He didn't train alone for 4 months, he spent 10 years.
Plus remember he has infinite stamina so he can keep up his training sessions for super long.
Buu can't feel 17 so he obviously didn't target him.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
- Status
He didn't train alone for 4 months, he spent 10 years.
Plus remember he has infinite stamina so he can keep up his training sessions for super long.
Buu can't feel 17 so he obviously didn't target him.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Still bullshit.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I hope this weird post glitch is fixed soon.
Like Vegeta? You can argue Vegeta had his gravity chamber, but 17's base power is way higher than his so that probably makes up the difference.
Like Vegeta? You can argue Vegeta had his gravity chamber, but 17's base power is way higher than his so that probably makes up the difference.
leatherhat
Member
Forget it piccolo, it's dragonballtown.
How is it bullshit though ?
Training with someone makes things faster, but it's not mandatory.
Anybody doing sports at high level have to train on their own too you know. I don't see why it would be different here.
17 has infinite stamina, that means he can put himself through more intense training than anybody else.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
10 years is a long time and 17 was on a level about equal to Piccolo in the Cell Saga, and that with zero training. Incidentally, Piccolo is now back doing stuff too. I mean, no, it's not the best explanation, but in the context of Super it's not entirely unbelievable.
Undead Fantasy
Member
It's GT town this week.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I thought it was funny that 17 said he knew who Trunks is, but Goku didn't bother explaining that he doesn't know this Trunks.
Also it was cute that he was proud of how strong Goten is.
Also it was cute that he was proud of how strong Goten is.
Power levels are a serious business.
Now Toriyama, give me my Ascended Mystic SSJ2SSGod Ki Gohan. 20 hours of training with Piccolo should be enough right?
Well the funny thing is rather that he never heard the name "Trunks" before.
Which would imply he was conscious when within Cell. (I suggested it was the case, since he became a park ranger to protect nature, it felt like a direct answer to 16's speech, that cell killed in front of Gohan)
also arched, are you gonna work on gifs or do I have to make them this week ?
ArchedThunder
Banned
Undead Fantasy
Member
Maybe 17 is psychic.
What's one more bullshit boost.
What's one more bullshit boost.
Aye lol Dude, 90% of your complaints have been answered. It may not be to your liking but this is not some special, never before seen bullshit in this show. I mean, you are literally taking power levels seriously...
Okay imagine this: Z, compared to OG Dragonball, is even more jumping the shark batshit insane than super is to Z. Are you willing to write off Z now? Heck, so many characters were thrown out because it didn't fit with the author's (and fans) current needs or situations because of how more serious and insane the show became.
Super isn't special. It has only continued the insane power levels (lol seriously you're like Namek Vegeta right now) and other insane stuff. Not saying your can't critisize something you don't like or feels like bullshit. I find that gotten and trunks turning super saiyan crazier than anything in Super.
Just don't act like this is completely new or something impossible in Dragonball. It isn't.
Well no because then he'd know who Goten is.
But hey cutie pie, answer me this :
When shitccolo fused with kami, and somehow completely outclassed Frieza and matched the androids, did it bother you ?
Undead Fantasy
Member
Eh? No. It was already confirmed Piccolo was as strong as Super Saiyans by Krillin.
TheSpoiler
Member
Did the episode explain the infinite stamina thing being the catalyst of his good training? Or did they just say "he trained"? Did they give an explanation? I guess people want a full on explanation instead of inferring things that are probably correct, but most shonen have a line or two to get shit going.
Personally, this one makes more sense than Trunks full stop,but I can see why someone might not be happy with the basic answer if that's what they gave.
Personally, this one makes more sense than Trunks full stop,but I can see why someone might not be happy with the basic answer if that's what they gave.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Undead Fantasy
Member
The episode already did that.
RareFantasy64
Member
SSB was such a stupid transformation. It's like a filler power up. I feel like we got Rose because of blue. And Rose looks awesome on Goku Black so I appreciate Blue for that.
Undead Fantasy
Member
ArchedThunder
Banned
Everyone wants to talk about 17, but honestly the thing that got me most excited was the fact that they spent a good minute or two talking about Uub.
That's not exactly what he said though.
As in "wow he's not even a super saiyan yet he's impressive". But it was confirmed Piccolo was weaker than Vegeta.
And it's also irrelevant because of this :
The fact is that by merging with a Dragon Ball tier character (Kami), Piccolo ended up getting as powerful as the strongest character (at the time).
Talk about completely undeserved.
that's one thing we can all agree on.
I would think.
It felt too soon after SSG and didn't have qutie the punch of....well any other transformations. Even SSB Kaio Ken was done better than Blue imo.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Yeah gonna call bs on Android 17 as strong as SSB. I just don't buy it. Don't give me that infinite stamina crap.
Undead Fantasy
Member
That's not exactly what he said though.
As in "wow he's not even a super saiyan yet he's impressive". But it was confirmed Piccolo was weaker than Vegeta.
And it's also irrelevant because of this :
The fact is that by merging with a Dragon Ball tier character (Kami), Piccolo ended up getting as powerful as the strongest character (at the time).
Talk about completely undeserved.
Merging back with Kami doubles his power. I see nothing wrong with that...
If Freeza could train and reach ~SSB strength, I see no reason why 17 couldn't either.
Difference is Freeza was tortured in hell and probably had hella inspiration to train his fucking ass off in order to kill the saiyans.
17 seems like a happy dude just chilling with animals, not sure exactly where the super crazy training fits in lol
Difference is Freeza was tortured in hell and probably had hella inspiration to train his fucking ass off in order to kill the saiyans.
17 seems like a happy dude just chilling with animals, not sure exactly where the super crazy training fits in lol
ArchedThunder
Banned
I like Blue...
Undead Fantasy
Member
It doesn't fit because it's bullshit.
It's like....it's cool and has it's moments. But if I were ranking the transformations it would be the bottom and it wouldn't even really be a contest. Know what I mean?
¯\_(ツ
_/¯nice design, bad execution.
ArchedThunder
Banned
17 was proud of his power during the Android arc and then he got shown up and humiliated by Cell, it doesn't seem like a stretch that he would train to me.
Me too lol. Vegeta especially looks awesome in the form.
TheSpoiler
Member
SSG was the biggest mistake. Portraying it as rippling through the universe set a horrible standard for the rest of the show.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
That was another BS Toriyama pulled out of his ass too. Not sure how one wrong makes another wrong right.
I feel like this is all easily solved, but Super really has a problem with... giving certain things an explanation. Tell them the universe it at stake, suddenly 17 and 18 have something to fight for (their families), they go in ROSAT, train their asses off and come out SSB strength.
So you're telling me, that this guy, after the humiliation he faced, comes back to life, and doesn't even attempt to get stronger ? Really ?
RareFantasy64
Member
Exactly. Nothing makes sense after that. How come the universe never exploded any time after that when Goku has put in real effort? THAT is the biggest frustration of power levels when it comes to Super. Not 17 being in the ball park of SS Blue
Goku had to literally punch Beerus in the right spots to make it so their blows wouldn't shatter the universe and people say 17 has broken the ability for immersion in Dragon Ball
ArchedThunder
Banned
^Honestly, I just ignore episode 12 completely.
I do wonder if Super Saiyan God and Blue got nerfed in Super all the way back in the retellings and we just didn't know. In the BoG arc they changed it so Beerus says he went all out, but then Whis calls his lie later and it's not made clear exactly how much of his power he was using in the fight.
I do wonder if Super Saiyan God and Blue got nerfed in Super all the way back in the retellings and we just didn't know. In the BoG arc they changed it so Beerus says he went all out, but then Whis calls his lie later and it's not made clear exactly how much of his power he was using in the fight.
Infinite Justice
Member
The best part of Blue for me is the music that plays
TheSpoiler
Member
It creates the expectation that the rest of whoever Goku fights is literally on that level, or more powerful. It also means he shouldn't be struggling.
Unfortunately, that set the standard for a lot of people. If Blue were, say, SSJ4 levels, do you think people would be mad? Or if God Ki wasn't jerked off so much? Probably not.
Additionally, it would have been better for Super to show the training. DB has always had bullshit, but showing how they trained and the nteh fruits of the labor helped ease people in. I get why people don't like this with those two things. It's about how much you are willing to forgive, in any medium, and for some with Dragon Ball Super that line is short.
I don't blame people who care, and I don't think people who ignore it are wrong. It's just kinda how Super turned out.
Depending on the person, that's easier said than done lol. All shonen has a moment where it's like "what in the fuck" and you either power through or you hate it.
And if they are going for the nerf aspect, I'd expect them to explain that outright, so I don't think it's that.
The Silver
Member
I've always had the complaint that it was dumb that Gero made robots and cyborgs stronger than Frieza, that kind of arc should've happened before Frieza.
Real quick and with the power of hindsight I would've changed it around to something like:
DBZ starts with the androids instead of Raditz, Gohan's(whoever I don't care it just can't be Trunks) the time traveller and it ends with hints of Cell's existence and another time machine.(he still comes after Frieza along with Trunks) Gohan coming back changes shit and somehow results in Raditz coming to earth, Saiyan/Frieza stuff progresses as usual. Cell can just get the dragonballs and wish the androids back so he can transform.
I don't have Trunks coming back first because then I have to figure what happened with Raditz showing up with the androids around and everyone dead and I'm too lazy.
Real quick and with the power of hindsight I would've changed it around to something like:
DBZ starts with the androids instead of Raditz, Gohan's(whoever I don't care it just can't be Trunks) the time traveller and it ends with hints of Cell's existence and another time machine.(he still comes after Frieza along with Trunks) Gohan coming back changes shit and somehow results in Raditz coming to earth, Saiyan/Frieza stuff progresses as usual. Cell can just get the dragonballs and wish the androids back so he can transform.
I don't have Trunks coming back first because then I have to figure what happened with Raditz showing up with the androids around and everyone dead and I'm too lazy.
- Status