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[DriftingSpirit]

At least tomb raider recovering from PC sales and upcoming ps4 sales. SFV can't recover like that. Future is not bright for SF franchise.

I wouldn't put off SFV's long term chances but what you're saying isn't unlikely. Either way, there was a purpose for the deal between Sony and Capcom.

They should have funded kof xiv instead! Probably will be packed with content,50 characters at launch hell alil bit more money and Sony's help to get it to look a lil better they'd be good

I guess it would be the differene in brand power between SF and KoF. Of course, given how SFV has been handled by Capcom, it essentially made any brand power null and void.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I wouldn't put off SFV's long term chances but what you're saying isn't unlikely. Either way, there was a purpose for the deal between Sony and Capcom.

I guess it would be the differene in brand power between SF and KoF. Of course, given how SFV has been handled by Capcom, it essentially made any brand power null and void.

Yea that's true not many know kof, almost everyone knows sf but like you said that did nothing for them because they shot themselves in the foot before they even began to walk

 

[sense]

At least tomb raider recovering from PC sales and upcoming ps4 sales. SFV can't recover like that. Future is not bright for SF franchise.

unlike tomb raider, future was not bright for sf to begin with and hence capcom needing help to get it out early. i think this is a long play and the game will pick up sales over a long period of time.the game is very good and the only thing holding it back is lack of content and that should fix itself over the next few months

 

[CosmicQueso]

Big name franchise won't get a new game made unless a third party ponies up some money

Well, is that because Capcom cannot fund or is it because no one wants to invest since a profitable return seems unlikely? If the latter, then perhaps the game shouldn't have been made at all?

Big name franchise's next game can then be paraded around as an exclusive game only available on third parties console.

Which is only meaningful if by doing so the console on which it is to be exclusive should benefit in some way. Right now, hard to see how that happened or could have happened.

Gain good PR for how they "saved" said big franchise's next game.

Good PR that doesn't result in improved sales or profitable return is not good PR.

One extra game that people can't buy on competitors box.

Again, only meaningful if people care enough to be motivated by this.

Right now, just looks like a bad deal all around.

 

[Welfare]

Right now, just looks like a bad deal all around.

It looks bad now because Capcom fucked this release pretty badly. Back when the deal was made years ago, the idea of Street Fighter being exclusive to PS4 must've sounded like a good idea to the people that signed that deal.

 

[Primethius]

I'm not sure I agree that something is good PR only if it brings in sales. SFV's failing sales wise aren't the end all in terms of PR, especially not in the long turn if they are able to somewhat recover the botched launch.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

It looks bad now because Capcom fucked this release pretty badly. Back when the deal was made years ago, the idea of Street Fighter being exclusive to PS4 must've sounded like a good idea to the people that signed that deal.

Precisely. Throwing hindsight into the mix gets us nowhere with the discussion. Of course they were not expecting things to go the way they did. That doesn't invalidate the deal itself and why both sides figured it would be a good idea. The execution was just botched.

I'm not sure I agree that something is good PR only if it brings in sales. SFV's failing sales wise aren't the end all in terms of PR, especially not in the long turn if they are able to somewhat recover the botched launch.

This is true as well.

 

[slavesnyder]

Thanks Cosmic for throwing a little molotov cocktail. But honestly: Were you serious or just provocative?
Street Fighter is no huge deal any more, but a beloved franchise. If the game was released properly it would have sold decently and would have been a pretty little exclusive gem, a nice, heart-warming story of money spent to safe a game that would have been canned otherwise*.
Just two threads away Microsoft is criticised that they cann mid-sized games and only got for safe bets and autistic AAA repetition, and here we have the opposite and it's a bad decision, too. Is Automata a bad decision? Shenmue? Those are not safe bets, but at least secure diversity and engagement.

*same story they told about Titanfall btw, where poor garage publisher EA had no money to finish this zero mass-appeal nieche game from this unknown indie studio. But thank god there was a white knight...

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

March? Where were you in the past few months, bruh?

oops, lol. forgot it moved to May, still i stand by what i wrote.

 

[joecanada]

Thanks Cosmic for throwing a little molotov cocktail. But honestly: Were you serious or just provocative?
Street Fighter is no huge deal any more, but a beloved franchise. If the game was released properly it would have sold decently and would have been a pretty little exclusive gem, a nice, heart-warming story of money spent to safe a game that would have been canned otherwise*.
Just two threads away Microsoft is criticised that they cann mid-sized games and only got for safe bets and autistic AAA repetition, and here we have the opposite and it's a bad decision, too. Is Automata a bad decision? Shenmue? Those are not safe bets, but at least secure diversity and engagement.

*same story they told about Titanfall btw, where poor garage publisher EA had no money to finish this zero mass-appeal nieche game from this unknown indie studio. But thank god there was a white knight...

Honestly I think Shenmue and TLG are bad business decisions on paper, but Sony having done pretty well this gen are kind of giving fans some of what they want, despite there being high risks. You get a bit more money, and you can afford some more high risk ventures.
And I respect that as a policy from them. Maybe this will actually pay off through goodwill and library (people like knowing there are tons of games out there to try even if they only buy COD lol). Or I could be wrong and they could sell millions and millions. Who knows.

 

[ethomaz]

So we are in Capcom fucked SF franchise talk...

I'm the only one that thinks SFV is fine? It will have legs and sell really great.

This is the first service SF game launched... it is a game to sell the whole generation and not just at launch.

 

[Welfare]

So we are in Capcom fucked SF franchise talk...

I'm the only one that thinks SFV is fine? It will have legs and sell really great.

Have we seen a game that had bad word of mouth and bad initial sales be saved by a future update? Drawing a complete blank on this one.

Well, actually, I guess you could say CS:GO, but that game went from doing fine to straight up being in the top 3 Steam games.

 

[ethomaz]

Have we seen a game that had bad word of mouth and bad initial sales be saved by a future update? Drawing a complete blank on this one.

Yes... a lot.

Diablo III, Destiny, DRIVECLUB, etc... just to list some recente cases.

BTW we are talking a game that will be supported the whole generation with updates and flesh things... the userbase will grow and the word of mouth will change.

The userbase right now is not low... over 500k after few weeks is not bad.

 

[CosmicQueso]

It looks bad now because Capcom fucked this release pretty badly. Back when the deal was made years ago, the idea of Street Fighter being exclusive to PS4 must've sounded like a good idea to the people that signed that deal.

But if the market changed at some point to what it is now, where an exclusive like SF5 does not matter in terms of moving hardware (people saying that the SF5 issue is not going to change PS4 sales significantly, implying that a SF5 hit also would not have helped PS4 sales significantly) then the people who signed the deal misread the market, making the deal a bad deal.

Results matter, not intentions. And separating the two is an important thing to do. Do these results not say that this was probably a bad deal at worst or just a pointless deal to make at best (at least knowing what we know now)?

Precisely. Throwing hindsight into the mix gets us nowhere with the discussion. Of course they were not expecting things to go the way they did. That doesn't invalidate the deal itself and why both sides figured it would be a good idea. The execution was just botched.

What? When looking at the results of anything, hindsight is all that is important. Whether the parties misread the market, or whether execution was terrible, the results being (so far) quite bad aren't negated by what was thought at the time. A bad deal is a bad deal, regardless of what assumptions were made at the time.

The decision making process could have been flawless. Likely assumptions may have been debated and agreed upon, market scenarios researched thoroughly. All of that doesn't mean that the results will be good. And bad results mean a bad deal.

It's not a value judgment on the people who were involved in thing or who like thing.

Street Fighter is no huge deal any more, but a beloved franchise. If the game was released properly it would have sold decently and would have been a pretty little exclusive gem, a nice, heart-warming story of money spent to safe a game that would have been canned otherwise*.

Maybe it was a beloved franchise, or maybe it still is, but the market has decided it's not worth paying for anymore (or at least not right now)? Either way, initial results speak for themselves. Someone somewhere misread the market (unless they expected this, which doesn't seem likely). Probably multiple groups.

Just two threads away Microsoft is criticised that they cann mid-sized games and only got for safe bets and autistic AAA repetition, and here we have the opposite and it's a bad decision, too.

Hold on. The MS situation is different as we don't know the results of those decisions yet. Perhaps MS' new strategy results in far better results. We don't know if what is going on there are bad or good decisions yet. Might not ever be able to know.

What we do know, however, is that SF5 is off to a very poor start in some markets, and the general consensus here is that this doesn't really matter for PS4. Which implies that it wouldn't have helped had SF5 gotten off to a hot start. And if it doesn't really matter either way, then why do it?

Is Automata a bad decision? Shenmue? Those are not safe bets, but at least secure diversity and engagement.

No one knows if these are bad decisions yet. We also have no evidence that says diversity and engagement help sales, but that's something altogether different.

I'm not being provocative. The initial results are the initial results.

So we are in Capcom fucked SF franchise talk...

I'm the only one that thinks SFV is fine? It will have legs and sell really great.

This is the first service SF game launched... it is a game to sell the whole generation and not just at launch.

Well if the results change to positive, then so does the assessment of the deal. It's possible this could happen, but I don't think that we can honestly say it's more likely to than not?

Honestly I think Shenmue and TLG are bad business decisions on paper, but Sony having done pretty well this gen are kind of giving fans some of what they want, despite there being high risks. You get a bit more money, and you can afford some more high risk ventures.
And I respect that as a policy from them. Maybe this will actually pay off through goodwill and library (people like knowing there are tons of games out there to try even if they only buy COD lol). Or I could be wrong and they could sell millions and millions. Who knows.

This too.

 

[Shin-chan]

Have we seen a game that had bad word of mouth and bad initial sales be saved by a future update? Drawing a complete blank on this one.

Well, actually, I guess you could say CS:GO, but that game went from doing fine to straight up being in the top 3 Steam games.

Worldwide Driveclub had decent legs after a tepid at best launch I think. Hadn't it sold over 2m a while ago? Shipped or not I can't imagine that was all launch sales.

 

[ethomaz]

I believe SFV will have sold over 2m units before EVO.

Is that bad?

 

[Omnistalgic]

I think the deal was perfectly fine. Capcom only projected to ship 2 million. If the game was more feature completely, I would imagine it would have doubled in sales, maybe more. That’s still not a huge franchise, but instead of having a 1.5 -2million base, Capcom now has a 500k (Maybe) base and now has to work hard to increase sales over the next 4-5 years. They can turn it around, and from how the game launched, I don’t think Sony put a lot of money into the game, but split it between devs pay and Capcom cup payoffs/marketing. So, I imagine there is marketing and stuff setup for the upcoming years.

Doesn’t look like the future is too bright, but I think this will turn into at least a Driveclub level of success. I say that because like DriveClub the foundation of the base gameplay is really really good. Hopefully Capcom is willing to let a $30 and $15 and maybe even a free version go up on the PSN storefront to increase he user base.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I believe SFV will have sold over 2m units before EVO.

Is that bad?

Not at all, that’s great even. People are questioning whether it can get there because we don’t even know if it hit 500K yet.

 

[ethomaz]

^ I agree Capcom projected only 2m shipped for the quarter... that is pretty low for shipments and shows how Capcom already had some ideia of how SFV will sell.

Let's see if Capcom will reach those 2m shipped.

Not at all, that’s great even. People are questioning whether it can get there because we don’t even know if it hit 500K yet.

I dropped my Rank to 0LP again.

I'm tied at 310k

That means only the guys that played Ranked Match at least once accounts to well over 310k.

I believe it sold over 500k but of course I can't prove.

 

[Welfare]

Yes... a lot.

Diablo III, Destiny, DRIVECLUB, etc... just to list some recente cases.

BTW we are talking a game that will be supported the whole generation with updates and flesh things... the userbase will grow and the word of mouth will change.

The userbase right now is not low... over 500k after few weeks is not bad.

Diablo 3 and Destiny sold massively at launch, and word of mouth was more mixed than bad (D3 leaned more towards bad than Destiny). Those updates fixed players complaints, but the games weren't selling terribly because of those complaints.

SFV is selling terribly everywhere and with MKX, I don't see casuals picking up SFV in mass when the single player update is added in June. Sony/Capcom would have to start up the marketing machine again if they want the general audience to know they can buy the game "now".

 

[Ryng_tolu]

The userbase right now is not low... over 500k after few weeks is not bad.

We Are Sure it's Over 500K?

We know has sold ~30K in UK after 3 weeks, it got outsold by Pokèmon MD in Germany and Italy during launch week, and we know it sold ~55K in Japan in 2 weeks. At retail.

We also know it bombed digitally in EU and did bad in USA.

Huuuum.....

 

[Omnistalgic]

^ I agree Capcom projected only 2m shipped for the quarter... that is pretty low for shipments and shows how Capcom already had some ideia of how SFV will sell.

Let's see if Capcom will reach those 2m shipped.


I dropped my Rank to 0LP again.

I'm tied at 310k

That means only the guys that played Ranked Match at least once accounts to well over 310k.

I believe it sold over 500k but of course I can't prove.

Hell, I hope it’s at 700K by now, but Capcom will likely say if/when it hits 1million units even if it’s just shipped to start the campaign of goodwill. So I’m hoping that sells are steady and every update, every patch, a little bit of fans trickle back in to play this game. it’s really one of the best fighters ever released IMO.

Surpassingly to me as well. GAF is has a pretty big SF core. Lots of people in the OT and it’s already on it’s second OT just in week 3. Many people are getting more wrapped up in the hype and I do see a lot of comments like "March update I’m jumping in” or “I’m getting this as soon as it’s more fleshed out”. So yes, I do think this is more than just a beloved franchise. And Capcom did not wisely launch, could have likely doubled sales with more impressive reviews and impressions.

However, I think there’s a good chunk of hold outs that are still waiting for the game to be worth it. I’m pretty optimistic myself, good games usually find a way to stand out, and the FGC is pretty hyped about it. it’s got a great starting point that’s for sure.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Surpassingly to me as well. GAF is has a pretty big SF core. Lots of people in the OT and it’s already on it’s second OT just in week 3. Many people are getting more wrapped up in the hype and I do see a lot of comments like "March update I’m jumping in” or “I’m getting this as soon as it’s more fleshed out”. So yes, I do think this is more than just a beloved franchise. And Capcom did not wisely launch, could have likely doubled sales with more impressive reviews and impressions.

But we all know that GAF is a very poor representation of the overall mass market.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Diablo 3 and Destiny sold massively at launch, and word of mouth was more mixed than bad (D3 leaned more towards bad than Destiny). Those updates fixed players complaints, but the games weren't selling terribly because of those complaints.

SFV is selling terribly everywhere and with MKX, I don't see casuals picking up SFV in mass when the single player update is added in June. Sony/Capcom would have to start up the marketing machine again if they want the general audience to know they can buy the game "now".

I think that’s what they will do though. Will be free marketing everytime a new character drops, every Evo and Capcom cup, and they will probably release the game again in retail after it has a significant amount of updates. MKXL is selling well again and it’s basically the same game as last year with more content.

DC definitely started off very slowly just like SF. Destiny and Diablo were pretty much popular from the get go.

Too much pessimism ;0)

 

[ethomaz]

We Are Sure it's Over 500K?

We know has sold ~30K in UK after 3 weeks, it got outsold by Pokèmon MD in Germany and Italy during launch week, and we know it sold ~55K in Japan in 2 weeks. At retail.

We also know it bombed digitally in EU and did bad in USA.

Huuuum.....

Not sure.

But the stats and these sales from UK and Japan appoints to over 500k.

There are over 310k ranked players... well 310k is the first guy with 0LP.

Edit - If you counts UK + JP + 20% digital you will have 100k for these 2 countries only. PC is at 120-130k right now. 270k for US and the rest of the world including digital is pretty safe.

To be fair any estimate below 500k right now is very improbably.

 

[Vena]

What we do know, however, is that SF5 is off to a very poor start in some markets, and the general consensus here is that this doesn't really matter for PS4. Which implies that it wouldn't have helped had SF5 gotten off to a hot start. And if it doesn't really matter either way, then why do it?

I always thought the intention of this move was to give the platform its own "eSports" FGC brand title that is exclusive to it as it is a lacking branch of the platform's portfolio. Xbox has Killer Instinct, which while not as large as SF, has its own nested community for the brand that is grwoing. And Nintendo has Smash (and I guess Pokken now as well), which rivals Street Fighter. (Note, though, that you're right in that if it fails to move units then its still not a good deal even if the brand is exclusive.) That also why it was rushed out so fast to match the Pro Tour in lieu of actually shipping a compelling product.

It seems like, when the deal was signed, it may not have been foreseen that the product would come to market with a bullet wound in both kneecaps. And the idea was to bring it to market in a better state and focus/highlight on the Pro-Tour. Both partners in this venture put money to that end, so I don't think that's an unreasonable conclusion.

Perhaps there wasn't enough money for the project, maybe it hit snags, maybe the idea of the pro-tour and outline by the parties involved prevented a delay, etc. The reality now vs. the reality when the deal was signed could have been very different. (Does this count as misreading the market, or as mismanaging a project?)

 

[Primethius]

[3DS] 105k
[PS4] 355k
[WIU] 45k
[XB1] 220k

 

[Omnistalgic]

But we all know that GAF is a very poor representation of the overall mass market.

oh no doubt about that, I’m just seeing a lot of passion there for the actual gameplay. In fighters, that is really all you can do. Popular streamers on youtube, Evolution, GAF forums, Capcom Cup, new character introductions, popular sites updating reviews, bloggers, tweets, it all adds up. The features and updates will get there, but if everyone hates the gameplay (SFXT) then you kinda have to scrap it and start over. SFV can be refined into a great package.

I’m definitely not saying if 4-5 years SFV is going to sell 10 million units. Free version or not, I think the nostalgia helped the last game greatly, if you go back to SF3 though, it was a similar situation as V.

With this one, it seems like Capcom almost prepared for the slow start though (still botched) it, and I only stand by that the game will last for the rest of the gen, and eventually go on to sell decently. That for me would be about 2-3 million with a dedicated player base of active 500k.

If Capcom and Sony are smart though, they could easily turn this into Rocket League and get it downloaded on 5 million or more PS4’s. We’ll see though, so far, Capcom has been pretty stupid.

 

[CosmicQueso]

The reality now vs. the reality when the deal was signed could have been very different. (Does this count as misreading the market, or as mismanaging a project?)

Well, in that case it'd be more that the set of assumptions used to make the business case ended up being wrong. It happens.

If Capcom and Sony are smart though, they could easily turn this into Rocket League and get it downloaded on 5 million or more PS4’s. We’ll see though, so far, Capcom has been pretty stupid.

Now that would a very interesting idea, and one that would absolutely change things.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Well, in that case it'd be more that the set of assumptions used to make the business case ended up being wrong. It happens.



Now that would a very interesting idea, and one that would absolutely change things.

Yea many speculate they will release a free or cheap version with just Ken and Ryu available down the road, since the game is designed to be profitable from the store and long term purchases.

 

[Welfare]

Yea many speculate they will release a free or cheap version with just Ken and Ryu available down the road, since the game is designed to be profitable from the store and long term purchases.

The Killer Instinct model would be a neat idea. Free download with a rotating free character of the week with the ability to purchase single characters or a whole set of characters from different seasons.

Also, just looking at Amazon, and the Division bundle is out of stock? Selling better than expected?

 

[AncientDiety]

So what was the point of the whole deal, then?

Let's assume that this statement is true (I'd agree with it)... so... why do this deal at all if you're Sony?

Since the moment it was announced it was a weird deal.

Same reason sony funds games like dreams, until dawn, to broaden their library portfolio. Maybe they expected more though then what it did.

 

[Omnistalgic]

The Killer Instinct model would be a neat idea. Free download with a rotating free character of the week with the ability to purchase single characters or a whole set of characters from different seasons.

Also, just looking at Amazon, and the Division bundle is out of stock? Selling better than expected?

yea I imagine they want to milk the $60 price point first...then price drop and free to play version is my guess. Might not see it for a while though. 2016 is still pretty much beta #5 for the game lol...

 

[AncientDiety]

The Killer Instinct model would be a neat idea. Free download with a rotating free character of the week with the ability to purchase single characters or a whole set of characters from different seasons.

Also, just looking at Amazon, and the Division bundle is out of stock? Selling better than expected?

Hard to say, the PS4 cod bundle was out of stock for awhile, could just be low stock at amazon.

 

[Jigorath]

Everytime I enter this thread, people have lowered their expectations for Street Fighter. Is it even going to break 200k?

On a more positive note, it looks like The Division is going to be huge. I wonder what effect it'll have on hardware.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

So what was the point of the whole deal, then?

Let's assume that this statement is true (I'd agree with it)... so... why do this deal at all if you're Sony?

Since the moment it was announced it was a weird deal.

In this I would agree. The only real reason it makes sense is if it really did mean that SFV was made earlier, but that has really limited benefit to Sony.

Thats why I put some of the blame for all this at the feet of Yoshinori ono. I personally feel that that mans passion is ultimately bad for the franchise because he will do whatever to get games made, even if it compromises their quailty.

First a history lesson. People forget that this is the second time in recent memory that SF has been heavily alined with Playstation to middling/bad results. I feel that SFXT, was a game that was way over budget for a fighter, especially when you consider licensing Namco characters Marketing and size of roster.


It looked like a dream game, but when you step back and realise how big the launch roster was, how much high quailty CGI was used in its marketing and how content packed it was in comparison to vanilla SFIV or marvel you kinda begin to understand why Ono was forced to put the gems system in. The game had to be a big finacial success.

Likewise with the 12 DLC characters locked on disc. Ono pretty much overpromised to his bosses and had to provide a way for high levels of post launch montization, the likes of which we simply have not seen from a fighting game.

How does this tie into Sony? Well a project this big, needed some kind of manufactuer promotion as well. It wasnt good enough to just be on the system, it needed to be pushed like a first party title. So Ono in a moment of madness agreed to a deal that seems crazy when we look back at it:- In return for Playstation brand promotion, he would hold back a stagerring 12 content complete DLC characters for the Vita release 6 months from launch and also include on top of that 3 exclusive playstation branded characters.

None of this really would provide a n adavantage to the PS3 version in sales and at release, just served to piss off Xbox owners, especially when all the DLC characters were proven to be compete and playable on disc.

Thats the kind of naked ambition we are talking about here and there is no doubt in my mind that the same thing happened with SFV. Ono was probably told when he first tried to get it off the ground that Capcom simply were not ready to invest in the next gen consoles, least not for a fighting game. SFV would of happened, but just far later in the gen when the consoles had proven themselves to the successes we now no them to be.

But to get SFV out at any cost, Ono again went to sony and convinced them to invest a small amount of dev costs and give the game once again playstation branding. Sony probably agreed because the investment and marketing buy-in was relatively small and they arent exactly swimming in exclusive software.

But once again, Capcoms higher ups needed a plan for montization to procure further investment. Thats why SFV launched as a platform with a view to be constantly updated. The problem is however, once again Ono has misread the market for the game and in his passion for gettting it out, ignored the fact that the vast majority of SF fans look at it still as a boxed product, not a service. Thats why the basklash and why the game has far less positive WOM than it should.

So TL;DR to answer your question why did Sony do the deal? Because even 3rd party software that doesnt sell hardware is attractive to enrich the overall platform. Plus the buy-in was probably relatively cheap.

Why did Capcom do the deal is a larger question, but again, I put it down to Onos misguided enthusiasm more than anything else.

 

[Papagaio]

[PS4] 320K
[XB1] 210K
[3DS] 85K
[WIU] 47k

 

[Ryng_tolu]

On a more positive note, it looks like The Division is going to be huge. I wonder what effect it'll have on hardware.

I don't think PS4 / XB1 will get a huge boost with The Division since i feel like people who are interesting already have a current gen console honestly.

But yeah, i agree it's gonna be HUGE. My first prediction was 1.3 million for March NPD... i don't know, i think it can do even >1.5 million. Maybe. Most likely. We will see how will do in UK at first!

 

[Obliterator]

Anyone have Destiny’s opening NPD number's? I would like to use them for something

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Anyone have Destiny’s opening NPD number's? I would like to use them for something

almost 3 million (including 300,000 from PS4 white bundle).

 

[Obliterator]

almost 3 million (including 300,000 from PS4 white bundle).

Damn that was such a crazy big launch. Yeah Division won't be doing anything like that lol

 

[Welfare]

Anyone have Destiny’s opening NPD number's? I would like to use them for something

All platforms, no bundles = < 2.7m

PS4 bundles = ~300k

 

[AncientDiety]

almost 3 million (including 300,000 from PS4 white bundle).

Destiny did that much? wow.

 

[Raylan]

NPD coverage for March = 5 weeks
Right?

 

[slavesnyder]

As long as we don't know how much each party invested we can't say for whom this Street Fighter deal/decision was really bad.

I still think that the business decision was reasonable, but sabotaged by bad execution.
It's like that there is a difference between murder and negligent homicide. The result is the same, but our judgement should be different.

Also, diversity is an important selling point, even if some games are not successful. People decide for a product because it has this and that extra feature, even if they don't need it and might never use it. And I think with gaming portfolio it works similar on a group of customers.

 

[sense]

In this I would agree. The only real reason it makes sense is if it really did mean that SFV was made earlier, but that has really limited benefit to Sony.

Thats why I put some of the blame for all this at the feet of Yoshinori ono. I personally feel that that mans passion is ultimately bad for the franchise because he will do whatever to get games made, even if it compromises their quailty.

First a history lesson. People forget that this is the second time in recent memory that SF has been heavily alined with Playstation to middling/bad results. I feel that SFXT, was a game that was way over budget for a fighter, especially when you consider licensing Namco characters Marketing and size of roster.


It looked like a dream game, but when you step back and realise how big the launch roster was, how much high quailty CGI was used in its marketing and how content packed it was in comparison to vanilla SFIV or marvel you kinda begin to understand why Ono was forced to put the gems system in. The game had to be a big finacial success.

Likewise with the 12 DLC characters locked on disc. Ono pretty much overpromised to his bosses and had to provide a way for high levels of post launch montization, the likes of which we simply have not seen from a fighting game.

How does this tie into Sony? Well a project this big, needed some kind of manufactuer promotion as well. It wasnt good enough to just be on the system, it needed to be pushed like a first party title. So Ono in a moment of madness agreed to a deal that seems crazy when we look back at it:- In return for Playstation brand promotion, he would hold back a stagerring 12 content complete DLC characters for the Vita release 6 months from launch and also include on top of that 3 exclusive playstation branded characters.

None of this really would provide a n adavantage to the PS3 version in sales and at release, just served to piss off Xbox owners, especially when all the DLC characters were proven to be compete and playable on disc.

Thats the kind of naked ambition we are talking about here and there is no doubt in my mind that the same thing happened with SFV. Ono was probably told when he first tried to get it off the ground that Capcom simply were not ready to invest in the next gen consoles, least not for a fighting game. SFV would of happened, but just far later in the gen when the consoles had proven themselves to the successes we now no them to be.

But to get SFV out at any cost, Ono again went to sony and convinced them to invest a small amount of dev costs and give the game once again playstation branding. Sony probably agreed because the investment and marketing buy-in was relatively small and they arent exactly swimming in exclusive software.

But once again, Capcoms higher ups needed a plan for montization to procure further investment. Thats why SFV launched as a platform with a view to be constantly updated. The problem is however, once again Ono has misread the market for the game and in his passion for gettting it out, ignored the fact that the vast majority of SF fans look at it still as a boxed product, not a service. Thats why the basklash and why the game has far less positive WOM than it should.

So TL;DR to answer your question why did Sony do the deal? Because even 3rd party software that doesnt sell hardware is attractive to enrich the overall platform. Plus the buy-in was probably relatively cheap.

Why did Capcom do the deal is a larger question, but again, I put it down to Onos misguided enthusiasm more than anything else.

good to know you can see the future and say ono misread the market.... maybe the idea was to sell the initial product for free and then monetize all the additional content but capcom figured why not charge them 60$ for it and still do the monetization part and one year down the line give the base game away for free and continue to add additional characters and content and maybe even a story expansion. i am not sure why people can't see the long term play just looking at the way the game came out and planned content for atleast the next six months. why does it have to sell 2 million copies right off the gate for it to be called a success or a bomb if it doesn't?

the game looks good and the core gameplay is fun and has positive word of mouth and i think things two years down the line people will look at the game as a success if capcom plays it right

 

[Welfare]

NPD coverage for March = 5 weeks
Right?

Yes, and so are June, September, and December.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Damn that was such a crazy big launch. Yeah Division won't be doing anything like that lol

Yup. Destiny, as a shooter, is easy the bigger new IP ever in USA, waaaaaaaaaaay over Watch_Dogs, which only sold 1.87 million in 6 weeks.

Though, as a worldwide battle, they were very close.

Watch_Dogs has sold 4 million during first week, and Destiny has sold 6.3 million in one month ( 4 weeks ).

While in USA Destiny was a way bigger game, in UK they were super close
Watch_Dogs first week - 388,000
Destiny first week - 417,000

The most interesting part is that, in the rest of Europe, and well, IN THE INTERE EUROPE, the Watch_Dogs launch was bigger than Destiny...

Indeed, Watch_Dogs in Europe remain the bigger new IP ever.

I'm from Italy, and honestly i expected that. Where i live, Watch_Dogs was way more hyped... i'm not surprised it outsold Destiny here.

In general, Ubisoft in Europe is BIG.

Most of the Ubisoft series as Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, and Watch_Dogs are BIG in Europe and here in Italy.


Ubisoft best market is always Europe by a long time. BUT, with The Division is gonna be an interesting case.
We talk about a shooter. And we know the shooters in USA is bigger than in Europe. That's also why Destiny has sold SO MUCH more than Watch_Dogs in Europe.

I don't know how is the situation in USA, but at least here in Italy, The Division is very hyped, but not at Watch Dogs level... At least in Italy and generally in Europe, i believe Watch_Dogs won't be topped soon. Not by The Division, at least.

USA, eeeeeeeh, i don't know... maybe The Division can outsell Watch_Dogs in USA. Guess we will see.

Watch_Dogs first week in USA was 1.26 million, and 1.87 million in 6 weeks.


Will The Division beat it?

 

[Raylan]

Yes, and so are June, September, and December.

Thanks, man

 

[Obliterator]

USA, eeeeeeeh, i don't know... maybe The Division can outsell Watch_Dogs in USA. Guess we will see.

Watch_Dogs first week in USA was 1.26 million, and 1.87 million in 6 weeks.


Will The Division beat it?

Too early to say but as of now I lean towards it not beating that. Still early though so may change my mind