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Ellie is the main playable character in The Last of Us: Part II
- Thread starter Corpsepyre
- Start date
gkovacs314
Banned
Ubisoft is following marketing, it is executive forced too. I agree.
Actually, I'm a latina female.
You are assuming things of me because you don't agree with my opinion.
Nah
Gotta give people hope first
Give him a ton of close calls
Then he gets shot at the end
They should really linger on his death, get their mileage's worth
and then... death
Oh that would be terrible if they didn't let the character kill him! I want to control the moment.
I appreciate you exposing yourself to an unfamiliar phrase and Urban Dictionary (that site can be a hell hole sometimes lol just look up a common name)
Haha, that would be a seriously redemptive scene, esp for her. Like RDR's ending turned to 11.
I love and hate UD in equal measure. Deffo got lucky with that clean, useful definition...
Jfc
I really hope that it isn't Ellie who kills him
because
She fucking knows he is lying at the end of the game, she accepts it anyway
The more i think about it I hope Naughty Dog does not do anything overly predictable. One of the things i loved about the Last of Us was how unexpected that ending was my whole first run through the game i was wondering when will the moment come when inevitably one of them dies. I was surprised to learn this was not the case. So in that sense i hope we get something similar in this game where they do something nobody expects.
Just because she accepted it in that moment doesnt mean it wont fester into resentment later or due to new circumstances.
I don't think Joel acted selfish.
Ellie was 14 Years old. And the decision she is forced to make is basically "We have to kill you to save the world. and that is the only way, if you refuse everyone is going to die. So is it OK to kill you? You would save the whole world!"
Your'e basically putting the whole weight of the world on the shoulders of a 14 year old. Yes she agreed to do it, but is that really a decision she should even make?
(Also how big are the chances that this will actually work? How big are the ones that she will be killed for nothing....ooops that didn't work, sorry)
Ellie agreed to do it, but as i said she was 14 yeat old girl with the weight of the world on her shoulders. Did she really agree because she wanted to do it, or does she just feel that she has to do it, because of all that weight.
Joel feeling like a father to her at this time decides that this decision is to big for her to make now. He as a parent takes that weight of her and makes that decision for her. Just like countless parents all over the world decide things for their 14 year old kids every day.
Yes the stakes are higher here, and all the killings that Joel does in wake of that decision are something very different from the other decisions that i talked about, but then again, these things are a side effect of the world they are living in.
How many parents in the real world would you think would agree to kill their 14 year old child if that could be the cure for cancer and or other diseases? I don't think the number would be that high (certainly not 100:0). And even when the child thinks it should do it, wouldn't a lot of parents say still no, and force the child to at least wait until it is an adult to make that decision? Yes cancer isn't an all killing desease that will kill the poulation in a short time, but i still think the decisions are not that different. Certainly as long as no one can 100 % guarantee an success with the operation/serum.
I just think it is a bit to easy to just paint it as a selfish decision by Joel.
As for the end, i always thought about it as if Ellie deep inside her knew what happened, but Joel doesn't tell her, again to not put this also on her. When Ellie says OK she basically accepts that and at least for now, she is a child/teenager and Joel her father.
Ellie was 14 Years old. And the decision she is forced to make is basically "We have to kill you to save the world. and that is the only way, if you refuse everyone is going to die. So is it OK to kill you? You would save the whole world!"
Your'e basically putting the whole weight of the world on the shoulders of a 14 year old. Yes she agreed to do it, but is that really a decision she should even make?
(Also how big are the chances that this will actually work? How big are the ones that she will be killed for nothing....ooops that didn't work, sorry)
Ellie agreed to do it, but as i said she was 14 yeat old girl with the weight of the world on her shoulders. Did she really agree because she wanted to do it, or does she just feel that she has to do it, because of all that weight.
Joel feeling like a father to her at this time decides that this decision is to big for her to make now. He as a parent takes that weight of her and makes that decision for her. Just like countless parents all over the world decide things for their 14 year old kids every day.
Yes the stakes are higher here, and all the killings that Joel does in wake of that decision are something very different from the other decisions that i talked about, but then again, these things are a side effect of the world they are living in.
How many parents in the real world would you think would agree to kill their 14 year old child if that could be the cure for cancer and or other diseases? I don't think the number would be that high (certainly not 100:0). And even when the child thinks it should do it, wouldn't a lot of parents say still no, and force the child to at least wait until it is an adult to make that decision? Yes cancer isn't an all killing desease that will kill the poulation in a short time, but i still think the decisions are not that different. Certainly as long as no one can 100 % guarantee an success with the operation/serum.
I just think it is a bit to easy to just paint it as a selfish decision by Joel.
As for the end, i always thought about it as if Ellie deep inside her knew what happened, but Joel doesn't tell her, again to not put this also on her. When Ellie says OK she basically accepts that and at least for now, she is a child/teenager and Joel her father.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
I think most people expected this from the sequel given the ending of the previous game.
I personally wish that she were older. Like the boss in Metal Gear Solid 3.
I didn't assume anything. Sorry if you thought that.
Basically I don't think it's healthy or fair to criticise something unusual when we haven't been scrutinising or criticising the pre-established "norm". That was my point. You say you have scrutinised that, too, though, so we're on the same page.
toddhunter
Member
Some of my best friends are female protagonists in video games.
For all we know Ellie just wants to kill a heap of defenceless people because she grew up to be a bit of a psychopath.
Plot twist is Joel needs to kill her in the end.
NHarmonic.
Member
This day has been quite legendary.
I have a lot of hope for Naughty Dog, loved the teaser.
I have a lot of hope for Naughty Dog, loved the teaser.
I don't see that happening because it would be really stupid
I mean, having Ellie kill him would just elicit too much annoyance. Having some asshole main villain do it on the other hand? Nothing but rage and sadness.
Ha that would be a twist I wouldnt have thought of.
SolidChamp
Banned
I'm convinced Joel will die right from the get-go of this.
It would be in keeping with the heavy use of parallel imagery from the first game (there's a fantastic video essay on YouTube). A father loses his daughter, a "daughter" loses her father figure.
Having Joel alive and in a state of deterioration does not create a motivational pull. Consider the trailer. We don't see Joel's face. His silhouette is darkened. Ellie doesn't look at him. She's shaking. Clearly her cuts and scrapes indicate she just went on the warpath. Joel asks her "You sure you want to go ahead with his kiddo?" (I think that's what he said, but maybe not exactly) That's quite possibly an extension of her conscience talking. Joel manifests himself as her "ghost" after being murdered. What do we know about Joel? He's a man who has drawn the ire of many, many people as a result of his no mercy nature. So maybe he's finally gotten what's coming to him? Ellie says "I'm going to kill every last one of them". Her playing his guitar could indicate she's "honoring" Joel's memory while swearing revenge.
A hardened, out-for-revenge Ellie at 19 years old? For a straight sequel, I guess that's as good as it gets. What I really wanted was a prequel with Joel's time in the aftermath of the pandemic and his daughter's death, and his years spent surviving with his brother (who suggested something nightmarish).
I agree that it is risky to tread the Ellie/Joel ground again. Which is why I am 100% certain that Joel is dead this time around. Again, parallel imagery. But a "coming-of-age" story for Ellie, warped and distorted by the violent world she lives in, makes sense going forward. I just felt like there was a definitive close to things in TLOU and I liked the open-ended nature of being able to wonder about where they would go from there. I don't know if I like that I'm getting the answer. I'm actually not feeling anything for it one way or the other. I'm not hyped, but I'm also not adversed to the idea.
The other way this can be looked at, if Joel truly is dead and manifests as a part of Ellie's conscience, is that Ellie effectively has become Joel. This would bring Joel's selfishness to completion, as the extent of his damage is something we get to examine.
I'm pretty much 100% convinced everything I've said will be the case. We see so much of Joel in Ellie. And Troy Baker's character will "be there", in the way that The Joker was there in Arkham Knight.
Maybe Ellie grows up to hate what she's become, and in some indirect way blames Joel because he robbed her of that all-important "choice" at the end of the first game. She probably feels like she wasn't supposed to continue living, and her track record of watching everyone she's ever cared about die continues. So she's totally fucked up here. This is some dark territory Druckmann is probably covering with this one. I see the potential in telling this story.
TL;DR Ellie becomes Joel.
It would be in keeping with the heavy use of parallel imagery from the first game (there's a fantastic video essay on YouTube). A father loses his daughter, a "daughter" loses her father figure.
Having Joel alive and in a state of deterioration does not create a motivational pull. Consider the trailer. We don't see Joel's face. His silhouette is darkened. Ellie doesn't look at him. She's shaking. Clearly her cuts and scrapes indicate she just went on the warpath. Joel asks her "You sure you want to go ahead with his kiddo?" (I think that's what he said, but maybe not exactly) That's quite possibly an extension of her conscience talking. Joel manifests himself as her "ghost" after being murdered. What do we know about Joel? He's a man who has drawn the ire of many, many people as a result of his no mercy nature. So maybe he's finally gotten what's coming to him? Ellie says "I'm going to kill every last one of them". Her playing his guitar could indicate she's "honoring" Joel's memory while swearing revenge.
A hardened, out-for-revenge Ellie at 19 years old? For a straight sequel, I guess that's as good as it gets. What I really wanted was a prequel with Joel's time in the aftermath of the pandemic and his daughter's death, and his years spent surviving with his brother (who suggested something nightmarish).
I agree that it is risky to tread the Ellie/Joel ground again. Which is why I am 100% certain that Joel is dead this time around. Again, parallel imagery. But a "coming-of-age" story for Ellie, warped and distorted by the violent world she lives in, makes sense going forward. I just felt like there was a definitive close to things in TLOU and I liked the open-ended nature of being able to wonder about where they would go from there. I don't know if I like that I'm getting the answer. I'm actually not feeling anything for it one way or the other. I'm not hyped, but I'm also not adversed to the idea.
The other way this can be looked at, if Joel truly is dead and manifests as a part of Ellie's conscience, is that Ellie effectively has become Joel. This would bring Joel's selfishness to completion, as the extent of his damage is something we get to examine.
I'm pretty much 100% convinced everything I've said will be the case. We see so much of Joel in Ellie. And Troy Baker's character will "be there", in the way that The Joker was there in Arkham Knight.
Maybe Ellie grows up to hate what she's become, and in some indirect way blames Joel because he robbed her of that all-important "choice" at the end of the first game. She probably feels like she wasn't supposed to continue living, and her track record of watching everyone she's ever cared about die continues. So she's totally fucked up here. This is some dark territory Druckmann is probably covering with this one. I see the potential in telling this story.
TL;DR Ellie becomes Joel.
Sorry going to have to answer in spoilers here, due to well you know
Right but that acceptance also brings with it an aspect of complicity. By accepting it she took on some measure of responsibility for it. If she kills Joel over it then she is a really shitty person.
Which is not an improbable thing to happen considering the universe it is set in but it is at odds with her role of savior/hope
Which is not an improbable thing to happen considering the universe it is set in but it is at odds with her role of savior/hope
DAREALGUMMY
Member
Who else does she have?
ForsakenLotus
Member
Its a fine line they will have to walk, because I think a lot of people will view it as a cop out if Joel and Ellie are alive at the end of Part II. I feel like many people want Ellie to kill Joel, but honestly I think that could easily come off poorly and predictable. It's an interesting idea, and I'm open to many things Naughty Dog might do, but I'd rather see a different conclusion to their relationship.
But, good storytelling is still good storytelling even if it doesn't surprise you.
Clinton514
Member
So basically, Joel dies of some sort of super bug.
Ellie's character in the first was enjoyable but let's hope she's a bit brighter this time around.
Ellie's character in the first was enjoyable but let's hope she's a bit brighter this time around.
Emotional intro scene...
excelsiorlef
Member
In no way was this forced. Like your point is nonsense to begin with but The Last of Us might actually be the worst example to use to try to make it.
It's cool was already laughed at for having an opinion on something that was left up for interpretation. I enjoy the debate over that part but eh...I'm moving on from that specific argument.
Joel is a shitty person. I see no reason why Ellie couldnt also become a shitty person. Hell playing a terrible person makes it easier to reconcile murdering tons of people like the game will no doubt entail.
Ellie didn't even know they were going to kill her. She had all the pressure, but no idea they were going to kill her.
She very well could grow into a shitty person. I feel it would be a huge mistake for what happens at the end of the first game to be the catalyst for it.
I didn't laugh at you, and even when i quoted you the response was at a lot of people in this thread with similar posts, just my response to that, but i remove you quote to make it more general.
Thebeardofknowledge
Banned
See, i dont get that. He betrayed Ellie, but in no "I'll blow your brains out, Joel!" way. It wouldn't make any sense at all for the relationship.
Not you. Some others I was talking about it with. Just thought it was shitty of some peeps to post that as if it were explained to us with no doubt left.
yeah i paraphrased a lot, but i thought that Ellie knew that was the most likely outcome. But that was just me, the game certainly didn't tell us.
I'm thinking more if they built up over Part II how much she resented him for it and started to face just how manipulative he had been. Then a snap point where he starts on his shit again, maybe even with someone else, and she snaps.
Just spitballing, but i certainly don't mean straight after Part I she kills him. And certainly not an aggressive attack scene, it would be a more emotional "what did you do to me" scene.
It's clear from the teaser that she is damaged as fuck.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
If you didn't assume TLOU 2 would have you play as Ellie, I don't know what to say. The same way it was obvious even before it was revealed that Emily would be the main playable character in Dishonored 2. In no way is it forced in either case.
Lol "even being a feminist" - your statement is bonkers and totally based on baseless assumption. The best part of LoU was when you played as Ellie in the winter. When did it become PC to have a protagonist that represents one half of the flipping world?
Yabberwocky
Member
...don't really know where to start with any of this, but the phrase 'works against the females' says it all, honestly.
I would like to go to this wonderful universe where in meetings people will only accept female leads.
Subtervotion
Member
You could certainly argue it. But the game never outright says it. So it's really all up to interpretation. It's one of the greatest strengths of the games story tbh.
Yeah I'm guessing the thought at least ran through her mind walking through the city to get to the hospital. They just never sat down and told her or gave her the option.
What doe it was forced even mean
Like were they making The Last of Us 2 where you played as Gruff McGrizzlecover and then the president of Sony said no it must be about Ellie to appease the SJW crowd who are apparently the biggest demographic in gaming now!
Or like did the heads of the game go hey lets make the sequel about Ellie because it makes sense from a story point of view and is what most people would expect anyway
Like were they making The Last of Us 2 where you played as Gruff McGrizzlecover and then the president of Sony said no it must be about Ellie to appease the SJW crowd who are apparently the biggest demographic in gaming now!
Or like did the heads of the game go hey lets make the sequel about Ellie because it makes sense from a story point of view and is what most people would expect anyway
Has Naughty dog rumored to be SJW echo chamber? Sure. Is this a Brainwashed SJW choice? Doubtful. Ellie is a great choice. She was fun to play,great story and I want to See her get the choice to kill Joel or sack myself for the greater good when/if she finds out about the end of TLOU. It will be a killer scene. It may be a deathbed style confession from him for extra feels. hype.
Also lol you've been here since 2013 and only have like 5 posts most being from this thread. Which one of you guys made an alt to complain about the "PC"?
Benzychenz
Member
Ellie makes me more interested in this than I would be otherwise.
Maybe I'll go back and trudge through the rest of the first game.
Maybe I'll go back and trudge through the rest of the first game.
Shit, if you didn't finish the first game don't read this thread.
It certainly stops being a trudge around the half way point at least.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
I said I was disappointed that we can't play as Joel - he's expressing the same thing.
I've done exactly that. It's not at all because she's a female character - I've explained that I don't like her attitude, her demeanor and I don't like her as a character or even her design - I just don't gel with her.
Clever...
CosmicQueso
Member
As someone who has been a part of hundreds of game development planning and budgeting meetings over the past 12+ years believe me when I tell you that this post, more than any post that has come before it, is the biggest pile of horseshit ever shoveled onto the eyeballs of the members of NeoGAF.
SJW derogatory word used by the alt right to harass anyone who thinks racist/sexist jokes aren't funny
Originally used to mock the weirder fringes of tumblr but now used to attack anyone who thinks minorities might be human.