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[Sword Familiar]

I miss secret characters. I don't dare hope for them though, since we haven't really seen any since FFVII.

 

[THE Caffeinated]

I miss secret characters. I don't dare hope for them though, since we haven't really seen any since FFVII.

I liked how they never appeared in any of the FMV sequences, I like to think that both Vincent and Yuffie stayed behind in the crater as everyone else left.

 

[Vrakanox]

Yeah I liked secret characters too, although I can definately see why they did away with them. I still used them.

 

[Green Mamba]

I prefer a smaller cast. The smaller it is the less I have to think about what characters to use.

 

[Perfect Blue]

I prefer a smaller cast. The smaller it is the less I have to think about what characters to use.

Word. Plus it gives the main cast room to develop as characters, rather than having a lot of shallow characters with no character development.

 

[Vrakanox]

Word. Plus it gives the main cast room to develop as characters, rather than having a lot of shallow characters with no character development.

But isn't it more impressive when they have a large well developed cast

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Heck they might as well throw in Serah also and give her a cool summon too. Lots of JRPGs these days have lots of characters that are interesting and even ones with smaller casts have excellent characters. I'm talking mainly of the "Tales of" series here (they usually have about 7-9). Just imagine what SE could do with their budget.

Of course that's all opinion based, maybe I'm just old school. Honestly anything over like 11 or 12 characters is usually too much for me. I did like the suikodens though.

We are talking of opinions of course so my rebuttal to this is, just like this entire discussion, is based on opinions.

The smaller the cast of characters, the more comprehensive the characterization can be. With a game as huge as FFXIII, the amount of resources that might be shifted for exposition and creation of another character, can and should be used to strengthen the depth of those already in the game. Having Vincent and Yuffie in FFVII was cool, they were memorable characters, but their contribution to the overall narrative could be summed up in a couple of pages of script. Give me fleshed out, fully realized characters over throwaway "secret" characters any day.

 

[Vrakanox]

I prefer a smaller cast. The smaller it is the less I have to think about what characters to use.

I think the reason they do it is so you can have a choice. Otherwise they would just give you 3 or 4 characters and make you use all of them right?

 

[gamergirly]

Word. Plus it gives the main cast room to develop as characters, rather than having a lot of shallow characters with no character development.

Yup. You dont want just 3 fully developed characters and nothing else but sidekicks who pop up as "needed" for story progression or "die" to help the main characters develop more. Everytime I put a character in my party, I want them to have a certain amount of individuality, especially in battle and plot

 

[cosmicblizzard]

You're basically saying you hope she doesn't go bipolar tsundere, which is an understandable concern.

Nah, she's already mostly a tsundere character. I'm talking full on personality shift ala Luke from TOTA.

 

[Vrakanox]

We are talking of opinions of course so my rebuttal to this is, just like this entire discussion, is based on opinions.

The smaller the cast of characters, the more comprehensive the characterization can be. With a game as huge as FFXIII, the amount of resources that might be shifted for exposition and creation of another character, can and should be used to strengthen the depth of those already in the game. Having Vincent and Yuffie in FFVII was cool, they were memorable characters, but their contribution to the overall narrative could be summed up in a couple of pages of script. Give me fleshed out, fully realized characters over throwaway "secret" characters any day.

Yes this is actually very true in fact I've thought about it a lot myself. Instead of perhaps having 12 characters that are shallow you could kind of combine them to make 6 more interesting characters. I still believe though it's more impressive when they have a larger cast with more depth.

Also a big thing of it is whether or not they succeed. If they succeed in making 6 amazing characters I'm fine with it. But if they fail I always think to myself they could have added more. Sometimes it's better that way then scrapping everything and starting from scratch. For one person a failed character might be to another person an amazing character. Think Cloud Strife :lol

On the plus side I just found 20 dollars

 

[Perfect Blue]

But isn't it more impressive when they have a large well developed cast

Well that would be awesome yes, but only a few games achieved that outside of Suikoden II.

 

[Vrakanox]

Well that would be awesome yes, but only a few games achieved that outside of Suikoden II.

And that's exactly why Suikoden 2 very well may be my favorite RPG of all time :lol

 

[Plywood]

I wish the max you could have in your party was however many people you have.

Or 5/10 ... just drop the traditional 3 permanently after FFXIII.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

I wish the max you could have in your party was however many people you have.

Or 5/10 ... just drop the traditional 3 permanently after FFXIII.

Its bounced around ever since FFVII, who knows if it will ever stay consistent :lol

 

[lorddarkflare]

The trouble with Ashe is that she is, for a large part, another gear in the machine that makes up FFXII, and reflects the overall product, as do the other aspects of the game, as well as the other characters. That's pretty much my whole argument. Yes, ultimately, they all fall short, but in terms of premise and potential? There was a lot more going for her and the rest of the cast than what actually happened.

Also, I am in complete shock and surprise that you liked Rikku. That's so uncharacteristic of you :lol let alone BROTHER :lol :lol

Well i am a very complex man. :lol

I did not like them because they were deep characters, nor do i claim that they are particularly good. I liked them because they were fun, and no preteses were made.

As for Ashe, i can only analyze what is there. We can certainly extrapolate, but...

 

[Sword Familiar]

I always thought 4 battle members was the ideal size. FFIV's 5 was a crowd. 3 works, but it leaves something left to be desired, except for maybe CT. Suikoden I/II's 6 works because they attack at the same time and the battle system is really simple (and fast!). It would probably be a bit too much if you had more options in the menus.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I liked how they never appeared in any of the FMV sequences, I like to think that both Vincent and Yuffie stayed behind in the crater as everyone else left.

Canonically, Vincent and Yuffie stayed behind to help evacuate Midgar. :lol

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Yes this is actually very true in fact I've thought about it a lot myself. Instead of perhaps having 12 characters that are shallow you could kind of combine them to make 6 more interesting characters. I still believe though it's more impressive when they have a larger cast with more depth.

What they aim to do and what they are able to do are sadly two entirely different things. I may have small qualms about the cast as it stands now, but I'm confident their depth will be explored well enough. The spin the narrative has on being bound by fate is quite fascinating, especially since most of the cast is so totally against it :lol

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Well i am a very complex man. :lol

I did not like them because they were deep characters, nor do i claim that they are particularly good. I liked them because they were fun, and no preteses were made.

As for Ashe, i can only analyze what is there. We can certainly extrapolate, but...

Ah, so you're into the fun hyperactive characters. I'm actually getting that kind of vibe from Vanille. Perhaps you'll warm up to her.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Well i am a very complex man. :lol

Man, how old are you? :lol

 

[lorddarkflare]

Nah, she's already mostly a tsundere character. I'm talking full on personality shift ala Luke from TOTA.

Oh god, please do not force me to defend Luke.

Also, i think that i might make the discussion thread tonight(currently in class), we really need it.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Oh god, please do not force me to defend Luke.

Also, i think that i might make the discussion thread tonight(currently in class), we really need it.

Yeah, there's still moments where his old self seeps through, but you gotta admit the complete shift was a little ridiculous. Stuff like that needs to be gradual. Of course, this isn't the thread for that.

And indeed we do need that discussion thread. Kagari probably hates all of us by now :lol

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

And indeed we do need that discussion thread. Kagari probably hates all of us by now :lol

She's at work, it should be done before she gets home! :lol

 

[gamergirly]

I always thought 4 battle members was the ideal size. FFIV's 5 was a crowd. 3 works, but it leaves something left to be desired, except for maybe CT. Suikoden I/II's 6 works because they attack at the same time and the battle system is really simple (and fast!). It would probably be a bit too much if you had more options in the menus.

It's always either 3 or 4. 6 is ideal. But 8 or 10? Crazy

 

[Perfect Blue]

And that's exactly why Suikoden 2 very well may be my favorite RPG of all time :lol

It's definetly in my Top 10 RPGs, and I would love for FFXIII to be like that, but I'll take the small main cast over a bunch of blank slates any day of the week.

 

[lorddarkflare]

Yeah, there's still moments where his old self seeps through, but you gotta admit the complete shift was a little ridiculous. Stuff like that needs to be gradual. Of course, this isn't the thread for that.

And indeed we do need that discussion thread. Kagari probably hates all of us by now :lol

While the writing was uneven and sorely needed work, Luke's transition was believable because

Spoiler

he just killed thousands of people

.

What really made it work was that he shifted to the complete opposite of the spectrum and that is the sort of reaction that you would expect from a real person after they did what he did(unless he/she is a psychopath).

Man, how old are you? :lol

I will have you know that in awesomeville--from whence i hail--i can legall drink next year.

 

[Kazenone]

Meh.

I think a character's value lies much beyond how 'badass' he/she looks, so i am having some trouble agreeing.

Besides, we already have a pretty balanced party.

Sazh = Clown (hidden badass, and resident old person)
Snow = Eternally optimistic idealist (stupid shounen hero)
Fang = Conflicted badass and sexual object (dat ASS)
Hope = Young Kid/Angst machine (definitely getting a lesson on why revenge is bad)
Vanille = Fun loving happy chick with mysterious/dark past
Lightning = Leading badass (complete with emotion suppression and lame backstory, guaranteed to have issues with Snow and Fang)

I don't think we know enough about the characters to probably label them like that (Well, I personally don't think I know them well enough so..) but they fit into my FF Character Personality table relatively well:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddrh89ft_29rxw6bhg

 

[Sword Familiar]

So, how about those "new" famitsu scans? I especially like the picture were Lightning & Fang stand back to back in-battle. Is that how pincer attacks will work now?

Edit: btw,

It's always either 3 or 4. 6 is ideal. But 8 or 10? Crazy

I can't tell if you're just being sarcastic or not, but it WOULD be interesting to see how 10 controllable characters in a battle party would play out.

 

[lorddarkflare]

I don't think we know enough about the characters to probably label them like that (Well, I personally don't think I know them well enough so..) but they fit into my FF Character Personality table relatively well:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddrh89ft_29rxw6bhg

I think we reasonably can, besides, my classifications are pretty shallow.

Also, that chart is both super nerdy and super awesome.

And now, i must go back to paying attention to my ethics professor.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Characterization is essentially the only spoilers left in the game. Besides plot points and the inevitable betrayal, the links/bonds the characters share with each other and with their world is what will fuel most of the narrative in the finished game. That's why the Episode Zero chapters are so interesting. It shows the links, in the first book, between Snow, Serah, Lightning and Team Nora. Book Two deals with Hope and his obvious Daddy issues. So far it is interesting enough.

I'm really hoping Jihl is the major antagonist, not some ridiculous puppet and I hope she is absolutely insane.

 

[Darkpen]

I don't think we know enough about the characters to probably label them like that (Well, I personally don't think I know them well enough so..) but they fit into my FF Character Personality table relatively well:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddrh89ft_29rxw6bhg

Honestly, I feel like Lightning's character is more appropriate to be placed in the anti-hero column more than princess heroine, as "princess" kind of implies a sort of daintiness or traditionally feminine elegance.

Characterization is essentially the only spoilers left in the game. Besides plot points and the inevitable betrayal, the links/bonds the characters share with each other and with their world is what will fuel most of the narrative in the finished game. That's why the Episode Zero chapters are so interesting. It shows the links, in the first book, between Snow, Serah, Lightning and Team Nora. Book Two deals with Hope and his obvious Daddy issues. So far it is interesting enough.

I'm really hoping Jihl is the major antagonist, not some ridiculous puppet and I hope she is absolutely insane.

Insane in what way, though? Even Vayne and Seymour ended up being mildly validated, though misguided in their ways.

 

[Plywood]

I just want Jihl to be batshit insane for absolutely no reason.

 

[gamergirly]

I can't tell if you're just being sarcastic or not, but it WOULD be interesting to see how 10 controllable characters in a battle party would play out.

Chaos lol

Honestly, I feel like Lightning's character is more appropriate to be placed in the anti-hero column more than princess heroine, as "princess" kind of implies a sort of daintiness or traditionally feminine elegance.
Insane in what way, though? Even Vayne and Seymour ended up being mildly validated, though misguided in their ways.

She's like Cloud in many ways. A reluctant hero with a dark past. It's interesting that she served as a high rank in the Cocoon military. What did she discover that made her leave? And why exactly has she been prophecised to bring about "The End of The World"?? Questions.....

Will say that it's a heck of a background for a character to have before you even played the game

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I don't think we know enough about the characters to probably label them like that (Well, I personally don't think I know them well enough so..) but they fit into my FF Character Personality table relatively well:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddrh89ft_29rxw6bhg

How the hell is Cecil an anti-hero?

If anything, Lightning is this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LadyOfWar.

"Basically, the Lady of War is a female fighter who retains an air of grace and reserve not usually associated with violence. If not an actual princess, she tends to be otherwise highly placed, or at least look and act like it. If she's not a gentle-mannered Yamato Nadeshiko, she may be Tall Dark And Bishoujo or arrogant and generally prissy and might become subject to a Defrosting Ice Queen scenario. Often, she's simply The Stoic."

Or if that's too specific, they could place her as a female Stoic.

The chart is okay but there are way more tropes that go with FF characters.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Insane in what way, though? Even Vayne and Seymour ended up being mildly validated, though misguided in their ways.

It runs counter to everything I've said about depth of characterization but sometimes an insane, not only evil but absolutely steadfast in their dedication to whatever their goal might be. It can be argued that an antagonist with too little depth is one sided and archaic, but what of an antagonist who's mechanization is based on "mere" emotions such as loneliness or pride? Not EVERY villain has to be a paradigm of evil, but it's been a while since we've had a truly ice cold foe, dedicated to their goal, no matter the cost. Hell, they might PREFER that others suffer as a means to an end.

Examples:

Orginzation XIII: The antagonists of the Kingdom Hearts series, killing others and taking the hearts of others. At the same time, this group of Nobodies only wanted to have hearts again, to regain who they once where. Bad? Yes. Evil? Eh....

Kefka: Bat shit fucking insane. Some people just want to see the world burn. Kefka was one of them.

 

[Zoe]

She's like Cloud in many ways. A reluctant hero with a dark past.

Dark past? Hardly. Her single mother died when she was a teenager, oh no! It's nowhere near comparable to what made Cloud go looney.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Orginzation XIII: The antagonists of the Kingdom Hearts series, killing others and taking the hearts of others. At the same time, this group of Nobodies only wanted to have hearts again, to regain who they once where. Bad? Yes. Evil? Eh....

Orgy is evil, they commit assholish deeds just for self serving purposes. "Getting me and my friends mutual partners some hearts" isn't noble.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Orgy is evil, they commit assholish deeds just for self serving purposes. "Getting me and my friends mutual partners some hearts" isn't noble.

The Founding Members and Castle Oblivion Researchers MAYBE. The point isn't so much that what they did was evil, more that behind most (save the Founding Members) of the members motivation is the want, the pining for their hearts.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The Founding Members and Castle Oblivion Researchers MAYBE. The point isn't so much that what they did was evil, more that behind most (save the Founding Members) of the members motivation is the want, the pining for their hearts.

Self serving reasons.

You really think someone as sadistic as Larxene or deceitful as Makruxia would give a fuck if they were the only ones to get their hearts back? No. They don't give a fuck, they wanted what they wanted and didn't care who was hurt. That is, by definition, evil.

You could argue for Axel(and Roxas obviously), maybe even Demyx.

But everyone else was a total asshole.

Man we are going off topic.

 

[gamergirly]

Dark past? Hardly. Her single mother died when she was a teenager, oh no! It's nowhere near comparable to what made Cloud go looney.

Alot more than her mother dying caused her to become a closed, resentful person. Also, it's hard to compare Cloud and Lightning completely since we KNOW everything about Cloud but not Lightning. They are similar for what we do know. They both started the game on campaigns with a dark sky looming above their head like something was wrong. With attitudes. Both have swords(although Lightning's sword is more like a gun attached to it). And both look alike.

I think they did more than just make them look alike.....there's a sense of a similar symbolism here. Who knows, maybe she has some Sephiroth lookalike from PSICOM waiting for her in Cocoon somewhere :lol

 

[Cedille]

I think this will turn out to be the first FF soundtrack I'd go with the normal edition. More than 1000JPY for a Drama and blah is ridiculous.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I just want Jihl to be batshit insane for absolutely no reason.

Thank you! More batshit insane females in RPGs plz! I will not let this go until we have a female Albedo on our hands.

 

[Zoe]

Alot more than her mother dying caused her to become a closed, resentful person.

Have you read the prologue?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Have you read the prologue?

It's a bit more than that, but yeah I agree that she still has nothing on Cloud.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Self serving reasons.

You really think someone as sadistic as Larxene or deceitful as Makruxia would give a fuck if they were the only ones to get their hearts back? No. They don't give a fuck, they wanted what they wanted and didn't care who was hurt. That is, by definition, evil.

You could argue for Axel(and Roxas obviously), maybe even Demyx.

But everyone else was a total asshole.

Man we are going off topic.

Can we add to that FF topic Lord is gonna make KH talk too >.<! I have a comment to make on this but it's off topic!

We shall not fail Kagari again.

 

[Zoe]

I think this will turn out to be the first FF soundtrack I'd go with the normal edition. More than 1000JPY for a Drama and blah is ridiculous.

Where'd you find the OST info?

Edit: nvm: http://www.neowing.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=SQEX-10178

 

[esbern]

i prefer more characters, b/c square has, for somet time now, consistently made at least 1/4 of the characters annoying as fuck and i would love nothing more to not have to deal with the over and over again.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

i prefer more characters, b/c square has, for somet time now, consistently made at least 1/4 of the characters annoying as fuck and i would love nothing more to not have to deal with the over and over again.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[gamergirly]

Have you read the prologue?

What prologue? Outside of numerous character summaries, I haven't seen anything like that. Do you have an English link?