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[The Silver]

Gohan's Ultimate form still doesn't have no official name.




Why? Beerus isn't even the strongest person in the series.

uh cause it would destroy his entire dynamic with Goku and the cast, where he stands in relation to the angels and other GoDs is irrelevant. Part what makes Beerus work so well is the interplay with how he's able to go back and forth between slapstick comedy while also reminding you he's a force of nature that's the big boss round these parts. Knowing that when push comes to shove and he could wipe Goku out easily is what gives it teeth. Goku being stronger than him destroys that, Beerus becomes a joke and "just another person"(far more than he already is) he wont be able to back up anything anymore.

Look at that great scene when Beerus was about to kill Goku for trying to contact Zeno, it would have been a joke if we knew Goku could actually beat him, that's the type of relationship they've fostered and I don't want to lose that.

 

[Mister Wolf]

What is this then?

Goku underwent training in ROSAT which has x10 gravity in DB. I guess the writers forgot about that in the Saiyan arc.

It's the pic that let's you know Goku isn't that concerned with saving U7.

 

[ArchedThunder]

New heroes card.

Guess who made it onto the logo of U7. Hehe.

NOW they do bangless Gohan, lol.

 

[Hydrus]

He also had this to say.
"The relationship between Cabe and Vegeta was quite troubled, and we repeatedly revised it. But, I like it very much. There is also an episode that further deepens the relationship after this, please look forward to it. "
Glad they are going to build on that.

What?! Hit's evolving?!

 

[NandoGip]

No, every card for the form.



So? Staw man argument.



Fusions didn't have grotesque Zamasu either, both were anime exclusive and those things take longer to make it into the games, Fusions stopped updating before it could get either.


Dokkan got the form before Heroes premiered the name for it, I JUST told you that.


The form isn't selectable in Xenoverse, but appears in a cutscene. There is nowhere for the name to show up.


It was acknowledged by Shin and everyone was visibly shocked when the transformation happened.


Niether did Kaioken Blue or Grotesque Zamasu, guess those don't exist either?



Because it didn't have a name yet, just like SSJ2 didn't have a name for the longest time.


Except Heroes which you seem to think doesn't count.
There has been nowhere else for the name to show up since it's debut in Heroes.
And you are ignoring the most important part, what happened in the actual show! He has a big dramatic transformation sequence, goes from 2 into Ikari, gets much stronger, later powers up into Ikari from SSJ2 again, and later falls out of the form into SSJ2 because he used too much energy. Add on top of that that there is a seperate character design sheet for the form as well.
Your argument is based entirely around the form not having a name in stuff that it showed up in before it got a name in Heroes and that argument holds no water since it took SSJ2 even longer to get a name. It was a form created by Toei for the anime, it is a form separate from SSJ2 and everything shown in the anime 100% confirms that.

No such thing as Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks in Dokkan

Also theres been tons of rage boosts and things like that haven't been official Super Saiyan forms.

SSJ2 was heavily acknowledged at the time, much different than SSJ Ikari

I'm not saying that something didn't happen with Trunks, what I'm saying is that it's not an official new form like Super Saiyan 1-4, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue/GSS

 

[Magwik]

No such thing as Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks in Dokkan

Also theres been tons of rage boosts and things like that haven't been official Super Saiyan forms.

SSJ2 was heavily acknowledged at the time, much different than SSJ Ikari

I'm not saying that something didn't happen with Trunks, what I'm saying is that it's not an official new form like Super Saiyan 1-4, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue/GSS

Why
Does
It
Even
Matter

 

[Annubis]

This is why I never joined an anime club.

 

[NandoGip]

Why
Does
It
Even
Matter

Bro we're on a video game forum discussing an anime, why does anything matter?

All I did was post an observation I made based off a few things I noticed

 

[ArchedThunder]

No such thing as Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks in Dokkan

The form is in Dokkan, it just isn't named Ikari because Dokkan got it before it got a name, this is the third time I'm telling you this.

Also theres been tons of rage boosts and things like that haven't been official Super Saiyan forms.

He LITERALLY changes form and gets stronger, new hair, new aura. He goes between SSJ2 and Ikari, it is by very definition a new form.

SSJ2 was heavily acknowledged at the time, much different than SSJ Ikari

And Ikari was acknowledged too, just less so verbally and more visually.

I'm not saying that something didn't happen with Trunks, what I'm saying is that it's not an official new form like Super Saiyan 1-4, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue/GSS

It is every bit as much of a new transformation as SSJ2, new hair, big power boost, stacks on top of the previous form and unlike SSJ2 even has a unique aura.

 

[HardRojo]

SSR is a form. It sucks that we don't have much info about it, so hopefully we'll get details as to what it is.

 

[ArchedThunder]

SSR is a form. It sucks that we don't have much info about it, so hopefully we'll get details as to what it is.

They'll probably explain it in the next guide book... whenever that comes out.

 

[Laplasakos]

What is this then?

Obviously Goku Black.

 

[ElFly]

No such thing as Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks in Dokkan

Also theres been tons of rage boosts and things like that haven't been official Super Saiyan forms.

SSJ2 was heavily acknowledged at the time, much different than SSJ Ikari

I'm not saying that something didn't happen with Trunks, what I'm saying is that it's not an official new form like Super Saiyan 1-4, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue/GSS

brah

SSJ2 wasn't even called SSJ2 at the time

also SSJ2 had the benefit of a trillion jobbers standing on the sidelines commenting

SSJ Ikari had everyone who knew about fighting, actually fighting or getting their ass kicked

 

[NandoGip]

The form is in Dokkan, it just isn't named Ikari because Dokkan got it before it got a name, this is the third time I'm telling you this.


He LITERALLY changes form and gets stronger, new hair, new aura. He goes between SSJ2 and Ikari, it is by very definition a new form.



And Ikari was acknowledged too, just less so verbally and more visually.


It is every bit as much of a new transformation as SSJ2, new hair, big power boost, stacks on top of the previous form and unlike SSJ2 even has a unique aura.

Your opinion and fact are two different things

Theres only one acknowledgement of it being an official new form of super saiyan, and everything else points to the opposite

You really think theyd miss an opportunity for video game tie ins and merch?

Ill repeat, my point isnt that Trunks got some form of rage boost or something, my point is that Super Saiyan Ikari isn't a new official form on the same line as SSJ 1-4, SSJ God, SSJ Blue/GSS

Even in XV2 they don't give him the form, the cutscene gives him a blue aura from "the energy from every living thing on the planet"

At this point it even looks like theyre going out of their way to act as if the scene in the anime didnt even happen.

 

[Eylos]

Kalifla Will Go ikari in this tournment, Goku Wil even say "wow the same as Trunks an ikari ssj"

Mark my words

 

[Gin-Shiio]

Kalifla Will Go ikari in this tournment, Goku Wil even say "wow the same as Trunks an ikari ssj when we fought Zamasu in his Grotesque Zamasu form. This really makes me want to make use of my Hakai SSB form right now."

Mark my words

Fixed for completionist sake.

 

[NandoGip]

Kalifla Will Go ikari in this tournment, Goku Wil even say "wow the same as Trunks an ikari ssj"

Mark my words

Lol its funny you say that because even Kales SSJ form has been officially referred to as Berserker in more merch and multiple official summaries/profiles than Trunks rage boost

 

[ArchedThunder]

Your opinion and fact are two different things

Theres only one acknowledgement of it being an official new form of super saiyan, and everything else points to the opposite

You really think theyd miss an opportunity for video game tie ins and merch?

Ill repeat, my point isnt that Trunks got some form of rage boost or something, my point is that Super Saiyan Ikari isn't a new official form on the same line as SSJ 1-4, SSJ God, SSJ Blue/GSS

Even in XV2 they don't give him the form, the cutscene gives him a blue aura from "the energy from every living thing on the planet"

At this point it even looks like theyre going out of their way to act as if the scene in the anime didnt even happen.

It's not my opinion that the anime treats it as a new form, it's fact. NOTHING points to it not being a new form, your only argument is based around the lack of a name until Heroes and that argument holds no water.

They modeled Ikari's hair for the cg cutscene. They aren't going out of their way to ignore it, they included it, it just isn't playable for some dumb reason.

It's a new form. It's anime only, but it exists.

 

[Kagari]

Hmm. https://twitter.com/toshio916/status/879039596775981056

 

[Suburban Thug]

This may be a dumb question but...is it safe to consider Goku and Vegeta friends at this point or could you see him turning evil again?

 

[M.D]

Hmm. https://twitter.com/toshio916/status/879039596775981056

Definitely means Broly

 

[HeroR]

uh cause it would destroy his entire dynamic with Goku and the cast, where he stands in relation to the angels and other GoDs is irrelevant. Part what makes Beerus work so well is the interplay with how he's able to go back and forth between slapstick comedy while also reminding you he's a force of nature that's the big boss round these parts. Knowing that when push comes to shove and he could wipe Goku out easily is what gives it teeth. Goku being stronger than him destroys that, Beerus becomes a joke and "just another person"(far more than he already is) he wont be able to back up anything anymore.

Look at that great scene when Beerus was about to kill Goku for trying to contact Zeno, it would have been a joke if we knew Goku could actually beat him, that's the type of relationship they've fostered and I don't want to lose that.

So? Why should the status quo remain the same? Beerus isn't the strongest and it makes no sense for Goku to remain in his shadow.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

So? Why should the status quo remain the same? Beerus isn't the strongest and it makes no sense for Goku to remain in his shadow.

If Goku were to ever surpass Beerus, they may as well just kill him off the show.

 

[Slaythe]

Hmm. https://twitter.com/toshio916/status/879039596775981056

That guy is even worse than me

edit :

Which ToP episode did Toshio write, is it the next one ?

 

[HeroR]

If Goku were to ever surpass Beerus, they may as well just kill him off the show.

Dragon Ball is all about change. That is like saying Goku becoming a Super Saiyan and beating the strongest in the universe 'killed the show'. Or Goku surpassing Roshi in Dragon Ball, the former strongest on Earth. Or how about him beatin the devil twice.

 

[ArchedThunder]

That guy is even worse than me

edit :

Which ToP episode did Toshio write, is it the next one ?

99 is his next episode, but he could mean any episode in the next 5 or so months.

 

[I-hate-u]

Where the da Piccolo fans at?

 

[Slaythe]

99 is his next episode, but he could mean any episode in the next 5 or so months.

I know, I was trying to figure out how many episodes 17 is guaranteed not to be taken out lmao.

 

[Fj0823]

Can we just post the gif were Trunks quickly goes from SSJ2 to Ikari?

That should end this "debate"

 

[Skeeter49]

Ikari isn't a new form now? Guess SSJ2 isn't a new form either, no one called it one until the Buu arc.

 

[Slaythe]

Ikari isn't a new form now? Guess SSJ2 isn't a new form either, no one called it one until the Buu arc.

Super saiyan 2 should have never been a new form.

It should have been a mastered SSJ form.

It makes SSJ1 completely obsolete. Or vice versa depending on who's writing.

 

[roflwaffles]

uh cause it would destroy his entire dynamic with Goku and the cast, where he stands in relation to the angels and other GoDs is irrelevant. Part what makes Beerus work so well is the interplay with how he's able to go back and forth between slapstick comedy while also reminding you he's a force of nature that's the big boss round these parts. Knowing that when push comes to shove and he could wipe Goku out easily is what gives it teeth. Goku being stronger than him destroys that, Beerus becomes a joke and "just another person"(far more than he already is) he wont be able to back up anything anymore.

Look at that great scene when Beerus was about to kill Goku for trying to contact Zeno, it would have been a joke if we knew Goku could actually beat him, that's the type of relationship they've fostered and I don't want to lose that.

Agreed

 

[NandoGip]

It's not an official new Super Saiyan form. We wouldn't even have the name Ikari if it wasn't for Dragon Ball Heroes.

It's just another generic rage boost just like the 5000 before.

How can this be such a difficult concept. I just presented evidence that points to an obvious conclusion.

I'm not even injecting my own assumptions or predictions on why they would do this. My guess is that the anime got the go ahead to introduce a new form, but after the fact they changed their mind.

The timeline:

-Trunks goes rage mode in the anime

-DBH comes out with a card

-Eveerryyyyything else comes out with Trunks, Trunks SSJ, Genki Dama Sword, etc. But no SSJ Ikari

-Merch gets released with things like: Kale SSJ Berserker, Jiren with his unrevealed metal form, etc. STILL no SSJ Ikari

-XV2 cut scene only gives Trunks the blue aura and hair because he absorbed energy from everyone else like the spirit bomb (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buIlvWqd2iU)

-Etc.

It's clear that they are intentionally ignoring it. Why would they do this? They already have Halo Freeza everywhere, they are constantly pushing merch and game tie-ins left and right.

To repeat one more time: It's not an official form on the same line as SSJ1-4, God, Blue/GSS

 

[Kilrogg]

No one forced Toriyama to continue. He kept writing Dragon Ball until he got tired to if.

Pressure. Yeah, of course he wasn't forced to continue. But get enough people begging you and reminding you how many people's jobs depend on your social phenomenon of a manga continuing, and you'll cave. I know I'd feel pretty bad and might not be able to say no before a while.

 

[ArchedThunder]

It's not an official new Super Saiyan form. We wouldn't even have the name Ikari if it wasn't for Dragon Ball Heroes.

So what if the name first came from Heroes?

It's just another generic rage boost just like the 5000 before.

No, it's not, it is explicitly a new form. They can't just turn rage boosts on and off like Trunks can with Ikari.

How can this be such a difficult concept. I just presented evidence that points to an obvious conclusion.

I'm not even injecting my own assumptions or predictions on why they would do this. My guess is that the anime got the go ahead to introduce a new form, but after the fact they changed their mind.

No, you are literally injecting your own very off base assumptions and you have zero evidence.

The timeline:

-Trunks goes rage mode in the anime

-DBH comes out with a card

-Eveerryyyyything else comes out with Trunks, Trunks SSJ, Genki Dama Sword, etc. But no SSJ Ikari

No, no, no. All of the stuff without the Ikari name was introduced BEFORE the Heroes cards.

-Merch gets released with things like: Kale SSJ Berserker, Jiren with his unrevealed metal form, etc. STILL no SSJ Ikari

No? There are two Ikari figures that have been announced.

-XV2 cut scene only gives Trunks the blue aura and hair because he absorbed energy from everyone else like the spirit bomb (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buIlvWqd2iU)

No, he has the hair from the beginning of the cutscene. The blue you're talking about isn't the Ikari aura, it's the light from the sword of hope, just like in the show.

It's clear that they are intentionally ignoring it. Why would they do this? They already have Halo Freeza everywhere, they are constantly pushing merch and game tie-ins left and right.

Except they aren't ignoring it, Ikari shows up in Dokkan, Heroes, XV2, multiple non-figure merch items and has two figures coming up.

To repeat one more time: It's not an official form on the same line as SSJ1-4, God, Blue/GSS

To repeat, you are completely wrong.

 

[HeroR]

Pressure. Yeah, of course he wasn't forced to continue. But get enough people begging you and reminding you how many people's jobs depend on your social phenomenon of a manga continuing, and you'll cave. I know I'd feel pretty bad and might not be able to say no before a while.

That's for any manga writer who has a popular work. And there's nothing proving the Toriyama was pressure to keep going. When he was ready to end it, he did with little notice.

 

[Slaythe]

Oh my God the voice acting . . .

 

[L Thammy]

Toriyama could have cared waaaaaaay less than he did. He could have gotten more assistants to do his work (there's at least one point where he says he only lets them do the ink). He could have just approved all the movie designs that went his way instead of redoing them. He could have not rewritten the Battle of Gods script. He also complains about details that a lot of us might not notice, like the anime making Goku's gi too red so it no longer invokes Shaolin robes.

He's lazy and doesn't plan things out, yes, but not as much as some people think, and I don't think that's his sole motivation. He's also mentioned that the reason he got into the industry in the first place was competitiveness. His first manga was something he submitted to a Shueisha manga contest and it sucked; he said that he wouldn't have pursued it further if he won and got the prize. He continued because he thought he could do better than he did.

 

[NandoGip]

So what if the name first came from Heroes?


No, it's not, it is explicitly a new form. They can't just turn rage boosts on and off like Trunks can with Ikari.


No, you are literally injecting your own very off base assumptions and you have zero evidence.


No, no, no. All of the stuff without the Ikari name was introduced BEFORE the Heroes cards.
No? There are two Ikari figures that have been announced.



No, he has the hair from the beginning of the cutscene. The blue you're talking about isn't the Ikari aura, it's the light from the sword of hope, just like in the show.


Except they aren't ignoring it, Ikari shows up in Dokkan, Heroes, XV2, multiple non-figure merch items and has two figures coming up.


To repeat, you are completely wrong.

Reading this is insane to me

The word Ikari doesn't appear anywhere you mentioned

Everything I provided was objective

Do you need a written letter from Akira Toriyama?

 

[Alienous]

I don't mind Zamasu's dub voice ... but maybe I'm lying to myself because I want Marsters to redeem his influence on Dragon Ball after Evolution.

He should've been Hit though.

 

[L Thammy]

If Goku shaves his ass in the anime, Goku (Shaven Ass Super Saiyan) will appear in at least one video game. Fucking everything is official in some capacity. Assume official unless told otherwise.

 

[Kilrogg]

That's for any manga writer who has a popular work. And there's nothing proving the Toriyama was pressure to keep going. When he was ready to end it, he did with little notice.

I'd give you a link to a video I watched just yesterday, but it's in French with no subtitles. Basically, he stopped with little notice, as you pointed out, precisely because, that time, he really couldn't do it anymore. That's why there's even an apology message on the very last page of the last chapter. Why do you think he's barely involved in either the Dragon Ball Super manga or anime?

Just because you keep going for a while doesn't mean you're doing 100% out of a willingness to continue. If you have a sense of duty and a keen conscience of the impact of your actions on others, and/or you're inclined to bow down to pressure, that might be enough to keep you going for years until you finally can't do it anymore.

 

[Slaythe]

How the fuck does he fit his ear in this

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Hmm. https://twitter.com/toshio916/status/879039596775981056

Yamcha of the desert?

 

[HeroR]

I'd give you a link to a video I watched just yesterday, but it's in French with no subtitles. Basically, he stopped with little notice, as you pointed out, precisely because, that time, he really couldn't do it anymore. That's why there's even an apology message on the very last page of the last chapter. Why do you think he's barely involved in either the Dragon Ball Super manga or anime?

Just because you keep going for a while doesn't mean you're doing 100% out of a willingness to continue. If you have a sense of duty and a keen conscience of the impact of your actions on others, and/or you're inclined to bow down to pressure, that might be enough to keep you going for years until you finally can't do it anymore.

Barely involved? He writes the outline, checks the storyboard for both the anime and manga, makes suggesting, redraws parts of the manga, and do character designs. He's very much involved with Super.

 

[RocknRola]

How the fuck does he fit his ear in this

Dodoria was actually made of Jell-O.

 

[Slaythe]

I'd give you a link to a video I watched just yesterday, but it's in French with no subtitles. Basically, he stopped with little notice, as you pointed out, precisely because, that time, he really couldn't do it anymore. That's why there's even an apology message on the very last page of the last chapter. Why do you think he's barely involved in either the Dragon Ball Super manga or anime?

Just because you keep going for a while doesn't mean you're doing 100% out of a willingness to continue. If you have a sense of duty and a keen conscience of the impact of your actions on others, and/or you're inclined to bow down to pressure, that might be enough to keep you going for years until you finally can't do it anymore.

Feel free to link that video.

And also, you have virtually no idea what his involvement in Super is. The writers and producers mentioned he is quite involved and they have often commented on the back and forth nature of the creation of DBSuper.

 

[Waldini]

So.
The arc begins.

What are the chances of a new form? Goku with white hair?

 

[A Pretty Panda]

"Well it's not named so I'm ignoring it"

wut

 

[L Thammy]

You know that
1. Toriyama still does manga,
2. he actually tried going back to the hardcore Weekly Shonen Jump schedule completely of his own volition on one of his post-Dragonball manga

right? He doesn't lack affection for his work. He just hates actually doing the work.

If I recall, he's said in another interview that he wished that he had a machine that took his story ideas and pumped out a finished manga. What arrangement does Toriyama have now?