thebaroness
Member
Hey, anything to drive up sales for Dragon's Crown!
I want it, and more games like it, badly!
I want it, and more games like it, badly!
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Dragon's Crown (Vanillaware PS3/PSV) Sorceress Trailer
- Thread starter Takao
- Start date
Like I said in the closed thread, it's more amazing that you have plenty of people imposing modern ideals and values on art that's not inspired by anything modern.
That's a pretty big taboo when it comes to criticizing any form of art, cultures, etc. etc.
nailbombxx
Member
The game was rated for suggestive themes and partial nudity. I don't think there's much more to it than that. Hyper-sexualization is a bit of an exaggeration.
JordanN
Banned
Woah, my respect for Vanillaware went up by x1000.
Schobeleth
Member
She has S&M style finishers where she's making women (angels?) orgasm to death until they explode.
Karsticles
Member
Are you thinking about doing a cosplay of one of the DC characters?
Oh man, amazing avatar change. It even looks suggestive without knowing the context. Mr. Dwarf has a "Why hello there..." look in that wink.
Indeed. Bayonetta is super-sexual.
The notion that the specific, conscious inspiration of artists frees them from contextual art criticism is strange. As an extreme example, if an artist released work nowadays where black people were all depicted as eating watermelon and fried chicken because the artist *just happened to love those foods*, it would not insulate the art from the criticism that it reinforced racist stereotypes. I'm not saying that this instance is anywhere near the severity of my example, but it illustrates the basic point.
nailbombxx
Member
Nice! I was able to recognize most of these homages without seeing this article. Dismissing this game's art style because of tits seems based in ignorance after seeing this.
That's probably one of the most extreme examples and I would still say it would fall under "suggestive themes". Its entertaining though.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Yeah, I thought this was really interesting. If nothing else, you can't argue the game doesn't have its share of strong thematic references and perfectly defensible design influences.
I'm already dreading the OT. I actually avoided the Skullgirls OT completely because of the direction the discussion went. I rather every thread be full of multiple facets of discussion than be a circle-jerk or shitfest, but that OT really lost me.
I don't know how to feel honestly, I don't think there's necessarily a correlation between making a game that's more inclusive and making a game that's more accessible. A good, solid, even deep game could be here regardless of the character designs, and that's all I'm really concerned about. Does that mean I'm turning a blind eye to a real problem? I don't know, I just don't find exaggerated stylized characters offensive, especially if given relevant context.
If the game had a bunch of Nazi characters as the good guys, I'd probably be searching desperately for the context, but even with it I still don't think I'd play it - I can only think along these lines when I try to understand how someone must feel if they find these characters too off-putting to enjoy the game.
That's quite amazing.
I'm not saying it doesn't free them from contextual criticism because context is exactly what I think "critics" of Dragon's Crown art need to apply. But applying modern context to art that isn't modern or isn't inspired by anything modern is going to give you faulty conclusions about the art as well as the artist. For example, wrong context could lead someone to the conclusion that DC's artists are immature 14 year-olds boys.
Schobeleth
Member
Yeah I really, really love dwarves and have recently gotten the biggest boner for dwarven fiction and stuff. I've always been a fan of the Tolkien stuff, but my love for dwarves has grown in recent years. This avatar, art and game have just become the icing on the cake for me.
I think Bayonetta only got away with the hyper-sexualization because she was still a bit modest when it came to proportions. Give her some H cups in that skin tight hair suit and the internet would have lost its collective mind. I know there's a lot of fan art out there where she is endowed like that, but that doesn't count
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love that game and find the crazy sexualization of Bayonetta hilarious and outright silly at times.Karsticles
Member
Explain your love of dwarves to me. I had a high school friend who was obsesses with them, and I just never got it. I tried asking him, but he was the sort of person to claim up whenever he was inquired with about something personal (always freaked out about anything sexual, too).
A lot of women love Bayonetta, too. It would be interesting to poll people and see how popular she is among both sexes.I think Bayonetta only got away with the hyper-sexualization because she was still a bit modest when it came to proportions. Give her some H cups in that skin tight hair suit and the internet would have lost its collective mind. I know there's a lot of fan art out there where she is endowed like that, but that doesn't count
nailbombxx
Member
I agree, it can be a bit outrageous but I don't think its supposed to be taken seriously. Its a video game. Its entertainment.I think Bayonetta only got away with the hyper-sexualization because she was still a bit modest when it came to proportions. Give her some H cups in that skin tight hair suit and the internet would have lost its collective mind. I know there's a lot of fan art out there where she is endowed like that, but that doesn't count
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Yeah I really, really love dwarves and have recently gotten the biggest boner for dwarven fiction and stuff. I've always been a fan of the Tolkien stuff, but my love for dwarves has grown in recent years. This avatar, art and game have just become the icing on the cake for me.
I think Bayonetta only got away with the hyper-sexualization because she was still a bit modest when it came to proportions. Give her some H cups in that skin tight hair suit and the internet would have lost its collective mind. I know there's a lot of fan art out there where she is endowed like that, but that doesn't count
.......
her body proportion is absurd at best. Did you see the length of her leg? But still, I'm amazed that some people give bayonetta a go and make all the fuss about this game's female proportion.
Those anti breasts people... they have no life.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think Bayonetta only got away with the hyper-sexualization because she was still a bit modest when it came to proportions. Give her some H cups in that skin tight hair suit and the internet would have lost its collective mind. I know there's a lot of fan art out there where she is endowed like that, but that doesn't count
There's been some pretty good and darn convincing articles written on how Bayonetta is designed and written front to back as a female blowing apart a male patriarchy. Both literally and figuratively. The bit about her body proportions - because she is designed after exaggerated sketches of elegant fashion model figures which do not emphasize details that appeal to men in "raunch culture". She is at her most powerful and destructive when she is naked (hair summons), etc. The traps and torture devices she uses to destroy angels are the devices that were used to torture women as witches in the past - and so on.
Also probably significant that the creatures she most often taunts in a sexualized manner are basically neutered - the angels are mostly asexual monsters hidden behind fake masks (which tend to get ripped off, revealing their nature).
Omegasquash
Member
My wife will likely play the Sorceress, and I'll likely play the Dwarf. It'll be fun. I see what's being said about the characters being hypersexualized, but when in the name of whatever you want to name have things NOT been hypersexualized?
Singling out Dragon's Crown doesn't seem fair, given what we're used to seeing. So the females are scantily clad...where was the hate for Code of Princess?
Singling out Dragon's Crown doesn't seem fair, given what we're used to seeing. So the females are scantily clad...where was the hate for Code of Princess?
nailbombxx
Member
Haha, I'm pretty sure he was referring to her chest and bottom. Those are relatively realistic, but she is way too tall, etc. It would look a lot better if she was an animated character instead of a 3D model honestly.
It was mostly pointing and laughing. I understood, the American cover was awful compared to the original:
Too much jiggle ?
nailbombxx
Member
The Japanese box art for Code of Princess is so godlike.
cluxdeluxe
Banned
w
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
spandexmonkey
Banned
That homage link is awesome, didn't realize how much stuff was in the trailer.
I don't think I'll ever meet my wife's expectations if she played Dragon's Crown:
How is a man supposed to match that! Not even Arnold in his prime had a chest like this guy!
I don't think I'll ever meet my wife's expectations if she played Dragon's Crown:
How is a man supposed to match that! Not even Arnold in his prime had a chest like this guy!
Why did I give them a hit for this?
Sorry Jason, both articles you wrote regarding Dragon's Crown are shit. You don't get to attack Dragon's Crown's art direction on the merits that you're pinning misogyny, harassment and exploitation of women to it. All the real world examples you cite happened before Dragon's Crown was released. Not even that but just because someone who has played video games commits some criminal or asshole act doesn't mean they learned their behavior from some game having sexual themes or suggestions. But it's okay, you can have your opinion on pointing out the sorceress or amazon in Dragon's Crown but have your website be fair and start criticizing every game that has women being overly sexual. Did Kotaku make a big stink about EDI having a sex-bot body in Mass Effect 3 with full fledged camel toe? In Arkham City did you criticize the fact that Catwoman is dressed up in a skin tight suit while the zipper is down the front and her cleavage is spilling out? Did you bring up why Lara Croft in the new Tomb Raider goes through the entire game in nothing but a tight tank top despite the harsh weather and environment of the island where any normal person would've taken a jacket from a body and put it on?
Just a male power fantasy obviously. Totally innocuous.
Risk Breaker
Member
Man, seeing as how curvy (even if extremely) women are seen as sexism and that idea for a Zelda game with Zelda as the protagonist where she looked like a boy, I'm starting to think that some would only be happy with women being boys with a vagina.
Then they'll find something else to complain about, anyway.
*clap*
Then they'll find something else to complain about, anyway.
*clap*
Schobeleth
Member
Yeah I think it's only certain angles and such that show how tiny her head really is in comparison to the rest of her body. I'm fine with it, I love her character design, but ultimately I think this whole ordeal boils down to if you like the designs themselves or not, not if they're hyper sexualized.
Yeah Code of Princess had a pretty shameless OT, the original name was like Titties, Bitties and Asses or something like that right? The character designs themselves were pretty skimpy too, IIRC.
Yeah the key thing is that her T & A are not ridiculously proportioned, it's her legs and torso. Her torso is like wayyyyyy too long for it to be considered proportionate, but that's not what incites cries of sexism, objectification and misogyny - big boobs and big butts do that.
Whether the angels are sexless or not doesn't hide the fact that most of them moan as if they're climaxing from a crazy head spinning orgasm. I think they designed her great in that they managed to create a hyper sexualized character without giant knockers, butt cheeks or hips.
nailbombxx
Member
Well theres only one type of angel in Bayonetta that even remotely resembles a woman and thats because they are shape shifters. I never thought they were dying from orgasms from that toy horse torture attack, lol.
ReeseHoward
Banned
Will it have Crossbuy?
ReeseHoward
Banned
Vita version it is, then.
radios shipping overview
Member
I can't wait for gaming-site content farms to exhaust readers' ten-minute attention span making an example out of this game, so that the rest of us can enjoy it in peace.
Find a more worthy target for projecting your agenda.
Find a more worthy target for projecting your agenda.
By that point I imagine the furor will have moved on to Killer is Dead's "Gigolo mode"
Lord Ghirahim
Member
Let's hope so, the game needs some publicity.
SolidSnakex
Member
Eurogamer already asked Suda about it
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-the-strange-world-of-suda-51s-killer-is-dead
I didn't really see too many sites cover that indepth. I think he brings up a good point. I'm not sure why sexuality in games is treated as such an off limit things by some.
It's on Gamaustra now: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/Christia...rge_Kamitani_and_being_stupid_on_Facebook.php
Apparently, Kamitani is so petty as to take the time out of his day to do a nice painting of burly dwarves just out of spite.
Apparently, Kamitani is so petty as to take the time out of his day to do a nice painting of burly dwarves just out of spite.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
So Nutt felt it was worth his time to compose a fairly lengthy scathing of Kamitani, but couldn't be bothered to go look at the Kotaku post that started the entire thing.
Hmm...
The picture is pretty well-drawn so I really don't get Christian's point. He seems to be projecting a little too much; I don't think anyone finds it "disgusting", for starters.
The humor argument is horrendous. It's an all too popular position that is totally devoid of how things actually work. I'm on my phone but the idea of easy or lazy jokes is nonsense. These are the last people on Earth to comment on comedy as it fundamentally undermines their seriousness.
thebaroness
Member
Whoa, this guy really went off the deep end.
SolidSnakex
Member
Seeing the date on that page reminds me of how long we've been waiting for this game. I can't believe that it's been that long.
thebaroness
Member
Indeed, I've been excited since...oh 2010?
Either way, I think the discussion is going from silly, to being not so silly. Either way it is generation discussion about the game, that I can only see as being good for Dragon's Crown. Since in the 2+ years I've been waiting for it, there hasn't been much awareness.