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[GoldenEye 007]

Stop it with the "use a gun" bullshit. Like that somehow isn't barbaric. What if you miss? Leave a person writhing in agony on the ground, waiting to bleed out? What, just stand over them plugging away until they stop moving?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Y'all play too many video games, learned some real nonsense about how gunshot wounds work.

Ah, usually the firing squad isn't like it used to be. From what I understand, the person is strapped down in a chair in a death chamber similar to gas chambers/electric charis of the past. The firing is remotely done I think also.

You could always put someone under first, then execute them.

 

[Durask]

I wonder how many times do we have to repeat that this is essentially heroin/valium overdose. Looks freaky but not painful. Plenty of users out there who were given narcan at the last moment and no one of them would tell you they were suffering.

Heroin overdose is probably the nicest way to go there is.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

I'm sorry, but murdering innocent people and murdering/executing a murderer is not the same thing.

Yes, one is wrong because the man is innocent and the other is wrong because we shouldn't be killing people.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Stop it with the "use a gun" bullshit. Like that somehow isn't barbaric. What if you miss? Leave a person writhing in agony on the ground, waiting to bleed out? What, just stand over them plugging away until they stop moving?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Y'all play too many video games, learned some real nonsense about how gunshot wounds work.

That's why suicides happen with guns, because we think it will be painless. It's really sad. You're right, life is not a video game.

 

[daw840]

As stated before, that is exactly what they did. And that's exactly what happened

is no one even looking at what they used to execute him

Well, hydromorphone and morphine are basically the same thing, only hydromorphone is much more potent per milligram.

Huh...I thought the chemicals used were secret? I guess I missed that part of the op. How's that a painful death then?

 

[Konka]

Well that settles it. The only humane way is to stick the person out in the Nevada desert and drop an H-bomb on them. They won't feel a thing. We should use this method.

 

[shinobi602]

There are far quicker and less painful ways, like a quick bullet, come on.

In any case, I don't think locking them up for the rest of their life is any more humane. Pretty much eternal torment until your death...

 

[AntoneM]

Everyone calling for the state to murder people, would you please volunteer to pull the trigger?

 

[Huff]

Huh...I thought the chemicals used were secret? I guess I missed that part of the op. How's that a painful death then?

well it wouldn't be much of a story if people knew he was in no pain

 

[Tapiozona]

Everyone calling for the state to murder people, would you please volunteer to pull the trigger?

If you're pro-choice would you perform an abortion?

 

[Kano on the Phone]

I'm sorry, but murdering innocent people and murdering/executing a murderer is not the same thing.

It isn't? Go murder someone who's murdered someone and when the cops show up, just explain the situation to them and let us all know what happens.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

If you're pro-choice would you perform an abortion?

Pro choice means he would. Him not wanting kill someone means he isn't pro choice.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

I thought there was a federal court order or something of the sort for Arizona to reveal the types of drugs and where they got them for these botched executions?

 

[JDdelphin]

It isn't? Go murder someone who's murdered someone and when the cops show up, just explain the situation to them and let us all know what happens.

It this guy doing the explaining also a cop?


....results may vary

 

[Extra Sauce]

Nope. That type of death is usually based on bleeding around the brain that compresses the brain down onto the brain stem. The quickest way to do that is a direct shot to the brainstorm but that is in a difficult location. Plenty of people have tried and just blown off their face or the skull. And if you successfully injure the brain, it would take awhile.

What about emptying an automatic shotgun into their face?

Probably a ridiculous question, but not anymore ridiculous than the death penalty itself...

 

[ronco2000]

that's terrible 2 hours of dying

barbaric

So what? I'm sure the people he killed didn't die instantly either.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

So what? I'm sure the people he killed didn't die instantly either.

Good thing we hold our government to such a high standard.

 

[JJDinomite]

Don't feel sorry for the dude.

 

[Loakum]

I kind of agree with the sentiment here but come to a different conclusion. If jail is too good for them, why isn't a quick death too good for them? Seriously. I'm not advocating a slow tortorous death, I'm just preferring them to have a lifetime in jail + a normal death. Why should murderers get a faster more merciful way out than my cancer stricken grandparents?

So I'm against the death penalty, not because it's too barbaric but I believe it's too nice. They won't be suffering anymore while the families of their victims will still be suffering. That's just wrong.

To be done with them. To put them down like rabid dogs they are. I seen a news story about this elderly couple that was robbed at gun point by 3 people, in their 20's. They buried the old couple both alive. When the police discovered/dug up the bodies of the couple, they were holding hands. The type of people who can do this kind of crime needs swift and final justice.

 

[Lamel]

Aren't these medical executions supposed to be more efficient.

Hell might as well hang them if this is the case.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

So what? I'm sure the people he killed didn't die instantly either.

I feel sorry for the people he killed too. I just can't wheeee at someone being in agony for two hours before dying out.

My mind has problems with acquiescence of suffering. I know he's a bad person, and that he has made others suffer, though. And I am glad that society was not okay with his crimes and he was placed under punishment, but ya.... just the thought of condoning suffering to others... man, i can't do it.

:x

 

[gravitybear]

Guillotine is still the most effective and pain free method even though it appears most barbaric. Studies show you cant feel shit when your spine is separated from your head.

 

[Jon Armdog]

Nailed it. Murder is murder and what the state did to this guy is as bad as what he did to land in jail.



Ok?

That is absurd. Of course its not just as bad. This dude took two lives that were presumably not threatening his own. He was not an innocent, whereas the two he destroyed may have been. Not equivalent at all.

Maybe it makes the world easier to interpret by saying "murder is murder," but come on, man. The world is obviously not that black and white.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

That is absurd. Of course its not just as bad. This dude took two lives that were presumably not threatening his own. He was not an innocent, whereas the two he destroyed may have been. Not equivalent at all.

Murder is murder, its just one involves innocent people.

 

[TheJLC]

They need to use the more simple proven execution methods.

 

[AntoneM]

If you're pro-choice would you perform an abortion?

I am, and I would. I believe the right of an independently living human being is greater than that of a fetus. I am also for euthanasia (by choice) in cases where the person is no longer able to live independent of machines.

 

[BruiserBear]

What I don't understand is why I always hear about them using a "new" drug for lethal injection. Aren't there probably dozens of absolutely proven drugs that will kill a person in seconds, and minutes at most?

OR, are we always getting these new drugs because lawyers are fighting to tell us how the current drug being used isn't "humane", so the government is forced to use a new one?

Either way, this shouldn't really be this complicated. I don't believe this guy suffered any more than a person on an operating table suffers through their heart surgery, but regardless it's silly we're still using "new" drugs at this point. I don't have much empathy for murderers.

 

[Rafterman]

Pro choice means he would. Him not wanting kill someone means he isn't pro choice.

That's a leap of logic if I ever heard one. There are plenty of people who don't support the death penalty and are also pro-choice. In fact most liberals fall into that category.

Nothing but Republican revenge porn. It's a barbaric practice that needs to go.

Half of Democrats support the death penalty, so that's an inaccurate statement.

 

[NullPointer]

Murder is murder, its just one involves innocent people.

You should use a different word.

Murder: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

 

[AntoneM]

I ask again, people calling for the state to murder people, would you pull the trigger?

For those who say yes, I can't judge you. For those in support of some one to pull the trigger for them I can't help but call you hypocrites for calling for the death of some one yet being unwilling to do it yourself.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

You should use a different word.

Murder: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

What's a word for wrongly killing someone when supported by the government then?

CIA?

 

[Juice]

This fuckup is on SCOTUS hands. The execution was stayed over concerns and then they overruled and denied cert.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

That is absurd. Of course its not just as bad. This dude took two lives that were presumably not threatening his own. He was not an innocent, whereas the two he destroyed may have been. Not equivalent at all.

Maybe it makes the world easier to interpret by saying "murder is murder," but come on, man. The world is obviously not that black and white.

That's a lot of maybes. What his victims had killed people in their earlier days? You don't know it because we don't take that sort of thing into account when we arrest and prosecute someone for murder. We just say "it isn't ok to kill someone unless they're an immediate threat to your life (in some instances)."

It seems a lot more black and white and oversimplistic to me to just say "they killed someone! We must also kill!" It someone wants to take the high road, it seems to me they should take the road of nuance and thoughtfulness and punishment over revenge. Your way seems pretty basic.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

They need to use the more simple proven execution methods.

Yeah and we should expedite the process. It takes too long to go from sentencing to death as it is already.

 

[DarkFlow]

Wouldn't a bullet to the head work just as well?

I've always kinda wondered why that isn't an option.

Because another human needs to pull the trigger. It can really fuck with your head killing another person. That's why when they did firing squads, I think only one rifle had a bullet, and they didn't tell them who. That way they could all tell themselves it was not there gun that killed them.

 

[reckless]

Yeah and we should expedite the process. It takes too long as it is already.

And yet a lot of innocent people have been exonerated from death row. Expediting it more leads to more innocent people being convicted and maybe even killed.

 

[Jon Armdog]

That's a lot of maybes. What his victims had killed people in their earlier days? You don't know it because we don't take that sort of thing into account when we arrest and prosecute someone for murder. We just say "it isn't ok to kill someone unless they're an immediate threat to your life (in some instances)."

It seems a lot more black and white and oversimplistic to me to just say "they killed someone! We must also kill!" But that's just me.

I'd say your scenario involves significantly more maybes than mine. The vast majority of Americans have not killed someone. Its pretty unlikely that the victims were also murderers. I feel like you're reaching pretty badly for that "what if"

 

[Kano on the Phone]

I'd say your scenario involves significantly more maybes than mine. The vast majority of Americans have not killed someone. Its pretty unlikely that the victims were also murderers. I feel like you're reaching pretty badly for that "what if"

Whoosh.

 

[BlueBadger]

I've never been a fan of the death penalty, personally. This just reaffirms that for me.

It's expensive, and areas that still use the death penalty statistically have higher crime rates, ironically.

Life sentence without parole, in my opinion.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

And yet a lot of innocent people have been exonerated from death row. Expediting it more leads to more innocent people being convicted and maybe even killed.

Yeah but how else will I satisfy my barbarism and bloodlust?

 

[Rafterman]

I ask again, people calling for the state to murder people, would you pull the trigger?

You never did answer the question earlier, are you pro-life or pro-choice, and if you are pro-choice would you perform an abortion? I know very few (none) pro-choice people who would feel comfortable seeing a live abortion, much less performing one. I don't see why the death penalty needs to be held to any higher standard. At the end of the day there are tons of things that the average person supports that they wouldn't do themselves, singling out this one thing to prove your point is pretty disingenuous.

 

[gutter_trash]

You never did answer the question earlier, are you pro-life or pro-choice, and if you are pro-choice would you perform an abortion? I know very few (none) pro-choice people who would feel comfortable seeing a live abortion, much less performing one. I don't see why the death penalty needs to be held to any higher standard. At the end of the day there are tons of things that the average person supports that they wouldn't do themselves, singling out this one thing to prove your point is pretty disingenuous.

please stop, the US doesn't even have public maternity leave. It is the only Western country that has no mandated maternity leave.

 

[Staccat0]

The only person I care about is the poor victim this murdered killed.

Only one of them? ...oh come on...

 

[Village]

It isn't? Go murder someone who's murdered someone and when the cops show up, just explain the situation to them and let us all know what happens.

Depending on the situation, nothing to something,

 

[SirMossyBloke]

please stop, the US doesn't even have public maternity leave. It is the only Western country that has no mandated maternity leave.

Is this true? Wtf.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Is this true? Wtf.

Yep. Murica is still behind on a lot of things.

 

[Loofy]

And yet a lot of innocent people have been exonerated from death row. Expediting it more leads to more innocent people being convicted and maybe even killed.

Wouldnt the solution to this be making it harder to put people on deathrow rather getting rid of capital punishment all together.

 

[reckless]

Wouldnt the solution to this be making it harder to put people on deathrow rather getting rid of capital punishment all together.

innocent people will still slip through and get put on death row.

 

[hockeypuck]

guess what the difference is between these drugs and the ones the hospice uses on patients to ease their pain and suffering

nothing

Except that hospice patients have something else that is expediting their deaths: terminal disease. The drugs delivered are not meant to kill the patient, only to ease pain.

That is very different when using the same drugs to actually cause the death itself, especially in someone who likely does not have terminal disease, who likely has a better functioning liver, and likely has a better functioning kidney.

Hospice patients also receive scopolamine patches or glycopyrrolate to decrease the thick oral secretions. Did the inmate receive those while he accumulated secretions over the course of 2 hours? The news report did not say.

This inmate likely had a last meal and hence a full stomach after which he was then laid supine and given sedatives that relaxed his muscles. Did he aspirate during his death? Do you consider aspiration acceptable as part of a humane treatment? Most hospice patients at the very end of their lives are usually too sick to eat, much less take in a full several course meal, and thus do not have full stomachs to regurgitate. Unlike a paralytic, which can relax a stomach, benzos and opioids aren't expected to relax a stomach and vomiting is a definite possibility. The inmate was obviously still strong enough to maintain a gag reflex despite overdose.

i personally think this combo is more humane and harder to fuck up then the previous combo of anesthetic, paralytic, and potassium.

The prevalence of news stories these days compared to the past don't support that notion. And I disagree that a benzo/opoiod is easier to titrate compared to anesthetic, paralytic and potassium for the purpose of killing. If a benzo and an opioid combination was "harder to fuck up" compared to an anesthetic, then anesthesia would be unnecessary as a needed medical field. Moreover, a patient isn't obviously gasping when administered a paralytic. Say what you want about sedation, but you're failing at convincing laymen that gasping is okay.

and regarding experimenting, you'd be hard pressed to find a doc unfamiliar with a benzo/opiate combo

But you will be hard pressed to find a doc who knows how much benzos and opioids to administer to "properly" kill someone. You can't prove from the report that the patient was not underdosed.

I can easily kill you with midazolam 10 mg and fentanyl 100 mcg. These aren't typical overdose strengths. All I have to do is take away the supplemental oxygen and let you desaturate to 70% for many hours while you aspirate your secretions. You'll then suffer from anoxic brain injury and be declared brain dead within 48 hours. You won't feel a thing, so that should be humane, right?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Wouldnt the solution to this be making it harder to put people on deathrow rather getting rid of capital punishment all together.

Why wouldn't the solution be just getting rid of capital punishment? Why are people so intent on killing others? What do we really get out of it?