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Dyad (PSN) |OT| - Psychedelic Sensory Overload

Question because fuck it: What inspired you (Shawn McGrath) to create Dyad, especially all by yourself?
What was your main inspiration for creating this game?.
Question: What was your main vision before the development of the game?
Ancient Greek philosophy (pythagoreans) by way of German metaphysics (Got Willy Leebnitz). Monads begat dyads which begat reality which begat Shawn's mom which begat Shawn. It, like, all makes so much sense, man.
 

Ridley327

Member
Ancient Greek philosophy (pythagoreans) by way of German metaphysics (Got Willy Leebnitz). Monads begat dyads which begat reality which begat Shawn's mom which begat Shawn. It, like, all makes so much sense, man.

myeyes.gif
 

ShawnMcGrath

Dyad Developer
Taking a break from sending press emails... lets do page 1 questions:

Is this game the result of synesthesia in anyway?
I don't have it, but I actually did test it on someone who does and it really fucked her up =)
There is one part of the game where I and everyone else, (I think, there might have been one or two people who didn't experience it), preceive a change in the music even though there isn't one. I'm not going to spoil where, but there is one part where there's a drastic visual change and no audio change but you can "hear" an audio change -- this was completely accidental and extremely cool!

JC Fletcher from Joystiq said: " He asked if I'd heard the music change when the visuals abruptly changed, which I had. He then told me the music didn't actually change, meaning that I'd heard the visual effects. My senses had become tangled."
(http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/12/dyad-is-a-mind-altering-substance/)

Am I going to see a monolith at the foot of my bed after playing this?
The end is completely inspired by 2001, it is my favourite movie by a mile. However "inspired by" does not mean "re-purposed" like in 4AM, (I'm not saying that was bad either btw, it was really great to see). I'm doing my own thing with everything in the game, including the end, but I was definitely going for a similar feeling that I got with 2001. All of the game is "inspired" by games, movies and books that i've played/seen/read, but I don't think there's anything that's supposed to be a direct re-purpose/homage... except in the level names and the ridiculous press release I wrote -- I ripped a sentence almost completely verbatim, (as close to as possible anyway) from David Foster Wallace for those curious -- I was hoping someone would catch it :)

Question because fuck it: What inspired you (Shawn McGrath) to create Dyad, especially all by yourself?
I really don't know to be honest. The game changed so much since it's original ideas that it's become so cloudy. I think the most honest answer is everything I've ever experienced =) I'd play the game, and change it repeatedely for 3 years... the biggest inspiration at each moment was actually the state of the game at the time. I never really had any top-down design other than "fast game in a tube" everything else grew organically though playing it.

Was it an artistic choice or one born from necessity for the gameplay? Or maybe a combo of both? Or maybe drugs?
It was almost completely born from necessity. I kept trying to push the limits of how fast I could make it while keeping it strategic, as opposed to a complete clusterfuck... there's a lot of visual trickery to make it feel faster than it is, and a lot of other tricks used to guide your eye to the most important information on the screen. Targetting in 3D is also extremely difficult, and there's an information dissonance gap between what your brain sees on the screen and what you want to do... I did a lot of testing to minimize that and make it as easy to play as possible... the graphics came out of this testing.

Another big thing is I wanted a lot of mechanics because I want to explore the interaction palette thoroughly, which means a lot of levels. I don't want to pad the game out and make it long unnecessarily, (leaderboards and trophies make it PLENTY long, I don't imagine most people will beat all the trophy levels in less than 12 hours), which means the levels have to be short. So a lot of short levels better have a lot of visual variety. The visual style I went with makes a lot of variety possible given that I don't really have any traditional game graphic skills... oh yeah, that's another thing: I don't really know how to make anything else =)

Did you cheat the pack size to get it to be 1337MB?
Yes. It was 1354MB and I figured I could get it down to 1337. I worked so hard to get it down to 1337 that I got it to 1335... so I made 1 texture higher quality to bump it up a bit to 1337.


Shawn, I was watching a vid/interview where you said that the game was inspired a lot by what you read. I was wondering if you could say the same for your life experiences and if so I think it would be interesting to see how you tied them in or used them for inspiration.
I don't think it's actually a tight 1:1 relationship like that. I think I was trying to say that the game's very much a personal expression of mine; no one else could have made it, just like I couldn't make something that's your personal expression. All things I've experienced make up who am I right now, and the game is very much a manifestation of all those experiences. I hope when I'm all done with Dyad that I'm a completely different person and my next game will be very different!

Question: Can we expect this to come out for the Vita? I'm deadly serious.
You shouldn't expect it to come out for Vita, but you should expect me to do my best to make it for Vita. There's two requirements for a Vita version:
1. has to be free for people who buy the PS3 version (I've already talked to Sony and this looks like it won't be a problem)
2. I has to not suck. I like the Vita a lot, it's my favourite piece of hardware, but Dyad was designed with a large screen in mind. I don't know if it will be good on a small one (I'm serious when I say I don't care about selling more copies if it makes the game worse... I didn't include a lot of features that would probably make it sell better because I thought they made the game worse -- even ones I already implemented!). If it is good, and it can be free to people who bought the PS3 version then I will make a Vita version. Also it has to run at 60fps... it looks shitty with less.

Question: How many people have passed out / fainted in the making of this game?
None, it's surpringly tame to play... one person did have a mild panick attack while previewing it, but it was a foreign environment and they were susceptible to them already. I technically have passed out many times I guess after 40 or 50 hour coding binges I guess =)

I just watched the gameplay video and I have no idea what you should be doing.

What icons I should be going for? Are there any to avoid?

Is the objective to gain "ludicrous-speed" into plaid in the shortest amount of time?

And, while probably not, I'll ask anyway. Is there an option to import your own songs and make tracks of it?
The game's pretty difficult to explain, sort of on purpose -- or at least that's a natural byproduct of the design. I wanted to try to do things that you can only do with videogames... Alan Moore talks a lot about how he tries to do things that you can only do with comics, which is why he hates the idea of his movies. I really like that approach.

The game can really only be understood by playing it I think, or at least watching other people play it and paying close attention. PSN Stores has a video with a glimpse at the early levels: http://www.psnstores.com/2012/07/gameplay-glimpse-dyad/ so does TSA: http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2012/07/10/dyad-first-play/ -- These are early levels and are pretty tame... the later levels get much crazier!

There's no option to import your own music. There's no linear music in the game at all; it's all generated from how you play. It's not possible to import your own music unless I had the multi-track mix and the musician stood with me for a week tweaking volume levels, chord changes, event sounds, etc... the dynamic music in Dyad is very complicated.

Question: How much is the maximum time recommended for a continuous play of Dyad? (without getting sick :p)
Infinity ;) I actually don't know. I played it for 30+ hours straight, and I was fine, but it's a pretty dense experience, I think it'd probably become unenjoyable after 2 or so hours without a break.

Question: At any point were you so tired while testing the game that the inevitable hallucinations that the game caused you actually spawn off into another level?
No? =) But I wrote a scripting language and my own low-level graphics library so I could fuck around with lots of variables very quickly to try graphic effects. Oftentimes I'd make one effect that was robust enough that it'd act as a "trunk" for a bunch of other effets. Sometimes I made effects that actually got lost... like this one: http://www.dyadgame.com/screenshots/DyadGone.png - I'm really sad I lost that =(

Did you make concept art for the stages?

How many people were involved in the project?
No concept art, all the art was made by programming. I described in the previous answer how I went about doing it, so there's no real need for concept art -- everything was made by playing what was already there!

Originally me and Pekko Koskinen designed the game and came up with the basic interaction model... for various reasons he couldn't continue on the project, (I saw him for the first time in 2 years at GDC and we hung out the whole time like we were still best friends). Derek Tong helped me program it and get it running on the PS3. Jason DeGroot got me hooked up Sony, helped with all the promotion and biz stuff early on, he did the early music and sound design -- he's working on Sound Shapes now where they can actually pay him ;) and of course David Kanaga did all the music and music design... "Music Design" isn't really a thing, but it totally makes sense for this game.... all the music is dynamically generated and there 27 completely different tracks with different music interaction rules -- it was a very involved process!

Questions: -The game has difficulty selection? or only the difficulty increases progressively when you advance through each stage? In a rank from 1 to 10, what rating would give to the difficulty of this game?

-There will be an option (or on the future) for use your own music (or to create it) to generate new levels?
1. There's no difficulty selection. There's 3 versions of each level: Game Mode (standard campaign), Trophy Mode (only way to earn trophies), and Remix. The Game mode levels are fairly easy, you can unlock the next level by getting 1 star (on a 3 star scale)... this shouldn't be difficult for most gamers. Getting 3 stars on a level unlocks the Trophy variation of the level... 3 stars on each level should be moderately difficult for the average gamer. Then there's the trophy level... some of these are very hard, and most gamers won't be able to complete them all.

So instead of having a standard difficulty selection, I thought really hard about how to make sure everyone can be challenged and rewarded w/o external rewards: superfluous unlockables, grind trophies, etc... I wanted to keep the game as pure as possible, (whatever that means)... I think it's a pretty good system, but I'd love to hear other people's ideas on how it could be improved!

2. already answered above. Short answer: no.

Question: I know you didn't want it to but do you feel your tweets about Indie Game: The Movie helped bring Dyad some needed publicity?
Probably no difference in either direction, I definitely pissed some people off, but a lot of people were appreciative of it -- maybe overall it was slightly helpful. I debated whether I should answer this question or not... so I'll stop now, and won't answer any more questions about it, please don't ask =)

Hey Shawn, I'm a fellow developer of synesthetic games and am really interested to check out Dyad. I'd love if you could explain a bit more about the technical process that goes into making a game like this.

Did you make your own engine or use an existing one? What kind of methods did you use for generating the graphics? How do you tackle the issue of quantizing game events to musical time, or is this a part of Dyad's aesthetic at all? Any other tidbits you could provide into the development would be much appreciated as well :)
Sure! All graphics are made in low-level OpenGL. There's almost no traditional use of "textures" I use textures as data a lot, like input into a shader to fuck with in code.. there's over 300 shaders in Dyad. There's a lot of render to texture, up to I think 14 render targets used at once?

I wrote a multi-threaded assembly-like graphic programming language so I can build graphic command lists in multiple threads for different objects in a unified list, then sort the list based on depth of the objects, (there's no opaque pixels in Dyad). I also double buffer the vertices, (which are generated in code on the CPU as well)... once the command list and vertex data is created, they're double buffered in a single threaded part of the code -- the verts are uploaded to the GPU and the command list is copied, (actually just a pointer is moved). Then the GPU starts rendering the frame the CPU just generated and the CPU starts on the next frame. It's actually a very simple system in code, just kinda difficult to explain! I will write an in-depth article on how the graphics rendering works later on, and include source code... I will also open source the game ASAP (meaning years).

No music is quantized, everything's generated by how you play, not the other way around. The only mathematically complex sound thing, (there's some code structural stuff that's very complex in the sound engine, but that's mostly because it has to handle such a wide variety of tasks), is sound syncing. Sometimes differnet sounds play at different speeds, like when you run into something, everything but the drums, and maybe one or two other sounds depending on the level run backwards... then when you regain forward momentum the sounds that were going backwards sync up with the forward sounds. This involves running the sounds backwards at -44100 samples per second, then when they go foward figuring out where to start reading the samples so if they move forward in n milliseconds, where should the sound start reading... meaning if we're at 0 samples per second now, and we want to be at 44100 samples in n milliseconds, where should the playback head be in order to sync with the kick drum? Figuring that out was challenging, but the solution is actually quite simple. Graphing samples on the Y axis, and time on the X axis, drawing a straight line from 0 time to n time (where you want them to be in sync), you can take the integral of that graph to get the number of samples you have to read... which if we use a linear function, (in Dyad's case we do, since it's such a short time you can't hear the difference in functions), it becomes a very simple triangle area function! I'll write a detailed post about this too with source code later =)

Question: What was the biggest challenge you faced during development?
Sticking with the game when it sucked, and throwing away 2 years of work. I knew there was a really good game hidden in it 3 years ago but I really struggled to find it... I tried so many things it's pretty insane thinking about it now. 3 years into development I learned a lot, and could see what definitely wasn't going to work, so I scrapped it... about 175k lines of code, I just straight up deleted it. I had a panic attack then and my wife came home very worried... it all worked out in the end so I'm not complaining =)

Question: Will I die if I come epileptic seizures. Seriously.
I really hope not =) I don't actually think the game is that bad for epileptics, (IM NOT SAYING TO TEST YOUR LUCK IF YOU ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO SEIZURES!!!!) There's not many, (any?) "flashing" colours. All colour changes happen through gradual hue shifts, (sometimes "gradual" can be fast), but there's not much in terms of actual flashing... the seizure/death comments are funny, but I think they're completely unfounded... if there was a danger it wouldn't be released =)

Question: It's quite clear, based on the reactions that I've seen thus far, that DYAD is a beautifully hypnotic title that appears to cause jaws to drop (just what I'm looking for). What lasting impressions do you hope to create? Or rather, what do you want the gamer to take away after playing the game? Are you aiming for the emotional highs that have typically come from developers like 'thatgamecompany', strictly multisensory stimulation that hits a player right in the amygdala, or are you looking to pave a unique path through a combination of the two? (I am aware that there's definitely a challenging arcade/puzzle-style game here, and that DYAD isn't just a nice coat of paint with a unique rhythmic style.)

And one quick side-question: Could you reveal to us any of your influences that weren't directly tied to level titles in the game, or that weren't immediately recognizable? I'm honestly quite interested.
I actually don't really care what people take away from it to be honest. I guess the only thing I hope is that people take away a variety of the things. Games are interactive and are played differently by different people, I hope their perceived meaning is different too.

I believe the leaderboards totally work as a high-level esport, (at least most levels). I have tested it with high level grandmaster starcraft players, and tournament soul calibur and street fighter players, (I used to play starcraft and soul calibur very competitively myself), so I tried to make sure the game has enough depth to satisfy those values. I'm actually trying to organize a tournment with a friend in NYC soon, and maybe get some Starcraft pros interested in it. Unforuntely you can't see any of this without playing it, and people naturally react to the visuals and audio -- which is awesome! because I tried really hard to make that stuff good too. It's somewhat frusturating to see people dismissing it as having the gameplay of a disposable iPhone game (not saying all iPhone games are bad/shallow, just saying that it's been compared to some kaleidoscope apps, and stuff like that), but I do understand that you can't really appreciate the depth of the game until you play it... maybe you have to play it a lot too. The trophy levels are designed to make you focus on one particular skill -- there's a lot of different skills required to be good at Dyad.

There's really too many influences to list, the game is kind of a manifestation of everything I've experienced in my life... but I'll try to list off my favourite games, movies and books that in some way or another influenced me.

Games: Tetris Attack, Radiant Silvergun, Soul Calibur 2, Starcraft, Parsec 47, Rez, Everyday Shooter, N
Movies: 2001, Visitor Q, A Clockwork Orange, Man with a Movie Camera
Books: Infinite Jest, Dubliners, Wasteland (poem), The Rum Diary, Cats Cradle, (anything by Vonnegut really)

Shawn, What was the funniest reaction that you have seen someone make while previewing your game for the first time? I'm sure there were many more like those gifs haha
I honestly don't know =) Justin McElroy's was pretty amazing

did Sony help you a lot with getting the game off the ground?
Not directly. Jason DeGroot's friend from Sony Japan was interested in the game from day 1 after seeing a VERY early build... if he wasn't interested I might have lost the motivation to continue. Sony came in officially much later, but they were always in the loop as to what was going on, and they were behind me, even if not officially from early on... I definitely would have not had the motivation to finish at certain times w/o knowing that if I did something good, there was a place to get it to people -- this might not seem like much, but when making your first game, it's pretty huge. Also, I *REALLY* wanted to make a home console game. It's something I've wanted to do since I was 11, and it feels like the right way to play Dyad: sitting on a couch, not distracted, so having Sony behind me, even vaguley was very motivating even if they weren't officially in the picture until much later.

This looks like the best psychedelic feast since Space Giraffe!

My question is, was it difficult to get this through the approval process passing epilepsy tests? Did you have to make any alterations to the visual design of the game to get it through?
Nope! it's actually not that bad for epileptics from what I can tell... I didn't do any scientific tests, but according to wikipedia and other things I read I don't do things that badly... it just seems bad =)

Okay everyone, that's the answers for page 1! Sorry I took so long, but I wanted to answer as thoroughly and thoughtfully as possible. I didn't answer any questions that were duplicates, or close enough to being duplicates! I also didn't proofread or spell check this, it'd take way too long, I hope it's comprehensible!

I will answer more questions later today or tomorrow, please keep 'em coming!

I gave codes to:
snorggy, guest1321, blackgandorf, Barryman, NJShadow.
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Probably no difference in either direction, I definitely pissed some people off, but a lot of people were appreciative of it -- maybe overall it was slightly helpful. I debated whether I should answer this question or not... so I'll stop now, and won't answer any more questions about it, please don't ask =)
I felt kinda bad bringing it up again which is why I made you your avatar. :)
 

guest1321

Member
Shawn thank you for the answer as well as the code. I sort of figured that in the sense that your experiences shape who you are that you would have put yourself in the game but could you tie certain levels to certain experiences in your life? If you are busy no worries, but I feel like with a game like this you really are making the most of a setting and to see you be so versatile with it is incredibly impressive and I'm wondering if an approach caused by an influence in life made it easier.
 
Here's a question, and sorry if it's been asked already - did you have any problems getting this game through certification because of the trippy visuals? I remember the developers of Wipeout HD had to tone down some of the visual effects in their "Zone" modes because they were possibly seizure inducing. Did you run into any of that?
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
I had to stop playing because it feels weird when I blink now. :lol

I think I have to limit myself to 15 minutes at a time if I'm going to play with the lights off.
 

Misguided

Banned
Is there anything philosophically that may have influenced certain design choices you made with Dyad? They can be game design, intellectual ideas, ethics...anything!
 

sarcoa

Member
Do you guys prefer the dpad or the thumbstick? I'm going back and forth on which one I like better, dpad seemed like the way to go in the first couple stages but now I feel like the a slight nudge on the analog stick to be a bit faster than quickly tapping the dpad.
 

ShawnMcGrath

Dyad Developer
I actually use both... in the same stage... I swap back and forth every few seconds depending on what I need to be doing!

Do you guys prefer the dpad or the thumbstick? I'm going back and forth on which one I like better, dpad seemed like the way to go in the first couple stages but now I feel like the a slight nudge on the analog stick to be a bit faster than quickly tapping the dpad.
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Do you guys prefer the dpad or the thumbstick? I'm going back and forth on which one I like better, dpad seemed like the way to go in the first couple stages but now I feel like the a slight nudge on the analog stick to be a bit faster than quickly tapping the dpad.

I'm using analog
 

Arcteryx

Member
Question: If there was one thing you could implement into the game that you didn't have time to do already what would it be?(ex: black & white mode
lol
)
 

yggdrasil

Member
I'm curious to hear more about the dynamic music generation system - how are the sound samples selected - randomization with weight applied for specific user interactions? What was the process for selecting the various sounds and BGM tracks and how were they integrated into the finished game?

Also, will there be unlockable shader or palette swaps similar to those seen in Child of Eden and Rez?
 

Jhriad

Member
After perusing through this thread I went onto PSN to buy the game only to realize I have to wait a week. Gah!

Looking forward to it.
 

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
Two more questions, Shawn. One, are you related to Jeremy McGrath of motocross fame? Two, does "Dyad" mean anything?
 
The only question I have was if there was any specific reason you chose David Kanaga to handle the music...aside from his work being fantastic.
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Okay, these last sets of levels are imagery overload. I'm not sure how much longer I can play this :lol
 

thcsquad

Member
...Graphing samples on the Y axis, and time on the X axis, drawing a straight line from 0 time to n time (where you want them to be in sync), you can take the integral of that graph

...and, we're back to Leibniz
 
I love it when devs do Q&As on GAF. Thanks for doing that!


btw I found a great list of the trophy icons and trophy descriptions on Exophase

Check out all the trophies and descriptions here!

Question for Shawn: The trophy icon for the "Just take a pinch" trophy in the above link is all white. Is that a mistake on the site or did you do that on purpose?

Also, it seems you took some time in implementing trophies in the game. Were they part of the design process early on or did the implementation come about later in development?
 

NJShadow

Member
Thank you so much Shawn, I really do appreciate it! And I do appreciate the response as well, it'll be interesting to consider those influences as I'm playing, as well as see what parallels I can draw to experiences in my own life. (This was before I started the game.)

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Basically, my tweets are playing out just how I feel about this game. I could be putting up so much more, but I'm pacing myself for the sake of my followers, lol.

Having played DYAD in big chunks over several hours, I'm absolutely blown away. This has to be one of the most fun games I have ever played. You were absolutely right about there being no one particular thing or idea that you wanted people to walk away with. This game really delivers on just about every level, and it's clear that a tremendous amount of thought and care has gone into every little detail of this gem. I'm playing in total darkness with a pair of Sony MDR-7506's on... it's like you're in another world. Bravo sir, bravo.

Thanks again!
 

ShawnMcGrath

Dyad Developer
Thanks ;) I'm really glad you like it!
Thank you so much Shawn, I really do appreciate it! And I do appreciate the response as well, it'll be interesting to consider those influences as I'm playing, as well as see what parallels I can draw to experiences in my own life. (This was before I started the game.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, my tweets are playing out just how I feel about this game. I could be putting up so much more, but I'm pacing myself for the sake of my followers, lol.

Having played DYAD in big chunks over several hours, I'm absolutely blown away. This has to be one of the most fun games I have ever played. You were absolutely right about there being no one particular thing or idea that you wanted people to walk away with. This game really delivers on just about every level, and it's clear that a tremendous amount of thought and care has gone into every little detail of this gem. I'm playing in total darkness with a pair of Sony MDR-7506's on... it's like you're in another world. Bravo sir, bravo.

Thanks again!
 
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