Knux-Future
Banned
when are we gonna get some of that Amazon, yo?
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Dragon's Crown (Vanillaware PS3/PSV) Sorceress Trailer
- Thread starter Takao
- Start date
Knux-Future
Banned
a lot of sunglasses and bit lower lips.
First two pages sure, but what happens when JASON SCHREIER gets offended again?
SolidSnakex
Member
It was originally unveiled in the Vita sizzle reel at E3 2011. But after that it basically vanished due to Ignition going under. It initially received positive attention for its art and inspired a lot fanart, but that kind of died off once the game disappeared. The art is now drawing more negative attention, but it's still attention which is good for such a niche game (as you mentioned).
It should be a female character in the update for this Friday. So it'll be the Elf or the Amazon.
thebaroness
Member
I would also like to say that Schreier come across as a tool trying to white knight what makes women uncomfortable without knowing what really makes women uncomfortable. And it's not just characters with large breasts. It usually is when you dilute the female role to just an accessory that has no purpose or personality or power. Almost all my female gamer friends are looking forward to the game as well, we're excited for it. Because Vanillaware makes beautiful and fun games.
I am a woman, and I love how the Sorceress looks, I love how the whole game looks. I love Kamitani's style across all their games. I loved how Kongiku looked in Muramasa. I love how Queen Muse looks in Grand Knight's History. I love Vanillaware's art.
Of course we are all just people too, and women all have different opinions. Some might not like it, but don't put words in all our mouth saying it's embarrassing to play. I'm looking forward to playing Dragon's Crown, ANYWHERE. Train, family events, in my own bathroom. I don't give a shit.
I am a woman, and I love how the Sorceress looks, I love how the whole game looks. I love Kamitani's style across all their games. I loved how Kongiku looked in Muramasa. I love how Queen Muse looks in Grand Knight's History. I love Vanillaware's art.
Of course we are all just people too, and women all have different opinions. Some might not like it, but don't put words in all our mouth saying it's embarrassing to play. I'm looking forward to playing Dragon's Crown, ANYWHERE. Train, family events, in my own bathroom. I don't give a shit.
It's kind of a sad irony that because there's so few female gamers (discounting social stuff), it's easy for opposing viewpoints like this to get drowned out by all the noise from the "white knights".
thebaroness
Member
Indeed! It's like all these guys arguing saying, "This is so offensive to women! It offends me! I'm embarrassed by it!"
And we're over here like, "Not really...it looks cool!"
I could go on by how much more offended by Samus' Zero Suit I am because it goes against her character, by that's unrelated nonsense and I'm not going to derail anything.
So in summary, if you are a Man, and large breasted characters offend and embarrass you, that's fine. However don't say that is offends everyone with a vagina.
TheSpoiler
Member
Well said. In fact, it made me collect my thoughts a bit.
I'm tired of people trying to be a mouthpiece for a group of people they may or may not represent.
It becomes a battle generalizing and bossing, with the latter ending with "hey, you think this" rather than trying to come to consensus or opening up a forum for the discussion.
Schobeleth
Member
Preach, THANK YOU! It's this new form of games journalism where (mostly men) are trying to speak for everyone as if it's truth. I'm really tired of it, especially how Dragon's Crown is getting a lot of hate because it's furthering their agenda.
Father_Brain
Banned
I fail to see how, but okay.
Given the context, the accompanying caption, and and the content of the image (why multiple dwarfs as opposed to just one), I find it very hard to believe that Kamitani's intent wasn't to question Schreier's sexuality as an insult.
Are you speaking for just yourself or for all Asians?
This is an important distinction.
Thought you looked familiar! Awesome Sorceress cosplay. I remember seeing that on the Dragon's Crown FB page long ago.
(No, my avatar isn't me)
ReeseHoward
Banned
It's ultra-masculine, the polar opposite of the Sorceress' ultra-feminine design.
Well, I found someone attempting to rationalize how offensive something is, with how offensive he'd like to be in order to support how offended he feels, to be akin to 'going off the deep end'. But I guess that's up to interpretation. Similar to most things. Like a piece of art and some bad English.
TheSpoiler
Member
Well said. In fact, it made me collect my thoughts a bit.
I'm tired of people trying to be a mouthpiece for a group of people they may or may not represent.
It becomes a battle generalizing and bossing, with the latter ending with "hey, you think this" rather than trying to come to consensus or opening up a forum for the discussion.
hey friend
nailbombxx
Member
Finally, the voice of reason.
Which we could just preface every related thread with this.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
It's not anyone's job to say what is embarrassing about a game - let's just call it, for all intents and purposes, like a piece of art. You don't say "you shouldn't make this art, it makes modern art look bad" - you need to accept it all, even the garbage and trash that you yourself might not like, and accept that as a sacrifice that oh, heavens, you shouldn't bother whining about it because it doesn't fit into whatever vision YOU have.
"That's what they wanted it to be, so that's what it is."
"That's what they wanted it to be, so that's what it is."
Reluctant-Hero
Member
The Kotaku author updated today's article with an apology from Katamani.
Strange though, you have to go to the middle of the article to find the update. Why wouldn't the update be published at the top of the article?
Strange though, you have to go to the middle of the article to find the update. Why wouldn't the update be published at the top of the article?
Years of a similar art style and it was fine. Most people noted Velvet's ridiculous outfit, but it was forgiveable and IGN felt Odin Sphere was one of the most artistic games of 2007. Now that Odette's proportions are one of the hero builds (note not the only hero build), he is setting the industry back a decade and his art is terrible. Funnily enough, he expanded the diversity of body types a female hero can have in his games.
But sure. Looking at it from his frame point is too much. I need to look at it from larger standpoint. Evidently including a big breast model massively overshadows the conservatively proportioned model. And going down the order of vileness it seems Sorceress>Amazon (despite the complete lack of clothes) and finally Archer. I'll also note that Anita praises Faith, the slant-eyed, flat-chested, female martial artist is a positive female and it isn't limited to her. Heck everyone gets to use faulty logic and assume Kamitani is the reason that gamers are sexist when Vanillaware's own lack of sales implies his stuff isn't mainstream, I might as well assume a single prominent and EA's 3M sales of Mirror's Edge makes feminism nothing more than racism.
So basically torpedo tits > narrowing definitions of beauty (clearly Archer/Gwen builds are the only female builds that Kamitani can get away with) > blatant racism (Asian have slant eyes, Asians are martial artists, Asian women have the bodies of 12 year old boys) on the scale of vileness?
Awesome on Jason S. to quickly update it. I'm used to updates being near to the bottom to reflect the chronological nature of the events.
But sure. Looking at it from his frame point is too much. I need to look at it from larger standpoint. Evidently including a big breast model massively overshadows the conservatively proportioned model. And going down the order of vileness it seems Sorceress>Amazon (despite the complete lack of clothes) and finally Archer. I'll also note that Anita praises Faith, the slant-eyed, flat-chested, female martial artist is a positive female and it isn't limited to her. Heck everyone gets to use faulty logic and assume Kamitani is the reason that gamers are sexist when Vanillaware's own lack of sales implies his stuff isn't mainstream, I might as well assume a single prominent and EA's 3M sales of Mirror's Edge makes feminism nothing more than racism.
So basically torpedo tits > narrowing definitions of beauty (clearly Archer/Gwen builds are the only female builds that Kamitani can get away with) > blatant racism (Asian have slant eyes, Asians are martial artists, Asian women have the bodies of 12 year old boys) on the scale of vileness?
Awesome on Jason S. to quickly update it. I'm used to updates being near to the bottom to reflect the chronological nature of the events.
nailbombxx
Member
Now we need an apology from Schreier who started this foolishness in the first place.
Man, Kamitani is a bro.
He actually did it in the original article where he elaborated on why he found the designs problematic.
Yep. Jason lost a lot of respect from me over this.
Karsticles
Member
I really like it, but I think (if possible) the hat should be bigger. I would say that, as a crude metric, the Sorceress' hat looks about two headlengths wide on each side of her head, while yours looks to be about one. I feel like her hat really pulls the costume together - something about it's massive, careless shape completes her general attitude.
Question: how do you dye your hair so much without destroying it?
There was an incredible outburst of art, and then...kerplunk. I would really like to see VanillaWare get a breakthrough game, and I think this has the potential to be it.
Edit: It's unfortunate that Kamitani apologized. I really am tired of people apologizing for ribbing each other. A little trash talk is healthy.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I always feel pretty moribund when a great developer or artist has to tow a company line and apologise to a petulant game journalist or whatever. Kamitani is a bigger guy I guess, but I would have gone for a "To the journalist that accused me of being a 14-year old boy, I apologise for..." apology technique.
nailbombxx
Member
True, but while saying "I still stand by what I said".
Moral Panic
Member
Good thing that he apologized. Replying to criticism (even if it was very poorly worded) with "lol ur gay" was very poor form.
Personally I am not "embarrassed" by the character designs I just don't like them, I think they are negative and objectionable. I don't like it and I am gonna complain about it everywhere I see it.
If I don't argue for the things I like and against the things I don't like then who is going to do it for me?
Personally I am not "embarrassed" by the character designs I just don't like them, I think they are negative and objectionable. I don't like it and I am gonna complain about it everywhere I see it.
If I don't argue for the things I like and against the things I don't like then who is going to do it for me?
Schreier, apparently.
Arguing for all women everywhere, whether they want him to or not.
Karsticles
Member
A fitting name, you have.
So do I. Preorder numbers were insane when it first hit Amazon in late 2011, when Ignition was still publishing. There was a brief period where it was outselling preorders for Battlefield 3 and Uncharted 3, according to Amazon's "Best Sellers in Video Games" rankings.
Moral Panic
Member
Why so bitter? I don't see anywhere in Schreier's article where he claims he is talking for all women. I find his last paragraph to be quite poignant.
?
Apparently it's fine to assume Kamitani's response was a homophobic jibe, but that piercing insight is nowhere to be found when it comes to Schreier's own self appointment as the champion of "so many women" in the gaming industry.
I'm bitter because Kamitani should not have had to apologize to someone trolling for hits like Schreier. He is an actual artist. If you read this article, you'll see that Dragon's Crown's art pays homage to a wide variety of historical figures and artistic pieces. The designs are simply Kamitani's own tribute to the heritage of fantasy.
But Schreier cannot understand that, and instead just went ahead and called Kamitani a 14 year old. And you're calling him poignant?
nailbombxx
Member
When I saw the original Kotaku article I seriously thought it was satire or some kind of joke. I wouldn't be surprised if Kamitani thought the same.
nailbombxx
Member
But... Men don't get sexually harassed at PAX East.
Devolution
Member
It's the same shit that happened with Bayo. These are obvious over the top characters with a theme in my mind that we're supposed to be offended by but if they're strong adept characters I frankly couldn't give a shit. There are much better examples of sexual objectification and flat ass weak characters but these journalists are stuck on sensationalist garbage pointing the finger at these Japanese RPGs.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I thought Sorceress was the only character.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I have a hard time believing that Kamitani's intent was to accuse the gaming journalist guy of being a homosexual. Even if he was, I don't think he was doing it for comedic purposes.
Just not the impression I got from reading that. It was more of a, "you don't like the massive tits? well about some rippling muscles? we've got those, too!" type of thing based off how I read it.
Just not the impression I got from reading that. It was more of a, "you don't like the massive tits? well about some rippling muscles? we've got those, too!" type of thing based off how I read it.
Gutsy Frog
Banned
What I'm taking away from this is that such games should simply not exist. That there is absolutely no place in which people who like this stuff should be given this sort of material, at all. Of course Jason Schreier said that he 'doesn't thing such art does not have the right to exist', but he did talk about how it makes women uncomfortable and how it is 'hurting gaming', so that's practically the exact same thing: the world would be a better place if such harmful material did not exist.
The ironic part about this backlash over this guy making a game for his otaku niche is that these are likely the very same people who complain about developers 'pandering to the masses'. Because, see, developers SHOULD make highly personal games... but only when Kotaku likes the results. Otherwise it's harmful.
How about releasing more games where the male cast is designed to be attractive to WOMEN? Create more actual female-aimed equivalents to such games. You know that DS game where you basically massage anime guys? MAKE MORE STUFF LIKE THAT. But these guys never propose this, because this is not about equality and doing your best to make sure everyone feels welcome in gaming - it's a bunch of clueless men who decided that they want to be 'feminists' as a fun online group activity, and who believe that feminism means 'feeling guilty about being sexually attracted to women'. Tumblr social justice is their only exposure to feminism (and even then, *there are even Tumblr social justice people who think this stuff is silly*).
The ironic part about this backlash over this guy making a game for his otaku niche is that these are likely the very same people who complain about developers 'pandering to the masses'. Because, see, developers SHOULD make highly personal games... but only when Kotaku likes the results. Otherwise it's harmful.
How about releasing more games where the male cast is designed to be attractive to WOMEN? Create more actual female-aimed equivalents to such games. You know that DS game where you basically massage anime guys? MAKE MORE STUFF LIKE THAT. But these guys never propose this, because this is not about equality and doing your best to make sure everyone feels welcome in gaming - it's a bunch of clueless men who decided that they want to be 'feminists' as a fun online group activity, and who believe that feminism means 'feeling guilty about being sexually attracted to women'. Tumblr social justice is their only exposure to feminism (and even then, *there are even Tumblr social justice people who think this stuff is silly*).