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[TheChillyAcademic]

We shall see.

Sure the original concept art was absolutely breathtaking but I'd say its foolish to write the game off so early.

We shall see.

 

[Rorschach]

But when I hear Spector say stuff like this: "I'm a man of many motos and one of them is fail gloriously."

That doesn't fill me with confidence.

Pfft. That's an awesome motto. It means he goes balls out!

 

[Mato]

So good artwork doesn't always translate to beautiful game.

 

[jman2050]

This is like the complete opposite of the Fable hype from several years ago.

Hopefully that means we'll get the opposite result, a fantastic game.

 

[schuelma]

Spector on the concept art:

He answers, "There are a couple aspects to that. I think I've mentioned before, that I'm a big believer in finding out where the line is by pushing past it. There are lines that are on every project; every project exists in a creative box. For most of my games, I create that box and the team has to sort of work within it. In this case, there's a creative box that I create, and there's the creative box that Disney overlays on that. I know where my lines are, but I don't know where Disney's are. I had a lot of stuff generated that was very specifically designed to be provocative and to cross that line. I know it's too far -- or is it? You tell me. So it forces a confrontation or a decision. Some of what you saw was beyond the line, and so I learned something from it. Some of it was early design ideas that are no longer relevant. Some of it is stuff that's still in the game, and I'm not saying what."

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176700

 

[ShockingAlberto]

This is like the complete opposite of the Fable hype from several years ago.

Hopefully that means we'll get the opposite result, a fantastic game.

I dunno, this is one of those scenarios where I predict a large amount of crow will be eaten.

But you're still going to have people going all Sipocwiz-in-the-dead-space-thread trying to justify their initial hate any way they can. Gamers have short memories, but hold long grudges and they can never remember why.

 

[JCreasy]

Pfft. That's an awesome motto. It means he goes balls out!

Which would be fine if he hadn't said in Game Informer: ""You know, this is probably impossible, we're probably going fail. I'm in."

It just sounds like he's covering for the likelihood that the project won't meet expectations.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Which would be fine if he hadn't said in Game Informer: ""You know, this is probably impossible, we're probably going fail. I'm in."

It just sounds like he's covering for the likelihood that the project won't meet expectations.

He said that that was his initial reaction years ago to being told to do a game reinventing Mickey Mouse.

If you'll look at a lot of developer diaries and post-mortems, there's usually a similar reaction among many developers when faced with a huge task like that.

 

[JCreasy]

He said that that was his initial reaction years ago to being told to do a game reinventing Mickey Mouse.

If you'll look at a lot of developer diaries and post-mortems, there's usually a similar reaction among many developers when faced with a huge task like that.

Ok fair enough

Another interesting quote: "I really can't abide the thought that it will be OK or mediocre"

Just hoping that he understands that what most gamers see now is perceived as mediocrity and just "OK." If he thinks gamers are thrilled about this reveal, he's out of touch, which is another problem.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Ok fair enough

Another interesting quote: "I really can't abide the thought that it will be OK or mediocre"

Just hoping that he understands that what most gamers see now is perceived as mediocrity and just "OK." If he thinks gamers are thrilled about this reveal, he's out of touch, which is another problem.

He's saying he can't even consider the thought that this game will turn out to be only OK or mediocre, it has to be great, so he'll do all he can to make it that way. That's what he meant by the very next sentence in the quotation, "We are going after Mario and Zelda, Ratchet and Clank, we all aspire to that."

What, you thought he was saying, "I can't stand people thinking it will be OK or mediocre?"

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

He answers, "There are a couple aspects to that. I think I've mentioned before, that I'm a big believer in finding out where the line is by pushing past it. There are lines that are on every project; every project exists in a creative box. For most of my games, I create that box and the team has to sort of work within it. In this case, there's a creative box that I create, and there's the creative box that Disney overlays on that. I know where my lines are, but I don't know where Disney's are. I had a lot of stuff generated that was very specifically designed to be provocative and to cross that line. I know it's too far -- or is it? You tell me. So it forces a confrontation or a decision. Some of what you saw was beyond the line, and so I learned something from it. Some of it was early design ideas that are no longer relevant. Some of it is stuff that's still in the game, and I'm not saying what."

Im saying it now, the drawing of toontown and the castles in the sky above the rock pillars.

 

[JCreasy]

He's saying he can't even consider the thought that this game will turn out to be only OK or mediocre, it has to be great, so he'll do all he can to make it that way. That's what he meant by the very next sentence in the quotation, "We are going after Mario and Zelda, Ratchet and Clank, we all aspire to that."

What, you thought he was saying, "I can't stand people thinking it will be OK or mediocre?"

Cool, I like your interpretation better than mine. I hope that's the case.

And yes, I was fearful he may be drinkin a little too much of his own Koolaid and making dangerous assumptions that they can do no wrong. There are development teams out there like that.

And the only reason I felt this way is that they were completely ok with sharing these screenshots with us, which don't meet the standards of what what he says in his statements.

 

[Fuu]

Im saying it now, the drawing of toontown and the castles in the sky above the rock pillars.

I'll be super happy if the Castle above the pillar is still there. It's one of the coolest things in the early concept art imo, and it still fits the current vibe of the game.

 

[john tv]

I was kinda excited at the idea of someone besides Nomura taking a stab at Disney (less zippers and emo = win!), but holy crap is this ugly. Surely these aren't real screens, right? :/

 

[Catalix]

Yeah, the Oswald 2006 thing was to do with Epic Mickey. They bought in a bunch of game design students and film students to hash out new Mickey related projects (which actually involved the paint and thinner stuff), and then got Warren Spector in to head the project. It's been underway for a while now.

I can attest to that. A couple of my friends were a part of that crop of animation/game art design students who worked on the project at Disney (then Buena Vista) Interactive. They'd invite me over once in a while to check things out, mostly unreleased KH2 stuff, but the "new" Mickey artwork had me just as excited. They showed me a lot of the concept work from interns and professionals alike. Everyone was really excited about the possibilties, but some were skeptical it was even going to go past the concept stage.

It seems the "old school" white-faced Mickey and the ink/paint thinner themes have been the project's constants throughout the years. One of the more popular designs being passed around the office at the time had Mickey slightly more lanky and angular with a longer snout. Reminded me more of Mortimer Mouse, almost rat-like. It might sound off-putting in words, but honestly it was really badass.

It was treated like a company-wide competition to come up with the best way to reinvent the Mouse. This was back in 2004, around the time KH:Com came out. I just remember being extremely jealous I didn't sign up for the internship at the time. I'm kicking myself now, such a missed opportunity :lol ;_;

 

[Zoe]

Can't say I'm a fan of the art direction. Hopefully another level will click with me.

 

[beelzebozo]

mcbacon's preview confirms that it will be interesting and ambitious, even if it's not totally beautiful.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

I can attest to that. A couple of my friends were a part of that crop of animation/game art design students who worked on the project at Disney (then Buena Vista) Interactive. They'd invite me over once in a while to check things out, mostly unreleased KH2 stuff, but the "new" Mickey artwork had me just as excited. They showed me a lot of the concept work from interns and professionals alike. Everyone was really excited about the possibilties, but some were skeptical it was even going to go past the concept stage.

It seems the "old school" white-faced Mickey and the ink/paint thinner themes have been the project's constants throughout the years. One of the more popular designs being passed around the office at the time had Mickey slightly more lanky and angular with a longer snout. Reminded me more of Mortimer Mouse, almost rat-like. It might sound off-putting in words, but honestly it was really badass.

It was treated like a company-wide competition to come up with the best way to reinvent the Mouse. This was back in 2004, around the time KH:Com came out. I just remember being extremely jealous I didn't sign up for the internship at the time. I'm kicking myself now, such a missed opportunity :lol ;_;

??!!?!

 

[AndyD]

Can't say I'm a fan of the art direction. Hopefully another level will click with me.

This here as well. It even lacks that charm that KH series has.

 

[Catalix]

??!!?!

Unreleased at the time, like a year before KH2 came out (2004). Complete design docs and official art. It was my most hyped game too, so I practically died and went to heaven.

I was seriously shocked at how open the company was with the "new Mickey Mouse" and KH2 info. It seemed like the type of shit they'd have under lock and key, but they weren't stingy at all, just totally cool. Square-Enix would've never done that :lol

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Unreleased at the time, like a year before KH2 came out (2004). Complete design docs and official art. It was my most hyped game too, so I practically died and went to heaven.

I was seriously shocked at how open the company was with the "new Mickey Mouse" and KH2 info. It seemed like the type of shit they'd have under lock and key, but they weren't stingy at all, just totally cool. Square-Enix would've never done that :lol

My perception and reception to Epic Mickey is strange given how massive a fan I am of the Kingdom Hearts series. After having heard Mickey, Donald, Goofy, Yensid etc etc speak and act, for the most part, as humans, going into gibberish seems like an odd choice.

 

[Catalix]

My perception and reception to Epic Mickey is strange given how massive a fan I am of the Kingdom Hearts series. After having heard Mickey, Donald, Goofy, Yensid etc etc speak and act, for the most part, as humans, going into gibberish seems like an odd choice.

I know what you mean, but I think it's a nice compromise between the silent cartoon era and modern talkies.

 

[Acid08]

Really dislike how this game is looking so far.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Everything about the game sounds good so far, but the lighting and textures need some heavy work.

 

[AndyD]

My perception and reception to Epic Mickey is strange given how massive a fan I am of the Kingdom Hearts series. After having heard Mickey, Donald, Goofy, Yensid etc etc speak and act, for the most part, as humans, going into gibberish seems like an odd choice.

Same here. It seems like a step back almost. I mean the KH old worlds of silent cartoons were still done well without compromising the character of the environments.

And with full Disney backing they could have had some awesome voicework.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

I know what you mean, but I think it's a nice compromise between the silent cartoon era and modern talkies.

Good point.

I'm looking forward to this being absolutely NOTHING like Kingdom Hearts

Something still irks me though. In the GI article, Warren mentions that Disney wants to reinvent (IN so many words) Mickey Mouse, show a different side of his..well, character. I don't know what it is.

I watch a Mickey Mouse cartoon (contemporary, not Silly Symphony era) and I hear him speak, much like he does in KH. Ok fine.

I go to Disneyland. I see Mickey Mouse, saunter over to him and shake his hand. Mickey doesn't say a word, his entire character is portrayed in the pantomime and costume. Ok fine. Great.

Which is the right Mickey?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Did the London event happen already?

 

[magicalsoundshower]

I was kinda excited at the idea of someone besides Nomura taking a stab at Disney (less zippers and emo = win!), but holy crap is this ugly. Surely these aren't real screens, right? :/

Well, they're not from an actual Wii for sure, the extremely high resolution suggests the game was running on some devkit/PC. Even the HUD is to high res to be running on Wii hardware.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I don't really see the huge gap between the art and what's been shown. Anyone expecting the game to be nothing but paintstrokes must have had a heart attack from Street Fighter 4. Though Mickey's model does looks really weird. Would have been better if they went for something less clunky. 3D like that just doesn't suit him.

Also the article in GI made the good/evil bit sound horrendous. The section comparing the playthroughs was just confusing... The only motivation they offered to be a big jerk was the ability to be a big jerk. I really don't have a clue who would want that in a Mickey Mouse game.

 

[magicalsoundshower]

Also the article in GI made the good/evil bit sound horrendous. The section comparing the playthroughs was just confusing... The only motivation they offered to be a big jerk was the ability to be a big jerk. I really don't have a clue who would want that in a Mickey Mouse game.

Even though it's hard to believe today, Mickey's character was a lot more mischievous and anarchistic in his very early cartoons and Spector seems to be trying to bring this sorta-forgotten about side of Mickey back by letting you act like an "early" Mickey. It's a pretty cool idea, I think. I believe Spector talks about his somewhere but there are so many interviews with him about EM floating around I have no idea exactly where I read it.

 

[McBacon]

Did the London event happen already?

yes

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

The GI side by side was just terribly written, there is promise that the mechanic will turn out alright.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

I really hope they do something about that shadowing that separates Mickey's eyes and mouth area. At least town it down a little.

Here's a quick and dirty shop, but I think that not having that line there makes a pretty big difference.

The difference to me is night and day, I hope they do remove the shadowing, although maybe it wont look the same in motion.

Extremly interested to see how far this Mickey redesign goes

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Seem im the only one who likes the shadowing and doesnt find strange Mickey's eyes or face.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Also the article in GI made the good/evil bit sound horrendous. The section comparing the playthroughs was just confusing... The only motivation they offered to be a big jerk was the ability to be a big jerk. I really don't have a clue who would want that in a Mickey Mouse game.

Eh? It mentioned several examples of ways that being a jerk can get you things.

-erasing a beautiful stain glass window gets you treasure
-the scrapper can apparently use the basic enemies as springboards to jump off of
-trading an animatronic Donald body parts for a bonus health extension at the expense of being able to complete Donald's body for that level.
-if you ignore the gremlin's warnings to not mess with the tower mechanisms, you can destroy the tower, which will collapse and form a bridge.
-it implies that at least one boss fight would be faster and more direct the scrapper way

 

[Scrow]

This looks awful. A friend just pointed out that it looks like an early third-party Dreamcast game and it really does.

actually go back and look at those games. you'll find that you and your friend are completely wrong.

 

[beelzebozo]

dear disney fans:

it's halloween. you like disney.

so here's a cool video for you to watch, and wish there were an official dvd release of it:

DISNEY'S HALLOWEEN TREAT (1983)

that's part 1 of 5. links to the other parts in the right column. my mum had this taped on vhs for us and we used to watch it every halloween. spooktacular.

 

[JCreasy]

dear disney fans:

it's halloween. you like disney.

so here's a cool video for you to watch, and wish there were an official dvd release of it:

DISNEY'S HALLOWEEN TREAT (1983)

that's part 1 of 5. links to the other parts in the right column. my mum had this taped on vhs for us and we used to watch it every halloween. spooktacular.

Thanks Dude! I really appreciate this!

 

[beelzebozo]

i would pay a handsome sum of money to have all the disney channel holiday specials on a nice dvd.

 

[Cheez-It]

But when I hear Spector say stuff like this...

Spector

The fuck is wrong with you?

He's not some half-wit developer. He's not some guy who's all talk. He's fucking Warren Spector, and he has the backing of Disney and the support of Pixar.

 

[The Hermit]

dear disney fans:

it's halloween. you like disney.

so here's a cool video for you to watch, and wish there were an official dvd release of it:

DISNEY'S HALLOWEEN TREAT (1983)

that's part 1 of 5. links to the other parts in the right column. my mum had this taped on vhs for us and we used to watch it every halloween. spooktacular.

Holy FUCK! That brough me memories!! I loved those...

The 3 "ghosts" scarying the other real ghost was fantastic... hell I am almost crying.

Thanks man!

 

[JCreasy]

The fuck is wrong with you?

He's not some half-wit developer. He's not some guy who's all talk. He's fucking Warren Spector, and he has the backing of Disney and the support of Pixar.

Hopefully he can get his dev team to deliver on his goals.

Right now that's not happening. If the expectation is that it will eventually look impressive, they should've waited to reveal it then.

 

[Epcott]

I really hope they do something about that shadowing that separates Mickey's eyes and mouth area. At least town it down a little.

Here's a quick and dirty shop, but I think that not having that line there makes a pretty big difference.

The whole "Mickey as a 3D model" thing bugs me, and it's not just here in this game. It bothers me in the Disney CGI holiday movies as well as in the children show that comes on Playhouse Disney (or something like that). It completely kills the spirit for me, since there is just too much shading and lighting going on for a character from such humble beginnings. Had WB done this with Bosco, I'd feel the same involuntary gag reflex.

I don't really think this is a problem with WS's vision (which I love) but I see it more-so as a result of the medium this story is unfolding on (ie: a video game). I would almost go as far as saying that I wish this game were cell shaded (or just a cell shaded Mickey as someone had mentioned)... and that alone would be a nice feat, an engine where key characters like Goofy, Donald, or Minnie were cell shaded while inert characters and objects were not.

And you know what the strange thing is? I look at Timeless River from KHII, and I realize that while Mikey's model does indeed have that unsightly over lighting/shadowing as well, and yet... it's looks perfectly normal to me, while Epic Mickey's ummm... Mickey looks a little off.

Then again, maybe this won't be the case once the game is in motion. And maybe the animators of the game have a perfectly good reason why the model is the way that it is. Time will tell I guess.


EDIT: I just realized, it Mick's ears... they're so small in EM, maybe that's what make him look so strange? I suppose I should look at Disney's old Mickey achieve footage to see why they're so tiny :lol

 

[Cheez-It]

http://i36.tinypic.com/xlxocp.jpg

Hopefully he can get his dev team to deliver on his goals.

Right now that's not happening. If the expectation is that it will eventually look impressive, they should've waited to reveal it then.

Ohh, so we should be judging whether the dev team is delivering... based on an early screenshot.

No point arguing about it. It's a year out.

 

[beelzebozo]

what else can you say, though? if warren spector is saying, "the graphics are rough. it's damn early. please look at the concepts and not the graphics," that's one thing, but i don't think he's said much of anything like that, has he?

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

I think this Mickey model is perfect. He looks nice and ratty, not bloated and bulbous like the new-age version.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Hopefully he can get his dev team to deliver on his goals.

Right now that's not happening. If the expectation is that it will eventually look impressive, they should've waited to reveal it then.

Spector's best game, one that's frequently considered one of the best of all time, is Deus Ex. It was not considered a very good looking game at all, even for the time.

 

[kylej]

I think it looks great

Really?

Ok I can understand all the wait and see comments but you really think this looks great?

 

[schild]

This game has suffered the worst concept -> production transition in the history of gaming.

I could not be less wanting of the actual game.

I want fucking zombie clockwork goofy tattooed on my chest though.

 

[Linkified]

I think this Mickey model is perfect. He looks nice and ratty, not bloated and bulbous like the new-age version.

I don't know if you know this but Mickey is a mouse a goddamn MOUSE.

But I was talking to a friend today in our unis postgrad labs and we had this thought that because the ideas came up in internal think tanks at disney before Spector came on board - how much creative direction has been allowed to give rather than managing press, hitting milestones and filling out gant charts, etc. ?