesty the shit they are selling. Yes, driving ferraris and having mountains of coke and women is totally the image I get when and relate to when I play Culture

hint, its not. The most misogynistic and material rap is also the most obvious in its power fantasy.
 

sa201674

Banned
There' no denying that rap has a lot of sexual objectification, misogyny and homophobia but, i hear it's getting better in that regard.
 

see5harp

Member
I honestly don't feel as though it helps to talk about any genre as a whole. Cite specific examples or it just sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. It goes both ways. If you keep saying this "but rock and country does it to" bullshit then cite an example.
 

Alienfan

Member
I can only assume country somehow makes up the difference with references to beer and cigarettes? Because yeah I don't get it either.

On topic: Of course it doesn't, and I don't even like rap or most hip-hop.

Whether or not you are culpable in some moral sense for financially supporting misogynistic rappers or the like, is a thornier question. I think in an absolute black-and-white moral evaluation you are, just like me buying an Orson Scott Card book is supporting Card's batshit evaluation of gay people, even if I think he's a crazy hateful guy in that regard. Whether you're fine with that or not is a personal choice and I don't think there's a right answer (is buying a CD the same as buying all their merch and music? Is a $1 download the same as spending thousands?)

I will say that once people are dead and long gone I don't think it's a relevant question anymore. You can love Lovecraft even if he was a particularly racist guy, because it's not like he's gonna' come back outta' his grave because people like his stuff while finding his views repulsive. Wagner wrote damn good music, and his anti-Semitism can't hurt you through it. etc.

I think there's a difference between enjoying and supporting an artist who's a bigot (like LoveCraft), and enjoying work that outright contains sexisim racism or homophobia.
 
It could be problematic, but most of modern music is about the male ego and stuff. Music like Beyonce that is pro-feminism is the exception. Rap used to have Missy Elliot for the ladies, but she didn't sell well.

Does voting for Trump make you a racist? Maybe not, but you sure aren't helping the cause.

Most rap isn't good for society tbh. That's why whenever I feel like I need to hear some wholesome flows and beats, I put on some Logic or Eminem. Chance The Rapper is a good choice as well. Beyond that maybe some Will Smith, cause these parents just don't understand, forreal.

Interesting example. Those things don't really go together.
 

ethanny2

Member
I honestly don't feel as though it helps to talk about any genre as a whole. Cite specific examples or it just sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. It goes both ways. If you keep saying this "but rock and country does it to" bullshit then cite an example.

Well I don't have much other than anecdotal evidence that sexist rap lyrics affect the mindset of people who listen to it. (Guys who call their girlfriend my b, my hoe etcc)

But if a rapper has these type of lyrics and has a proven track record of domestic violence against women then are we enforcing these sexist tendencies? Case in point there was a fetty wap concert near me recently, it was cheap and I was bored so I went. But at the event site there was a group of students protesting fetty wap because there is a video of him threatening his wife with a knife. I only found that out after the concert but I was suprised that he would do something like that, and that I supported it by attending his concert. What about that example?
 
I don't think it makes you misogynistic, but depending on the rapper(s) you support, you could argue that you're supporting a misogynistic rapper or misogynistic ideas. There are some older hip hop albums I love listening to, but also bristle at whenever the emcee uses the word "faggot" on a track or two as well. I wouldn't play it in my car with someone who wasn't familiar with the artist, and honestly I couldn't blame someone being offended by the track and considering the rapper a homophobe even if most of their other songs don't utilize the word or even deal with that content.

I think it's an interesting question to ask, nevertheless. To what degree do we associate what someone listens to with who they are and the ideas they support? Hip hop is fairly mainstream and casual misogyny is something that's been historically normalized. But I'm curious about if the reaction would be different on a more extreme end?

If listening to misogynistic lyrics don't make you a misogynist, would you believe someone who listened to an artist with racist content if they told you they didn't co-sign the lyrics, but just liked the rhythms or elements of the songs that didn't have the racist content?
 
That study is really odd. Hip hop supposedly has the lowest amount of drug references yet these are also from the same study.

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We should make a distinction between talking about drugs and drug paraphernalia versus promotion of drug use. Jay-Z talks constantly about the business side of drug trafficking but he never promoted using those drugs. Most drug talk in rap music used to be about the transaction side of drugs, but this new generation of mumble rappers promote personal drug abuse.
 

xevis

Banned
So all rap is mysogynistic? Whatta premise! Or is it that rap is usually associated with mysogyny? Either way, I'm gonna need to see receipts.
 

Daingurse

Member
Really don't think that's the case. Otherwise I'd be a sexist, homophobic, murdering bastard, because I love Eminem music lol.
 
We should make a distinction between talking about drugs and drug paraphernalia versus promotion of drug use. Jay-Z talks constantly about the business side of drug trafficking but he never promoted using those drugs. Most drug talk in rap music used to be about the transaction side of drugs, but this new generation of mumble rappers promote personal drug abuse.

Jay definitely talked about smoking weed, at least on his best album (Reasonable Doubt)

Saying Wu-Tang make meth references is some hilarious shit though. "I got a Meth in my crew Johnny Blaze em to death"
 

shoelacer

Banned
Jay definitely talked about smoking weed, at least on his best album (Reasonable Doubt)

Saying Wu-Tang make meth references is some hilarious shit though. "I got a Meth in my crew Johnny Blaze em to death"

It's not meth but the first slate of Wu Tang records would have been wayyyyy different if PCP didn't exist
 

Moonkid

Member
We've had that discussion turn out ok before.

There's a reason why games like Nier and Spec Ops: The Line are popular on gaf
Man I thought I forgot to reply to someone when I saw this thread bumped, sorry :p

Sure, and I do remember one solid thread on the topic specifically. It's pretty easy to drop a hot take though and conversely pick easy targets especially with an awful title like that. I'm not saying I'd be able to navigate the topic eloquently but it's a bit disappointing nonetheless to see pages of "yeah and playing GTA makes me a serial killer lol!"
 

Pusherman

Member
Yes, listening to rap makes you a misogynist. Thing is, not listening to rap makes you a racist so really there's no way to win here.
 
Yes, if you listen to popular songs but it's ok in today's society so I wouldn't worry about it. You'll be long gone before people make it politically incorrect.
 

EBreda

Member
What about a white guy singing along to a rap like "Can't be touched" by Roy Jones.

"When will you niggers learn" or something like that.

I ask that because it's a song that frequently shows up on my gym and I get kinda "ehhh no" when I see white guys like me singing along (I don't, just to be clear, cause I don't feel comfortable doing it, despite it being a pretty good workout tune).

So, any input ?
 

UCBooties

Member
I don't think it makes you a misogynist, I would not be surprised if it reinforces misogyny in the black and hip-hop communities.

The misogyny, glorification of drugs and violence and superficial excess are all reason I don't listen to rap. It's incredibly unappealing to me.

(Yes, I understand that not all rap is misogynistic or glorifying of violence, but the prevalence of those themes makes me uninterested in seeking out the other stuff)
 

valkyre

Member
9 out 10 times I hear rap music my ears bleed... and dont take that comment in any weird manner, I will tell you the exact same thing for death/thrash metal music as well...

just not my cup of tea... at all.

as to whether it makes you a misogynist? No, unless you are a misogynist.
 

Jag

Member
My 16 (almost 17) year old son is massively into rap. I tried to steer him away from it, but all his friends are into it too. No offense to rap fans here, but I can't stand what he listens too. The few times i've heard it, it has been racist and massively misogynistic. He said he likes the stories rap tells because much of it is a reflection of the rap artist's background. He was just telling me some stories about Kendrick Lamar's new album or something.

I actually had a conversation with my wife recently that I didn't like the way he spoke about women. On TV shows he always hates the female characters. He describes them as annoying, whiny and emotional. He says the same things about girls in his school I try to use those times to correct his perception and point out positive traits too.

I hold my wife in the highest regard and respect the hell out of her and all woman. She's a strong, smart person who's a lawyer by day and amazing mom at night. So I don't know where he picked this nasty side from. He's shy and has gone on one date in his life, so doesn't have really any experience with women. Which could be an issue too.

I'm not saying rap is the problem, but I can't imagine it helps.
 
What about a white guy singing along to a rap like "Can't be touched" by Roy Jones.

"When will you niggers learn" or something like that.

I ask that because it's a song that frequently shows up on my gym and I get kinda "ehhh no" when I see white guys like me singing along (I don't, just to be clear, cause I don't feel comfortable doing it, despite it being a pretty good workout tune).

So, any input ?
listen to what you want, just be mindful of what's offensive to people.

In general as a hip hop head, I think it ultimately puts more bad into the world than good. I understand the need to speak out in a way against police brutality, racisms, and overall mistreatment. So I get angry albums like NWA. But yeah, it's but so many stories that need to be told and spoke about in such ugly manners.

I still listen to it, but mostly older rap, Drake,because he's not super vulgar all the time and has a wide range of music, and Jcole who recently started speaking on social issues more.
 

LordKasual

Banned
It makes you quite self absorbed and lacking in sympathy. It's always written by losers who have chips on their shoulder and have to prove it by telling you how many cars and women they own.

They also cuss like they're in highschool. A place which I believe they never left mentally.

lol
 
Does watching dark and violent movies make you an emotionless killer? No. You can separate the fact that you enjoy seeing fictional violence from the idea that you live your personal life disapproving of murder and mayhem.

Your behavior and self-awareness is what separates a misogynist from just a person that sees women as people. I'm aware of the problematic nature of some songs I listen too, movies I watch and games I play. Being aware of the problematic elements, not excusing them, and not displaying that same behavior in the world is vitally important. I can still engage and consume that art while still having my own personal absolute limits (for example no longer supporting the Cosby estate with any witches or purchases of media he appears in/created/still gets money from). And the even more important is the searching out for and supporting of artist and creatives who make an effort to make progressive contributions to the world at large and through their creations.
 
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