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Enough is enough, Capcom: It's time to marry Monster Hunter and Dragon's Dogma
- Thread starter Emperor_Uriel
- Start date
Primethius
Banned
In a thread about MH and Dragon's Dogma too.
Two games that are pretty much top of thier genre.
I'd love to see their take on this and I do like Dragon's Dogma but after recently playing it again on the PC for a good 20 or so hours again, there is a lot of stuff I don't like about DD that I wouldn't want in MH.
Something I really like about MH is how upfront and easy it is to get into a hunt and progress. I don't want to run around forever looking for a monster like in Dragon's Dogma. I think that's something that really drags DD down in the long-run. I like the open-world, I like the combat, but I hate how long it takes to get everywhere. I know they added an infinite ferrystone thing but it only gets you between select points.
DD also has a lot of bad busy work too. Your lantern going out when you go in water, or running out of fuel. It's cool in a novel way at first but definitely gets annoying. Also inventory management is worse in DD. Most people will want to pick up a lot of stuff but of course it adds to your weight, which makes you incrementally slower/heavier instead of other games where once you hit a limit, then you are encumbered. I think this is cool and unique but it does get annoying to have to give your pawns all your materials you gathered pretty often.
I mean, if they added multiplayer to DD, I'm sure those small complaints would be a lot more tolerable.
Speaking of which, did anyone try and like that F2P DD online?
Something I really like about MH is how upfront and easy it is to get into a hunt and progress. I don't want to run around forever looking for a monster like in Dragon's Dogma. I think that's something that really drags DD down in the long-run. I like the open-world, I like the combat, but I hate how long it takes to get everywhere. I know they added an infinite ferrystone thing but it only gets you between select points.
DD also has a lot of bad busy work too. Your lantern going out when you go in water, or running out of fuel. It's cool in a novel way at first but definitely gets annoying. Also inventory management is worse in DD. Most people will want to pick up a lot of stuff but of course it adds to your weight, which makes you incrementally slower/heavier instead of other games where once you hit a limit, then you are encumbered. I think this is cool and unique but it does get annoying to have to give your pawns all your materials you gathered pretty often.
I mean, if they added multiplayer to DD, I'm sure those small complaints would be a lot more tolerable.
Speaking of which, did anyone try and like that F2P DD online?
The problem with the premise of this thread though is that you're coming from a preconception that MH combat is clunky/bad/not what fans want based on your own experience, which clearly is contrary to reality based on the replies here. In fact, personally I would say MH has far more depth than DD in terms of combat at its deepest level. The primary aspect of MH that you seem to want to include in this "marriage" is its brand appeal, but there's really no point if actual MH fans aren't interested in those DD-esque changes.
You can make the game you're describing in the OP just as easily without using the MH branding and if it's good, it will sell. Adding MH into the mix as a way to appeal to the existing MH fanbase/Japan isn't going to do anything if the gameplay isn't what they expect, no matter how much you personally dislike it.
MegaMelon
Member
You come across as someone who likes Dragons Dogma and not monster hunter who wants this fusion purely do dragons dogma can leech off of the monster hunter name. Now I have nothing against Dragons Dogma but when your post calls monster hunter combat clunky then clearly it's not for you which is fine.
So why you proceed to say the greatsword class isn't fun in monster hunter so they should c+p the dragons dogma equivalent instead is baffling. If someone wants to play the greatsword class for mh they'll play mh not dragons dogma. And the reverse is also true.
Honestly look at your post and tell me how I'm not supposed to get the impression that you want a monster hunter game with little monster hunter and nearly everything dragons dogma? I'm glad the MH devs know what works and they're sticking to it. I'd kill for a console mainline MH game but even if it stayed on handhelds I'd still love it all the same. This however sounds awful and would probably discourage me from playing games from either franchise.
So why you proceed to say the greatsword class isn't fun in monster hunter so they should c+p the dragons dogma equivalent instead is baffling. If someone wants to play the greatsword class for mh they'll play mh not dragons dogma. And the reverse is also true.
Honestly look at your post and tell me how I'm not supposed to get the impression that you want a monster hunter game with little monster hunter and nearly everything dragons dogma? I'm glad the MH devs know what works and they're sticking to it. I'd kill for a console mainline MH game but even if it stayed on handhelds I'd still love it all the same. This however sounds awful and would probably discourage me from playing games from either franchise.
There is that one issue of MS making a game that's an open world ARPG like Dragon's Dogma, in which you also hunt giant sized native wildlife, kinda like monster hunter.
Except the pawn system is now a personal Dragon.
I think what he wants is a Dragon's Dogma game that has the amount of different big monsters than a Monster Hunter game, and giving bigger importance to co-op and hunts.
pretty done
Member
It's time to put Monster Hunter on actual gaming platforms people play outside of Japan.
Dragons Dogma is w/e
Dragons Dogma is w/e
Glass Rebel
Member
Thread premise was flawed from the outset when OP called MH combat clunky.
Maintenance
Member
Nah OP, you just want MH name on DD to sell more. I'd rather play MH instead.
MH HAS been on platforms that ppl play on in the west, and it sold shit.
And 1 million+ people actually do play it in the west on handhelds as well at that.
Yep. Either OP doesnt actually play MH or hes a scrub.
What is this armor set?
Sounds like OP just wants Dragon's Dogma to have co-op and better monster designs. None of these are bad, but why throw Monster Hunter under the bus just because you don't enjoy it?
Rathian and Rathalos armor from MH.
Rathian and Rathalos armor from MH.
MegaMelon
Member
Monster hunter is doing pretty well at the moment though?
Mh4u is the most successful entry in the series outside japan. Generations will do well as well probably. I don't see how thats possible of the 3ds isn't an actual gaming platform outside of Japan as you put it.
InsaneZero
Member
Looks like the guy has a Rathalos set and the girl with a Rathian.
Oh, really? Is this some kind of crossover armor for Dragon's Dogma?
Mechanized
Member
No, fuck no. No. Gross. It's like hamburgers and chocolate. Great separate, no way in hell do they fit together.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Are you serious?
Emperor_Uriel
Member
I feel like a lot of the "the combat isn't clunky" arguments would also come up for classic RE vs RE4 arguments.
The difference being that, as I was certain to make very clear in the OP, Capcom would still have plenty of incentive to make classic-style MH on handhelds. From the standpoint of a fan, you have nothing to lose and potentially a new blockbuster franchise to gain.
As someone who enjoys both franchises (MH from a enemy design/variety perspective and DD from a gameplay perspective) I would take this combo over direct sequels to either.
Crossover sets for Dragon's Dogma Online.
The difference being that, as I was certain to make very clear in the OP, Capcom would still have plenty of incentive to make classic-style MH on handhelds. From the standpoint of a fan, you have nothing to lose and potentially a new blockbuster franchise to gain.
As someone who enjoys both franchises (MH from a enemy design/variety perspective and DD from a gameplay perspective) I would take this combo over direct sequels to either.
Crossover sets for Dragon's Dogma Online.
Baroquemantic
Member
No thanks. Don't taint Dogma with that MH garbage!
MegaMelon
Member
Any time spent on this would be taking time away from making mainline games. Face it, your idea just won't work. It's better for Capcom to keep these 2 ips seperate and work on improving both. As a fan, what do you lose from them doing this?
That'd be cool too. But then why bring Monster Hunter into it?
Primethius
Banned
He loses from the fact that Capcom isn't making DD games.
MH is succesful. Lets not bag the brand down with titles that weren't that succesful like Dragons Dogma.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
No more than usual. Capcom has been allocating resources to bullshit projects for years, they might as well go for something solidly ambitious this time around. Besides, what the hell is the DMC team even up to now anyway? Might as well put them to good use.
Currently, the incentive to make a DD sequel doesn't match the budget required, and MH just feels vastly inferior from a gameplay standpoint. With the DD MMO being branded a success, and MH doing great while stuck on handhelds, there's little incentive to change either franchise unless it's a big project with big rewards. The AAA console space is the one area Capcom has been abysmal at appealing to for the past six years.
*Looks at Japanese sales of Wii, PS3, Wii U and PS4*
No? Not really.
And if the west likes story focused open world RPG's, more power to them, but where is either DD and MH in that? (Disclaimer only played around 6 hours of DD so maybe there is an engaging story?).
And off topic but Witcher 2 became mega succesful with quality and ambition. Witcher 3 just fell in line with gaming trends better. Yes people love their open worlds but Capcom isn't gonna deliver on that.
Monster hunter combat is about 10^1000 times better than the combat in Dragons Dogma. I'd be fine with a combo style game if they kept the monster hunter combat, though.
Really though, give me a high def monster hunter clone on the PC and I don't care what you do with it art/story wise. As long as it plays like monster hunter.
Really though, give me a high def monster hunter clone on the PC and I don't care what you do with it art/story wise. As long as it plays like monster hunter.
Primethius
Banned
Yea, so this is basically a sequel-beg thread for DD huh.
And I love DD, but nah. MH over DD any day. And luckily, that seems to be Capcoms motto as well.
Ah, so it was just an elaborate stealth beg for console Monster Hunter. Kind of figured, but I guess this eliminates all doubt then.
Orniletter
Banned
Literally everyone who calls Monster Hunter's combat clunky doesn't know what he is talking about. The combat is A+++ tier.
And no, capcom shouldn't merge the series. Continue the unquestioned king of the hunting genre and do a proper DD2.
And no, capcom shouldn't merge the series. Continue the unquestioned king of the hunting genre and do a proper DD2.
What? They are both great games, Monster Hunter has fantastic gameplay.
All of this applies to Monster Hunter.
I disagree with this entirely, the combat isn't clunky, it only seems that way to players starting with the larger weapons, who have to get used to the idea that you can't cancel out of huge swings as easy as other games. It means that combat has weight and consequence when commiting to an attack/combo. Even then, there are several weapon options like dual swords or S&S if you want to fight quickly.
MH's combat is deep enough, but sure, expanding the grappling would be cool.
They are two different systems, one isn't superior to the other. I like the gear based progression, as levelling means you
can grind past tough enemies. MH requires you to actually learn how to beat something, not beat 200 weaker monsters then come back and find it doing sod-all damage as you kill it in three hits. Different weapons in MH are effectively different classes as they all play so differently, and skill choice is very much a thing.
Er, OK. I've seen plenty of greatsword users displaying great skill and having a great time.
Look, you come across as someone who
just hates everything about Monster Hunter, can't understand why it's so much more popular than DD and wants to use its fanbase to get more DD. The question is why isn't Capcom making a home console MH, not why it isn't using it to prop up its vastly-expensive-to-make rpg.
both of which I find great mechanics, and not at all busywork. They provide pacing and, in the case of sharpness, synergy across armour skills and weapon builds.
My thoughts are that if they were to gamble on a 'safe' big home console project, they would be better off making a MH for home consoles than trying to benefit from its fanbase with the brand name while removing virtually all of its mechanics that those fans play it for. You seem to think that your dislike of those mechanics makes them bad, but if that's the case there's a hell of a lot of veteran hunters posting epic videos who you are saying don't know what they are talking about. Slapping a popular brand name onto something else just to get people to buy it is about as cynical as you can get, and assumes that fanbase cares for nothing more than the name.
Space Medafighter X
Member
Never liked dragon dogmas world. Middle ages Europe thing is so over played and boring, or at least that what is looks like from trailers.
Leave them separate, please.
Also people calling for MH to not be on consoles is like asking for the series to die. Theres a reason for it being on handhelds, it actually sells.
Leave them separate, please.
Also people calling for MH to not be on consoles is like asking for the series to die. Theres a reason for it being on handhelds, it actually sells.
NeonZ
Member
Monster Hunter exploded on portables, and nothing has shown that its popularity can really go to consoles. Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii could barely crawl to one million units in Japan - which was better than previous PS2 console entries, but much lower than the portable ones both before and after it.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
You're looking at sales of consoles that the MMO was on, not the best choice, but I understand the sentiment.
As for the Witcher, Witcher 2 sold 1.7 million copies in a year, Witcher 3 sold over 6 million copies in just six weeks. That's an astronomical difference and more than qualifies my statement.
If a complex, narrative-heavy, Polish novel-inspired ARPG can achieve that kind of success and Capcom can't get a game about hunting monsters with big dumb weapons to sell to the Western console crowd, they just aren't trying hard enough. I think it would be very successful due to it's feature list alone. A properly marketed open world co-op ARPG would be a huge hit for them.
CaviarMeths
Member
This reads more like "I want a DD sequel with a focus on multiplayer hunting," which is a statement I would agree with. It doesn't have much to do with Monster Hunter other than lifting things like creature design and hunting systems. Those can be implemented into a DD sequel easily without using the MH brand.
After over a decade of trying, MH has finally found about as big of an audience as it could possibly have. It's never going to be as popular as Skyrim or Fallout anywhere outside of Japan. Capcom and Nintendo have pushed it hard and it's now a series that sells more than a million in the West. A console version wouldn't change that. It hasn't changed that on PS2 or Wii. No sense in liquidating the series to fit it into something else when it's finally found its audience.
And Dragon's Dogma was fantastic and could be as big as Souls, but never as big as Skyrim. Come on, tens of millions of people don't play Skyrim because they want deep, rewarding combat.
After over a decade of trying, MH has finally found about as big of an audience as it could possibly have. It's never going to be as popular as Skyrim or Fallout anywhere outside of Japan. Capcom and Nintendo have pushed it hard and it's now a series that sells more than a million in the West. A console version wouldn't change that. It hasn't changed that on PS2 or Wii. No sense in liquidating the series to fit it into something else when it's finally found its audience.
And Dragon's Dogma was fantastic and could be as big as Souls, but never as big as Skyrim. Come on, tens of millions of people don't play Skyrim because they want deep, rewarding combat.
Even Bethesda games don't let the player cancel out of hitstun.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Underrated first post.
Orniletter
Banned
Monster Hunter 4U on the 3DS is among the most successful japenese published third party games this entire generation in the west (easily top 5).
It's doing just fine where it is.
Really? I want to get into MH, but all of the gathering and crafting you have to do just to prepare for missions is my main turnoff. I'm only about 15 hours into 3U, but I loathe doing this. It's not crafting armor or weapons that bothers me - I just don't like the idea of having to do frequent gathering runs just to keep myself supplied with the basics (since the supply box is rarely enough). Am I overestimating how important this will become later on?
Kent
Member
Dragon's Dogma seems to actually be pretty good, though I've only put a couple hours into it (just picked it up the other day). I'm looking forward to playing more of it... Which isn't something I can honestly say about Monster Hunter, which has been an almost universally-awful experience whenever I've tried it (which was really disappointing, considering how much people have said about it that makes it seem like my kind of thing).
No no, I'm looking at overall Japanese sales, hardware and software wise on consoles. This past decade only 2 games are over a million in PS3/PS4, FFXIII (2 millions) and FFXIII-2 (barely 1 million, major drop comparatively with X-2).
And yeah Witcher was a slower burn based on good word of mouth. It was also PC/360. Witcher 3 exploded because it was a great follow up to 2, so it had a lot more press and media coverage even being featured in the conferences. I'm happy it did great, but undermining that it was on the back of W2 is very near sighted.
Space Medafighter X
Member
Yeah, I can't remember the last time I went on a gathering run. You unlock a farm or in 3u's case a boat trading to get most stuff.
MH4U addressing this. You get to the hunting much faster.
MegaMelon
Member
Are you using the farm? That should help you with making potions and mega potions. Whetstones can be brought from the store iirc and then things like dash juice and demon drugs can also be easy to obtain if you grow the respective plants or whatever in the farm.