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Enough is enough, Capcom: It's time to marry Monster Hunter and Dragon's Dogma

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Capcom has been a mess for years.

Years of trying to transform Resident Evil into a series with the mainstream appeal of an Activision or EA blockbuster. Years of experimenting with every pricing model known to man, from plain ass DLC to on-disk DLC to F2P to Early Access. Years of mediocre-to-bad spinoffs for every series. Years of cancelled (mostly Megaman related) projects and expensive vaporware (anyone remember Deep Down and it’s new engine?).

And the ultimate golden goose has been under Capcom’s nose all along: Why not just take the name of their most popular franchise and marry it to an immensely overlooked gem that utterly destroys it from a gameplay perspective?

The combination of a juggernaut IP loaded with amazing creatures (Monster Hunter) with arguably the best non-Souls ARPG gameplay of last gen (Dragon’s Dogma) and world structure that is almost universally beloved would give Capcom the fuckoff Skyrim money they’ve been desperately seeking for ages.

Most importantly for those diehard fans of past MH games: they’ll always still be worth making in the classic format on handhelds. A big DD + MH hybrid is clearly a console/PC venture, and would be impossible to transfer to a commuter-friendly portable. It makes sense that Capcom would do both, securing the Japanese fanbase (who primarily play outside of the house and on public transportation) and the Western gaming hobbyists (who prefer lengthy, in-home odysseys).

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Let’s look at some key points:

-Again, from a simple sales perspective, Monster Hunter *anything* does well in Japan. Open world games like Skyrim and Fallout do well in all territories (both are huge in Japan), and even Dragon’s Dogma itself did quite well in the West for a new, totally singleplayer Japanese IP. The franchise fans would flock to this for the brand, the uninitiated would come because it’s an open world ARPG.

-Dragon’s Dogma is difficult and has deep, immensely satisfying combat that blends careful timing with Devil May Cry level responsiveness. Monster Hunter’s combat is clunky and it’s difficulty largely stems from cumbersome controls + obtuse pre-mission micromanagement. You’d catch the Dark Souls crowd (a series with strong worldwide popularity and acclaim) and character action fans based on fighting alone. And what Monster Hunter fan wouldn’t welcome the extra depth (imagine climbing onto a Diablos’s belly and hacking away DD-style!)?

-Dragon’s Dogma’s classes and skills + traditional leveling provide not only incredible differentiation in playstyles, but also a much more satisfying progression than Monster Hunter’s purely gear-based system. Compare playing a Warrior in DD to using two-handed swords in MH, right now only one of those is fun. But if we suddenly had fully fleshed-out skillsets and augments for all of the usual Monster Hunter weapons, the combat and character building would benefit immeasurably. The rewards for hunting monsters are also, somewhat ironically, far more tangible in DD thanks to traditional experience points and class discipline system.

-Dragon’s Dogma already lifts a lot of Monster Hunter’s best mechanics and rejects many of its worst. The upgrade systems are similar, giving specific rewards in battle for attacking certain parts of the beast’s body, while removing the annoying elements like monsters fleeing mid-fight (though chasing them on foot through an open world would be very cool) and weapon durability/sharpness. There’s a difference between a mechanic adding meaningful gameplay and creating annoying upkeep/busywork, DD was much better at differentiating between the two.

-People argue about the necessity of MH’s segmented world, mission-based structure and time limits, but I’m not seeing it. A new location means new guilds with new rules, and it would be immensely simple to justify the loss of the archaic mission structure and time restrictions in a larger, more populated world. Dragon’s Dogma Online already proved that Capcom is capable of creating diverse biomes populated with a variety of monsters that easily matches what we’ve come to expect from MH, while Dark Arisen proved they’re capable of crafting very challenging encounters without imposing extraneous limitations on the player.

-Open World, cooperative multiplayer on this scale would be an incredible feat. It doesn’t fit into the format of Bethesda or Bioware’s games, but it’s already a core component of MH and seemed like a missing feature in DD. For the huge swathes of gamers who lament the lack of co-op in every major open world RPG, or struggle with the unpredictability of Souls co-op, this would be a huge selling point.

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The only reason not to jump into a project like this is obviously the need for a high budget, but if graphics are kept as a lower priority (as they should be, DD’s PC release still looks pretty spectacular with the right ENB), and Capcom can make it without a severely bloated, RE6-sized team, then the returns will be tremendous. Hell, get Microsoft (Japanese gamers have demonstrated a willingness to buy consoles for a single game, plus PC would be a solid backup for the JP market) or Sony (but not Nintendo, they don't do as well in the very essential Western market) to bankroll a console version and put it on PC to boot, there’s literally no way they wouldn't jump at the opportunity for an exclusive MH.

Big projects are always a gamble, but this is a much smarter, safer gamble than anything Capcom has made in the past decade.

Thoughts?
 

Mediking

Member
I tried to get into Monster Hunter... I really tried... it's just not for me... but isn't there a spinoff coming that's more focused on story and RPG elements??? I'm hungry for that.
 

sn00zer

Member
I think Horizon is beating them to the punch if Xenoblade hasnt already. Capcom has been sitting on Monster Hunter console for way way too long, and its apparent that those creature designs could look absolutely incredible on current gen hardware, but they sat on their hands because the mobile version was doing well enough.

I think Horizon and Xenoblade will start a slew of "Giant monsters in giant open world" game which really only Xenoblade took advantage of for some reason.
 
How about they make a good Dragon's Dogma sequel first? This was the most disappointing Itsuno game I've played. However, the idea you present is sound. If Dragon's Dogma had the big enemy variety of MH, I would like it more. Of course they would need to change other things like healing, damage calculation and death for the game to be competent.
 

CONCH0BAR

Member
I'd be there day 1 for a Monster Hunter: The Dragon's Dogma spin-off (and not just because I love both series), but I don't think it should be done for the main Monster Hunter series. Not because it wouldn't be good, but because it would be too much of a departure.
 

LiK

Member
Monster Hunter needs to come to current gen consoles. i'm tired of that jaggy pixelated low poly mess on 3DS.
 

sn00zer

Member
Monster Hunter needs to come to current gen consoles. i'm tired of that jaggy pixelated low poly mess on 3DS.

Monster hunter has forever made me sad, because I LOVE the creature designs, but everything else about it especially being on handhelds has tuned me away from it.
 
-Dragon’s Dogma is difficult and has deep, immensely satisfying combat that blends careful timing with Devil May Cry level responsiveness. Monster Hunter’s combat is clunky and it’s difficulty largely stems from cumbersome controls + obtuse pre-mission micromanagement. You’d catch the Dark Souls crowd (a series with strong worldwide popularity and acclaim) and character action fans based on fighting alone. And what Monster Hunter fan wouldn’t welcome the extra depth (imagine climbing onto a Diablos’s belly and hacking away DD-style!)?

Fundamentally disagree that MH has clunky controls. Combat is paced slowly and every character action is purposeful and requires thought on the part of the player - it's what I love about the combat. 4U had a mounting mechanic already and Generations is keeping it.

That being said, more MH is always good.
 
I'd enjoy it if it was Dragon's Dogma's gameplay, but fighting Monster Hunter monsters, wearing Monster Hunter armour and using Monster Hunter weapons. If they took much more from Monster Hunter aside from co-op I probably wouldn't be interested.
 

Biltmore

Banned
Why would you blemish Dragon's Dogma with that Monster Hunter garbage?

This.

I can't stand Monster Hunter and the only thing combining the two games would accomplish is making a worse Dragon's Dogma. I'll take a straight up sequel, thanks.
 

perorist

Unconfirmed Member
Monster Hunter’s combat is clunky and it’s difficulty largely stems from cumbersome controls + obtuse pre-mission micromanagement. You’d catch the Dark Souls crowd (a series with strong worldwide popularity and acclaim) and character action fans based on fighting alone. And what Monster Hunter fan wouldn’t welcome the extra depth (imagine climbing onto a Diablos’s belly and hacking away DD-style!)?
I think this is just a misunderstanding of the mechanics at a deeper level. It's like being used to Devil May Cry games and then calling Dark Souls clunky. Dark Souls simply has a different set of rules than DMC where commitment to swinging a weapon and cancelling animations is far more restrictive. It's absolutely true that MH probably takes those restrictions farther than any other franchise comparatively, but it's still significantly deep within its own ruleset. Something like being able to climb on a Diablos' belly to stab it (which you can actually already do under certain conditions in 4U) isn't necessarily the kind of "depth" hardcore fans of MH combat would be looking for.

That said, I absolutely love DD and would be open to any new entries in either series
 

Boney

Banned
You lost me at your second paragraph, but regardless, who is this aimed at?
The Japanese? Why not make more handheld MH on a yearly basis. They "buy" consoles at an awful ratio compared to handhelds, and software doesn't fare that well either.
West? Why use the MH brand since it holds little to no value.

Seems like you want a new Dragon's Dogma but know they won't be making a new ambitious one. So deluding yourself that slapping the MH will get it made for some reason, when there's no real incentive for it.
 

Orayn

Member
Monster hunter has forever made me sad, because I LOVE the creature designs, but everything else about it especially being on handhelds has tuned me away from it.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but this is a common theme among people who act like it's "just common sense" for Monster Hunter to be overhauled. They like some very specific aspect of it or just the IDEA of hunting monsters but otherwise aren't involved in the series.
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
Changing an established franchises formula that much would result in a tidal wave of complaining. Look at Resident Evil all three times it shifted.
 

sn00zer

Member
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but this is a common theme among people who act like it's "just common sense" for Monster Hunter to be overhauled. They like some very specific aspect of it or just the IDEA of hunting monsters but otherwise aren't involved in the series.

Yeah I think so. A game where you go around hunting dragons sounds amazing and Horizon actually seems to be about that. Monster Hunter isnt really a hunting game at all.
 

Neff

Member
Why not just take the name of their most popular franchise and marry it to an immensely overlooked gem that utterly destroys it from a gameplay perspective?

RE is undoubtedly Capcom's most popular franchise.

Monster Hunter’s combat is clunky and it’s difficulty largely stems from cumbersome controls + obtuse pre-mission micromanagement.

But that's why MH fans love it. And last I heard, that series is doing ok.
 
You lost me at your second paragraph, but regardless, who is this aimed at?
The Japanese? Why not make more handheld MH on a yearly basis. They "buy" consoles at an awful ratio compared to handhelds, and software doesn't fare that well either.
West? Why use the MH brand since it holds little to no value.

Seems like you want a new Dragon's Dogma but know they won't be making a new ambitious one. So deluding yourself that slapping the MH will get it made for some reason, when there's no real incentive for it.

This.

A MH spin-off game that plays nothing like MH. Let's count how many games they can release before the sales fall off and Capcom manages to significantly harm the MH brand.
 

Ryuuga

Banned
Monster Hunter combat clunky?

Right...

Yeah, I'm all for new ideas with the series (loving the generations demo) but I hard checked-out once I read that part. Also I'm not going to bother with this thread, because it'll come down to people liking one thing therefore lets shit on this other.
 
Don't you touch my Monster Hunter! Make it HD and that's good enough for me. It's already good enough but I'd be happy with a better looking game.
 
You lost me at your second paragraph, but regardless, who is this aimed at?
The Japanese? Why not make more handheld MH on a yearly basis. They "buy" consoles at an awful ratio compared to handhelds, and software doesn't fare that well either.
West? Why use the MH brand since it holds little to no value.

Seems like you want a new Dragon's Dogma but know they won't be making a new ambitious one. So deluding yourself that slapping the MH will get it made for some reason, when there's no real incentive for it.

It's aimed at Japanese fans of Monster Hunter and Western fans of open world RPGs (Bethesda, Bioware, CD Projeckt, all of which sell incredibly well worldwide).

Japanese players will still support the handheld releases, but this would be a huge seller on PC and/or PS4. Japanese players will buy whatever platform has the franchises they're crazy about, MH would probably still be a system seller if you got it to run on an Xbox, and we know how poorly Microsoft does over there.

The West adores open world ARPGs. The Witcher 3 proved that, with enough quality and ambition, a franchise can go from niche to a immensely successful mega hit in a single entry.
 

Orayn

Member
Yeah anyone describing Monster Hunter as clunky hasn't played any significant amount of it. Makes it really hard to take the rest of the argument seriously.
 
I love both series but I wouldn't really be that interested in a marriage between the two, and if you think MH combat is clunky you haven't played it enough.

I AM sick of playing MH on the 3DS though, it looks like a hot jagged mess.
 

perorist

Unconfirmed Member
It's aimed at Japanese fans of Monster Hunter and Western fans of open world RPGs (Bethesda, Bioware, CD Projeckt, all of which sell incredibly well worldwide).

Japanese players will still support the handheld releases, but this would be a huge seller on PC and/or PS4. Japanese players will buy whatever platform has the franchises they're crazy about, MH would probably still be a system seller if you got it to run on an Xbox, and we know how poorly Microsoft does over there.

The West adores open world ARPGs. The Witcher 3 proved that, with enough quality and ambition, a franchise can go from niche to a immensely successful mega hit in a single entry.
Various iterations of Monster Hunter Online have already released on XBOX360, PC, PS3, WII U, and Vita over the years and have failed to do anywhere as well as the mainline franchise.
 

draetenth

Member
-Dragon’s Dogma is difficult and has deep, immensely satisfying combat that blends careful timing with Devil May Cry level responsiveness.

Never played MH so I can't really compare, but I suppose I wouldn't mind a combination game as long as it's solo. That said, was Dragon's Dogma really considered difficult? It seemed easy enough to me. It was pretty easy to get a good team or level up to beat anything. Only BBI 2.0 and Hellhounds (really fast and could easily stun-lock you if you weren't prepared) were much of a challenge after awhile.
 
Never played MH so I can't really compare, but I suppose I wouldn't mind a combination game as long as it's solo. That said, was Dragon's Dogma really considered difficult? It seemed easy enough to me. It was pretty easy to get a good team or level up to beat anything. Only BBI 2.0 and Hellhounds (really fast and could easily stun-lock you if you weren't prepared) were much of a challenge after awhile.

It wasn't really that difficult. And Hard mode in Dragon's Dogma wasn't balanced to provide a good challenge while still feeling fair/fun.
 
Yeah anyone describing Monster Hunter as clunky hasn't played any significant amount of it. Makes it really hard to take the rest of the argument seriously.

It definitely doesn't have the flow of Dark Souls or Dragon's Dogma. Partly because of technical limitations on handhelds, but there's still a very clear difference.

This is coming from someone who plays these types of games almost exclusively. I'd never say "Dark Souls should have DD's combat system" because it very different, yet equally competent mechanically. Most importantly, I don't ever feel like Souls combat is lacking, or that anyone has "done it better" in a similar game.

Monster Hunter's relationship with Dragon's Dogma is very different. I can't go back to Tri without feeling like DD was very clearly an iterative step up on this exact system. When I compare MH weapons to their parallel classes in DD, the DD classes always feel better to play.

Various iterations of Monster Hunter Online have already released on XBOX360, PC, PS3, WII U, and Vita over the years and have failed to do anywhere as well as the mainline franchise.

Which is sort of like Elder Scrolls Online not doing as well as Skyrim/Fallout 4. An MMO spinoff isn't going to garner immense support, but it's also much cheaper to make. And it must have done decently (or have been extremely cheap) for Capcom to port it so much.

Also, not that it adds to either argument, but Dragon's Dogma Online did pretty well if I recall correctly.
 
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