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[SteveWinwood]

But now he can smoke screen with no penalty... right?

I mean there is a mana cost.

There is no point for you to cast smoke screen if you're not eventually going to right click them making you visible again, unless you're doing some really stupid support team fight thing. Dagon 5 is going to be the funniest thing on him if anyone really wants to waste that much money on it.

It really won't change much on him.

 

[GregLombardi]

On 2nd glance, this may be the most game changing patch in Dota 2 history, IMO.

 

[Anteo]

You can still see the cloud around him, if I understand it correctly, so you know where he is.

What I dont understand: Dust is considered true sight? True sight was the name of the aura skill that towers/sentries/gem/necromicon lvl 3 had. Dust was a different skill with different name and different coding.

Also, about the random gold. It was way too imbalanced in some games with lucky random picks in All Pick. 3 good random picks = a lot of extra gold for the other team. It made it hard to chose to random to match the gold or counter pick. And if the players were any good, you would have a hard time catching up to them.

 

[Pureauthor]

What I dont understand: Dust is considered true sight? True sight was the name of the aura skill that towers/sentries/gem/necromicon lvl 3 had. Dust was a different skill with different name and different coding.

Yes, it's considered True Sight. And no one buys Dust against Slark anyway because of Dark Pact.

 

[SteveWinwood]

On 2nd glance, this may be the most game changing patch in Dota 2 history, IMO.

That would be 6.55. None of us would be here without it.

http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.55

 

[Atrophis]

I am a bit dissapointed that Dota 2, like TF2, now seems to be in "support" mode. It's too bad they didn't finish porting everyone over before the team seemingly slimmed down.

Well SOMEONES gotta work on HL3.

 

[Mohasus]

Yeah I don't really get it. Is there a counter to his ult now? It sounds like he basically gets godmode for 4 seconds now.

AoE spells and ghost scepter.
Also, ults like chronosphere and guardian angel.

Anyway, as someone who hates trilane, this patch is a blessing.

 

[elyetis]

I think people place too much importance on Volvo adding new heroes. Most people (including me) can't even play all of the existing heroes competently anyway.

That include me too, but not being able to play a hero sometime come from the lack of interest in the said heros.

Now some people mostly play a given hero, ( or at least a small number of them ), knowing that one of the hero still not in dota 2 might very well become one of them ( if not your favorite ) from reading his abilities ( techies techies techies ! ), make the wait really hard to bear. Far more than what it will be when we are gonna wait for completly new hero once the parity is there ( end of 2015 ? ).

There is only 3 things which make patch really interesting to me, those new version patch which change the meta ( like this one ), new hero, and new game modes ( captain draft is the only thing which actually made me feel the fact we actually had a 'decent' patch in the last 4 month ).

 

[Ferrio]

1v5
"We come in peace"
*Rampage*

Was never a fan of building him suicide. Ya always good for easy kills beginning of the game... but always liked leveling mines or his stuns first.

 

[Pureauthor]

I'm pretty sure the Smoke of Deceit patch would be the big meta breaker.

And thank goodness because that came after the era of Medusa picks being standard.

 

[Einbroch]

Someone should explain, and maybe put it in the first post, about what this means for people on the fence. Otherwise it's just a big confusing wall of text.

 

[GregLombardi]

That would be 6.55. None of us would be here without it.

http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.55

I guess new heroes / items trumps most of this. Still, geeeezzzz...Pudge alone changes the entire hero landscape. Having blink dagger makes him silly, even with the nerf to blinking to hard to escape locations.

 

[Nirolak]

Someone should explain, and maybe put it in the first post, about what this means for people on the fence. Otherwise it's just a big confusing wall of text.

If you're on the fence on trying the game, this won't change anything, since it's just a giant balance patch.

What you're looking for would be more in line with holiday events or the horde mode they seem to be working on.

 

[Niwa]

I just started playing DOTA2 yesterday, will this update crush every knowledge I've gained the last 24h!?

 

[SteveWinwood]

Someone should explain, and maybe put it in the first post, about what this means for people on the fence. Otherwise it's just a big confusing wall of text.

Frankly it doesn't mean anything for new people other than showing the game has a lot of support and changes over time. Some cooldown being increased by 6 seconds doesn't matter to someone who doesn't even know what dark seer is.

I just started playing DOTA2 yesterday, will this update crush every knowledge I've gained the last 24h!?

Not really. You might have to relearn parts of stacking and pulling if you already learned that.

 

[Dranakin]

Night Stalker is hopefully more useful now. Glad Shadow Blade's cooldown increased.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah 6.55 DOTA 2 change was the big change and made the game what it is now. Before 6.55 the game was just a fun but broke type of game you played for kicks. After 6.55 it became a highly competitive team based game.

6.79 is still a massive game changing patch.

I just started playing DOTA2 yesterday, will this update crush every knowledge I've gained the last 24h!?

No.

 

[Anteo]

Was never a fan of building him suicide. Ya always good for easy kills beginning of the game... but always liked leveling mines or his stuns first.

Me neither, but I would lie if I told you I never use it. What I love the most is to use him as a hand grenade with Tiny.

I just started playing DOTA2 yesterday, will this update crush every knowledge I've gained the last 24h!?

Not really, but some intermediate and advanced stuff has changed, like:

-The pull timing has changed.
-Some camps have been swaped around.
-The exp range is bigger, some players may play around this change but not novice players that stay close to the creeps.


Some skills have been rebalanced, check out the changes for the heroes you are learning to play

 

[Einbroch]

Frankly it doesn't mean anything for new people other than showing the game has a lot of support and changes over time. Some cooldown being increased by 6 seconds doesn't matter to someone who doesn't even know what dark seer is.

The jungle changes seem to make jungling easier. If that's the case, that's awesome, as I suck at jungling in Dota and feel like I'm taking too much damage.

Also, 25% more global gold leads to a slightly (ever so slightly) less snowbally game, right?

 

[Htown]

holy shit at that treant nerf

Treant Protector
- Leech Seed damage per pulse reduced from 30/45/60/75 to 24/36/48/60
- Leech Seed number of pulses increased from 4 to 6 (duration from 3 to 4.5)
- Living Armor cooldown rebalanced from 15 to 32/26/20/14
- Living Armor manacost increased from 25 to 50
- Nature's Guise cast point improved from 0.5 to 0.3

One weak damage spell. Nerf it.
Living armor has way less early game presence with double mana cost and triple/double cooldown at early levels

 

[marrec]

I just started playing DOTA2 yesterday, will this update crush every knowledge I've gained the last 24h!?

You didn't know enough yet for this patch to change much. Lucky for you.

 

[SteveWinwood]

holy shit at that treant nerf

It's funny because he was already never picked after the last set of nerfs.

The jungle changes seem to make jungling easier. If that's the case, that's awesome, as I suck at jungling in Dota and feel like I'm taking too much damage.

Also, 25% more global gold leads to a slightly (ever so slightly) less snowbally game, right?

It looks to me to make strong junglers stronger and weak ones worthless. We'll see how it shakes out though.

Time will tell on that as well. Could make it more snowbally, but I have no clue.

 

[Htown]

It's funny because he was already never picked after the last set of nerfs.

like what the fuck is even the point of picking treant now

jeeesus

 

[Interfectum]

Crazy changes, love this shit!

 

[Sibylus]

I think this is easily the most radical of balance shifts yet seen since Dota went the Valve route... exciting!

 

[Artanisix]

Treant was buffed just fyi

 

[Htown]

Treant was buffed just fyi

how do you figure? because the leech seed slow lasts longer?

 

[elyetis]

Treant was buffed just fyi

His early game got nerfed to death. His previous nerf was really more than enough.

 

[Anteo]

how do you figure? because the leech seed slow lasts longer?

Increased duration on leech seed (more time slowing down), damage per tick decreased but since the duration is longer, you get higher damage overall in the end.

Castpoint for nature guise from 0.5 to 0.3, small change but is a buff still.

The only thing that was nerfed was his armor. it was questionable if it was balanced before (I think it was balanced). Now it wont be as annoying as it was.

Spoiler

Is still a nerf imo

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Treant was buffed just fyi

A microscopic cast animation buff on a spell he doesn't really use often and doesn't have the mana to effectively use until 20 minutes into the game.

A minor buff to a crappy damage spell, but combined with a nerf to it so it's a wash. Again, mana issues allow only once or twice to be used the entire laning phase anyway and mostly for the slow, not the damage.

And nuked to the ground Living Armor, Treant's signature move and the reason he's picked

Yea, he was buffed

Spoiler

No he wasn't, he was nuked to the ground, Morphling style

 

[Sibylus]

Living armor's fourth level is a buff, on top of the other things mentioned.

 

[elyetis]

Living armor's fourth level is a buff, on top of the other things mentioned.

Treant was mostly a very strong early for a kind of shity late, now it's a not that good early for a still not really good late.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Living armor's fourth level is a buff, on top of the other things mentioned.

Treant is an early game hero, he falls off very quickly. Getting all 4 levels of LA before it falls off in usefulness isn't going to happen.

A 1 second less cooldown is not anything at all. It might be a "buff" but it doesn't make Treant stronger and in fact basically destroys him. He had a couple of a good months and now he's worse off than he was last year at this time.

 

[Pinko Marx]

like what the fuck is even the point of picking treant now

jeeesus

Carry tree, duh. Armlet and mom. All you need.

 

[Sibylus]

Can't say I entirely agree with you fellows, in practice he's seemed to peak in the midgame with heroes that can really capitalize on the sort of the dives that Living Armor enables (such as Weaver, Timbersaw, NS). The changes certainly hurt reactive armors thrown out to everything early, but has far less impact on the the coordinated midgame dives that are the hero's real strength.

 

[Htown]

just waiting for the patch where living armor has a cast range instead of being global

 

[Dahbomb]

Spamming Living Armor with impunity in the first 5-10 minutes of the game was pants on head stupid.

 

[Anteo]

just waiting for the patch where living armor has a cast range instead of being global

6.70
Treant: Armor cast range changed from global to 99999999999. (This changes nothing)

 

[Htown]

Spamming Living Armor with impunity in the first 5-10 minutes of the game was pants on head stupid.

it's literally the only thing Treant had going for him

I guess if you never use Treant it won't bother you, but as someone who played him fairly frequently, my question still becomes, "what is his role now?"

 

[sephi22]

Please add this to the OP
Dead Game: Reactions to 6.79

Really good impressions from everyone

 

[XANDER CAGE]

That creep kill change for buyback seems pretty massive.

 

[Dahbomb]

it's literally the only thing Treant had going for him

I guess if you never use Treant it won't bother you, but as someone who played him fairly frequently, my question still becomes, "what is his role now?"

I have used Treant and he's a cheesy one trick pony hero. They should've nerfed Living Armor and buffed his other spells which they sort of did.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Hehehe, time to give this baby a spin... Loving these crazy-ass changes in theory, let's see how they pan out in-game.

First game is going to be Witch Doctor in Single Draft with Tranqs. Ah, who am I kidding - I'm going Tranqs with every hero for at least 10 games.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

The real question is: How do you counter the new "meta" heroes? I'm guessing Night Stalker, Lich, Broodmother, Riki, Axe, and Slark are going to get massive boosts in popularity. How do you counter these heroes?

I'd say it's pretty obvious for Riki: Sentry Wards. It used to be the same for Broodmother but now she can just fuck off and walk over a hill/trees when she gets attacked, so now it'll be way tougher.

 

[Htown]

I have used Treant and he's a cheesy one trick pony hero. They should've nerfed Living Armor and buffed his other spells which they sort of did.

Yes, but they nerfed living armor into the ground, and then slightly buffed his other spells. If you're going to de-emphasize living armor that radically, why not increase the magnitude of the slow, or the duration of the invis, or the range of the ult?

 

[Card Boy]

Still no surrender option.

 

[Anteo]

The real question is: How do you counter the new "meta" heroes? I'm guessing Night Stalker, Lich, Broodmother, Riki, Axe, and Slark are going to get massive boosts in popularity. How do you counter these heroes?

I'd say it's pretty obvious for Riki: Sentry Wards. It used to be the same for Broodmother but now she can just fuck off and walk over a hill/trees when she gets attacked, so now it'll be way tougher.

I dont see what has changed for riki, whenever he casts a spell he reveals his position to heroes even if he is still invis. So he is still easy to deal with

 

[sephi22]

The real question is: How do you counter the new "meta" heroes? I'm guessing Night Stalker, Lich, Broodmother, Riki, Axe, and Slark are going to get massive boosts in popularity. How do you counter these heroes?

Night Stalker = Pick Luna and hope for an easy lane
Lich = No idea
Riki = No idea
Axe = Just use whatever you used before.
Slark = His ultimate has a huge cooldown increase and reduced active time. He's a god for those 4 seconds but he should be much easier to kill when its on cooldown.

I'd say it's pretty obvious for Riki: Sentry Wards. It used to be the same for Broodmother but now she can just fuck off and walk over a hill/trees when she gets attacked, so now it'll be way tougher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJwtD2cVpZI

Still no surrender option.

Who needs it?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yes, but they nerfed living armor into the ground, and then slightly buffed his other spells. If you're going to de-emphasize living armor that radically, why not increase the magnitude of the slow, or the duration of the invis, or the range of the ult?

tweaking Treant's int growth would be a nice buff for his other spells.

He has major, major mana issues.

Alternatives:
- Give Guise a passive for Treant with a fade time when next to trees, but raise the mana cost for casting on allies.
- Change Guise's mana cost to the level 4 mana cost for all levels
- Lower Leech Seed's mana cost slightly

Still no surrender option.

If all 5 people leave, it's a surrender. The option exists, and always has, and probably always will.

 

[Sibylus]

The real question is: How do you counter the new "meta" heroes? I'm guessing Night Stalker, Lich, Broodmother, Riki, Axe, and Slark are going to get massive boosts in popularity. How do you counter these heroes?

I'd say it's pretty obvious for Riki: Sentry Wards. It used to be the same for Broodmother but now she can just fuck off and walk over a hill/trees when she gets attacked, so now it'll be way tougher.

Night Stalker: Place observer wards a bit closer to his ganking routes, so that his ult has a harder time blanking wards on outside paths
Lich: Spammable or high-damage nukes, he doesn't have a great deal of health. Silences in teamfights to delay his input.
Axe: High impact slows to make it a huge pain in the ass to get into position to lock people down and proc swings
Riki: Easier to counter now that sentry wards are earned faster with even just residual gold
Slark: AoE stuns of any variety, even 1 second stuns waste a quarter of his ultimate. Heroes like Earthshaker, Nyx, Sand King and Dark Seer are already popular.
Broodmother: Heroes that can cut a great number of trees quickly, such as Timbersaw and Beastmaster, and global tracking heroes can be of use too.