Support NeoGAF

[Already Torn]

Wanting to play as Joel is different then having a problem with playing as Ellie.

You're right, but I don't think the people complaining about "male feminism" really care about Joel as a character.

Uh, watch the reveal trailer?

Spoiler

He's right there in the trailer, and Ellie talks to him, obviously angry at someone or something that isn't him, so at that point in the story he's still her friend/ally at least. Joel is not only in the game, there is zero evidence that he'll die so far.

And I'm sure The Last Guardian has a happy ending too

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Your life must be very hard if you can only relate to male characters of your age.

Very mature. You,...got me?

I just said that I'm playing Final Fantasy XV and the main character is a twenty-year-old male. I also enjoy the Tomb Raider games, where you play as a 20-ish/30 year-old female. I'm not sexist - it's not about that in any form - I just don't like Ellie as a character.

If there was a new Grand Theft Auto game and the main character was a convicted rapist that breaks out of jail and does Grand Theft Auto things - I wouldn't play it because I think it would be disgusting and weird to play as a character that possesses those qualities. Does that make any sense to anyone?

 

[Twilight Princess]

YAAAAS

 

[Alex_Mexico]

As expected. They will represent Joel as the weaker one in need of saving this time, or in part 3.

I think Ellie saved Joel's life more times in TLoU than Joel did to Ellie.

 

[Kaz42]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNuLhznkEAg

why can't we have a choice playing as a male or a female?

Why should devs do that? because you're uncomfortable playing as a female?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Very mature. You,...got me?

I just said that I'm playing Final Fantasy XV and the main character is a twenty-year-old male. I also enjoy the Tomb Raider games, where you play as a 20-ish/30 year-old female. I'm not sexist - it's not about that in any form - I just don't like Ellie as a character.

You specifically pointed to Ellie's gender and age as part of why you would not enjoy playing as her. Nice try.

If there was a new Grand Theft Auto game and the main character was a convicted rapist that breaks out of jail and does Grand Theft Auto things - I wouldn't play it because I think it would be disgusting and weird to play as a character that possess those qualities. Does that make any sense to anyone?

And now we see, being young and female is as off-putting as playing a convicted rapist. Oh boy.

 

[Reedirect]

I can't believe we're finally getting a AAA game with an unavoidable LGBT lead.

What a time to be alive.

That's pretty cool. Though it sucks that basically only a studio of Naughty Dog's position can make it happen without facing some kind of stopping power from the publisher.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Neogaf has never been wrong before about character deaths in the last couple Naughty Dog games so yeah, it's pretty much confirmed that Joel dies. ;(

 

[Hunter S.]

??? Did you not play the first game? She saved his ass plenty.

It was mostly about a father daughter relationship where he got a 2nd chance to be a dad. Now she will probably become the protector just as real life forces this constant cycling and repeating of relationship roles in humans.

Edit: joel probably won't be useless just the sidekick and weaker one that Eli clearly was in the first one.

 

[Lime]

I wish the games industry and its developers wouldn't cultivate an environment where bigoted insecure people who can't stand women feel welcome.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNuLhznkEAg

why can't we have a choice playing as a male or a female? You want to have an empowering female lead you can play Tomb raider. Half the reason people loved The last of us is because of the visceral combat of playing as joel. Which btw was the main character.

Are you for real? TLoU was clearly never for you.

And anything from Breitbart is banned on this site. If advice you to not link more bullshit from Milo. Jesus.

Ellie was the co-star and most people agrees that the best part of the entire game was the section where 95% of it you play as Ellie: Winter. Also don't forget the DLC AND the comic book centered around her.

Games have switched main characters between sequels before. Tlou2 won't be the last one either. See: Resident Evil series.

 

[Squalor]

So we're gonna make the only likable character in the first game completely unlikable like Joel in the second?

Good thing likability is completely irrelevant in a great piece of media.

 

[phanphare]

Very mature. You,...got me?

I just said that I'm playing Final Fantasy XV and the main character is a twenty-year-old male. I also enjoy the Tomb Raider games, where you play as a 20-ish/30 year-old female. I'm not sexist - it's not about that in any form - I just don't like Ellie as a character.

If there was a new Grand Theft Auto game and the main character was a convicted rapist that breaks out of jail and does Grand Theft Auto things - I wouldn't play it because I think it would be disgusting and weird to play as a character that possesses those qualities. Does that make any sense to anyone?

what about playing as an animal or an alien? do you really only play games as 20-to-30-something humans?

what about shapes? is tetris a no no?

 

[Twilight Princess]

Lol people are complaining? Elle segments were the best parts of the first game.

 

[potatohead]

And then in the winter section BAM you play as Joel

Lmao awesome

what about playing as an animal or an alien? do you really only play games as 20-to-30-something humans?

what about shapes? is tetris a no no?

He has to pass up any of the phallic pieces so he's probably pretty bad at Tetris

 

[RurouniZel]

Motivations? His motivations were entirely self serving, just like Kratos. Their situations actually have a lot of paralells. They both had family murdered, and it turned them into monsters. Yes, Joel had to kill people to survive, but he did so in unnecessarily brutal ways, like Kratos. Not only that, but he ALWAYS acted in a way that was self serving, again like Kratos. The end of the game, he made his way through the laboratory, going through every one, stopping at nothing to get what he wanted, even though it meant fucking up a chance to help heal humanity, all because he couldn't cope with the loss of his daughter and needed Ellie to fill that roll (you can again draw parallels to Kratos in GOW III trying to protect Pandora).

Unlike Kratos, in the end Joel did what he did throughout the entire game, and acted in ways that only benefited him, while the K man "killed" himself and gave hope back to humanity. And here we are in a world where everyone praises the character of Joel when he is as subtle as a flying brick and as deep as a kiddie pool. Great performance by Troy Baker though.

Agreed, 'twas my primary problem with TLoU, Joel is a one-note character with zero subtly. The comparison to Kratos is one I had not thought of, but is actually quite apt.

 

[Kaz42]

If there was a new Grand Theft Auto game and the main character was a convicted rapist that breaks out of jail and does Grand Theft Auto things - I wouldn't play it because I think it would be disgusting and weird to play as a character that possesses those qualities. Does that make any sense to anyone?

What about Trevor? It was heavily implied he was a cannibal, how'd you feel about playing as him? Plus there was that scene where he slaughtered that guy's cousin and his fiance and comes out of the room covered in their blood.

 

[John Kowalski]

Motivations? His motivations were entirely self serving, just like Kratos. Their situations actually have a lot of paralells. They both had family murdered, and it turned them into monsters. Yes, Joel had to kill people to survive, but he did so in unnecessarily brutal ways, like Kratos. Not only that, but he ALWAYS acted in a way that was self serving, again like Kratos. The end of the game, he made his way through the laboratory, going through every one, stopping at nothing to get what he wanted, even though it meant fucking up a chance to help heal humanity, all because he couldn't cope with the loss of his daughter and needed Ellie to fill that roll (you can again draw parallels to Kratos in GOW III trying to protect Pandora).

Unlike Kratos, in the end Joel did what he did throughout the entire game, and acted in ways that only benefited him, while the K man "killed" himself and gave hope back to humanity. And here we are in a world where everyone praises the character of Joel when he is as subtle as a flying brick and as deep as a kiddie pool. Great performance by Troy Baker though.

His motivations were not just self serving, they were primarily about refusing to accept that his new world was worth caring about, and through the game accept that it was worth caring about. That's it. Healing humanity is a symbol for the kind of anthropocentrism the game is critical of, a desire for the great age of human prosperity, whereas much of the game is sympathetic to a world without the dominance of man. The only human place that's shown in a positive light is a tiny scrap of a community that lacks the grandiose greed and ambition of our own contemporary life.

Saving Ellie is a lot more about having accepted the death of his daughter than not, to love Ellie he first had to accept where she came from, life beyond his old life.

 

[firelogic]

So we're gonna make the only likable character in the first game completely unlikable like Joel in the second?

Huh? I loved Joel in the first game.

 

[semiconscious]

I can't believe we're finally getting a AAA game with an unavoidable LGBT lead.

What a time to be alive.

not that i have any problem with this (if indeed true), but i'm not jumping to any conclusions re: ellie's (or anyone else's) sexual preferences based on a single encounter ...

 

[MartyStu]

Saw this coming. I like it.

*insert grip strength joke here*

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Motivations? His motivations were entirely self serving, just like Kratos. Their situations actually have a lot of paralells. They both had family murdered, and it turned them into monsters. Yes, Joel had to kill people to survive, but he did so in unnecessarily brutal ways, like Kratos. Not only that, but he ALWAYS acted in a way that was self serving, again like Kratos. The end of the game, he made his way through the laboratory, going through every one, stopping at nothing to get what he wanted, even though it meant fucking up a chance to help heal humanity, all because he couldn't cope with the loss of his daughter and needed Ellie to fill that roll (you can again draw parallels to Kratos in GOW III trying to protect Pandora).

Unlike Kratos, in the end Joel did what he did throughout the entire game, and acted in ways that only benefited him, while the K man "killed" himself and gave hope back to humanity. And here we are in a world where everyone praises the character of Joel when he is as subtle as a flying brick and as deep as a kiddie pool. Great performance by Troy Baker though.

I would acting in his best interest in a post apocalyptic world is a bad thing?

Him having a relationship with Tess shows that he can open up to people, just that his trust is hard to earn. The very fact that he traveled with Ellie after Tess died showed that he didn't only acted in pure self interest.

And really? We're going to act like the Fireflies who couldn't even take Ellie and brought her where they needed her can somehow save the humanity?

Agreed, 'twas my primary problem with TLoU, Joel is a one-note character with zero subtly. The comparison to Kratos is one I had not thought of, but is actually quite apt.

Joel one note?

His relationship with Ellie completely changed during the game, the dynamic with Tess and after she's gone changed the dynamic as well and showed that Joel can trust people.

Joel is anything but a "one note" character.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

You specifically pointed to Ellie's gender and age as part of why you would not enjoy playing as her. Nice try.


And now we see, being young and female is as off-putting as playing a convicted rapist. Oh boy.

If I said "Have a nice day" - what would you construe, twist and turn that phrase into?

You know, I would almost say that your post sounds like baiting - it also sounds like you're trying to incite an argument.

TOS - what's it for?

 

[Gbraga]

Awesome. Seemed obvious from the trailer, but great to have confirmation early on.

I hope it still plays more like The Last of Us than Uncharted 4 and apparently The Lost Legacy.

At least I can't think of any reason to remove scavenging and crafting mechanics, so that's a positive already.

Can't wait for the E3 2017 demo, and it's blackout after that.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

And he

Spoiler

ages 10 years in the game

- so?

I'm not a female, nor am I a teenager - so that makes me not relate to Ellie and makes me uninterested in playing as her. Noctis is a male - which I am also - but I'm not 20. But I love anime, fantasy games and action games, so therefore he's a very relatable, likeable character to me. Ellie is a whiny, stubborn, too-cool-for-school, grungy teenager that has a chip on her shoulder and if I played The Last of Us Part II, I'd be forced to only play as her.

That doesn't seem very interesting, fun, worthwhile or a good way to spend my entertainment time.

You know, I find this quite sad. There's more to relating than just gender or age, in fact the strongest things, and is holds especially true for TLoU, is never significantly reliant on these and its why TLoU was so universally appreciable.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

That's pretty cool. Though it sucks that basically only a studio of Naughty Dog's position can make it happen without facing some kind of stopping power from the publisher.

It does - but hopefully they can lead by example, and when TLOU2 becomes one of the best selling games of all time there'll be no excuse

Are you for real? TLoU was clearly never for you.

And anything from Breitbart is banned on this site. If advice you to not link more bullshit from Milo. Jesus.

Yeah, wtf LMAO

As if Ellie wasn't already playable in TLOU, and TR didn't already have "visceral" combat. Yikes.

 

[Mihos]

I would have preferred to have played as Ellie I the first one also, I usually choose the female characters on every single player game. Only problem I had with the first game was the stupid trophies and how many were tied to a tacked on multiplayer system.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

not that i have any problem with this (if indeed true), but i'm not jumping to any conclusions re: ellie's (or anyone else's) sexual preferences based on a single encounter ...

Straight from druckmann's mouth:

Actually our intention in writing (and the actors’ performances) is that they’re gay…

Gay.

 

[dankir]

Shit's about to get dark.

Shit was pretty dark in the first one.... I mean remember what she did to David?

 

[Gbraga]

I would have preferred to have played as Ellie I the first one also, I usually choose the female characters on every single player game. Only problem I had with the first game was the stupid trophies and how many were tied to a tacked on multiplayer system.

It's one of the best multiplayer games I've ever played. I wouldn't call that tacked on at all.

I thought it would be, too, but it's quite brilliant.

 

[Deadbeat]

Of course ellie is the main playable character since joel is dead. :^)

Spoiler

does anyone have the 4chan leak info? Thanks.

 

[Summer Haze]

I would have preferred to have played as Ellie I the first one also, I usually choose the female characters on every single player game. Only problem I had with the first game was the stupid trophies and how many were tied to a tacked on multiplayer system.

I can understand how it would seem that way given how popular the game is for it's SP portion...but it really isn't. It's easily one of my favourite MP games of all time, which makes me doubly excited for this game.

 

[Mihos]

It's one of the best multiplayer games I've ever played. I wouldn't call that tacked on at all.

I thought it would be, too, but it's quite brilliant.

I don't do multiplayer at all, so finishing the whole game on normal and only having 2 trophies to show,for it was a major turn off

 

[Crossing Eden]

Triggered.

Please tell me more about how me, a minority being able to empathize with seeing others constantly shafted in not only the games industry but society as a whole, just want to get laid, despite having a partner already. Please tell me more. Please go full GG so I can continue to laugh at you. This is Ellie's track record at age 14
Holding people hostage

Playing a grown ass man like a fiddle and breaking Hands from in prison:

Overpowering a grown ass man and chopping him to pieces:

Fighting her way past twenty dudes and brutally and efficiently killing twenty dudes including a combination of clickers and without a scratch:

Adept usage if not straight up mastery of multiple weapons after only a couple months of combat experience, including a bow and arrow and a shotgun, if you've ever held a shotgun you'd realize how insane it is that a 14 year old gun is using one efficiently:

Yet peeps are worried that a person who was this good at 14 isn't gonna provide enough visceral combat, when the trailer literally is just the aftermath of her killing a shit ton of people singlehandedly. Fuck outta here.

I can't believe we're finally getting a AAA game with an unavoidable LGBT lead.

What a time to be alive.

Jacob Frye is bisexual. >_>

 

[Valentus]

hate for joel?
hate for the fireflies?
hate for herself?

TELL US MORE MANGOD NEIL

 

[Shaanyboi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNuLhznkEAg

why can't we have a choice playing as a male or a female? You want to have an empowering female lead you can play Tomb raider. Half the reason people loved The last of us is because of the visceral combat of playing as joel. Which btw was the main character.

lol are you fucking serious with this

 

[John Kowalski]

Very mature. You,...got me?

I just said that I'm playing Final Fantasy XV and the main character is a twenty-year-old male. I also enjoy the Tomb Raider games, where you play as a 20-ish/30 year-old female. I'm not sexist - it's not about that in any form - I just don't like Ellie as a character.

If there was a new Grand Theft Auto game and the main character was a convicted rapist that breaks out of jail and does Grand Theft Auto things - I wouldn't play it because I think it would be disgusting and weird to play as a character that possesses those qualities. Does that make any sense to anyone?

I also think it's very mature, because it was maturity that taught me the value of making a real effort to relate to everyone, especially those living lives less privileged than my own.

 

[phanphare]

Please tell me more about how me, a minority being able to empathize with seeing others constantly shafted in not only the games industry but society as a whole, just want to get laid, despite having a partner already. Please tell me more. Please go full GG so I can continue to laugh at you. This is Ellie's track record at age 14
Holding people hostage

Playing a grown ass man like a fiddle and breaking Hands from in prison:

Overpowering a grown ass man and chopping him to pieces:

Fighting her way past twenty dudes and brutally and efficiently killing twenty dudes including a combination of clickers and without a scratch:

Adept usage if not straight up mastery of multiple weapons after only a couple months of combat experience, including a bow and arrow and a shotgun, if you've ever held a shotgun you'd realize how insane it is that a 14 year old gun is using one efficiently:


Yet peeps are worried that a person who was this good at 14 isn't gonna provide enough visceral combat, when the trailer literally is just the aftermath of her killing a shit ton of people singlehandedly. Fuck outta here.


Jacob Frye is bisexual. >_>

it's not really visceral if she doesn't have a beard

them's the rules

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

So we're gonna make the only likable character in the first game completely unlikable like Joel in the second?

So you're not gonna come back and explain this gem, are you.

 

[jett]

With Joel being a ghost companion, this is a genius way of not having to fix the buddy AI.

Well played ND, well played indeed.

Druckmann with the next-level fixes

 

[Samuraicop]

I would throw money to pre-order right now

 

[wig]

A main female lead on a AAA game. Oh the comments will be delicious.

EDIT: People seem to be misinterpreting my post.

There will be lots of crying about the fact that its a female lead, is what I meant. I don't get it either, but there will.

I saw comments at YouTube asking if you'd still be able to play as Nate in the Chloe DLC and that you should have the option to play as male or female. Lollllll.

 

[hank_tree]

Uh, watch the reveal trailer?

Spoiler

He's right there in the trailer, and Ellie talks to him, obviously angry at someone or something that isn't him, so at that point in the story he's still her friend/ally at least. Joel is not only in the game, there is zero evidence that he'll die so far.

Unless he's in her imagination and the game is Ellie getting revenge for the death of Joel.

 

[Crossing Eden]

it's not really visceral if she doesn't have a beard

them's the rules

Yea I guess males can only relate if she's 40 specifically and gruff, but can somehow relate to a motherfucking anime schlock prince who dresses like a 13 year old's idea of cool while he chases his boring as hell childhood friend pen pal who has no personality.

 

[WITHE1982]

I'm a 30 year old male and the notion of playing as a teenage girl is appealing because of how appealing Ellie was as a character.

Amen. Ellie was a fantastic character, even more so than Joel. I'm psyched to be playing as her again, she's a complete bad ass.

With the uncharted DLC, horizon and now TLOU it seems the age of the kick ass female lead is upon up again and I think it's fantastic.

 

[Hunter S.]

This and Tomb Raider is one of the few games I prefer to have the main character as female. Sony sure seems to be making a trend of female characters taking the lead that I can deal with, but I do not prefer it by any means in violent games about lethal undertakings. As far as I have seen war and violence is usually committed by men..

 

[HStallion]

Very mature. You,...got me?

I just said that I'm playing Final Fantasy XV and the main character is a twenty-year-old male. I also enjoy the Tomb Raider games, where you play as a 20-ish/30 year-old female. I'm not sexist - it's not about that in any form - I just don't like Ellie as a character.

If there was a new Grand Theft Auto game and the main character was a convicted rapist that breaks out of jail and does Grand Theft Auto things - I wouldn't play it because I think it would be disgusting and weird to play as a character that possesses those qualities. Does that make any sense to anyone?

Did you play GTAV?

 

[Fakeknowledge]

I've been saying the only TLoU sequel i would be interested in would be one set not long after the first with Ellie as the main character, so this is all good news for me.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

Might be a minor thing, but I want the ability to drag and hide bodies (like MGS2)

I also don't want a lot of those water puzzle games from the first game.

 

[DangerMouse]

Exactly what the sequel needed to be based on imo

Yup, was hoping for main Ellie.