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Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia |OT|
- Thread starter Draxal
- Start date
Pretty much. Back then, I had only played Blazing Sword and Shadow Dragon before trying out Awakening and I never even noticed or cared that it had "bad map design". The only thing that kinda stood out to me was how you didn't need to Seize any of the maps. From what I've played Echoes could be a pretty good first entry.
Unless said person is already a SPRG veteran, in which case they might pay more attention to mission objectives, design and stuff like that. But in that case, Awakening isn't the best 1st entry either so it's kind of a moot point.
Does it require items to promote again? I've had numerous units tell me they are ready to be promoted, but don't seem to see a menu option. Also thanks for the answer about missable recruits.
While I'm asking every question, and hopefully this will be the last one, Do I have to worry about any kind of time limit? I noticed the game is keeping track of the date and it is very possible for me to waste days and advance time.
VV Thank you.
You do all promotions at Mila shrines. With one exception that you don't need to worry about since it happens automatically past a certain story point
Wow, that sucks.
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The staff at Nintendo and others were saying things like ”With such results, do not release another title on a home console."DAMN Nintendo has no chill. "Get out, you're not allowed to play on our console pool anymore" lol
psychowave
Member
As has been mentioned, promote everyone as soon as possible when you reach a Mila statue. Otherwise the game does a pretty good job of telling you everything you need to know about its mechanics. I guess a good tip for when you promote your villagers is to have some class variety (i.e. don't make everyone a mercenary or something like that), but most people probably do that by instinct anyway.
I don't think the date influences anything. Pretty sure it's just there for flavor.
They went above and beyond fixing the lackluster script. A notable change that comes to mind is how they rewrote Corrin's dialogue if you side with Nohr. In the Japanese version, they're like "I don't know why, but I have to side with them" which should speak volumes. The english version expands on Corrin's desire to stand by the family that raised them. And the entire game is like that. Little writing edits that make a huge difference in practice. Dialogue is more snappy and more witty instead of being plain and to the point, and the characters generally sound less dumb.
Characterization on the whole was improved considerably. Camilla's pretty blatant with her pandering, but the localization made her sassy and gave her a voice. She's so limp in the Japanese version. Forrest is completely different as well, and way better in the NA version. And I haven't even touched the supports, which are like 5x better. We all know about Soleil, but Forrest's support with Male Corrin were total garbage. Everyone likes to harp on Saizo x Beruka, but nobody realizes the length's treehouse went to injecting life into the original supports, which were incredibly basic. Also iirc the mother x child dialogue in the Japanese version were completely boilerplate, while NA localization adds some personality to them.
And changing Female Corrin's endings so that she didn't end being the "wife" to her husband was a good move.
NeonZ
Member
That wasn't added by the localization though. The comment about how he's siding with them because they're the family he grew up with was in the original, as well as Xander's words of encouragement afterwards about how they're family. In fact, like with most dialogue relevant to the main story, the translation there stays very close to the original text, down to common expressions seen in Japanese text like "X is unforgivable".
The only additions there are replacements for a few one word sentences from the original, like when Corrin just goes "Ryoma...!" in the original, in the Treehouse version he talks about how he's making a sorrowful decision. However, something like that is a rather questionable addition since it's just giving even more focus to an element people already disliked about the original (Conquest Corrin often regretting his choice).
All that immediately disappears when they're talking about plot relevant elements though, resulting in exposition scenes that were still very dry.
Camilla basically has the same personality in both. She gets some snappier dialogue in supports or for some one liners in the main story, but that's not really a personality change.
Forrest was completely revamped, but that ties into my complaint above. They did something like that for him because he's an irrelevant character who doesn't even appear in the main story. Not only changing his personality, even the entire context around him (Foleo originally had to deal with society itself seeing him negatively, while with Forrest it's basically only his father). In comparison, they were plain lazy when touching on the main story, often going with stilted direct translations.
Nah, people noticed that the mother's answers were more varied than the ones from Awakening's fathers even before the game was localized.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Damn this Nuibaba fight!
I'm thinking about cheesing and having Gray rush in and kill her and however many others he can before he dies, then use that revival spring to bring him back---there's only one per scenario, right? But I don't know if there's a penalty for reviving a unit, and if I'll need it more.
So I guess for now I'll grind up my Pegasus Knights a bit so they can get in there too.
I'm thinking about cheesing and having Gray rush in and kill her and however many others he can before he dies, then use that revival spring to bring him back---there's only one per scenario, right? But I don't know if there's a penalty for reviving a unit, and if I'll need it more.
So I guess for now I'll grind up my Pegasus Knights a bit so they can get in there too.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
good rule of thumb for tough bosses: warp a good unit in and then rescue them out
DecoReturns
Member
So how was the Story DLC?
Worth it?
I actually Enjoyed Awakenings Future past one and the few of the Fates kids DLC.
Worth it?
I actually Enjoyed Awakenings Future past one and the few of the Fates kids DLC.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I didn't make Faye a Cleric so I don't have rescue, just warp.
Is it though? Adding more depth to a flat character seems like a good idea to me, especially since the choice Corrin is making has a ton of baggage.
Sure, but the bulk of the dialogue comes in the form of characters talking to each other, and that stuff generally reads better.
I didn't say her personality changed; it's her characterization that was improved for the better. And it's not even just her; characters feel better across the board. From Leo (removing incest) to Arthur (removing perversions), they're all more likeable.
Man I really disagree with calling it stilted. Maybe they could have gone harder on the ye old English that the series is known for, but stilted? And I think revamping the story would have been a major undertaking (one that's arguably not worth it). The way I see it, they deserve credit for making changes at all.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
changes like completely removing the unique same sex romance support conversations and instead copy and pasting straight versions for those characters. Yea, well done
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
I beat N
already, but now I'm wondering if I should pick the blessed or silver shield. Is one better for a certain playstyle or character?
uibaba
My two cents on Fates: as someone who has played both the Treehouse and the fan-translated version of Fates, I'd take the Treehouse version any day. Yeah, there are some questionable decisions, but it's far more enjoyable to read than the bland fan translation.
Not sure if it's a good idea, but I picked the blessed shield and sent it over to Celica's party. It's been helping out a lot on Celica's route.
Not sure if it's a good idea, but I picked the blessed shield and sent it over to Celica's party. It's been helping out a lot on Celica's route.
See, this is exactly what I mean. People cherry-pick the localization and pretend the entire thing is fucked from the ground up because of a aspects they disagree with. It's not even that egregious either; they replaced the original same sex romance supports because each of them were set up with "oh me liking is you is kinda weird and unnatural, huh?" which is obviously something they wanted to avoid.
They should have written brand new dialogue, but I understand why they copied it for both genders. With a few exceptions (children/corrinsexuals), Male and Female Corrin have identical supports. So the idea is that there shouldn't be a difference between Female Corrin and Male Corrin when it comes to romancing Niles/Rhajat. All love is the same, regardless of sex. The "issue" is that were deprived of unique conversations, so it's ultimately a misguided change, but I respect the effort.
Jawmuncher
Member
Act 4 as Celica can go to hell. I finished it (barely).
There's a time where you should ditch the NES roots. Thus far, that's been the biggest case of dling so. I can't imagine how y'all playing on normal are dealing with that shit outside grinding.
There's a time where you should ditch the NES roots. Thus far, that's been the biggest case of dling so. I can't imagine how y'all playing on normal are dealing with that shit outside grinding.
This is my first FE game and I'm really loving it. It feels like there is very little "filler content" which i like. Every battle I've been in has had a purpose / was memorable, the battle system has required me to think about my moves but hasn't been so difficult/complex that I've felt overwhelmed, the story seems pretty run of the mill but the writing and characters are so good I'm ok with it.
i dont really know how this compares to the other FE games but I'm really glad I jumped in here. Makes me want to pick up Awakening/Fates after this. (plus gets me pumped for the Switch FE)
Cow Mengde
Banned
I think even from the simple NES art, she always looked like a spunky kid. Now she has the writing to back it up.
Elaugaufein
Member
This game is the odd duck in the series. Its an early game so it lacks some of the defining stuff and it did a lot of experimental stuff and not much of that was carried on in a recognisable form.
Mage Faye continues to amaze me, she has two more defence than Lukas(!), who is a knight. Is is even normal? I guess all the chasing after Alm gives her thick skin lol.
Game is a breeze at this point, I just charge Faye into enemy crowd, while everyone else hide behind her, poking occasionally to steal some exp.
Game is a breeze at this point, I just charge Faye into enemy crowd, while everyone else hide behind her, poking occasionally to steal some exp.
Really good.
It fleshes out the Deliverence a whole bunch and some of the maps are a nice break from the norm. Plus Fernand being Fernand. I swear him and Berkut are among the best Fire Emblem villains based on voice alone haha.
Definitelly worth it if you liked the story and characters. The Lukas and Forsyth support is one of the best in the game, and Pythons snarking continues to make me laugh.
Aveyn Knight
Member
I still think it's kinda ironic though.
Stuff like the world map, villagers, branched and multiple tier promotions, monsters, etc. that people know from Awakening and Fates actually came from Gaiden.
Granted, there's an equal amount of stuff that never appeared again like dungeons, spells costing HP, crazy ass Archers, etc.
Labrynian Rebel
Member
Actually the non-complicated maps might actually be easier for people new to Fire Emblem to get into.
woopWOOP
Member
Hey, I chose Deen!
Tho to be honest it was mostly because I already went with Sonya in Gaiden
and that's mostly because Deen's portrait was so stupid in Gaiden. That Polnareff hair doesn't work manOn that note
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[IMG]https://s24.postimg.org/5if27rj5h/Vrai_Echoes_Portrait.png[/IMG]Speaking of Archers, I hope they at least keep the 3 range as the default one, and 4 for the high tier weapons. Cut their attack in half for 1 range combat or make their accuracy lower the farther they are from their target, keep it 2-3 / 2-4 instead of 1-3, I dunno, just do something about them. Being stuck with 2 range with no close quarters combat in games where pretty much everyone has 1-2 is pretty pathetic, at least givem them a bigger range. It's even worse in a game where Ninjas are a thing. What's their advantage even supposed to be?
Hey, I chose Deen!
Tho to be honest it was mostly because I already went with Sonya in Gaiden
At least it gave him something distinctive. Echoes Deen is completely forgettable.
NeonZ
Member
There were 1 range and 1-2 range bows in Fates. although due to being very limited, there were many restrictions around them, like no stronger versions, basically being unable to forge stronger ones, and being available only to a limited number of characters because there just weren't enough to go around for multiple archers. I think if they had been categorized as standard weapons, like the javelins, it'd solve that issue though.
I chose Sonya because she was sexy and a mage and I wanted a sexy mage to complete the mage squad I was building up on Celica's side. I kinda regret it; for one, Deen is like 3x better as a unit and I ended up really liking his design.
dreamlongdead
Member
There doesn't seem to be a penalty for retreating besides slightly lower bonus EXP. So can some of you tell me why you simply aren't using that option? The game seems designed around it.
I'm playing on Hard/Classic, and I basically have to kill the Cantors and exit to avoid casualties.
The game is enjoyable despite the shaky source material. Its pros and cons have been thoroughly discussed, so I just want IS to build off of what they did here for future projects.
I'm playing on Hard/Classic, and I basically have to kill the Cantors and exit to avoid casualties.
The game is enjoyable despite the shaky source material. Its pros and cons have been thoroughly discussed, so I just want IS to build off of what they did here for future projects.
Honestly the only bows I found useful in fates that weren't Fuujin Yumi were the shinning bows. And the shining bows where absolutely crazy if you gave them to Nina or Anna.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Between the turnwheel and retreating I find myself in a funny position where this is an extremely unfair FE game on occasions (witches warping in an KOing units) yet also a fairly easy entry due to those. Disclaimer: I've not reached the final act
and seen if it is still a point of no return
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Whoa, that is 100% Deen's Gaiden design.Hey, I chose Deen!
Tho to be honest it was mostly because I already went with Sonya in Gaiden
On that note
It's kinda neat that they made one boss character very similar to the old boss portraits, but something about his symmetric scars and wide eyes are really weirding me outCode:[IMG]https://s24.postimg.org/5if27rj5h/Vrai_Echoes_Portrait.png[/IMG]
Whoa, that is 100% Deen's Gaiden design.Where is this in the game?
It's used for the boss Blake, the other character that used that portrait in the original game.
NeonZ
Member
Whoa, that is 100% Deen's Gaiden design.Where is this in the game?
Blake, a chapter 3 boss (Celica side). He was originally a pallet swap of Deen.
Edit: Wait, not a pallet swap. I forgot Deen only was blond in the artwork.
Blake, a chapter 3 boss (Celica side). He was originally a pallet swap of Deen.
Edit: Wait, not a pallet swap. I forgot Deen only was blond in the artwork.
Blake actually is a palette swap in gaiden, but he's like, just two shades darker. You really can't tell unless you put the portraits right next to each other.
Linkstrikesback
Member
I strongly disagree with that notion.
Yeah retreat + turnwheel break the game wide open. Those two mechanics remove any semblance of difficulty.
1-range weapons for archers were terrible though, and not many archers can take proper advantage of the shining bow. Even then they're completely outclassed by Ninjas and Butlers who get better 1-2 options and their own magical weapon on top of debuffs, effective weapons against cavalry/armors and a 3-range option, so what's even the point of bows? Taking out one flier per player phase once in a while I guess lol
The next game should either give them better range or make most bows 1-2. There's no point in restricting archers when the games give you plenty 1-2 weapons anyway. I'd personally prefer the former though, as it makes more sense for the class to have the highest reach, or even a mix of both options with some 1-2 bows and some 2-3, 2/3-4.
Immaculate
Banned
Grieth's citadel was the map that finally made me hate the map design in this game
The usefulness of archers (or most classes really) in Fire Emblem games is tied to several things. One being the importance of the player phase. The second being one's base stats, where archers typically draw the short straw. The two put together means you have a unit that only initially offers chip damage and can't naturally gain the required exp to improve their offensive parameters since they're solely a player phase unit. Which means they quickly fall behind the rest of your army unless you intentionally feed them exp.
In FE6 Hard Mode, archers are very useful as they're one of the few units in the game that can severely hurt or one round wyvern riders/lords with reliability. In FE12, they're useful because melee units two shot the majority of your army.
You don't need to increase the range of bows to make them useful. IS just needs to develop scenarios where an archer is more useful than Radiant Dawn Ike killing everything during the enemy phase.
In FE6 Hard Mode, archers are very useful as they're one of the few units in the game that can severely hurt or one round wyvern riders/lords with reliability. In FE12, they're useful because melee units two shot the majority of your army.
You don't need to increase the range of bows to make them useful. IS just needs to develop scenarios where an archer is more useful than Radiant Dawn Ike killing everything during the enemy phase.
Revival springs bring back any playable character that died ever.*
*(I think before the postgame they'll only revive units from the current party: ex: if Silque dies she can't be revived by Celica visiting a revival shrine but she can be revived when Alm visits one)
woopWOOP
Member
I hope the mechanics for Mila's Turnwheel make an (optional?) return in the future. Being able to try different strategies in Hard/Classic without losing much progress when things turn south is pretty great. Playing casual mode and just throwing your units towards the enemy without a care just isn't the same.
It's annoying that you still get an instant game over when your main leader croaks tho. Like what just happened to me. After roaming around that death mountain dungeon for a good 30 minutes and doing one final skirmish before saving and exiting. ffffffuck
By the way, I really like the variation in protraits for all the boss commanders in Echoes. I kind of expected to see a couple of copies or recolours for those that only have a couple of lines for their battle, but so far they're all very different. It's nice.
It's annoying that you still get an instant game over when your main leader croaks tho. Like what just happened to me. After roaming around that death mountain dungeon for a good 30 minutes and doing one final skirmish before saving and exiting. ffffffuck
I thought there were a couple more that used the same silly portrait, but apparently they're a bit different:
By the way, I really like the variation in protraits for all the boss commanders in Echoes. I kind of expected to see a couple of copies or recolours for those that only have a couple of lines for their battle, but so far they're all very different. It's nice.
Aveyn Knight
Member
They are stuck with their Cleric spell list.