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[mocoworm]

Eurogamer just tweeted this. Pretty interesting.

@eurogamer: David Braben argues that pre-owned sales are killing single player games:

http://t.co/RCpXJplG

 

[WrenchNinja]

People will say 'Oh well, I paid all this money and it's mine to do with as I will', but the problem is that's what's keeping the retail price up - prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells.

Hahaha yeah right

 

[kami_sama]

Just stumbled on this. Didn't read because I'd only laugh.

 

[szaromir]

Skyrim sold 10M copies, no?

 

[Dresden]

Skyrim sold 10M copies, no?

if it had an online pass + multiplayer it would've sold 20m

 

[Nibel]

Actually multiplayer focused games are killing single player games :lol

 

[kami_sama]

Skyrim sold 10M copies, no?

And, if I recall correctly, KoA sold well. So I don't think single player focused games are being killed.

 

[aquavelva]

Always remember guys, devs gotta eat! Plus they're our bro's, why wouldn't you want to support your bros?!?!?!?

EDIT: I wonder how long until devs start complaining that consumers need to buy more games, even shitty ones to help the industry. It should be our duty to buy every game that comes out, if not you're supporting slavery.

 

[BlueTsunami]

The sentiment that pre-owned games are killing gaming is killing single player games

 

[NullPointer]

Hahaha yeah right

Yup. We should all know this is bullshit by now.

 

[Balb]

How does that even make sense? Used games date back to the birth of the home console industry.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Problem Braben ?

Also Both L A Noire and Deus Ex: Human Revolution sold pretty well and they are single-player games.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Well, he's right. All of those single player forms of media, like books, music, movies, they all died off because people kept reselling them.

People will say 'Oh well, I paid all this money and it's mine to do with as I will', but the problem is that's what's keeping the retail price up - prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells.

This is trash. The industry wouldn't lower prices, they'd complain about something else, like piracy or clearance racks to justify their ever-rising costs. It's never enough.

 

[Balb]

Well, he's right. All of those single player forms of media, books, music, movies, they all died off because people kept reselling them.



This is trash. The industry wouldn't lower prices, they'd complain about something else, like piracy or clearance racks to justify their ever-rising costs. It's never enough.

Yep. They can always sit back on the lazy "gamers are entitled" argument. Such a lame excuse that sidesteps the real issue.

 

[Empty]

pre-owned games are a symptom, they're something that comes out of the real problem killing single player games *at retail* which is £40 for a new game.

unless you are the small exception and have the resources to make and market a vast single player focused game in hd like rockstar and bethesda do, most people are going to want a game that has the staying power that multiplayer brings if they're going to spend that much.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I actually agree that used games are a problem but Braben's salt on the matter is really fucking boring now. He's been talking about it forever and he never comes off as particularly knowledgeable as to how to fix that market, he just seems angry.

 

[Reallink]

People will say 'Oh well, I paid all this money and it's mine to do with as I will', but the problem is that's what's keeping the retail price up - prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells.

This pure unadulterated bullshit that belongs in the dictionary as a definition for bullshit.

 

[Gestahl]

I disagree, I feel prices would lower if all these companies burned to the ground

....in a metaphorical blaze with our dollars as the kindling.

 

[Burai]

Boring, me-too, seen-it-all-before, dull-past-the-first-hour single player games are killing the single player game market.

 

[Blutonium]

And people resell them because they retain quite some value. Not many people sell a game that's only worth 10$, thus, cheaper games are less likely to be resold.

The problem isn't us, it's them.

 

[Kelegacy]

What's hurting SP games is multiplayer (if SP is indeed being hurt).

The problem with MP focused games is that they have an expiration date. Once people stop playing or servers shut down, it's gone. Meanwhile, a SP game will live forever. And you can play SP games on 360 without paying for Gold.

I game on 360 predominantly but still don't play online all that much. SP games are my personal escapism, like reading a book. And yet I don't have any shortage of SP games.

Shoehorning MP into every damn game, that irritates me. But whatever.

For the record, I am fine with used game sales. Just like I am fine with used cars, books, movies, clothes, everything. In fact, I'll buy more games new just because I know I can trade them in for a decent margin. I don't buy the industry crying about them. Just another scapegoat. Other industries do just freakin' fine. Games are darn expensive, people are going to buy used to save some dough.

 

[NullPointer]

The problem with MP focused games is that they have an expiration date. Once people stop playing or servers shut down, it's gone. Meanwhile, a SP game will live forever. And you can play SP games on 360 without paying for Gold.

Not if its an EA game.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

1. Budget your development costs and marketing costs reasonably
2. Make a good game
3. Price it accordingly
4. Don't treat your potential customers like idiots
5. Profit

 

[Clear]

This is just another inconvenient truth that most people don't want to accept, and typically dismiss by cherry-picking an outlier example that suits their position.

If you look at the titles getting greenlit now compared to 10 years ago, its an undeniable phenomenon. The market is polarized and the centre (which unfortunately was a great incubator for ideas and talent) has simply withered away and died.

 

[Ranger X]

All this energy lost on gamers.
They should concentrate on Gamestop and creating themselves a deal. Bunch of whiners...

 

[Kelegacy]

Not if its an EA game.

Single player EA games don't live forever? I'm pretty sure you can still play them offline just fine. Am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Visualante2]

David Braben is like England's Mark Rein

I actually agree that used games are a problem but Braben's salt on the matter is really fucking boring now. He's been talking about it forever and he never comes off as particularly knowledgeable as to how to fix that market, he just seems angry.

Probably cause he spent all that time and money on the Outsider and it went nowhere.

 

[The Faceless Master]

oh man, if only they could do something to make people keep their games like free post release DLC...

 

[IdreamofHIME]

You know what's killing single player games? 4hr campaigns that aren't worth $60.

Said it before and will say it again, the uniform pricing of games is beyond retarded.

There's no way in hell Asura's Wrath should be the same price as Skyrim.
A Vanilla DVD doesn't cost the same as a boxset and a 200page paperback doesn't cost the same as a hardback 600 page book.

The whole games industry needs to wake the hell up, but it won't coz it's in a bubble that thinks it's superior. Personally I can't wait for the inevitable crash that's coming to the industry.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

another problem fixed when games go digital.

 

[Plinko]

Devs need to realize that saying garbage like this makes people turn against them.

Quit pouring massive amounts of resources into crappy games before complaining about "pre-owned game sales" keeping prices up.

 

[(._.)]

Will continue to buy used as long as these whiny monsters continue to complain about how they aren't making more millions than they already are. It's funny to me how there are so many AAA games that are profitable with more and more released each year. Hurting them? LMAO, yeah right.

Look at the music industry. They actually had legitimate complaints against piracy.

Some people have expense. God forbid they try to save some money when obtaining a license to a game legally. How about worrying less about games being bought/sold used and worrying more about not making a piece of shit experience that last 6 hours with tacked on multiplayer.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Yep. They can always sit back on the lazy "gamers are entitled" argument. Such a lame excuse that sidesteps the real issue.

It makes me so mad every time. These are the sort of comments that irritate me the most. I mean, you came into the industry, you decided to make video games, and now you're whining about the reality of the situation that's been there since the dawn of time?

I can't fault the concept that people are making multiplayer games because those don't get resold as quickly. I disagree, and I think that shitty dead-in-a-week multiplayer modes are one of several dozen things that are plaguing the industry right now. But that's smarter than claiming game prices are higher because game publishers are so blind they just put all these used game sales into their new game sales when they were tallying up their Excel spreadsheets and are suddenly struck by the discrepancy.

We're not even in the realm of "the market won't support our artistic direction." It's not even that wraparound. It's jumping directly to "the consumers aren't giving us enough money." The games industry is swamped in poor business decisions and every time it's thrown onto the gamers, because why not?

 

[Balb]

another problem fixed when games go digital.

The situation might get even worse if everything goes digital. I don't think everyone will be willing to pay $60 for digital games.

 

[Kelegacy]

You know what's killing single player games? 4hr campaigns that aren't worth $60.

Said it before and will say it again, the uniform pricing of games is beyond retarded.

There's no way in hell Asura's Wrath should be the same price as Skyrim.
A Vanilla DVD doesn't cost the same as a boxset and a 200page paperback doesn't cost the same as a hardback 600 page book.

The whole games industry needs to wake the hell up, but it won't coz it's in a bubble that thinks it's superior. Personally I can't wait for the inevitable crash that's coming to the industry.

Hear Hear.

That's why Redbox works. Because you can rent a game and beat it for $2. I've beaten a handful of games in one rental thanks to them. That's the tragedy here. If I paid $60 for such a short game it I'd be looking to sell it used too.

In a digital-only future, you'd have to pay $60 for that 3 hour campaign and live with it. No trying to salvage your mistake by selling it or trading it to a friend.

I will buy value-laden, exceptional games brand new at launch. Witcher 2 is going to get a purchase, KoA got one last month, Skyrim did last fall, Saints Row 3 was the only game I asked for for Xmas, Deus Ex: HR was a purchase due to content and awesomeness, Batman Arkham City is a big game and a new purchase. But those are all meaty games that give me my money's worth and maybe even more.

 

[Yuripaw]

1. Budget your development costs and marketing costs reasonably
2. Make a good game
3. Price it accordingly
4. Don't treat your customers like criminals
5. Profit

fixed, I think this is what happens more often. The paying customer of games get screwed over more often by the big publishers than anyone. Stuff like online passes, DRM, are just ways for them to maintain control over you, and make sure you don't use their product in ways that might hurt them. "How dare you buy our game at a yard sale! Pay us $10 more to access all the features!"

 

[Elginer]

People will say 'Oh well, I paid all this money and it's mine to do with as I will', but the problem is that's what's keeping the retail price up - prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells.

That's some mighty bullshit. As if they still wouldnt' sell the bloody game for 60 bucks or EA's little Mass Effect 3 experiment of 70. Please, these companies are greedy as fuck all. They would not pass on any savings to the consumer. Yeah, just like ONLINE PASSES help pay for servers to stay up, oh no they don't!

 

[Arcteryx]

You know what's killing single player games? 4hr campaigns that aren't worth $60.

Said it before and will say it again, the uniform pricing of games is beyond retarded.

There's no way in hell Asura's Wrath should be the same price as Skyrim.
A Vanilla DVD doesn't cost the same as a boxset and a 200page paperback doesn't cost the same as a hardback 600 page book.

The whole games industry needs to wake the hell up, but it won't coz it's in a bubble that thinks it's superior. Personally I can't wait for the inevitable crash that's coming to the industry.

amen to this

I'm afraid to purchase an SP only (or any SP/MP game with MP of no interest to me) before knowing a good estimate of the length.

My basic breakdown:
<10 = wait until its $15 or less(or rent)
10-20 = wait until its $30 or less
20-30 = wait until its $40 or less
>30 = would purchase day 1 @ $60
100+ = would actually pay more than $60

Don't bitch at me for buying a 5hr game used. Blame yourself for releasing a 5hr game @ a $60 pricepoint.

 

[Marco1]

Prices would come down!!!!
FFS just go and make Elite 2 please.

 

[Meier]

Actually multiplayer focused games are killing single player games :lol

/thread

 

[Yuripaw]

Don't bitch at me for buying a 5hr game used. Blame yourself for releasing a 5hr game @ a $60 pricepoint.

In all fairness, this really isn't anything new. Going back to the NES era, $50 games from back then could conceivably be completed and beaten in like 2-3 hours now, maybe less for some. The difference and problem is that so many games today are such a guided experience with shit like mandatory tutorials making sure you learn nothing on your own. They offer little in the challenge department that you could count on ONLY getting that 4-5 hour playthrough.

On a NES game however, even though one of those games could be beaten in a couple of hours once you master them, they were so challenging that a kid like me could play them for days and still have fun with it trying to learn all the ins and outs.

 

[Liamario]

I don't buy pre owned, but I think it's fair to say that buying something pre owned is directly related to the quality of the title.

 

[J-Rod]

If they can't operate within the established consumer laws of this country then they need to get the fuck gone and quit shaming their paying customers and equating them to pirates over what's been fair and good for a half a century. I don't even buy used, but I am sick of hearing this shit.

 

[SirPenguin]

I'm a gamer with $40 and a bunch old games I don't play anymore in my hand. I stroll up to my local game store and go to buy Skyrim! Oh, it's $60. Oh well.

I'm a gamer with $60 in my hand. I stroll up to my local game store and go to buy the latest sweet game. Oh look, Skyrim! It's the 4th game in the series, so perhaps it makes sense for me to play the older games first. Wait, they're still $40? Weird. Oh well.

I'm a gamer with a friend that'd love to play a game I just beat. I'd love for him to play it so we can talk about the story and get hyped for the sequel, but I cannot transfer my license and he cannot afford the game on his own. Oh well.



Banning pre-owned sales is killing single player games.

 

[teruterubozu]

Fuck the customers! They suck!

 

[Hot Coldman]

David Braben is like England's Mark Rein

Probably cause he spent all that time and money on the Outsider and it went nowhere.

The games Frontier have released during The Outsider's development hell were fair efforts- LostWinds is awesome, and Kinectimals is good for what it is- but I feel like Braben had minimal input on those. He's too busy being this speakerbox no-one asked for instead of making shit.

Hey Braben! Make an awesome game, release it on Steam, see how irrelevant the stuff you're whining about can be. Make one of those great single-player games you're talking about. The Outsider failed for more reasons than what you say, but you guys can still make fantastic games.

 

[Balb]

If they can't operate within the established consumer laws of this country then they need to get the fuck gone and quit shaming their paying customers and equating them to pirates over what's been fair and good for a half a century. I don't even buy used, but I am sick of hearing this shit.

This sums up my thoughts extremely well. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[RobotMafia]

Yeah, fuck this guy. I'm such an evil bastard, I just traded in $90 worth of games to amazon last week. I'm helping to ruin the game industry...nevermind the fact that I used that money to buy new games.

 

[RedNumberFive]

If they can't operate within the established consumer laws of this country then they need to get the fuck gone and quit shaming their paying customers and equating them to pirates over what's been fair and good for a half a century. I don't even buy used, but I am sick of hearing this shit.

Amen brother. Coming up with a sustainable business plan is not my problem.

 

[Gintamen]

As if 5-10 hr games are something new from this millenium. :|