boiled goose
good with gravy
Mael said:
using R means not taking your thumb off the jump button. so the advantage of waggle + the precision of a button
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Donkey Kong Country Returns |OT| Retro Studios Has Done It Again!
- Thread starter Tricky I Shadow
- Start date
using R means not taking your thumb off the jump button. so the advantage of waggle + the precision of a button
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Amir0x said:
Eh, I haven't played through the entire game -- got mad at the memorization required at the level three or four boss -- but I'm fairly sure that one of the first bonus levels could easily be described as trial and error. You gotta drop down from a ledge onto a small platform and you can't see anything below. It's pretty much the definition of trial-and-error, no? Actually, I'm quite sure that there's a lot of trial-and-error type levels in Super Meat Boy.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
TheExodu5 said:
Ah, my bad then. I'm fairly sure that there are other areas that are next to impossible to finish without having played and died a couple of times though -- learning the patterns and how to jump and etc.
The boss I'm talking about is the lava one. EDIT: The one slamming its head and fists on the ground all the time.
SMB definitely required a lot of memorization. There were some gimmicks in levels that were just plain not fun too, and lastly, there was one boss fight in particular that killed me that had nothing to do with platforming skills (he slammed his head down on the ground where I was standing when I had no way to know he was going to do that and I had no way to react in time).
It's a great game, but it's far from perfect. And to be fair to DKCR, you don't have to stop to blow on anything in the game... ever, I don't think. Any time I did that, it was usually for a puzzle piece, and those only unlock artwork. Same goes for the extra banana rooms. They weren't necessary for 100% game completion. All the KONG pieces required platforming, sometimes a roll, which needed the shake first. Sorry, Ami, but that reads like someone who very clearly didn't play the game very long, especially since your hate does not include rocket levels or some of the actual design problems related to the actual platforming (you're dead-on about the mine carts though).
It's a great game, but it's far from perfect. And to be fair to DKCR, you don't have to stop to blow on anything in the game... ever, I don't think. Any time I did that, it was usually for a puzzle piece, and those only unlock artwork. Same goes for the extra banana rooms. They weren't necessary for 100% game completion. All the KONG pieces required platforming, sometimes a roll, which needed the shake first. Sorry, Ami, but that reads like someone who very clearly didn't play the game very long, especially since your hate does not include rocket levels or some of the actual design problems related to the actual platforming (you're dead-on about the mine carts though).
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
AniHawk said:
From memory, there's only once, at the very end of one of the levels where you blow the leaves off the ground.
Windom Earle
Member
ccbfan said:
I really need to buy a classic controller...
those caged flying bird tikis with platforms attached to them :lol
it's like retro read my complaint about the nonsensical floating spikey wheels in the original dkc
i really dig how they tried to make sense of everything in such a fundamentally silly universe. and that's just one example. they created such a coherent and organic world where seemingly every gimmick, obstacle and set piece has a reason to exist.
it's like retro read my complaint about the nonsensical floating spikey wheels in the original dkc
i really dig how they tried to make sense of everything in such a fundamentally silly universe. and that's just one example. they created such a coherent and organic world where seemingly every gimmick, obstacle and set piece has a reason to exist.EatChildren said:
I'd go even further, the portal levels in Hell for example, you had no idea where they connected until going through them, and some required upward momentum, some required downward, sideways, etc.
The only way you'd beat those levels your first try is by pure luck by guessing.
jarosh said:
that said, world 4 was by far the worst one so far and sadly drags down the game as a whole. those mine cart levels... ugh. why, retro, why!
World 4 was one of my favorites. Love the mine cart levels.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
I also adore world 4. I'd happily play a whole game of DKCR's mine cart levels. They're definitely tough, but not to the point where I wasn't having fun.
Super Meat Boy does require memorisation, but because the levels are so short, respawning is instantaneous, and the whole game is based around the premise that you will die a lot, it's not really a problem. The only point where I feel it went overboard was the boss of Chapter 4, which required you to play a little further each attempt, memorising more of his attacks each time. Unsurprisingly, that was the low point of the whole game for me.
Lathentar said:
Super Meat Boy does require memorisation, but because the levels are so short, respawning is instantaneous, and the whole game is based around the premise that you will die a lot, it's not really a problem. The only point where I feel it went overboard was the boss of Chapter 4, which required you to play a little further each attempt, memorising more of his attacks each time. Unsurprisingly, that was the low point of the whole game for me.
Coolio McAwesome
Member
Super Meat Boy is similar to DKCR in so far as there are often very specific ways that you have to complete certain stages. There is often a "correct" way to approach certain obstacles, and anything else will result in death. A game like NSMBW gives players a lot more freedom. Triple jumps, backflips, desperation wallkicks, and multiple power-ups ensure that the player has a lot more options with respect to how they approach the game. In NSMBW, the player is constantly reacting to what's happening in the game as it is happening. In Super Meat Boy and DKCR, trial and error is a much bigger piece of the equation. Super Meat Boy is a very rigid game; as is DKCR. Personally, I prefer the NSMBW approach, but this doesn't mean that DKCR or Super Meat Boy are poorly designed games.
Got 2 more Shiny Gold Medals done, I'm pretty much done now!
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Here's a link to my channel for those that are interested
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Outtrigger888
Member
Anybody else using sqawks to find the puzzle pieces? I used him once (felt like cheating) and decided to try and find the pieces myself
I only use him after running through once if I didn't find them all the first time because I didn't even see them. He helps me, I don't see it as cheating since A) he's part of the game and B) you gotta use the coins for something other than lives. You get so many of them.Outtrigger888 said:
jarosh said:those caged flying bird tikis with platforms attached to them :lol
it's like retro read my complaint about the nonsensical floating spikey wheels in the original dkc
You think that's a legit complaint? How about all of nonsensical shit that's suspended in mid air for no reason in Mario games?
I finish it. Oh the timing when the last boss want to clap you.
I was so pumped by 8-2 like yes that's the things I want to confront, 4 lives used for this level. And the propulsing stones in the last level get me, when the rythm is slow like this, that's hard, more if you've done some time trials.
I do a little
I was so pumped by 8-2 like yes that's the things I want to confront, 4 lives used for this level. And the propulsing stones in the last level get me, when the rythm is slow like this, that's hard, more if you've done some time trials.
I do a little
9-1 and I was thinking of a entiere world, this isn't, right?
godisturbed
Member
Sainsburys just sent me a 10 pound voucher code after cancelling my xbox 360 arcade order (it went live on their site for 65 quid when they meant to delete it) so Im getting this for 24.99! Bargain.
DKCR Returns only required memorization for two or three boss fights and the mine cart and rocket barrel levels as far as I can think of (currently 180% done with the game). SMB (almost completed that and also beat the game) does have some a handful of levels I can think of that require some memorization too. DKCR has more than SMB, and it's a valid complaint for both games, but I'd hardly call it a game breaker. I think the levels are a lot of fun, so dying and remembering where/how I died didn't really bother me. SMB was the same way for me.
All in all, SMB had incredible platforming. I prefer DKCR more (which also has fantastic platforming) though, simply because of the production values, set pieces, music, the great way that levels unfold, etc. Both are great games, and I'm kind of surprised that people would hate on either, but to each their own.
Biggest complaint is that the level design is GREAT for speed running, but the camera doesn't pan enough for it since the roll jump is so quick. Therefore, if you want to speed run a level then you've gotta memorize it. That takes the fun of speed running out of the levels, which is sorely disappointing, as I LOVE speed running and SMB really hit a perfect sweet spot for me there. Speed running the original DKC games and classic mario games are much more fair since you can't accidentally go flying into unseen enemies/pits at high speed so easily.
All in all, SMB had incredible platforming. I prefer DKCR more (which also has fantastic platforming) though, simply because of the production values, set pieces, music, the great way that levels unfold, etc. Both are great games, and I'm kind of surprised that people would hate on either, but to each their own.
Biggest complaint is that the level design is GREAT for speed running, but the camera doesn't pan enough for it since the roll jump is so quick. Therefore, if you want to speed run a level then you've gotta memorize it. That takes the fun of speed running out of the levels, which is sorely disappointing, as I LOVE speed running and SMB really hit a perfect sweet spot for me there. Speed running the original DKC games and classic mario games are much more fair since you can't accidentally go flying into unseen enemies/pits at high speed so easily.
GurgleBot20
Member
Gilby said:
I really wish I knew that before I beat it
Gilby said:
And the worst level in the game IMO. :lol Reminds me of a bad Rayman level.
The whole last level really felt like it was tacked on towards the end of the development, along with the mirror-mode challenge. I love the challenge, but I was really looking forward to some kind of Lost World equivalent
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Seeing people still complain about the controls is just really..... baffling. I mean wow, you shake to roll. Is it responsive? Yes. Does it work 100% of the time? Yes. What's the problem?
Honestly anybody complaining about the motion control in the Super Mario Galaxys, NSMBWii, and DKCR isn't giving the controls the proper chance or is just trolling imo. It's what the system is all about, It's going to be in Nintendo games, and they are simple motions that absolutely work in these games. Get over it! So if you somehow don't like it (surely not because it isn't responsive but based upon preference) just be happy DKCR didn't have SMG birl-flying control for the Rocket barrel levels. :lol
And speaking of which, if you die 60 times on a certain-type level that most people aren't having that 60 lives-type trouble with, maybe you should stop complaining about how those levels suck and just realize you probably suck at those-type levels. But hey, nothing wrong with sucking. It took me probably thousands of lives to beat some of the bosses of Viewtiful Joe on Kiddie mode. Was it the game's problem? No. The bosses were pretty darn fair, just tough as hell. The problem was I suck at beat-em ups. Always will. But I realized that and still had a blast.
Overwhelming Trail-and-Error ? You people serious? Plenty of us made it through most of those rocket and mine levels on our first try! Retro gives you plenty of time to react to what is thrown at you. Not saying there isn't ANY trial-and-error involved in DKCR..... but there is no more then your average Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario Bros., or even the recent NSMBWii.
Honestly anybody complaining about the motion control in the Super Mario Galaxys, NSMBWii, and DKCR isn't giving the controls the proper chance or is just trolling imo. It's what the system is all about, It's going to be in Nintendo games, and they are simple motions that absolutely work in these games. Get over it! So if you somehow don't like it (surely not because it isn't responsive but based upon preference) just be happy DKCR didn't have SMG birl-flying control for the Rocket barrel levels. :lol
And speaking of which, if you die 60 times on a certain-type level that most people aren't having that 60 lives-type trouble with, maybe you should stop complaining about how those levels suck and just realize you probably suck at those-type levels. But hey, nothing wrong with sucking. It took me probably thousands of lives to beat some of the bosses of Viewtiful Joe on Kiddie mode. Was it the game's problem? No. The bosses were pretty darn fair, just tough as hell. The problem was I suck at beat-em ups. Always will. But I realized that and still had a blast.
Overwhelming Trail-and-Error ? You people serious? Plenty of us made it through most of those rocket and mine levels on our first try! Retro gives you plenty of time to react to what is thrown at you. Not saying there isn't ANY trial-and-error involved in DKCR..... but there is no more then your average Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario Bros., or even the recent NSMBWii.
Kyleripman
Member
ccbfan said:
I'm on world 7 and my wrist has had enough, though I adore the game. Gonna look into adding CC support; but does adding the homebrew channel make it so you can't update the wii's firmware or anything like that?
nincompoop
Banned
I'm not sure anyone would be happy about that, since the rocket controls are horrible and are by far the worst thing about the game. Even a motion control hater should be able to recognize that they would've been a million times better if they had used tilt.Skiesofwonder said:
jarosh said:
Same, but the rocket barrel levels are kind of inconsistent. World 7 rocket level was my favorite by far. It's really fair and really fun, and you can tell what you need to do in advance, due to the way that the gears move and such. The first half of world 8's is just stupid (fireballs are WAY too hard to dodge), while the second half is absolutely awesome and it implements a really cool idea that, once again, is totally fair in that you can see well ahead of time what you must do, even if it's a little tricky. While I enjoy the rocket barrel levels, the design is really inconsistent as far as "fairness" goes. I still enjoyed each one, though, except for the bat one. I like it now, but it took me like 20 lives to figure out the rhythm for the final bat.
jamesinclair
Banned
Kyleripman said:
Im also interested in this.
I had to super guide the level with the wall of ants because I got sick of all the shaking to roll.
Kyleripman
Member
Also, does the game interpret the CC as wiimote only or wiimote + nunchuk? In other words, will I lose my run button?
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
mm, the second half of the World 8 rocket level is ace. I did it in one go, but damn it if I didn't feel like a savant.Sklorenz said:
There's only really one fireball that is hard to dodge, and its mainly an issue if you're going for Kong. In most other cases the paths are telegraphed (eg there is a wall that is clearly different from the rest that will break away in a second or two).
Kyleripman
Member
I decided to go ahead and just and add the homebrew channel so I could use the CC. It makes a hell of a difference for someone like me, who preferred the sideways control. I wouldn't go back.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
I must say that I thought rocket levels were average. I would have liked them more if there had been more vertical ones, like 7-R.