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Fighting Games Weekly | July 28 - Aug 3 | The thirst is UNiEL

M

mollipen

Member
Cybit said:
I thought the idea behind Poison originally was that she was supposed to be a woman, but when they ported the game over to the USA, they thought that the US audience would freak out about male on female violence in a video game, so they then retconned her into a male, and then it basically turned into "Don't think too hard about it" until they just finally made her transgender?
Click to expand...

The exacts of the timeline for Poison's transgender status aren't totally clear, but there's an interesting two-part Youtube video that looks into all of the evidence that's out there that helps paint a picture of that timeline. We know she was considered to be trans before the game hit the West, and there are early design docs that have Japanese writing referencing her as "newhalf" (Japanese term for a transsexual).

Either way, at some point her official cannon became that she was trans, and that was the official, established cannon for 20+ years until her inclusion in SFxT. Whatever she was at the very beginning, 95% (or more) of her existence has been with her being trans.
 
K

kirblar

Member
shidoshi said:
The exacts of the timeline for Poison's transgender status aren't totally clear, but there's an interesting two-part Youtube video that looks into all of the evidence that's out there that helps paint a picture of that timeline. We know she was considered to be trans before the game hit the West, and there are early design docs that have Japanese writing referencing her as "newhalf" (Japanese term for a transsexual).

Either way, at some point her official cannon became that she was trans, and that was the official, established cannon for 20+ years until her inclusion in SFxT. Whatever she was at the very beginning, 95% (or more) of her existence has been with her being trans.
Click to expand...
She's still trans, though. (The attempt to have it both ways when SFxT released blew up in their face.)
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
shidoshi said:
She's not portrayed as dressing like that for someone else's benefit—she does because she wants to.
Click to expand...

I don't often buy this, because more often than not they're designed that way for the sake of the player. When was the last time a character dressed scantily for the benefit of someone else in their game?
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
NEO0MJ said:
I don't often buy this, because more often than not they're designed that way for the sake of the player. When was the last time a character dressed scantily for the benefit of someone else in their game?
Click to expand...

I'm sure the other characters also appreciate her outfit
?
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
NEO0MJ said:
I don't often buy this, because more often than not they're designed that way for the sake of the player. When was the last time a character dressed scantily for the benefit of someone else in their game?
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm not the best with Final Fight canon or anything, but I don't remember her appearance being justified by anything in her SF incarnations.

Not that it necessarily needs to be justified, but I'm with you that it's probably for the player first and foremost.
 
M

mollipen

Member
I REALLY DIDN'T MEAN TO FILL THIS THREAD WITH POISON DISCUSSION! I was just here looking at all of the summer USFIV outfits!

kirblar said:
She's still trans, though. (The attempt to have it both ways when SFxT released blew up in their face.)
Click to expand...

The problem is when you tell players "she is what you want her to be". That's a dangerous path to take with minority characters, because so many people will pick the route that only serves their own selfish wants.


NEO0MJ said:
I don't often buy this, because more often than not they're designed that way for the sake of the player. When was the last time a character dressed scantily for the benefit of someone else in their game?
Click to expand...

No, look, Poison isn't real, so obviously she was made to be a certain way, and it's most likely that her original designers wanted her to be a sexy skin-showing punk girl. Still, I think it's fair to say that, in the way she's portrayed, she does what she wants because she wants to, not for the sake of someone else. She make look like a total male fantasy, but I think she comes off as a totally strong and independent character. I mean, hell, her relationship with Hugo could have clearly gone in a very stereotypical way, and yet she comes off as the "leader" of the duo and isn't there just to be his arm candy.
 
I

Infinite

Member
enzo_gt said:
Yeah I'm not the best with Final Fight canon or anything, but I don't remember her appearance being justified by anything in her SF incarnations.

Not that it necessarily needs to be justified, but I'm with you that it's probably for the player first and foremost.
Click to expand...

That's. . .beside the point. She is a fictional made up character who has no autonomy. However the designer who created her and her fictitious persona obviously made her a certain way. Making poison a character who is in control of her own sexuality is clearly an intention of theirs and apart of the lore of the character, fan service aside.
 
V

Village

Member
shidoshi said:
I REALLY DIDN'T MEAN TO FILL THIS THREAD WITH POISON DISCUSSION! I was just here looking at all of the summer USFIV outfits!



The problem is when you tell players "she is what you want her to be". That's a dangerous path to take with minority characters, because so many people will pick the route that only serves their own selfish wants.




No, look, Poison isn't real, so obviously she was made to be a certain way, and it's most likely that her original designers wanted her to be a sexy skin-showing punk girl. Still, I think it's fair to say that, in the way she's portrayed, she does what she wants because she wants to, not for the sake of someone else. She make look like a total male fantasy, but I think she comes off as a totally strong and independent character. I mean, hell, her relationship with Hugo could have clearly gone in a very stereotypical way, and yet she comes off as the "leader" of the duo and isn't there just to be his arm candy.
Click to expand...

I agree with your middle statement, thats why I like when they just strait up called leo from tekken a girl. I'm fine with that, she's rock howard, but I am fine with it. Leaving stuff ambiguous is kinda weak sauce in this situation.

As far as the bolded goes, I think poison is fine. I would warn you though.. that argument can easily be thrown in the opposite direction.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Infinite said:
That's. . .beside the point. She is a fictional made up character who has no autonomy. However the designer who created her and her fictitious persona obviously made her a certain way. Making poison a character who is in control of her own sexuality is clearly an intention of theirs and apart of the lore of the character, fan service aside.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, like I said, I'm not familiar with her FF lore.
 
F

Flying High

Member
Hope all you guys enjoy the amazing Guardians of the Galaxies experence like I did!

Note: Guardians Of Tne Galaxies spoilers below!
We Are Groot!
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
enzo_gt said:
Fair enough, like I said, I'm not familiar with her FF lore.
Click to expand...

His point was that that doesn't matter lol

Poison is characterized most strongly in the SF games themselves anyways
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
Guardians was badass. Definitely the best Marvel film yet. All the characters are likable and definitely made a bunch of fans.
 
T

twozerotwo

Member
Just got done watching More Than a Game. What the hell happened to Latif?

I forgot how insane his crazy-ass 3-match comeback was before losing to Fuudo.
 
I

Infinite

Member
Sayah said:
Is 45 minutes to learn a combo really considered long?

Future of Tekken discussion got me all over the place. Namco will have hard time topping TTT2. No doubt about that.
Click to expand...

I spend an hour learning combos and practicing them when I ever I play. Not really that long imo
 
K

Kimosabae

Banned
45 minutes definitely isn't long, it was a joke.

I'm such an anomaly when it comes to Tekken's aesthetics, apparently. I think most of the designs look generic as hell. When I look at Steve Fox, I think to myself; "Uhh... yeah... that's a boxer.". When I see Bryan Fury I think; "Uhh... yeah... that's a bad guy"... and so on.

The only character I ever liked was Tekken 4/5 Jin with the jumpsuit. Actually, one of my favorite character designs ever. Coincidentally, those were the only Tekken games I put time into.

I wish FGs were driven more by indie development rather than archaic, rigid, large publishers like Capcom, WB, and Namco. Everyone would be better off.
 
S

Sayah

Member
Infinite said:
I spend an hour learning combos and practicing them when I ever I play. Not really that long imo
Click to expand...

I've spent hours in most fighting games. Spent COUNTLESS hours trying to get Nina WS1 repeats and still mess them up consistently in actual matches. Cannot link together combos in KoFXIII or in SFIV still. Reason why I use Sakura.....easy to combo character. Unable to do Magneto combos in UMvC3.......they took away his easy bnb that I used in vanilla. 45 minutes is nothing. This is in reference to the Fray episode in case anyone is wondering why I'm discussing this.
 
S

Sayah

Member
Kimosabae said:
45 minutes definitely isn't long, it was a joke.

I'm such an anomaly when it comes to Tekken's aesthetics, apparently. I think most of the designs look generic as hell. When I look at Steve Fox, I think to myself; "Uhh... yeah... that's a boxer.". When I see Bryan Fury I think; "Uhh... yeah... that's a bad guy"... and so on.

The only character I ever liked was Tekken 4/5 Jin with the jumpsuit. Actually, one of my favorite character designs ever. Coincidentally, those were the only Tekken games I put time into.

I wish FGs were driven more by indie development rather than archaic, rigid, large publishers like Capcom, WB, and Namco. Everyone would be better off.
Click to expand...

I love Tekken's aesthetics. lol.

I also disagree with the indie comment. Indie's largely focus on 2D fighting games. I need Namco for those high-budgeted powerhouse 3D fighters. I have some doubt any indie could develop the level of detail seen in SCV or the level of content seen in TTT2 with the budgets/time/staff they have (but maybe I'm wrong).

Skullgirls, no doubt, is a recent example of great indie effort. I haven't played the game extensively but just from reading posts know that it has great netcode, great training/tutorial mode, and interesting gameplay concepts. On the other hand, the game was developed through kickstarter funds. So unless every indie game gets this level of public funding, I don't know. Even then, could Lab Zero Games develop a game like SCV, TTT2, MvC3 or SFIV with the same level of funds they had for Skullgirls. I don't think they could.

Edit: Also should mention, no insult intended for Lab Zero Games. They are a passionate team and it shows.
 
E

El Sloth

Banned
Went to a local fighting game session to play some Street Fighter today. Ended up playing UNiEL the entire day instead. Welp.

Orie is pretty cool. Some of her moves give me Rose vibes. God bless autocombos for hour 1 play.
 
M

mollipen

Member
Village said:
As far as the bolded goes, I think poison is fine. I would warn you though.. that argument can easily be thrown in the opposite direction.
Click to expand...

Oh, trust me, the potentially hypocrisy of my statement wasn't lost on me. Still, I think the conversations aren't equal—what the majority want and what the minority want shouldn't always be taken equally.

Like, let's say that Street Fighter had far fewer black characters than it has now, and then Capcom decided to bring Birdie back. But, in doing so, they reverted him back to being white. White players might be like, "yeah, I can relate to him more now!", while black players might be like, "wait, the game doesn't need more white characters, so why are you taking one of our few black characters away?" In that case, I'd say one side is being justifiably selfish, while the other isn't (and is arguing over "keeping to their real origins" over a character they probably cared little about in the first place).

When one side has disproportionately less than the other, I think that skews the argument.
 
F

fader

Member
anyone know how to limit fps on KOF pc? i have a 144 monitor and this game is running at 120 fps and its way to fast.

shidoshi said:
Oh, trust me, the potentially hypocrisy of my statement wasn't lost on me. Still, I think the conversations aren't equal—what the majority want and what the minority want shouldn't always be taken equally.

Like, let's say that Street Fighter had far fewer black characters than it has now, and then Capcom decided to bring Birdie back. But, in doing so, they reverted him back to being white. White players might be like, "yeah, I can relate to him more now!", while black players might be like, "wait, the game doesn't need more white characters, so why are you taking one of our few black characters away?" In that case, I'd say one side is being justifiably selfish, while the other isn't (and is arguing over "keeping to their real origins" over a character they probably cared little about in the first place).

When one side has disproportionately less than the other, I think that skews the argument.
Click to expand...

naaaww. i think we got use to white washing now and days.
kidding
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
LMAO at that Eventhubs shit. That site is a parody of itself.

shidoshi said:
Few reasons.

One, she's one of the few prominent trans characters there are. Is she the best representation that there could be? Absolutely not. But when you're choice is between "something" and "nothing", you'll often take something.

Second, while her design is a little questionable, Poison is also typically portrayed as a strong, independent, doesn't-care-what-other-people-think-of-her type of character. I like that about her. And it's something that is no doubt debatable, but she's also a character that I see as being in control of her sexuality. She's not portrayed as dressing like that for someone else's benefit—she does because she wants to.

So, yeah, part of it is that she's one of only a few choices out there, so there isn't much to pick from. But give what choices are out there and what choices we could have, Poison isn't actually that bad of a character. She is who she is, she kicks ass, she's tough, and she does what she wants.

Really, by far the worse thing about Poison isn't the character herself, but the way Capcom has totally back off of supporting who she was for 20+ years.
Click to expand...

Yep you were the person I was hoping would answer when I asked that, and that's a good answer. Makes complete sense.

"Pervert" was probably a bad word to use on my part.
 
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