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[Monocle]

Lol. Politics?! It's spelled religion.

Politics is the standard euphemism for religion when someone with a stake in the matter doesn't want to admit that religion does in fact directly encourage repulsive things.

 

[Septimius]

The whole extradition thing is unfortunate. Norway should still try to fight for one of its citizens. These backwards ass countries need to join the rest of us in the 21st century.

The thing is, Norway's been in this situation before. Moland and French. As a country that fights for its laws, and as a part of an international community, we can't go "sorry, your laws are STUPID, so we're just ignoring them". It sucks, but Norway can't really do something about it.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

dubai has no oil mate.

UAE*

 

[CornBurrito]

It really is kind of amazing how people over in Dubai can't seem to wrap their heads around what the problem is with jailing rape victims for having sex outside marriage.

 

[JDSN]

of course I have no problem with that. tourism is very important to Dubai so when stuff like this happens it really hurts the economy and reputation.

for some of us, this is home now and I hate hearing these stories as even if there is more to it, it's disgusting and not right. there are many lovely people and practices here but when something like this happens it makes the area look so backward.

That's because it is backward.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

dubai has no oil mate.

Aside from the fact that it's built on oil money from the rest of the UAE and nations in the region, oil and natural gas do still make up to 10% of their revenue from what I've read.

 

[raindoc]

since when is it illegal to drink alcohol in Dubai?

 

[Phat Michael]

I hope you express your opposition locally as well, as Edmund Burke said, all that the triumph of evil requires is good men doing nothing.

the thing is these cases are so rare that when they happen it just is huge news as it's always with an expat and their country reports it. so for me it's actually a very safe country to live in. but yes, it's by no means a democracy.

thing is even Emiratis I know would find this kind of thing abhorrent, esp western educated ones.
I hope the laws change soon. dubai is the. out progressive of all the Arab nations but it definitely is not up to par with a majority of the western countries. as it stands, it's a nation which is 42 years old. but yes I hope some laws are revised or relaxed.

 

[Phat Michael]

Aside from the fact that it's built on oil money from the rest of the UAE and nations in the region, oil and natural gas do still make up to 10% of their revenue from what I've read.

Abu Dhabi has the oil. natural gas yes, oil is very very minimal here.

 

[Septimius]

the thing is these cases are so rare that when they happen it just is huge news as it's always with an expat and their country reports it. so for me it's actually a very safe country to live in. but yes, it's by no means a democracy.

Good thing more women don't report rape, then!

thing is even Emiratis I know would find this kind of thing abhorrent, esp western educated ones.
I hope the laws change soon. dubai is the. out progressive of all the Arab nations but it definitely is not up to par with a majority of the western countries. as it stands, it's a nation which is 42 years old. but yes I hope some laws are revised or relaxed.

I'm so happy to hear you hope some day it'll change

 

[Xenon]

If I was Norway I'd send a fleet of private investigators to catch government officials with their mistresses.

 

[hawkshockey11]

So is getting murdered considered dying before god intends?

 

[Meus Renaissance]

These stories often come up but the articles don't provide much context as to how these decisions are made.

Whilst there are references to rape and the punishment of rapists in Islamic literature, I don't believe there there is mentioning of how to determine guilt in cases where this is no confession. There is however instructions on how to determine guilt when it comes to pre-marital sex; the need for four witnesses. Why such a large requirement? The sentence would be death by stoning if found guilty, so the logic is, whilst the sentence is harsh, the often unattainable four witnesses is a form of leniency. And so many Islamic scholars inadvertently place rape in the same category as pre-marital sex because of the decision to use the standard for the latter to determine the former. But whilst sex involving married individuals are often kept secret, how is a rape victim meant to prove their case? It was a topic that was coming up in articles and then I found this, written by the former Chief Justice of a Shariah supereme court in Pakistan. Here is a thorough account as to how they managed to address the loophole.

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/prow2006.htm

The legal implications of the ‘Protection of Women Bill’ which was recently passed by the National Assembly of Pakistan can only be known to the people who are well-versed with the intricacies of the legal system. But the picture being painted is that the bill is going to provide a remedy to those women who are facing severe oppression and hardships due to the Hudood Ordinance, and that it will also provide a great relief to countless women. It is also being claimed that the bill does not violate the injunctions of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Let us take a serious and realistic look at the basic (fundamental) points mentioned in this bill, and observe how much they correspond with the claims being made. If we study the bill we would arrive at the conclusion that the bill contains only two substantive points:

Firstly, the punishment for rape (zina bil jabar) as ordained by the Quran and Sunnah, known as the Hadd, has been completely abolished in this bill. As such, a person who has committed rape cannot be given the punishment according to Shariah law and instead will receive a ta’azeeri punishment according to the Pakistan Penal Code(anything below hadd).

Secondly, the crime declared liable for ta’azeeri punishment in the Hudood Ordinance has been downgraded and declared merely ‘lewdness’, thereby reducing the severity of its punishment. Moreover, proving it has been made nearly impossible.

To abolish the punishment of rape (hadd) is a clear violation of the injunctions given in the Qur'an and Sunnah. However, it is being claimed that the punishment ordained by the Quran and Sunnah is only applicable when both the man and woman commit adultery with mutual consent; and that in the case of rape, the Qur'an and Sunnah have not prescribed any punishment. Let us first examine the extent to which this claim is correct:

1) The Holy Quran prescribes the punishment of adultery in Surah Noor as follows:

The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. (24:2)

In this injunction the word zina is absolute, including both zina bil-raza (adultery) and zina bil jabar (rape). In fact, it is common sense that rape is a more serious offense than what is done with free will (i.e. adultery). Thus, as this is the punishment prescribed for adultery with free will, the punishment for rape would be even more severe.

This injunction is inclusive of the woman who commits adultery, yet further along in the same surah (Noor) those woman who have been raped are exempted from any punishment. Therefore the Holy Quran says:

‘And if one force them (i.e. those women), then, (unto them) after their compulsion, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.’ (24:33)

From this becomes clear that if any woman is forced to commit Zina, then she cannot be punished for this. Rather, only the one who has transgressed is to suffer the prescribed punishment (Hadd) as has been mentioned in Surah Noor, Ayat 2 (24:2).

2. The stated Hadd of 100 stripes is to be inflicted on an unmarried offender. From the Sunnah Mutawatar it is further proven that a married person is to suffer Rajm, i.e., lapidating in the instance of his committing Zina. The Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam did, and in this case did not differentiate between Zina bil Jabr (rape) and Zina bir-Radha (adultery with mutual consent).

Sayyidina Wail bin Hajr radiallahu anhu narrated that during the days of Allah’s Messenger sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, a woman had gone out to offer the prayer. On the way a man overcame and raped her. The woman cried for help and the man subsequently ran away. Thereafter the man admitted that he had raped the woman. The Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam then inflicted the Hadd only upon the man, and not on the woman.

Imam Tirmidhi related this Hadith in his Jami with two different chains of transmission, and he declared the second chain of transmission as reliable. (Jami Tirmidhi, Kitabul Hadd, Bab 22, Hadith nr. 1453, 1454)

3. In the Sahih Bukhari is a tradition according to which a slave had raped a slave-girl. Sayyidina Umar radiallahu anhu then imposed the Hadd upon the slave, yet not upon the slave-girl. (Sahih Bukhari, Kitabul Ikrah, Bab 6)

It is thus proven from the Holy Qur’an, the Sunnah of Allah’s Messenger sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, the verdicts of the Rightly Guided Caliphs and the noble Companions radiallahu anhum that the punishments to be inflicted for both Zina bir-Radha (adultery) and Zina bil Jabr (rape) are the same. It cannot be said that the Hadd mentioned in the Holy Qur’an and the sacred Ahadith is to be inflicted in case of Zina bir-Radh alone; and not in case of Zina bil Jabr.

Now arises the question as to why there is so much insistence on abolishing the shara’i punishment for Zina bil Jabr? The reason for this is the extremely unjust propaganda which certain circles have been busily spreading ever since the Hudood ordinance was implemented. According to this (false) propaganda, if any rape victim intends to sue the offender under the Hudood ordinance, she must produce four witnesses to support her claim. If this condition is not met, she is arrested in place of the offender. This claim has been and is being repeated incessantly, such that even educated people have begun to consider it as true. In fact, it is precisely claim which was argued as justification (for the new bill) by our president during his speech.

Now if such propaganda is publicized so much so that even the children on the streets are talking about it, then those who speak out against will be perceived as insane. However, if anyone wishes to analyse the matter objectively, then I would request him to leave all of the propaganda aside for a moment, and consider the following points:

The fact of the matter is that I myself have been directly hearing cases registered under Hudood Ordinance, first as a Judge of Federal Shariah Court and then for 17 years as a member of Shariah Appellate Bench of the Supreme Court. In this long tenure, not once did I come across a case in which a rape victim was punished because she was unable to present four witnesses. It was in fact impossible precisely due to the Hudood Ordinance that this instance did not occur: as according to Hudood Ordinance the condition of four witnesses was necessary only to enforce the Shariah punishment (hadd). Yet at the same time clause 10(3) was included to award the taa’zeeri punishment when one did not have four witnesses. Instead, the crime could be proven through one witness, medical examination and a chemical analysis report. Consequently, most rape criminals were awarded punishment due to this clause.

What we need to consider is that if a woman was unable to present four witnesses and was given punishment, which clause of the Hudood Ordinance resulted in this? If anyone claims that she was punished because of Qazaf (false accusation of rape), then the response is that the Qazaf Ordinance, Clause no. 3, Exemption no. 2 clearly states that if someone approaches the legal authorities with a rape allegation, she cannot be punished if she is unable to present 4 witnesses. No court of law can be in its right mind to award a punishment to her in this case. The other possibility could be that the woman is awarded punishment for committing adultery with mutual consent. And if the court of law takes such a decision it would not be merely because the woman was unable to present four witnesses, but because the court arrived at this decision after giving due consideration to all the available and alternative evidences. Clearly if a woman accuses a man of raping her but subsequent evidence proves that she committed adultery with her free will, thus proving her allegation to be false, then punishing her will not be against the spirit of justice. But since usually there is a lack of sufficient evidence to prove that the woman is lying, even these such cases are rare. In 99% of cases it so happens that the court of law is not convinced that the woman has been raped, yet since there is lack of sufficient evidence to prove her wilful involvement, she is granted the benefit of doubt and set free.

In fact, this can be verified very easily by doing an analyses of the cases executed under the Hudood Ordinance in the last 27 years. Other judges who have been involved in the proceedings have been of the same opinion: that even when a woman’s character is found to be doubtful she is not punished; only the man is punished.

Since from the very beginning allegations were being raised against the Hudood Ordinance that innocent women were being punished because of it, an American Scholar Charles Kennedy became interested and visited Pakistan in order to conduct a survey of the cases. He analysed all of the data related to the Hudood Ordinance cases and presented the results in the form of a report which has since been published. The results are consistent with the facts mentioned above. He writes in his report:

Women fearing conviction under Section 10(2) frequently bring charges of rape under 10(3) against their alleged partners. The FSC finding no circumstantial evidence to support the latter charge, convict the male accused under section 10(2)….the women is exonerated of any wrongdoing due to reasonable doubt rule.

[Charles Kennedy: The Status of Women in Pakistan in Islamization of Laws page 74]

This is what an unbiased non-Muslim scholar who has no sympathies towards the Hudood Ordinance observed with regard to such women who had actually consented to committing Zina, but then due to pressure from their families, tried to declare it as rape. They were not asked to produce four witnesses, but to furnish circumstantial evidence. On being unable to furnish the circumstantial evidence which would verify their claim of having been raped, only the male parties were punished, whilst the female parties went unpunished- as no transgression could be proven on their part. Hence there is no such clause in the Hudood Ordinance that if a woman fails to produce four witnesses to support her claim of having been raped, she is to be punished in place of offender.

It is however possible that during investigations conducted by the police, and before the matter could be brought to the court, some rape-victims were indeed wrongly and without any justification arrested as committers of Zina bir-Radha. This does not, however, stem from a flaw in the Hudood Ordinance. Unfortunately, the police in our country are quite prone to commit such acts of injustice while enforcing the law. This does not necessitate that the law itself be changed. In our country, keeping heroin is a crime. And it happens quite often that the police themselves hide heroin with innocent citizens only to blackmail them afterwards. Should we then—in order to resolve this problem—abolish the law which states that keeping heroin is a crime?

Through its decisions, the Federal Shar’iah Court had several times put an end to maltreatment which rape victims were forced to suffer at the hands of the police. However, if one was to assume that this risk of abuse had not yet been fully eliminated, then one could draft a law stating that no woman claiming to have been raped could be arrested under any article of the Hudood Ordinance, until the court had delivered its final judgment. Even then, one could make further laws prescribing punishment for one who wrongly arrests a rape-victim. But under no circumstances is it permissible to abolish the punishment which the Holy Shari’ah has laid down for Zina bil Jabr (rape).

Hence,

The way in which the bill under discussion abolishes the punishment for rape as prescribed by the Holy Shari’ah is in utter contradiction with the Holy Qur’an and the Sunnah, and is in no way related to the alleged maltreatment of women.

Courts in Muslim countries, like any other, will have a difficult time in determining the truth when it comes to allegations of rape. In some countries, however, if the defendant cannot prove her claim a number of things can happen.

1. She can be excused, as cited in the example above
2. Failure to prove the claim could, by default, be interpreted as a failed attempt to falsely slander another to get the death penalty.
3. If you can't prove there was rape, then at least fornication occurred. That carries a jail sentence. If she was married, it was adultery and that can carry a death sentence in some places - hence the articles of women who complained of rape being stoned.

If it is the third, then both the male and female would be seen as equally guilty and given the same punishment. In Pakistan's case, you have an attempt to introduce secular laws in order loosen the requirements of evidence to prevent the above.

 

[Brobzoid]

People really should be at least made aware of these sorts of risks by the embassy when they want to travel to such places. The ministry of foreign affairs doesn't even mention these medieval laws on their travel advice site, which I think is quite bad.

http://www.landsider.no/land/emirater/reise/sikkerhet/

 

[GungHo]

I feel aggrieved that my first response to the thread title was 'why the fuck would you report a rape in Dubai?!'.

What a fucking shithole.

If you're female and travelling alone, don't go there. I don't care what the opportunity is with your job, say no. If they insist on sending you, say no. If they threaten to fire you, walk away. Your job isn't worth your freedom or your life.

women can't drink alcohol there?

Isn't that suppose to be a tourist place?

Generally, no one can drink alcohol on the Arabian peninsula unless they have a prescription for it from a doctor due to them being an alcoholic. Understand that's a generality and that someone may come on and say "BUT BUH BUH BUH IN KUAIT I HAVE BIG FUNTIME PARTY". That's not to say there aren't speak-easies, but those sorts of things are on the very DL and basically rely on payoffs to stay open.

 

[farisr]

These stories often come up but the articles don't provide much context as to how these decisions are made.

The Islamic requirement to prove rape is similar to that to prove adulterery; multiple witnesses (four) seeing intercourse take place.

The Islamic requirement to prove rape is actually the same way to prove murder (as in evidence is seeked out, doesn't require a number of witnesses, and benfit of the doubt is given to the victim). It's the f***ed up countries that decide "it's just adultery" that mess things up.

Plenty of fatwas have been widely passed saying it is a violent crime and not just simply adultery, and hence the procedure SHOULD be different.

But yes, unfortunately many countries have the "it's just adultery" definition of rape, and . The procedure to prove adultery is very difficult due to the punishment being severe (and the fact that it wasn't a violent crime, but two consenting adults that committed the sin)

Also, these countries are NOT following Islamic laws. It has actually been stated non-muslims in a true Islamic state do not have to adhere to Islamic restrictions (and that would include adultery, drinking alcohol, eating pork and what not).

 

[Phat Michael]

Generally, no one can drink alcohol on the Arabian peninsula unless they have a prescription for it from a doctor due to them being an alcoholic. Understand that's a generality and that someone may come on and say "BUT BUH BUH BUH IN KUAIT I HAVE BIG FUNTIME PARTY". That's not to say there aren't speak-easies, but those sorts of things are on the very DL and basically rely on payoffs to stay open.

dude that's not true at All. please don't spread misinformation. to get a liquor license all you need is a passport copy, visa copy and a NOC from your company. all these are easy to get. it doesn't require a note from a doctor at all.

 

[MutFox]

When going to countries like these,
you have to be prepared for their laws...

Feel sorry for her,
and I hope she gets out of jail safely.

At least she didn't get the death penalty... :/

 

[Aberrant]

Fucking stupid religion

 

[Polari]

When going to countries like these,
you have to be prepared for their laws...

Uh like getting raped and going to jail for reporting it?

 

[Pollux]

.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Well, no way I'm going to Dubai to work or as a tourist until they change their laws.

 

[liquidtmd]

If this occurred in somewhere like Iraq, Afganistan or parts of Africa, Governments and Human Rights organisations would be queuing up to condemn them and score easy points.

Stories like this occurring more and more in Dubai. Response from same groups? 'Dubai is gonna Dubai and we've gotta respect their laws'

 

[Demon Ice]

Never understood why somebody (especially a woman) would willingly enter such a backwater shithole.

 

[scar tissue]

Have been reading about this today, terrible.

Over the last year or so with stories like this, and Zimmerman like decisions in courts around the world I'm making a mental list of places were justice is broken and I never want to associate with.

Better not leave your house/flat then.
Some places are undoubtedly way worse than others (case in point), but let's not pretend stuff like Zimmermann doesn't happen elsewhere.

 

[Jarmel]

Isn't this the place where the World Cup is being held?

 

[Wubby]

If she gets raped in jail by a guard or someone does the sentence get extended I wonder?

 

[archnemesis]

Isn't this the place where the World Cup is being held?

No, that's Qatar although they have similar backwards laws and customs.

 

[jett]

People that follow these laws are truly human garbage.

 

[electristan]

Better not leave your house/flat then.
Some places are undoubtedly way worse than others (case in point), but let's not pretend stuff like Zimmermann doesn't happen elsewhere.

Horrible stuff happening is one thing, I'm not that naive.

Governments and laws failing to protect people, or give basic "justice" to the afflicted party (and in this case punishing them) and then seeing nothing wrong with that failure is another matter.

 

[liquidtmd]

No, that's Qatar although they have similar backwards laws and customs.

With segments of fans used to travelling to such Tournaments to get boozed and shagged up with each other and the locals, its going to be an absolute shitstorm

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Well between the ear maggots in Peru and now this backwards bullshit, I'm staying right where I am. Fuck off, world.

 

[Jack_AG]

well that's ridiculous. so when I visited America last year I'm supporting guys being armed killing black teenagers and getting off Scott free? of course not. this thing is terrible but don't paint the whole country because of something like this.

Yes. A GOVERNMENT which imposes authority is the EXACT same as 6 jurors who deliberate and pass judgment based on admitted evidence.

Well done!

 

[GungHo]

dude that's not true at All. please don't spread misinformation. to get a liquor license all you need is a passport copy, visa copy and a NOC from your company. all these are easy to get. it doesn't require a note from a doctor at all.

I'm willing to be wrong about Dubai/UAE. I do know that things operate that way elsewhere.

 

[bjb]

Fucking Dubai, some things never change.

 

[NeoAmon]

As a Muslim, do you know what shit me more than those outrages court ruling?

People blaming Islam for the stupid ruling of the court and Laws. Dubai laws got nothing to do with Islam, period. They are fucked up human laws, noting more nothing less.

This is not even a bad interruption of the Quran so please don't even try to go there.

Beside, I recall when an Australian man was arrested in Saudi Arabia for a felony, the Australian embassy stepped in, issued an official statement and hired a lawyer for him. Local and international media were covering it, how come these rape cases got no coverage/statements from official sources? I'm asking, not denying them.

Edit: There was also a case in Dubai, a UAE citizen had an affair with his secretary (South African). She was deported with no jail time and he was sent to jail. I'm quite confused really with a woman getting jail time for sex in Dubai when they sell alcohol right next to a huge mosque in Dubai. To me the whole thing does not make seance.

 

[farisr]

well that's ridiculous. so when I visited America last year I'm supporting guys being armed killing black teenagers and getting off Scott free? of course not. this thing is terrible but don't paint the whole country because of something like this.

I honestly don't have any issue with people painting the country like this (and yeah, it is supporting the country if you go visit as you are contributing to their economy).

Don't treat the locals in the country as rapists or rape-supporters, rape-victim punishers, but yeah the country itself, the government of the country, its laws. Hate it all you want.

Bring up an issue. Get it known. Perhaps then these idiots will learn something (probably not, but at least you tried).

btw, this is coming from a guy who was born in the U.A.E. I will only bring up an issue if it's being said that these are Islamic laws.

 

[not_so_special]

but according by several gaf i have read..dubai is a pretty cool place...


sorry people,but that place is fucked and spending money there makes you part of this

 

[Septimius]

As a Muslim, do you know what shit me more than those outrages court ruling?

People blaming Islam for the stupid ruling of the court and Laws. Dubai laws got nothing to do with Islam, period. They are fucked up human laws, noting more nothing less.

This is not even a bad interruption of the Quran so please don't even try to go there.

Beside, I recall when an Australian man was arrested in Saudi Arabia for a felony, the Australian embassy stepped in, issued an official statement and hired a lawyer for him. Local and international media were covering it, how come these rape cases got no coverage/statements from official sources? I'm asking, not denying them.

Umh, Norway's Foreign Department most certainly is helping out this woman. And culture and laws go hand in hand. American gun laws is a good example. The at one point active no jews in Norway law is another. I'm sure it's not hard to find ample examples on religion affecting culture affecting laws, and it's hard to say that this isn't one of those cases.

 

[Dynedom]

I cannot wait to get out of Dubai. I am ashamed every day that I live/work here.

The fact that this happens at all in this place is inexcusable, no matter how "rare" it might be.

If she gets raped in jail by a guard or someone does the sentence get extended I wonder?

Only if she reports it, apparently.

 

[Demon Ice]

As a Muslim, do you know what shit me more than those outrages court ruling?

People blaming Islam for the stupid ruling of the court and Laws.

So you're angrier about people talking badly about your religion than you are about a woman who was jailed for being raped.


Yup, you're religious alright. Why care about real people when you've got imaginary friends and meaningless, Iron Age - era texts to defend?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

As a Muslim, do you know what shit me more than those outrages court ruling?

People blaming Islam for the stupid ruling of the court and Laws. Dubai laws got nothing to do with Islam, period. They are fucked up human laws, noting more nothing less.

This is not even a bad interruption of the Quran so please don't even try to go there.

Beside, I recall when an Australian man was arrested in Saudi Arabia for a felony, the Australian embassy stepped in, issued an official statement and hired a lawyer for him. Local and international media were covering it, how come these rape cases got no coverage/statements from official sources? I'm asking, not denying them.

Edit: There was also a case in Dubai, a UAE citizen had an affair with his secretary (South African). She was deported with no jail time and he was sent to jail. I'm quite confused really with a woman getting jail time for sex in Dubai when they sell alcohol right next to a huge mosque in Dubai. To me the whole thing does not make seance.

No true scotsman up in this bitch!

Inevitably, when discussing the ass-backwards laws and customs of muslim theocracies.

 

[RiZ III]

I doubt this sentence will last. The courts are often ruled by really dumb hardlined judges who end up passing these sentences. Once the press gets word of it, the King or in this case Sheikh steps in and overrules the court.

 

[NeoAmon]

So you're angrier about people talking badly about your religion than you are about a woman who was jailed for being raped.


Yup, you're religious alright.

Nay, I'm more pissed on the rulings more than anything but adding "Islam" to anything that happens on the Arab land is also fucked up.

Plus, I'm not religious, not even close.

 

[popeutlal]

NeoAmon, these laws and rape convictions of women seem to only be born in Muslim countries and culture. Why do you think that is?

 

[Brobzoid]

I wrote an email to the Norweigan ministry of foreign affair's tourism site asking them to present this issue more clearly on their site. As of now it only states that "Homofili og samboerskap er forbudt i FAE. Man bør unngå å fysisk demonstrere følelser mellom kvinner og menn offentlig"

Homosexuality and cohabitation are banned in the UAE.
One should avoid physically demonstrate affection between women and men in public.

I think omitting the laws regarding sex and rape as they now do is dangerous for tourists and travelers.

 

[Slackbladder]

Does Dubai implement Sharia Law? Or is it a mixture of secular/civil and Sharia or not at all?

Personally, if I were the Norwegian President I'd say "Fuck you, we're taking her home" and damn the consequences. (I'd be a terrible politician).

 

[kurisu1974]

dude that's not true at All. please don't spread misinformation. to get a liquor license all you need is a passport copy, visa copy and a NOC from your company. all these are easy to get. it doesn't require a note from a doctor at all.

Expatriate non-Muslim residents may request a liquor permit to purchase alcoholic beverages, but it is illegal for such holders to provide drinks to others.[

So this info is wrong then, everybody can get such a permit? Natives need a visa too then?

I have a friend in Bahrain, he reminds me of you. During the riots there, he said it was all the people's fault, they got everything they needed and still aren't happy. I guess press works differently there too, and even level headed and eductated Europeans can end up confused.

 

[farisr]

No true scotsman up in this bitch!

Inevitably, when discussing the ass-backwards laws and customs of muslim theocracies.

Bad accusations of no true scotsman in this bitch!

Inevitable when religion is involved. Gotta keep up with the cliche "religion is bad and responsible for the horrors of the world, and its faithful followers are in denial" idea.

 

[farisr]

NeoAmon, these laws and rape convictions of women seem to only be born in Muslim countries and culture. Why do you think that is?

They existed in Christian societies before too. They weren't "born" in Muslim countries and culture.