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[Crimsonclaw111]

I'm a little confused as I just got into PC gaming, but is down sampling better than AA? Like if I had to choose between 8x MSAA or whatever and 1440p+ rendering, would the 1440p image help eliminate more jaggies at a comparable AA level?

I want to try down sampling but I love a good framerate. Running a GTX 770 4GB if it helps.

 

[HTupolev]

I'm a little confused as I just got into PC gaming, but is down sampling better than AA? Like if I had to choose between 8x MSAA or whatever and 1440p+ rendering, would the 1440p image help eliminate more jaggies at a comparable AA level?

I want to try down sampling but I love a good framerate. Running a GTX 770 4GB if it helps.

Supersampling is a form of antialiasing. In fact, you could argue that it's the simplest and most natural form of antialiasing. Aliases are inaccuracies that result from details not being sampled at sufficient frequency; you want to mitigate them, you can do so by sampling at higher frequencies. In the case of computer-generated images (the previous stuff I said could be applied to tons of fields), your resolution is* your spatial sampling frequency. Rendering at a higher resolution captures high-frequency behaviour more accurately, and thus aliasing can be reduced.

*Well, it's directly proportional to it, anyway.

As far as MSAA goes, that's a weird question because of how multisampling works. In terms of geometric detail, multisampling literally is supersampling. The game is using a higher-resolution framebuffer and everything. It's cheaper than full-on supersampling because pixel shading is only being carried out at the final (low) resolution.
Because MSAA only increases the costs at the render output, and because MSAA is typically designed to use more efficient sample patterns than the downsampling method being discussed in this thread, MSAA is usually MUCH more efficient for dealing with geometric aliasing than supersampling. However, supersampling is capable of dealing with all spatial aliasing (not just geometric jaggies), and can even improve stuff like texture filtering.
It's not necessarily a terrible idea to combine low-order supersampling with other forms of AA, when practical.

 

[Levyne]

So I'm just trying some downsampling, I'm fairly green at this I have a 1900x1200p 59hz monitor, single 780 and 4770k with slight overclocks to get you an idea of performance. I went into the control panel and set up a 2880x1800 resolution. Tested with 2 games and seems to work/support but I'm unsure I can actually convince myself that I am noticing a quality difference (though the Steam UI indicates that it has indeed taken effect, very tiny!)

Is my downsample factor fine? Any other red flags? I'm running a good machine but not one of the monsters that some of the guys here have. Just wondering if anything pops out that I am doing incorrectly or improperly. For instance running the downsamling in Resi 6 see no drops but in Sleeping Dogs runs rather slow. I guess if you downsample the idea is to not enable "extreme AA" on top of it (unless your machine can handle that?)

 

[Tinabina]

Has anyone successfully downsampled on a 2560x1600 monitor? Specifically on a Dell 3007wfp?

 

[IAmRandom31]

I'm a little confused as I just got into PC gaming, but is down sampling better than AA? Like if I had to choose between 8x MSAA or whatever and 1440p+ rendering, would the 1440p image help eliminate more jaggies at a comparable AA level?

I want to try down sampling but I love a good framerate. Running a GTX 770 4GB if it helps.

Yeah BF4 has some built in supersampling stuff that is fun to play with. I did this on my 6770 ( cant wait to replace this old thing and really get crazy )

These images are LOW graphic detail settings, NO AA, NO AO, and 720p resolutions. Only thing, 200% resolution scale ( supersampling )

The shocking thing to me was the nigh elimination of jaggies and aliasing in the moving picture. You can see the result in the pictures too. Even at 720p, simple supersampling does the trick

 

[Dennis]

Has anyone successfully downsampled on a 2560x1600 monitor? Specifically on a Dell 3007wfp?

I have that exact monitor and I can't get it to work.

 

[Echoplx]

Has anyone successfully downsampled on a 2560x1600 monitor? Specifically on a Dell 3007wfp?

You can try playing around with this:

http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/42956/?tab=1&navtag=/ajax/moddescription/?id=42956&preview=&pUp=1

It has a downsampling option, I've only tested it with Sonic Racing Transformed.. It works but can be a bit flaky.

 

[Dick Justice]

For a 1360x768 TV, what are the preferred custom resolutions to use?

 

[Stallion Free]

For a 1360x768 TV, what are the preferred custom resolutions to use?

Try doubling the resolution to start so: 2720x1536

If the TV rejects that try 1.5x the base resolution: 2040x1152

 

[Dick Justice]

Try doubling the resolution to start so: 2720x1536

If the TV rejects that try 1.5x the base resolution: 2040x1152

Yeah, it goes black when trying double the resolution, but works with 1.5x. What's strange is that it accepts 3200x1800 (which looks nice, but tanks the framerate).

 

[Stallion Free]

Yeah, it goes black when trying double the resolution, but works with 1.5x. What's strange is that it accepts 3200x1800 (which looks nice, but tanks the framerate).

It's handy having a crazy large resolution on hand for snapping screenshots, but the 1.5x resolution should run great and look nice on the screen. I have been very pleased with image quality using 2880x1620 on my 1080p TV (1.5x as well).

 

[Dick Justice]

It's handy having a crazy large resolution on hand for snapping screenshots, but the 1.5x resolution should run great and look nice on the screen. I have been very pleased with image quality using 2880x1620 on my 1080p TV (1.5x as well).

Indeed, 2040x1152 looks nice (minor improvement over 1080p) and the framerate holds steady at 60 in all my games.

Something I noticed with switching to 3200x1800 was that my screen darkened, like it does when going to its native resolution or below in a game, and the tv said it was in 1360x768 rather than 1080p.

 

[Dick Justice]

Hmm, now I'm noticing some weird flickering or whatever on the edges of my screen when using the custom resolution. Is there any way to fix this?

 

[Sanjay]

Has anyone downsampled on a 2560X1440 monitor? I have a Crossover ips korean monitor.

 

[TheVampire]

I have a problem with doing this on my HDTV

In the Nvidia Control Panel under Adust desktop size and position - there is no option to set perform scaling on GPU.

On my HDTV that is missing but on my PC monitor its there??

 

[Moral Panic]

Has anyone downsampled on a 2560X1440 monitor? I have a Crossover ips korean monitor.

I can get 4K (3840x2160) @ 30fps. Haven't really tried others.

 

[Terbinator]

Has anyone downsampled on a 2560X1440 monitor? I have a Crossover ips korean monitor.

Dell U2711 here and i can only downsample if the refresh rate is lower than 60Hz.

I have a problem with doing this on my HDTV

In the Nvidia Control Panel under Adust desktop size and position - there is no option to set perform scaling on GPU.

On my HDTV that is missing but on my PC monitor its there??

Could it be something to do with HDMI rather than, DVI/DP when connected to your monitor?

 

[PhilGPT]

I have a problem with doing this on my HDTV

In the Nvidia Control Panel under Adust desktop size and position - there is no option to set perform scaling on GPU.

On my HDTV that is missing but on my PC monitor its there??

Yeah, I have the same problem.
On my LED 3DTV, there is no option in Nvidia's CP to set scaling on GPU, but it is there on my monitor.
I also tried hooking up an older non-3D LCD HDTV and the scaling on GPU was back on too.

Is your TV 3D?
It could be that the 3DTV's handle the signal processing differently or something, and to avoid problems, the TV's built-in scaler is handling all the scaling.
I dunno....

There may be a way to trick the PC into thinking the 3DTV is a 3D monitor (check here)
therefore enabling scaling on GPU for 3DTV's, but I haven't tried it (and the link I posted is ONLY for LG 3DTV's... I have a Sony, so can't test it out)

 

[Caladolen]

I can up the resolution to 2400x1500 on my Samsung 226BW but any higher than that and it only shows like the top 20 pixels of the screen. Any suggestions?

 

[SneakyStephan]

It's handy having a crazy large resolution on hand for snapping screenshots, but the 1.5x resolution should run great and look nice on the screen. I have been very pleased with image quality using 2880x1620 on my 1080p TV (1.5x as well).

Wait you let your tv handle the scaling? I thought on nvidia gpus the gpu did the scaling before sending it to the monitor/tv (and on amd's bandaid custom resolution hack it didn't)
You realise making your tv scale an image will add input lag, right?

 

[Morzak]

So after finally receiving a working 780, I'm ready to downsample, but it seems no matter what settings I choose I have the same problem. Resolution change works but then the screen goes black (with a gray border on top) then comes back and back to black after a few seconds. This happens at basically all resolution at 60 or 59 HZ.

Resolutions:
3840x2160
3200x1800
2560x1440

Setup is a BenQ XL2420T and a ASUS DCII GTX-780 connected through dual link DVI.

Does anyone have any tips to get rid of the issue?

 

[MrRoderick]

To those of you with the 'thin top bit o pixels'. Have you tried incrementally decreasing your total pixels in manual timings? I have found that if you use your native res, then count down by ~10 you will soon find a vert count that doesn't work. Put it back up by 1 till it does again. Then keep trying to go down with the horizontal. You'll find your minimum. From there try to downsple your larger resolutions. Keep in mind that diff monitors require diff refresh rates, for instance mine needs 54hz for 4k. You may need to go lower than 59hz and it may require the edid override stuff.

 

[Barrow Roll]

Slightly OT, but also slightly on topic since it's a question about SSAA:

Can someone explain to me what all the different SSAA options in Nvidia Inspector mean? For example, I see 2x1, 1x2, and 2x2. Which of these would be say, equivalent to the 2x SSAA setting in Tomb Raider?

 

[Travis Touchdown]

I can't select GPU scaling in the nvidia panel, just Display.
What should I do? Does it change anything?

 

[Morzak]

so I got 2560x1440@60Hz and 3840x2160@30HZ working at least on the desktop. But it seems that everytime I launch a game the Resolution resets to 1080P. Will have to test a bit more if I have some time.

 

[Thorgal]

so I got 2560x1440@60Hz and 3840x2160@30HZ working at least on the desktop. But it seems that everytime I launch a game the Resolution resets to 1080P. Will have to test a bit more if I have some time.

Can't you change the resolution to 2160 in the ingame options menu ?

setting the desktop screen to that resolution is only necessary if the game doesn't detect higher resolutions then 1080p.

 

[Morzak]

Can't you change the resolution to 2160 in the ingame options menu ?

setting the desktop screen to that resolution is only necessary if the game doesn't detect higher resolutions then 1080p.

Hm 2160 is not detected by games at least not the ones I tested with, after setting up 1440P this is now recognized by games. And even that jump makes a big difference. COJ: Gunslinger and ME1 look way cleaner.

 

[Santini]

I have a problem with doing this on my HDTV

In the Nvidia Control Panel under Adust desktop size and position - there is no option to set perform scaling on GPU.

On my HDTV that is missing but on my PC monitor its there??

Yeah, I have the same problem.
On my LED 3DTV, there is no option in Nvidia's CP to set scaling on GPU, but it is there on my monitor.
I also tried hooking up an older non-3D LCD HDTV and the scaling on GPU was back on too.

Is your TV 3D?
It could be that the 3DTV's handle the signal processing differently or something, and to avoid problems, the TV's built-in scaler is handling all the scaling.
I dunno....

There may be a way to trick the PC into thinking the 3DTV is a 3D monitor (check here)
therefore enabling scaling on GPU for 3DTV's, but I haven't tried it (and the link I posted is ONLY for LG 3DTV's... I have a Sony, so can't test it out)

I can't select GPU scaling in the nvidia panel, just Display.
What should I do? Does it change anything?

For anyone with a 3DTV connected via HDMI that can't select the option to "perform scaling on GPU":

Here's how I got downsampling to work for me. I will note that doing this affected my ability to play PC games properly in 3D. I didn't mess around with any settings to see if the issue was actually fixable, and simply reverted back to how things were for the moment until I could devote more time to it.

I have a Samsung 3DTV that is an active 3D model (uses shutter glasses) and not a passive 3D model (uses polarized glasses). Like the posters above, I couldn't select the option to perform scaling on the GPU in the Nvidia Control Panel. I looked at the link from above, as well as this one, and was able to get downsampling working for my display.

I grabbed the moninfo utility from the second link, followed the directions as listed, and ended up with a monitor.inf file and a monitor_modded.inf file. In Windows Device Manager, I updated the driver for my Generic PnP Monitor with the (unsigned) monitor_modded.inf file and rebooted when it was done installing.

After restarting, I apparently no longer had a Generic PnP Monitor/Samsung display, but an "Acer Samsung" display. I went to the Nvidia Control Panel and was actually able to select GPU and of course, do some downsampling tests on a variety of games I had installed. Very awesome, and thanks to Corky for starting this thread and sharing!

In regards to why I switched back: downsampling worked out great, but whenever I had the Nvidia 3DTV Play driver enabled, games would launch and appear to display in 3D. This wasn't normal behavior. The display didn't detect and start the process automatically, and the convergence and depth were way off when I manually turned the 3D feature on. The monitor_modded.inf file fix was intended for passive 3D displays, of which mine is not.

After doing some downsampling tests, I reverted back to my original/properly working for 3D monitor driver. As expected, I can't select "perform scaling on GPU", but at least I know that downsampling works on my setup when I can get back to messing around with it.

 

[Vazra]

Im trying to make my computer downsample stuff but it does not have the option

 

[jsnepo]

Doe the same thing happens with TVs that take 1080p source but can only output in 1366x768 resolution?

 

[demosthenes]

First time seeing this thread! Can't wait to try when my new computer gets setup with my 780.

 

[Serdal]

Here's what works on Benq XL2420T with GTX780 to save someone the trouble of testing it all (auto timings) :

Sorry for russian, but you should be able to grasp it just fine.

Edit : Nearly got 4K@60 - settings for 4K@59.9 (pixel values are absolute minimum) :

 

[jim2point0]

1440p monitors are too complicated to downsample on it seems. I can't get 4K to work at 60hz. Definitely can't do 2x native.

I guess I'll use this as a secondary monitor and stick to gaming on my 1080p monitor. 4K is too nice to give up when I can use it.

 

[TheVampire]

Theres something I don't get about downsampling.

I set it up right in the nvidia control pannel and when in game I know its working because the resolution is bigger and my fraps counter is smaller and when I take a screenshot its in the larger resolution and not my normal 1920x1080.

However it some games like fallout it seem seems kinda jaggy or not perfect even with downsampling.

But If I were to take a screenshot ingame and then go into photoshop and save it and change it's resolution back down to 1920x1080 the screenshot looks perfect and alot better then the minute ago when I was ingame standing still where I just took the picture.

Does that make sense?

 

[10k]

So I am playing mass effect 3 downsampled for the first time (3200x1800 down to a 1080p monitor) and the HUD and text doesn't resize itself like the first two game. It's stays tiny as hell and I can't edit it or change it in the ini file. Apparently, I need some coalesced file utility thing. Is there anyway to fix this?

 

[MrRoderick]

Theres something I don't get about downsampling.

I set it up right in the nvidia control pannel and when in game I know its working because the resolution is bigger and my fraps counter is smaller and when I take a screenshot its in the larger resolution and not my normal 1920x1080.

However it some games like fallout it seem seems kinda jaggy or not perfect even with downsampling.

But If I were to take a screenshot ingame and then go into photoshop and save it and change it's resolution back down to 1920x1080 the screenshot looks perfect and alot better then the minute ago when I was ingame standing still where I just took the picture.

Does that make sense?

I know for me that the enb (skyrim) down sampling is very jaggy while playing, but smooth in actuality, and also when playing in a borderless window things get jaggy as well (any game). Either of these two happening?

 

[Stet]

So I am playing mass effect 3 downsampled for the first time (3200x1800 down to a 1080p monitor) and the HUD and text doesn't resize itself like the first two game. It's stays tiny as hell and I can't edit it or change it in the ini file. Apparently, I need some coalesced file utility thing. Is there anyway to fix this?

This varies game to game, and it's really irritating. Most games don't have an option without being modded.

 

[BWJinxing]

Has anyone successfully downsampled on a 2560x1600 monitor? Specifically on a Dell 3007wfp?

Ive managed to do it on my Asus PB27Q. It was a pain in the ass. I actually had to switch over to my DisplayPort cable as it provided enough bandwidth to do 30Hz at 4k.

Following the directions here, I find it easy just to decrease the refresh rate and leave the clocks alone.

If you can do displayport, that would be your best bet, DP can push much higher resolutions and refresh rates in general.

 

[10k]

This varies game to game, and it's really irritating. Most games don't have an option without being modded.

I wanna punch Bioware in the face lol. It's things like this that are making me decide to go console only for the next trilogy but I know I won't get 1080p60 Mass Effect for PS4 down sampled with max settings.

 

[pottuvoi]

Slightly OT, but also slightly on topic since it's a question about SSAA:

Can someone explain to me what all the different SSAA options in Nvidia Inspector mean? For example, I see 2x1, 1x2, and 2x2. Which of these would be say, equivalent to the 2x SSAA setting in Tomb Raider?

The numbers are about multiples of resolution in each direction. (horizontal x vertical)

IE.
640x480 using 1x2 is actually rendered as 640x960 and then 'downsampled' to 640x480 for final image. (2xSSAA with SSAA samples being top of each other)
So 4x4 is a 16xSSAA mode rendered in resolution 4 times the original in each direction. (640x480 would be rendered in 2560x1920 and resulting in quite nice image quality.)

 

[Barrow Roll]

I wanna punch Bioware in the face lol. It's things like this that are making me decide to go console only for the next trilogy but I know I won't get 1080p60 Mass Effect for PS4 down sampled with max settings.

You could try SGSSAA instead. At 4x SGSSAA the image quality is superb. Be sure to use 0x080000C1 for the compatibility bits.

The numbers are about multiples of resolution in each direction. (horizontal x vertical)

IE.
640x480 using 1x2 is actually rendered as 640x960 and then 'downsampled' to 640x480 for final image. (2xSSAA with SSAA samples being top of each other)
So 4x4 is a 16xSSAA mode rendered in resolution 4 times the original in each direction. (640x480 would be rendered in 2560x1920 and resulting in quite nice image quality.)

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Alright, I'm very new to PC gaming and I went ahead and set up the resolution profiles in NVidia Control Panel up to 4K. I have a 1920x1080 monitor. To downsample correctly, do I leave my monitor's resolution at native 1080p while raising a game's resolution to say...1440p? Is that right? Sorry for the nooby questions.

 

[scitek]

Alright, I'm very new to PC gaming and I went ahead and set up the resolution profiles in NVidia Control Panel up to 4K. I have a 1920x1080 monitor. To downsample correctly, do I leave my monitor's resolution at native 1080p while raising a game's resolution to say...1440p? Is that right? Sorry for the nooby questions.

You leave your desktop at 1080p, and just change the in-game resolution to whatever you wanna downsample from.

 

[jim2point0]

This was just a butt-ton of trial and error...

 

[DirgeExtinction]

You leave your desktop at 1080p, and just change the in-game resolution to whatever you wanna downsample from.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Ran Echelon]

I was having trouble getting above 1800p on my monitor (Dell U2311H), so I tried following this guide.
That didn't really help, but the settings shown in 'Example 2' on that page worked perfectly and now..

I had a few questions:
If you have every type of AA available, what gives the best IQ? Is downsampling better than SGSSAA?
If I'm using 4k downsampling and I still have jaggies, what kind of AA is best to combine with it (assuming performance to spare)?
Is there anything to watch out for when combing downsampling and other forms of AA, like how you need to match the number of samples of AA and transparency supersampling with SGSSAA?

 

[Durante]

SGSSAA is, per sample, the best AA method available. Downsampling is equivalent to OGSSAA, which has issues with near-horizontal and near-vertical lines.

 

[TheDefinitionOfInsanity]

Ive managed to do it on my Asus PB27Q. It was a pain in the ass. I actually had to switch over to my DisplayPort cable as it provided enough bandwidth to do 30Hz at 4k.

Following the directions here, I find it easy just to decrease the refresh rate and leave the clocks alone.

If you can do displayport, that would be your best bet, DP can push much higher resolutions and refresh rates in general.

PB278Q owner here. I was able to get 5120x2880@30Hz and 4K@40Hz via DisplayPort. DVI is not much good, it won't allow me to run the monitor at 30Hz, it just says "out of range".

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Anyone ever have a game open up in windowed mode and then not be able to change the resolution? I had this happen w/Crysis. After booting, the game is in windowed mode and my mouse cursor isn't aligned properly, so I can't change the settings in game. I tried using the arrow keys and I'm still unable to apply the changes to the settings (full screen mode) because it's out of alignment. I also tried reverting the settings in Nvidia control panel by disabling the custom resolutions and scaling, but the game is still booting in windows mode and in a higher resolution than my monitor supports.

Edit - NVM. Hitting "alt+enter" fixed the problem.

 

[Wanny]

SGSSAA is, per sample, the best AA method available. Downsampling is equivalent to OGSSAA, which has issues with near-horizontal and near-vertical lines.

I never got SGSSAA to work in my life and found it overcomplicated with all the nvidia AA flags crap. Downsample is so much easier.