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Dragon Age 3 details leak through survey [Up: Lots of info/character art]
- Thread starter thekonamicode
- Start date
∀ Narayan;41194981 said:
I personally liked DAII's storyline, but I'd call the rest of the game mediocre. It's one of those experiences that in the end you would call "painless" because while not really good, the game wasn't what I would call "unenjoyable". If that makes any sense.
Dragon Age was actually one of *EA's* most successful new IP launches ever.
That said, given how much ME3 has sold through in NPD launch and LTDs, combined with its reported revenue, it probably is the one BioWare game to overtake Dragon Age 1.
However, one thing worth noting with Dragon Age 1 was that it launched pretty much with constant $30-$40 sales. Back when I was checking their forum for Dragon Age 2 info, David Gaider once implied that the game actually wasn't profitable, so that would fit with the original development cycle and the out the gate price cuts.
Now, that could have set them up fantastically for a sequel that really improved on everything, but EA kind of blew it in the same way they blew taking Army of Two's 2.5 million selling first entry into a much bigger franchise like they did with Battlefield on console.
I'm not surprised it wasn't profitable, but that's simply because of how long it took to make. Wasn't it in development for six years?
Yeah. Part of the team went over to make Jade Empire, but they fused back together for quite a while after that game shipped.
Yeah anyway, in regards to sales, there are charts easily findable on Google image search showing how the first two games did in the first 10 weeks on consoles. DAII started out ahead of the first game for week 1, but fell behind Origins afterwards until basically falling off completely after around week 5. Origins stayed pretty strong through around week 8. There is another chart on Google image search throwing Mass Effect 2 into the equation. It exploded past both DA games for week 1 but fell behind even Origins by week 4.
Revenue and profits would be interesting to compare too, if Origins was in fact not profitable at all.
Revenue and profits would be interesting to compare too, if Origins was in fact not profitable at all.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Apparently, according to a poster on BioWare Social, the logo is a fake, fanmade logo.
Some of the problems I had with DA2's combat:
- For PC, the camera sucked. Anytime you're fighting the camera more than the enemies, thats a problem. It didn't zoom out far enough and so you couldn't see the whole battlefield. And Origins' camera was great- I don't know why they changed it.
- The combat itself had a major identity crisis. It was too fast (IMO) to work well as a tactical, party based game but too slow to be played as a proper hack and slash. I want Dragon Age games to be tactical pause and play party based RPGs. Slower combat works for that. Positioning and tactics should be key. Not just spamming abilities on cooldowns and controlling mostly one character because the combat is so fast as to preclude proper control over other party members.
- The encounter design was terrible. Now, it wasn't great in DA:Origins but the waves in DA2 and parachuting ninja enemies or teleporting mages who'd teleport right behind you were embarrassingly bad.
- No extra specializations for party members. The nice thing in Origins was how all your party members had a specialization slot. So you weren't forced to keep Wynne for a healer, you could give Morrigan the healer specialization to take her with you if you wanted. DA2 made it so if you wanted to bring a healer with you, it had to be douchebag Anders.
- Pointless cooldown timers on potions.
-No friendly fire on any difficulty but Nightmare.
If the charts are based on site-which-must-not-be-named, you'd have just as good a chance of getting accurate data from reading tea leaves.
gioGAF
Member
Bioware should not call this "Dragon Age 3". Everyone I know was totally disgusted by Dragon Age 2 (myself included), so trying to disassociate this entry from number 2 would be a good idea. They could call it "Dragon Age: Something something cool", that might help people who were burned by the last entry think this is Bioware returning to form.
Henchmen21
Banned
You can make Merrill a healer (or yourself if you play as mage).
No you couldn't. Merril did not even have access to the regular healing spells, let alone the spirit healer tree.
Specializations really didn't serve much a purpose either way (a problem that DA:O had to a much lesser extent).
I find that believable since it didn't come with the survey. Thanks, removing it.
ElectricBlue187
Member
good god what an awful logo
edit: also apparently fake
yea, doesnt make much sense to put out a marketing survey and not have a question about the logo
Eh. Wonder how they'll handle the 3rd one since they completely changed a very very important part of the storyline
Comic Spoiler!!!
like this is now canon.
And no more Hawke please. Bring back the Wardens dang it!
Comic Spoiler!!!
Alistair is king. Knows Varric and Isabella and went looking for his father king Marric
And no more Hawke please. Bring back the Wardens dang it!
What was wrong with speeding up combat? The hack-n-slash opened the game up to more casual players, which would have resulted in more revenue to plow back into the franchise. You could still pause the action at any time and set even more automatic tactical movements by the party without expense to your character build. That doesn't fix the phantom enemy problem, but at least now more people could have played through to the end without feeling overwhelmed like with DAO. Unfortunately most didn't cause the story sucked and the human characters sacrificed too much likability for originality.
I'd think they would carry that choice over to DA3 since it was intact in 2. Then again, they may overwrite the player's choice to make the game play out how they want to like what they did with Leliana.
I would rather they go back to the DA:O format and then improve upon that. DA2 felt like a step backwards in almost every way except for the story concept.
Oddly enough, overwhelmed is exactly the word I'd use for DA2's combat. Everyone moves so fast that it's almost impossible to control or formulate a plan. Sure you can still pause it, but the moment you unpause it everyone jumps and zooms around the battlefield like an idiot and any battle plan you might have had would be lost. I prefer slower paced combat that really lets you plan things out. I don't really like hack-n-slash games nearly as much as full on RPGs, but Dragon Age 2 wasn't good at being either.
I don't think it's possible for this game to be worse than DA2, but if anyone can manage to pull it off, it's BioWare
Agree with all of those, though Origins was a bit difficult for me at times, playing DAII with any strategy at all made the game a cakewalk.
The bolded though exemplifies where BioWare wanted the game to go. I played the demo on both PC and consoles and on consoles it really felt like they just wanted you to worry about one character and let everyone else run on autopilot, very similar to Mass Effect (though you could now pause and switch control on console too). Actually, playing the DAII demo on PS3 felt very similar to a lot of Japanese party-based action RPGs I'd played in the past.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
I know at least Gaider has mentioned that the comics only use a set canon for the sake of the comics and that player choices in games will carry forward. But then again, he brought back Leliana from the dead if you killed her in origins, so who knows.
Yeah, being able to control your whole party is what makes me enjoy a Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age style game. Not just being stuck in control of one character. Being able to set the AI routines is good, but in both Dragon Age games, the AI tactics rarely seem to actually work.
I just think party based tactical combat should require the player to actively be controlling the whole party, not just one character. And making things faster means you're probably going to end up focusing on only one character.
Based on PAX East, they acknowledge that as an issue, and it sounds like they're going to try to create more weight. Limiting you to one specialization, and then having that have story ramifications is what they hinted at. So think probably a minor sidequest or sidequest chain.
You say opened it up, but it sold worse and got worse reviews than Dragon Age: Origins. So, in a way, it actually limited the audience. Also, it's 41 percent to 36 percent for completion percentages, which isn't a huge difference, and given that DA:O sold more than DA2 it's likely that there are more people who finished Origins than those who finished DA2 (36 percent of a larger number is probably larger than 41 percent of a smaller number).
Also, it's an RPG, not a hack-n-slash.
ChimpanzeeThat
Member
As a MASSIVE Origins fan, I must admit that I am intrigued by this.
I love BioWare but they have disappointed me recently with Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, but I think they know that extends to a lot of their fans so they're carefully crafting this game. That's what I hope anyway, another Dragon Age 2 type disaster would actually kill my faith in that studio 100%.
If they do a multiplayer component in the game, I would quite like it to reflect what they done with ME3, as that was really the only thing I enjoyed about that game if I'm being honest.
They could do it so you could team up to clear areas of monsters, Darkspawn and other enemies. That would be interesting.
I love BioWare but they have disappointed me recently with Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, but I think they know that extends to a lot of their fans so they're carefully crafting this game. That's what I hope anyway, another Dragon Age 2 type disaster would actually kill my faith in that studio 100%.
If they do a multiplayer component in the game, I would quite like it to reflect what they done with ME3, as that was really the only thing I enjoyed about that game if I'm being honest.
They could do it so you could team up to clear areas of monsters, Darkspawn and other enemies. That would be interesting.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Can you give some examples of what it felt like? Cause, while I can't claim to have played THAT many Japanese APGs, I never got that kind of feel from DA2.RedSwirl said:
Well, it didn't, and the sooner Bioware realizes that RPGs by nature aren't going to gross Call of Duty numbers the better.
Actually in DAII I just ended up micro-managing every second of each battle. Made the game way too easy in the long run.
I think one game that makes a good compromise is Final Fantasy XII. If you use the gambit system right the AI routines in that game actually work very well, but you can still pause and micro-manage everyone if you want.
Rogue Galaxy, Tales of Symphonia, stuff like that.
I know man! Demon's Souls was one of those games that managed to take European dark fantasy and still make it look unique. I love it when games and other media in fantasy actually manage to do that. The Witcher 2 is another great example - it actually looks more... well European instead of generic fantasy. The Souls games seem to be taking their influence from dark fantasy manga like Berserk.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Really? Maybe it's because I haven't replayed Symphonia recently, but never thought of it while playing DA2; the latter of which feels much too stiff and not remotely as technical as the former.RedSwirl said:
Metal Gear?!
Member
It's probably EA that needs to realize that, and they're probably not looking for Call of Duty numbers, more like Skyrim numbers.
If I get to pick my origins again, or if I get to bring back my Dwarven Noble, I'll give them a second chance. I know they'll fuck me over, but I got so attached to my character. DA:O is probably the only game I ever got really attached to my dude. Shepard it's like 'whatever, he's just the guy they want me to play, and i can make a few choices'. Duran Aeducan is the fucking scourge of Ferelden. He is a mighty warrior who punches women in the stomach and stabs children.
You know, they should check out the release cycle the one RPG franchise that actually sells the numbers they desire is on.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
To be fair, and this is an incredibly unpopular opinion, Elder Scrolls games are much, much more popular than any BioWare title. The brand has had years to develop. Literally years. Nobody is going to jump into Dragon Age 2 (or even 1) the same way they jump into Skyrim.
As much as we say we want new IPs, how much do we say we want Mirror's Edge 2?
Is there any reason to believe Bioware would do any better if EA wasn't pushing them? Would they go back to their roots and make an RPG the 'hardcore' want instead of a 'romance everything in every possible way then make a sandwich' game?
I don't have any faith that DA3 will be better than 2. DAO was a great base to build on, and sure I hope Bioware realizes it and goes back to that, but just how likely is that when they're trying to reach the masses with everything they do.
I don't have any faith that DA3 will be better than 2. DAO was a great base to build on, and sure I hope Bioware realizes it and goes back to that, but just how likely is that when they're trying to reach the masses with everything they do.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Bethesda's also not losing money every time they piss, so there's also that.
I enjoyed Origins, up to a point, but it had too much filler. How many grimlocks, err genlocks, can you kill before getting bored with them. It really need a wider variety of enemies and more of a living world. The side tracks always seemed a bit tacked on.
Still I wished they would have focused on improving what they had rather than what they did with DAII.
I'm in wait and see mode for DA3.
Still I wished they would have focused on improving what they had rather than what they did with DAII.
I'm in wait and see mode for DA3.
Zenimax, parent company of Bethesda, is private and probably doesn't feel the same pressure to deliver to shareholders as EA does.
EA has seemed to be taking a "Fuck the long term, what have you done for me lately?" attitude when it comes to, well, everything lately.
Sir Garbageman
Member
I know I shouldn't be but for whatever reason I'm cautiously optimistic about this game. After the insane amount of backlash from DA2 and the ME3 ending you would hope Bioware would be able to get their shit together.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Not sure what to think.
Cautious optimism doesn't come to mind.
Meh and Wait till it's out, do.
Cautious optimism doesn't come to mind.
Meh and Wait till it's out, do.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Not that there was much doubt as to the survey's legitimacy at this point, but CinemaBlend was apparently contacted by EA's lawyers to pull the screencaps of the characters and possible titles.
ComputerMKII
Banned
It's Mass Effect 3 all over again. Better lawyer up, GAF.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I don't think it's possible for this game to be worse than DA2, but if anyone can manage to pull it off, it's BioWare
DA2 is the only legitimately bad game they've released in recent memory, and it's not like it will be hard to top the incredibly bland offering that was DA1.
The only time I had problems dealing with the speed of the game was setting up AOE. Still, when I did have problems with characters running all over the place, it was because I didn't set their first target. What was really nice was usually a party member would break off a current target to take advantage of an enemy disoriented, staggered, or brittle as soon as a cooldown was finished if you took the time to set the tactics appropriately.
I didn't think I had to be explicit in saying that the hack-in-slash gameplay was added in an attempt simplify things for less experienced users and an attempt to broaden the audience. Obviously this didn't happen because of the other more serious problems with the game stemming from a rushed schedule and talent drain. Of course the ensuing bad reviews dragged sales down hard.
Also, hack-n-slash and RPG mechanics overlap all the time. Labeling a game one doesn't mean that mechanics of the other cannot be found or implemented in it. And, just because both weren't executed optimally, doesn't mean that they couldn't have been done well if given better resources. Furthermore, it isn't like the RPG mechanics were wiped from the game like with MA2. I could foolishly dump all attribute points into fortitude if I didn't care about getting better weapons for everyone.
Anyway, I'll give DA3 a shot no matter what the mechanics as I'm interested to see if how Bioware will deal with critiques. Considering how MA3's gameplay was revised and the excellent support/updates the multiplayer was given, I'm anxious to see whether similar results are coming with DA3. Also, I guess I'm curious as to whether fans of DAO found DA2's and MA3's sins to be so grievous that they've already decided to stay away from DA3.