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[daviyoung]

13 Hours isn't patriotic. It's jingoistic nonsense.

Brody's argument is that 13 hours isn't 'about' anything, while Dunkirk is about the cultural British identity (as opposed to WW2, the actual events at Dunkirk, etc. etc.)

You disagree?

13 Hours is about how awesome American soldiers are and how cowardly and badly organised their bureaucracy and their foreign allies are

that said, I don't understand how Dunkirk is about British identity, is it just because it's about Britain?

it's about British soldiers that tell the French to get in their own boats, that doesn't mean the French are an after-thought

there's nothing about this movie that made me think "cor blimey, makes me proud to be British that does", nor is there anything in that review that makes me think it either but it does tell a resolutely British story, it just appears that expensive blockbusters not being about Americans is kind of troubling to some

they say it enough in the film: "survive", so I mean it could be about that...but what I actually think it's about is Nolan showing off by presenting a set of Matryoshka dolls made up of moments within moments within moments that stretch beyond what it is presented on screen

Oh.

Well. Can you send my answers to the reviewer?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds discussing opinions through proxy baffling, but I've started so I'll finish

 

[kosmologi]

Yea it was personal stories among a bigger event. I'm surprised that ruined the movie for some people.

Didn't ruin it for me (if that's what you meant since I posted the criticism link). Criticism certain aspects of the film is not equal to not liking.

Here are my own first thoughts:

A very good film. Is it Nolan's best? Not in my opinion, at least based on one viewing.

Cinematography was the best aspect of the film, the colours and shots were beautiful. The beach and the aviation scenes were best part of this film.

The story and dialogue could perhaps be described as minimalistic, the characterization reminded me of 2001: A Space Odyssey, because Noland didn't want to build characters rather than show their journey.

Like many have mentioned the movie was loud, too loud in some scenes. The same issue was there with Interstellar, too. It's difficult to find justification for this, because in some places the volume was so loud it completely muddled the soundscape.

 

[Piggus]

Just saw this last night and loved it. As expected, many people here seem incapable of enjoying a movie unless it meets their overly strict guidelines of what a movie should be. I'm going to have to agree with my former history teacher that this is one of the best WWII films I've ever seen.

 

[daviyoung]

some light hearted fun from a British satire mag

 

[Google]

they say it enough in the film: "survive",

That reminds me of the scene where Cillian Murphy tells the boys

Spoiler

after they've just escaped from drowning in the big battleship

that

"the sea is calm, not too cold, you've got lifejackets on. You'll be OK..."

 

[FutureLarking]

Just saw this last night and loved it. As expected, many people here seem incapable of enjoying a movie unless it meets their overly strict guidelines of what a movie should be. I'm going to have to agree with my former history teacher that this is one of the best WWII films I've ever seen.

Conversely, this is one of the most glamed up WWII films I've ever seen that does its best to remove as much of actual war as it can. Which perhaps was the point but it doesn't make it a better movie for it.

 

[JB1981]

Conversely, this is one of the most glamed up WWII films I've ever seen that does its best to remove as much of actual war as it can. Which perhaps was the point but it doesn't make it a better movie for it.

Glammed up? In what way?

 

[Inferno313]

Conversely, this is one of the most glamed up WWII films I've ever seen that does its best to remove as much of actual war as it can. Which perhaps was the point but it doesn't make it a better movie for it.

What does this even mean?

 

[FutureLarking]

Glammed up? In what way?

For example, the generally clean beaches, free of bombs markings and debris and scorching and dead soldiers despite us seeing it bombed. Lack of mutilation and blood and generally skimping over any death scene or drowning. It skips over the harsher realities and chaos of war for a very simplified representation which yes makes it a suitable PG13 film, but when I watch a WW2 film I'm not exactly looking to be presented with un-realistic portrayal of it, especially on a film as hyped as this.

And honestly, selling the realities would only have worked in this films favour to really kick home how desperate and how lucky the evacuation was and actually make some of that tension it was desperately trying to build more earned.

 

[Az987]

I was able to see this on Sunday at a real IMAX. Great stuff. I wish there were more true IMAX theaters though because the only one in my state is at the science center and it feels like the theater is too small for the screen.

I brought my girlfriend with me but she wasn't crazy about the movie and I had to explain quite a bit to her.

I wasn't really crazy about the way the story would shift from the different characters and seemingly flashback at the same time. I always have a hard time telling who is who in war movies, outside of the well known actors because the helmets make everyone look similar, so it made it more difficult to follow for me.

 

[Google]

For example, the generally clean beaches, free of bombs markings and debris and scorching and dead soldiers despite us seeing it bombed. Lack of mutilation and blood and generally skimping over any death scene or drowning. It skips over the harsher realities and chaos of war for a very simplified representation which yes makes it a suitable PG13 film, but when I watch a WW2 film I'm not exactly looking to be presented with un-realistic portrayal of it, especially on a film as hyped as this..

I think this is either a generational or national thing because I just dont get this argument.

This stuff actually happened. Over 350,000 people died during this battle. I dont need movie filled with blood and guts to make me feel something. I dont need a movie to spell out how harsh things were because I intrinsically know.

What this movie did was paint three different stories into a single battle and work through the beats. You witness thousands of deaths throughout...Why do we need blood?

 

[inm8num2]

Film Crit Hulk SMASH: Christopher Nolan & The Cruelty Of Time

Hulk dives deep into the emotion behind this "unemotional" filmmaker.

I've only read about 1/4 of the essay thus far but it's pretty good.

 

[jtb]

War films exist to dispel the very arrogance that 'we know how bad things are in war.' This is why it's 'impossible' to make an anti-war film.

Because... we don't. We think we do. But only the people that were there 'know' its horrors.

(so the argument goes anyways)

Dunkirk is a sanitized history to make money. I don't really mind because Dunkirk is a film that's not about anything, least of all Dunkirk, so you can't really fail at something you don't attempt.

 

[daviyoung]

War films exist to dispel the very arrogance that 'we know how bad things are in war.' This is why it's 'impossible' to make an anti-war film.

Because... we don't. We think we do. But only the people that were there 'know' its horrors.

(so the argument goes anyways)

Dunkirk is a sanitized history to make money. I don't really mind because Dunkirk is a film that's not about anything, least of all Dunkirk, so you can't really fail at something you don't attempt.

interesting, but then again:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...styles-cillian-murphy-tom-hardy-a7856456.html

 

[Vincent Alexander]

interesting, but then again:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...styles-cillian-murphy-tom-hardy-a7856456.html

I mean, this is great, in a sad kind of way...but I don't think that forgives Dunkirk of all of it's issues. If anything, it means less that a person who was there was moved to tears by it---he has his actual memories to trigger his emotions. We don't.

 

[daviyoung]

I mean, this is great, in a sad kind of way...but I don't think that forgives Dunkirk of all of it's issues. If anything, it means less that a person who was there was moved to tears by it---he has his actual memories to trigger his emotions. We don't.

lol, nice catch 22

I think the camera most probably just didn't capture the part where he said "it was nothing like that, where the fuck was all the blood and guts?! this Nolan character is a fucking hack"

he probably whispered that to his mate in the cinema instead

 

[Albino_Yeti]

interesting, but then again:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...styles-cillian-murphy-tom-hardy-a7856456.html

I watched that interview with him a few days ago. Poor man lost so many friends. And his thoughts on how war never ends are really powerful as well.

It's going to be a sad, sad day when the last WW2 vet passes away.

 

[Goofalo]

Saw this yesterday.

This movie is everything I love about Mark Rylance.

 

[WriterGK]

People can argue they don't like the film. But I doubt anyone argue this is not an unique warmovie.

 

[jtb]

interesting, but then again:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...styles-cillian-murphy-tom-hardy-a7856456.html

I'm not sure I understand your point. Do people bleed when they are shot by bullets?

 

[daviyoung]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Do people bleed when they are shot by bullets?

your point was that we don't understand the atrocities of war, so we have no idea, but there's probably blood involved

well there's someone that does understand, and understands the exact event, not mentioning it...so why are you?

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Don't get me wrong, I think something was taken away when Nolan opted to keep this film in the PG13 realm, but jtb's hate-boner for this film is something else.

 

[_Isaac]

there was a ton of old people in my showing. I hope they liked it. it was cute, they were all standing together and talking about it afterwards. remember that?

I saw it in 70MM IMAX and afterwards I heard an older couple say "Pfft IMAX..." I just thought that was funny. They were not impressed.

 

[jtb]

Don't get me wrong, I think something was taken away when Nolan opted to keep this film in the PG13 realm, but jtb's hate-boner for this film is something else.

I just don't understand why this film exists.

If it had a more coherent thesis - or a thesis at all - it would be a lot easier to frame Nolan's creative decisions within the context of the film. Without it, we're just relying on the same Nolan-as-God readings which have been used to write off the dumbest aspects of Nolan's career since time immemorial. Boring.

 

[daviyoung]

I just don't understand why this film exists.

If it had a more coherent thesis - or a thesis at all - it would be a lot easier to frame Nolan's creative decisions within the context of the film. Without it, we're just relying on the same Nolan-as-God readings which have been used to write off the dumbest aspects of Nolan's career since time immemorial. Boring.

Sad! I have no idea what you mean when you ask why the film exists, you probably need to be a bit specific with your expectations there.

Nolan's creative decisions come from showing a week's worth of activity, told from different viewpoints and at different times, from one event. There's nothing more to it than that.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

I just don't understand why this film exists.

It's entertaining?

It's an audio visual masterpiece?

Why does any film exist?

 

[TissueBox]

To me, thematically the film was about the rescue not all being for nothing and that the efforts by the old made to save the young would soon be returned in equal measure by the young fighters and heroes of WWII. All thanks to how it wrapped up, there was more meaningful subtext injected into the preceding events' mostly fly-on-the-wall spectacle imo.

 

[DecoReturns]

Film exists becuase it's a story that's. Not often told, if at all.

That's what Nolan said. Pretty easy to understand. Feels like you just wanted a different movie

 

[Psychoward]

It's entertaining?

It's an audio visual masterpiece?

Why does any film exist?

The dialog mixing ruins any goodwill the amazing sound design gives off for me

 

[Ashes]

Watched it a second time at a smaller cheaper theatre. Colours were as dazzling as ever but the sound system was a huge loss.
Guy in front of me who leaned forward so often and being so tall made me thankful I had watched it in imax the first time round.

Saw more of the story in the second run.

 

[WriterGK]

I used to hate the fact that it's about coward British Army that need to evacuate back to Brittain. But now I think that actually is a good thing about the movie. And ofcourse its a true story. But I do wonder, should the British people celebrate a defeat/evacuation? I wonder if the British Army would have sent more troops they could have drove the Nazi's out of France. But we never know, cause it never happened.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

The dialog mixing ruins any goodwill the amazing sound design gives off for me

Not the movies strong suit for sure. But the sounds during the bombing sequences and dogfighting scenes easily makes it up for me.

And those aerial camera shots over the channel. My god.

 

[daviyoung]

I used to hate the fact that it's about coward British Army that need to evacuate back to Brittain. But now I think that actually is a good thing about the movie. And ofcourse its a true story. But I do wonder, should the British people celebrate a defeat/evacuation? I wonder if the British Army would have sent more troops they could have drove the Nazi's out of France. But we never know, cause it never happened.

The British don't celebrate Dunkirk but the evacuation potentially saved those soldiers lives, but yeh cowards the lot of them, just send more cannon fodder into Dunkirk.

 

[WriterGK]

The British don't celebrate Dunkirk but the evacuation potentially saved those soldiers lives, but yeh cowards the lot of them, just send more cannon fodder into Dunkirk.

Agree. America/Canada/Brits could argue they won WOII. And liberated Europe. But one could argue if they stept in sooner the war would have been way shorter and with millions of dead people less, right?

 

[jtb]

Sad! I have no idea what you mean when you ask why the film exists, you probably need to be a bit specific with your expectations there.

Nolan's creative decisions come from showing a week's worth of activity, told from different viewpoints and at different times, from one event. There's nothing more to it than that.

It's entertaining?

It's an audio visual masterpiece?

Why does any film exist?

Film exists becuase it's a story that's. Not often told, if at all.

That's what Nolan said. Pretty easy to understand. Feels like you just wanted a different movie

I just wanted to hold Nolan to the standard of a great director. I thought he was aiming for greatness, not Wonder Woman. If he's resigned himself to being the best of the big budget popcorn directors (a James Cameron if you will, sorry Sculli), that's fine too. It's a good fit for him.

I did think he had higher aspirations than that, however.

Of course, there's also the fact that I'm a little bitter that Nolan's enormous, throbbing cock won't fit in my mouth but that's neither here nor there

 

[Psychoward]

I used to hate the fact that it's about coward British Army that need to evacuate back to Brittain. But now I think that actually is a good thing about the movie. And ofcourse its a true story. But I do wonder, should the British people celebrate a defeat/evacuation? I wonder if the British Army would have sent more troops they could have drove the Nazi's out of France. But we never know, cause it never happened.

bruv

 

[daviyoung]

I just wanted to hold Nolan to the standard of a great director. I thought he was aiming for greatness, not Wonder Woman. If he's resigned himself to being the best of the big budget action directors (a James Cameron if you will, sorry Sculli), that's fine too. I did think he had higher aspirations than that, however.

Of course, there's also the fact that I'm a little bitter that Nolan's enormous, throbbing cock won't fit in my mouth but that's neither here nor there

Inception was basically a computer game movie, complete with a final ice level, so of course he's a big budget action director. Even The Prestige was a show-piece.

But also I think:

 

[WriterGK]

I do think Nolan is great and good. But those Nolan as GOAT/God memes/pictures must be jokes right?

 

[Inferno313]

This thread is very strange.

 

[DecoReturns]

I do think Nolan is great and good. But those Nolan as GOAT/God memes/pictures must be jokes right?

Yeah. Mostly memes.

The WB executives are the ones that actually hang those pictures on their wall

 

[frontovik]

Nolan is no Spielberg or Kubrick as far as I'm concerned.

 

[jtb]

Inception was basically a computer game movie, complete with a final ice level, so of course he's a big budget action director. Even The Prestige was a show-piece.

But also I think:

The Prestige is Nolan's only great film. Inception is vapid trash.

 

[_Nemo]

I'm really not getting the argument people make saying "I don't need blood or limbs flying to know the horror of war".

Okay? It doesn't matter about your needs. It doesn't matter that you don't "need" to see it. What matters is that it happened, and whether or not you like it, or whether or not you didn't "need" to see it, atleast somewhat of the carnage and chaos does need to be shown. Not for the viewer, but for the sake of the actual event as it happened.

Agreed that the movie was too clean and the scale wasn't captured. Nolan's arrogance on CGI really hurt him here.

Still a good film, I'd give it 7/10.

 

[WriterGK]

I just googled and I didn't know but during the Dunkirk battle there were around 800.000 Nazi Soldiers in Dunkirk/France. Seems very much legit to Aboard/Evacuate

 

[4Tran]

I think this is either a generational or national thing because I just dont get this argument.

This stuff actually happened. Over 350,000 people died during this battle. I dont need movie filled with blood and guts to make me feel something. I dont need a movie to spell out how harsh things were because I intrinsically know.

That would be just about all of the deaths in the entire Battle of France. That's not what Dunkirk is about though.

Film exists becuase it's a story that's. Not often told, if at all.

That's what Nolan said. Pretty easy to understand. Feels like you just wanted a different movie

The story that goes untold about Dunkirk is that it saw the heaviest fighting during the entire Battle of France, and by all accounts, it doesn't get told here either. So does that mean that Nolan lied, or did he just not do the research?

I used to hate the fact that it's about coward British Army that need to evacuate back to Brittain. But now I think that actually is a good thing about the movie. And ofcourse its a true story. But I do wonder, should the British people celebrate a defeat/evacuation? I wonder if the British Army would have sent more troops they could have drove the Nazi's out of France. But we never know, cause it never happened.

It wouldn't have mattered. The Allied forces were stronger and more numerous than the German attackers. They were just positioned poorly and were outmaneuvered and outfought. To win, they would have needed better generals at the highest levels of command and a better strategic plan.

 

[DecoReturns]

I just googled and I didn't know but during the Dunkirk battle there were around 800.000 Nazi Soldiers in Dunkirk/France. Seems very much legit to Aboard/Evacuate

Yeah. Germany could've finished them off but held back.

Who knows what the war would be like if Didn't retreat.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

lol, nice catch 22

I think the camera most probably just didn't capture the part where he said "it was nothing like that, where the fuck was all the blood and guts?! this Nolan character is a fucking hack"

he probably whispered that to his mate in the cinema instead

My point is that posting an article of a vet who got teary-eyed is a nice story, but it isn't really convincing of anything one way or the other. Lordy.

The Prestige is Nolan's only great film. Inception is vapid trash.

These are fighting words.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

I do think Nolan is great and good. But those Nolan as GOAT/God memes/pictures must be jokes right?

Yes. He's not as good a director as many others.

Although his ability to mesh artsy unique ideas and turn them into summer blockbuster box office smash hits is incredible.

He's never made a sequel and never done anything other than a new IP, also never had a flop. That is so amazingly rare these days. If you care about movies at all then you should be very happy Christopher Nolan is in the business, and should hope he has continued success.

 

[Inferno313]

Yes. He's not as good a director as many others.

Although his ability to mesh artsy unique ideas and turn them into summer blockbuster box office smash hits is incredible.

He's never made a sequel and never done anything other than a new IP, also never had a flop. That is so amazingly rare these days. If you care about movies at all then you should be very happy Christopher Nolan is in the business, and should hope he has continued success.

Ummm...

 

[jtb]

Yes. He's not as good a director as many others.

Although his ability to mesh artsy unique ideas and turn them into summer blockbuster box office smash hits is incredible.

He's never made a sequel and never done anything other than a new IP, also never had a flop. That is so amazingly rare these days. If you care about movies at all then you should be very happy Christopher Nolan is in the business, and should hope he has continued success.

Right.