In 3U, you just use the farm and fishers to get all the resources you need for basic supplies. In 4U, you just use the merchant. You don't need to run out on supply missions just to get basic potions. The main point of mid-hunt gathering is to restock on items if you do poorly and run out. I haven't done a gathering mission in 4U in over 80 hours, and I have over a hundred each of herbs, blue mushrooms, and honey on hand.
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Enough is enough, Capcom: It's time to marry Monster Hunter and Dragon's Dogma
- Thread starter Emperor_Uriel
- Start date
Alright I'm gonna be nice here and say you're allowed to have an opinion even though you're repeatedly stating it as fact. But please don't dismiss MH's gameplay because to myself and many others DD doesn't even come close. It's not like there haven't been tons of pretenders that tried to make a hunting game with more accessible combat or less micromanagement, thinking that was all you needed to take the throne. But guess what, MH still stomps all of them. It's almost like people can't even accept that MH fans actually enjoy the way the game plays.
They added monster mounting in the last one. It's simpler and less freeform than DD but also less janky and tedious.
I've had to listen to the 'clunky' complaints for years and I made them myself when I first started out. But you absolutely can't say it's objectively worse because it doesn't play like DMC or whatever. If any game in the world has proven that it's okay to have unique combat mechanics and still make money it's MH. It doesn't need to be casualized or turned into a cuhrayzee action game to be more successful, if anything that'd be killing the golden goose (not that Capcom is afraid to do that).
Progressing by getting good is more satisfying to me. I don't think MH needs to be more stat-based than it already is.
A while back I read an interview from the MH director (I think) where he said a big part of what makes MH addictive and social is showing off to other people both in and out of battle. Every piece of equipment you're wearing is proof that you were able to beat that monster repeatedly. If the progression was just tied to level or other character-specific stats I feel like it would lose some of that.
Also, MHX/generations (demo available now!) is experimenting with alternate playstyles for each weapon. I could definitely see them keeping and expanding on this aspect but I don't think it needs to be tied to progression.
MH's 'hunting' mechanics are something that more than a few see as superfluous and irrelevant. To me the huge array of traps, weapons, and items are a major part of what makes MH great. It's daunting to a new player but to someone who has put hundreds of hours into the game I LOVE that there's always more to learn about the game. You can play the game in a straightforward way and enjoy it but I like to be that guy who comes in prepared with every item that the monster is weak against just in case something goes wrong.
I feel like the steps they've been taking in 4th gen MH with faster traversal and areas with different elevation actually ARE slowly walking towards making the game work in an open world setting. I expect the series to take this step at some point.
However I don't think just making it open world will objectively improve it. To me, Dragon's Dogma's worst aspect was its huge boring open world. The game was so much more interesting in the DLC which was more focused on dungeon crawling and tough battles. If the whole game was like Dark Arisen (and better balanced) I would have absolutely loved it.
Bottom, line, TLDR: Dragon's Dogma wasn't unpopular solely because it didn't have Monster Hunter in the title. Slapping a bigger brand name on it won't magically turn it into a hit. MH fills a niche and going full 'we want the skyrim audience' would go about as well for it as Dragon's Dogma ended up.
I agree that Capcom has been far too conservative with the series and we need another big budget MH on consoles. But changing it too much will be another DmC situation where they make nobody happy.
Yikes. Entirely disagree about Monster Hunter's gameplay being clunky. UI, or visuals maybe? Sure. But the gameplay is top notch, it's just for the most part, very slow. Reading movement, committing to attacks, learning and growing that way. Learning is way more important than actually upgrading equipment, frankly. I think that speaks hugely about what I enjoy about the gameplay.
Yep. I do so little gathering in the later stages of 4U (I'm 760 hours total). Occasionally I'll do mining runs for spheres and charms, but that's about it. I can't remember the last time I collected bugs, fished, or collected herbs.
But frankly, I actually miss it a bit. I enjoy the early stages of the game where collecting resources is actually important.
Yep. I do so little gathering in the later stages of 4U (I'm 760 hours total). Occasionally I'll do mining runs for spheres and charms, but that's about it. I can't remember the last time I collected bugs, fished, or collected herbs.
But frankly, I actually miss it a bit. I enjoy the early stages of the game where collecting resources is actually important.
I've never used the farm. I don't even know if I've unlocked it (I'm still HR 1).
If you've done at least a little bit of the single player missions you should have unlocked it.
Magicgamer101
Member
I read that part and laughed. A lot. Monster Himter combat was anything but clunky. In Freedom Unite anyway
Gotdatmoney
Member
If you think MH has clunky combat it's probably because you suck at it. Slower paced and less actiony? Sure. Clunky? Naw you're just terrible.
Oh and making MH open world is not necessarily gonna make it more fun. The worst part about MH is friggin chasing the monsters around. Now you want to integrate that into a massive boring ass open world? Man, sometimes I feel like people haven't even played MH.
Oh and making MH open world is not necessarily gonna make it more fun. The worst part about MH is friggin chasing the monsters around. Now you want to integrate that into a massive boring ass open world? Man, sometimes I feel like people haven't even played MH.
Space Medafighter X
Member
Yes, but how many copies has Witcher sold in Japan compared to Monster Hunter?
It isn't comparable because people in Japan just don't buy it as much as they would Monster Hunter, which sells +1M easy in the first couple of days.
If Capcom were to make an ARPG, complex story narrative as you say, then yes, you can blame them for not selling 6M copies of said game. But this hunting monsters game with big dumb weapons sells stupidly high in Japan.
Because of brand awareness that would hopefully drive some extra sales, probably
You do realize that Monster Hunter doesn't even have spells outside of Hunting Horn buffs, right?
Edit:
Aaaaaaand OP lost me.
Edit:
OP, have you ever even cleared Low Rank, let alone reached G-Rank?
hairygreenpeas
Neo Member
Oh, man. My heart stopped for a second there. I legit thought Capcom made that announcement! lol
I've never played a single Monster Hunter game, but I have seen gameplay videos and I've gotta say - I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a Monster Hunter/Dragon's Dogma hybrid.
But, first and foremost, I would like Capcom to make a sequel to Dragon's Dogma. Or, at least, bring Dragon's Dogma Online to the west. I have been salivating over that game since it was first announced to release in Japan.
I've never played a single Monster Hunter game, but I have seen gameplay videos and I've gotta say - I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a Monster Hunter/Dragon's Dogma hybrid.
But, first and foremost, I would like Capcom to make a sequel to Dragon's Dogma. Or, at least, bring Dragon's Dogma Online to the west. I have been salivating over that game since it was first announced to release in Japan.Sammy Samusu
Member
OP asks for MH game.
Knows nothing about it.
Knows nothing about it.
I like both games but kinda had my fill after 30h of DD because of the rather lackluster open world implementation.
I'm kinda at the same point with MH now after 9 years because of Capcoms never ending asset recycling.
Maybe something experimental like this would indeed cater to my interests.
But honestly, I think a brand new home console / PC MH with a one year content roadmap like Hitman etc would be enough :^)
I'm kinda at the same point with MH now after 9 years because of Capcoms never ending asset recycling.
Maybe something experimental like this would indeed cater to my interests.
But honestly, I think a brand new home console / PC MH with a one year content roadmap like Hitman etc would be enough :^)
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
You and me both. Capcom is just content to let their ip's fall to the wayside
bobawesome
Member
Please, keep Monster Hunter as far away as possible from Dragon's Dogma. Both are developed by Capcom, have a climbing mechanic, and feature giant monsters. That's about where it ends.
Why do people keep saying this?
Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate sold better than any other entry outside Japan. The series largest sales potential is on handhelds. It's always been on handhelds. And I say this as someone who hates my 3DS from a hardware perspective.
We are living in a world where it was 4 years ago.
MH4U was my first ever Monster Hunter game and it catapulted that franchise to the near top of my GOAT gaming series. I can respect someone not being able to get into it because its combat is "slow" compared to 99% of other games, but developing a mastery over it is gaming perfection and there's literally nothing like it in any other video game. There's nothing "clunky" about it. It's deliberate. It's majestic when performed competently.
The only major thing I think MH could takeaway from DD is its open world design. I've always kind of disliked the maps in MH. Cordoning monsters off into tiny zones has never felt right to me. I'd much rather track down and fight monsters over a large open world. Even the MMO/Online PC versions of Monster Hunter don't attempt this to my knowledge. It's unfortunate.
To be honest, when I started playing 4U I thought I would hate it being on a handheld, but it really helped make it a pick-up-and-play game I could dump hundreds of hours in when I didn't have to worry about the commitment to tether myself to a console. I do think the relative lack of power of the 3DS makes it hard for it to evolve the franchise as much as it deserves. I'm really hoping the NX turns out to be a solution for this in some way. I think I'm ready to let a Nintendo console into my heart again and I would literally buy a console just to act as a dedicated Monster Hunter box.
The only major thing I think MH could takeaway from DD is its open world design. I've always kind of disliked the maps in MH. Cordoning monsters off into tiny zones has never felt right to me. I'd much rather track down and fight monsters over a large open world. Even the MMO/Online PC versions of Monster Hunter don't attempt this to my knowledge. It's unfortunate.
To be honest, when I started playing 4U I thought I would hate it being on a handheld, but it really helped make it a pick-up-and-play game I could dump hundreds of hours in when I didn't have to worry about the commitment to tether myself to a console. I do think the relative lack of power of the 3DS makes it hard for it to evolve the franchise as much as it deserves. I'm really hoping the NX turns out to be a solution for this in some way. I think I'm ready to let a Nintendo console into my heart again and I would literally buy a console just to act as a dedicated Monster Hunter box.
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
this. itsuno made the better game.
hurricanes
Member
OP do you actually know anything about MH?
Sumio Mondo
Member
pretty done
Member
When? in the PS2 days when the games were not even good?
Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii didn't sell amazing.
pretty done
Member
Yea I'd imagine most action gamers are not on the Nintendo side. Look at how well the Souls series sells on the big consoles and Steam. That's where the people are who love action games. Dark Souls 3 already sold over 1 million copies on Steam alone and it just came out like three months ago. I'd imagine the numbers on PS4 should be even higher.
Neither did pretty much any third party Wii game. I think an actual next gen monhun game could do well. Spinoffs/outsourced games don't count.
Nights Owl
Member
I personally disagree with this. Monster Hunter has always been good. You have have to be able to deal with what comes with the downgrade for MH1 from MH4U.
Hitboxes are less refined, there's less weapons, and the weapons that are there have a lot less attacks, but the core skill based gameplay is still there. And always HAS been there.
I was literally just playing MH:Freedom (If it released nowadays it'd probably have the Ultimate moniker) and to be honest, It's perfectly playable and it feels rewarding and fun just the same.
Just don't talk to me about the Plesioth.
Sammy Samusu
Member
NX is both console and portable.
Pleasing both east and west.
Please anticipate Monster HunterG²enerations 5.
Pleasing both east and west.
Please anticipate Monster Hunter
4U does have those. There's not really anything amazing about them but it's still way more than there was in all the games prior.
personally I dunno if I'd be down with that since I didn't really like Dragon's Dogma all that much.
The progression systems weren't very good tbh. It breaks far easier than MH since it's not difficult to overgear or overlevel which can trivialize the challenge of the game. You have to make sure you don't do either of that as you progress if you want somewhat of a balanced difficulty. It's pretty much why I don't really like traditional leveling systems all that much. In MH there's sort of a cap on gear upgrades at each rank and you can't really grind to get past things since you can only upgrade your equipment to a certain point so you generally don't have to worry about overleveling or getting gear that's way too good for where you are in the game.
The progression systems make the combat in DD get sort of brainless after a while which dampens the thrill of fighting the bigger enemies.
The progression systems weren't very good tbh. It breaks far easier than MH since it's not difficult to overgear or overlevel which can trivialize the challenge of the game. You have to make sure you don't do either of that as you progress if you want somewhat of a balanced difficulty. It's pretty much why I don't really like traditional leveling systems all that much. In MH there's sort of a cap on gear upgrades at each rank and you can't really grind to get past things since you can only upgrade your equipment to a certain point so you generally don't have to worry about overleveling or getting gear that's way too good for where you are in the game.
The progression systems make the combat in DD get sort of brainless after a while which dampens the thrill of fighting the bigger enemies.
Lol, yeah, it's always amazing to me how people just completely dismiss handhelds around here, like they basically don't exist. It's just pissing into yellow water to try and discuss it.
RiderKairuu
Member
I enjoy both series but I'd like to keep Monster Hunter as is.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
Again though, the argument is not "Capcom should move MH to consoles" or "Capcom should make two versions of the game."
I'm arguing that instead of vaporware like Deep Down and the slew of other junk Capcom wastes time on, they should put the DD team to work developing an MH game for consoles. One that may have crossover appeal with the core franchise due to the content, but will undoubtedly appeal to the West and non-MH fans in ways the core series never has.
It's a far safer bet than Street Fighter 5 early access was, or RE7's overhaul is, and there's no reason to think that the core fanbase would disperse because of an experimental offshoot that the core team is only tangentially involved with.
As for people who think this is an issue of experience with MH: I like MH, but the complaints I had as a noob playing Freedom are still around 3+ games later. It isn't about "getting good," that argument makes sense for Souls because my complaints at the start of Demon's Souls vanished after a few hours of playing and never resurfaced. You can play a ton of MH, beat most of the content in entire games, and still feel that some gameplay elements are stilted, especially when a very similar game like DD exists.
So basically they should take the most successfull ip they have, mix it with one that is not very successfull, and remove every single aspect of the successfull one.
It looks like op likes nothing about MH, what you want is just Dragon's Dogma 2.
And i want it too, just don't see why they should mix these two very different games together.
It looks like op likes nothing about MH, what you want is just Dragon's Dogma 2.
And i want it too, just don't see why they should mix these two very different games together.
lol That's what I interpreted from OP.
But what does MH contribute to the equation if people who like MH the way it is won't like this new hybrid, and people who don't like MH in the first place won't gain any additional interest in it just because it has MH branding? The game you are describing can be made without adding elements of MH at all. The sheer number of replies disagreeing with the concept in the OP should be proof enough for you.
The thing is, the experience you described here is particular to you, and you're trying to project it onto everyone. Saying you've played souls and then 3+ MH games and giving an opinion that MH is stilted doesn't mean anything if others don't agree with you. I fucking love DD but feel it only has a fraction of MH's depth, for example, because I don't look to a variety of special attacks or ways to climb the monster for "depth". I find strong core mechanics that encourage tight timing and risk/commitment for reward to be far deeper than the systems in DD.
As someone who has reached G-Rank in Freedom Unite, 3 Ultimate, and 4 Ultimate, why do you consider the gameplay "stilted"?
Jacethemindtaker
Neo Member
Monster Hunter's combat is clunky?
0_0
I've tried to get into Dragons Dogma tons of times but I just does nothing for me. I can see why marrying the two may get some people interested but I'd just rather have a full PC version of MonHun that's not some ftp thing.
I'm going to try and get into DD again but as it stands I just don't see it.
0_0
I've tried to get into Dragons Dogma tons of times but I just does nothing for me. I can see why marrying the two may get some people interested but I'd just rather have a full PC version of MonHun that's not some ftp thing.
I'm going to try and get into DD again but as it stands I just don't see it.
Lanrutcon
Member
Because doing well on handhelds doesn't mean it can't do well on other platforms too.
My thinking is this: MH has all the elements which could make it popular with a broader audience. Giant boss battles, open world gameplay, sizable array of gear, crafting, deep combat system, fantasy setting, etc. Especially now that we've seen the popularity of Souls games. So yeah...I just think Capcom is sitting on a lot of money.
mcz117chief
Member
Interesting proposition but Dragon's Dogma doesn't have a very good combat, it is very basic and mostly unsatisfying. It is a worse version of a Musou combat with everything being too slow and having very short range. The best they could do would be to make a game like Toukiden but we already have Toukiden so I guess you got what you wanted OP, go play some Toukiden.