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Firewatch | Spoiler Discussion

Trigker

Member
Now that I think about it, it was to be expected from the devs of
Gone Home
(name of a game).

Yeah, maybe.

Everybody felt a little """dizzy""" about the ending at first, you just expect a big twist that never happens.
Just like everybody, i feel there's something missing in terms of secrets or secondary plot lines but in the end i'm very happy i paid full price.
 
It's not really nitpicking, to explain it properly, the game is trying to sell me an idea and I can't buy it if there isn't a cohesiveness to the environment and if the characters in the story that inhibit this environment don't follow the same rules atleast when it comes to story (not gameplay, so instances where enemies take a lot of bullets during gameplay or have unlimited ammo is ignored). Even then most games have this issue, but it gets a based games.

Anyways we are talking about fences here not an area such as the forest. Scouting the fences is not something that would require intricate knowledge of the environment/forest, as such I can't really discount the game here. I walked around all the fence on the other side and the side you enter from. If there is a hole that someone else can use to do stuff and yet my character can't go through because of some plot pointer and instead I need to trek halfway across the map to find the thing that unlocks a door then that particular narrative really is no better than something like this.

If the game was realistically rendered (say, like Ethan Carter) then I might agree. But the art is much more abstract as are the distances and sense of time. So I'm fine that the game didn't render a loose section of fence.
 

Kid Ska

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Thinking more about it, the most satisfaction I got from this game was probably from throwing that radio into the lake.
 

CHC

Member
I wish the fence was like a 40 ft tall Jurassic Park style fence so I could more thoroughly buy the idea that Henry was not able to climb it.
 
I mean, how often do we get games daring enough to be just that? Just a story about people and their mistakes and foibles and all that? I think something like that should be celebrated. I loved the sense of tension and unnerving atmosphere the other aspects created, and was disappointed when I first finished the game, but in hindsight, I really appreciate it was just a simple intimate story that didn't need to switch gears and drop in aliens or some crazy meta twist. Games like that are rare


But there was no conspiracy. That whole notion that there was a conspiracy was just Henry and Delilah being paranoid, and you as the player feeling as confused and paranoid as them.

I know that, my problem is that the game focus so hard in convincing you that something is happening that seeing at the end that "it was nothing" feels like "why did you even try?". I was expecting a simple daring story, that's why I found the intro quite amazing and the first act but when it went all nuts the tone shifted, it woud've been ok to me if it would've paid off but they went back to "simple personal story" a place where they shouldn't have abandoned in the first place, and yes, I think they abandoned it in a way, not completely but it's true (I think) that you ended up worrying more about what's happening than the characters.
 

chris121580

Member
There was a piece of me really hoping for a serial killer. All signs pointed to that being a possibility until they said the girls were discovered. It still doesn't make sense to me why Ned hit Henry over the head and then ran off
 
I think I would have preferred the game not giving you a confession tape and here is why I did it all. It completely kill all the mystery they built up. I think not spelling everything out and leaving it up to the player would have been a better way to keep the mystery going and let people figure out what happened. A man with guilt or something else. Yet, the game explains pretty much everything and leaves nothing to the imagination. It's a bummer.
 

Trigker

Member
There was a piece of me really hoping for a serial killer. All signs pointed to that being a possibility until they said the girls were discovered. It still doesn't make sense to me why Ned hit Henry over the head and then ran off

To get his clipboard and walkie-talkie back
 

Poly-Gons

Neo Member
Really enjoyed the game. The design from Ollymoss is amazing. Except the intro the design is poor and doesn't match with the rest.

But I felt more like reading a book than playing a game sometimes. I would of appreciate a little more interaction on the story. None of my choices made a difference (even cleaning the beer can or put back some random signs on the floor). Just a document at the end from the National Park with random stats maybe ...

A second ending would of been better for me. The actual one which is ok for me and maybe one where my character begin to move on in is life bc he found somebody. I build up a new relationship with D for 3h, the end could of be the beginning of something. Something more positive maybe in the last conversation D give him a rdv at the Indian Museum that she talk about when you discover the circle of prayer. 2 tickets of the museum during the credits would of be enough for me.

Last thing i think everything you do is related to the main story. I would of love spending time doing random stuffs in this beautiful world ....
 
I mean, how often do we get games daring enough to be just that? Just a story about people and their mistakes and foibles and all that? I think something like that should be celebrated. I loved the sense of tension and unnerving atmosphere the other aspects created, and was disappointed when I first finished the game, but in hindsight, I really appreciate it was just a simple intimate story that didn't need to switch gears and drop in aliens or some crazy meta twist. Games like that are rare


But there was no conspiracy. That whole notion that there was a conspiracy was just Henry and Delilah being paranoid, and you as the player feeling as confused and paranoid as them.

I agree, and Im fine with the game flipping your expectations. But it does so in a way that detracts from the overall story IMO.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Thinking more about it, the most satisfaction I got from this game was probably from throwing that radio into the lake.

Completely missed that (along with the raccoons and the turtles, apparently) on my play through.

So what was the ultimate story with the rangers? I feel like I got most or all of their notes but the fact that they were never organized chronologically and I ended up with a lot more documents to shuffle made it hard to piece together.
 

oshiden

Neo Member
I really enjoyed the game but now that I'm thinking about it, is there any explanation why the radar detector would suddently start beeping from a day to another?
I mean why would it suddently search for the hidden bag that contains the cave's key?

Isn't the only reason because Ned turned on the beacon himself to eventually lead Henry to Brian's corpse?
Isn't at this exact moment that Ned decided to give up with his plan and just let them discover the truth?

I read here and there that Ned paniqued when he heard the alarm triggered by the hidden bag, but that would not explain why the detector was suddently active in the first place.
On the other hand, if Ned did activate the beacon in the hidden bag, why would he set an alarm behind the bag?
 
I really enjoyed the game but now that I'm thinking about it, is there any explanation why the radar detector would suddently start beeping from a day to another?
I mean why would it suddently search for the hidden bag that contains the cave's key?

Isn't the only reason because Ned turned on the beacon himself to eventually lead Henry to Brian's corpse?
Isn't at this exact moment that Ned decided to give up with his plan and just let them discover the truth?

I read here and there that Ned paniqued when he heard the alarm triggered by the hidden bag, but that would not explain why the detector was suddently active in the first place.
On the other hand, if Ned did activate the beacon in the hidden bag, why would he set an alarm behind the bag?

it feels like a giant plot hole to further make you think theres some big mystery.

Maybe ned wanted to lead you into the cave and kill you, since he locked the door. But now this guy who accidentally killed his son is a murderer? And even though that probably wouldnt work because he knows delilah knows where henry is.

Maybe ned just felt like leaving the key to the thing he was keeping so secret tied to an alarm.....why?

thats why i dont like the ending so much. i get its trying to say SEE no big mystery. But at the expense of a smart and logical plot.
 

Liamc723

Member
On the other hand, if Ned did activate the beacon in the hidden bag, why would he set an alarm behind the bag?

At the time, I assumed it was so that Henry and Delilah knew that whoever was watching them was onto them, in knowing that they had the keys to the cave. So that they could have set up a trap in there, maybe?

From the point of Ned, I think this is by far the most baffling plot point in the whole game. It makes no sense for him to just give them the key to the cave when he clearly doesn't want them to go down there.
 

IvanJ

Banned
Finished the game right now. Played about 3/4 of it last night and loved it, then came back to finish it up and was bitterly disappointed with the resolution.
I understand that some people like how it ended, but to me seemed so.... Well, my wife said it best: "You look so deflated!"

I just felt that the game was building up to a very emotional conclusion, but in the end I just received a pat on the back and "Off you go!"

But the one thing that repeats itself from Telltale games: Choices don't matter!
You go through the game, make choices, but they all converge to the single point anyway.

Most others elaborated a lot here, and I just don't feel like I should belabor the point.

Went in yesterday with high expectations, this was one of my most anticipated games for 2016, and now it's officially my first great disappointment of 2016.
 
Finished the game right now. Played about 3/4 of it last night and loved it, then came back to finish it up and was bitterly disappointed with the resolution.
I understand that some people like how it ended, but to me seemed so.... Well, my wife said it best: "You look so deflated!"

I just felt that the game was building up to a very emotional conclusion, but in the end I just received a pat on the back and "Off you go!"

But the one thing that repeats itself from Telltale games: Choices don't matter!
You go through the game, make choices, but they all converge to the single point anyway.

Most others elaborated a lot here, and I just don't feel like I should belabor the point.

Went in yesterday with high expectations, this was one of my most anticipated games for 2016, and now it's officially my first great disappointment of 2016.
Choices do matter. Not everything needs to be a branching tree. Like Soma and Oxenfree, the choices are about your character, their personality and relationships, and your own reactions, than having some extensive branching story where every choice takes you down some different path
 

Fuchsdh

Member
At the time, I assumed it was so that Henry and Delilah knew that whoever was watching them was onto them, in knowing that they had the keys to the cave. So that they could have set up a trap in there, maybe?

From the point of Ned, I think this is by far the most baffling plot point in the whole game. It makes no sense for him to just give them the key to the cave when he clearly doesn't want them to go down there.

While I guess you don't really get to spend much time in the headspace of Ned and see where his guilt and isolation might lead to paranoia and bad decision making.... every step that Henry and Delilah take in finding the kid is due to his own actions. If he did nothing in the game, then Henry would never have found his son's body. It requires a continued and persistent comedy of errors and stupidity for the plot to happen as it does.
 
While I guess you don't really get to spend much time in the headspace of Ned and see where his guilt and isolation might lead to paranoia and bad decision making.... every step that Henry and Delilah take in finding the kid is due to his own actions. If he did nothing in the game, then Henry would never have found his son's body. It requires a continued and persistent comedy of errors and stupidity for the plot to happen as it does.

which makes the final reveal so deflating. you dont know enough about the goodwins to care really.
 

Jb

Member
That was a really nice human-sized story, and the setting was a really beautiful ice representation of the paradox that is the need for isolation and introspection we often feel, while at the same time longing for meaningful human connections.
I look forward to playing it again without the inherent tension of not knowing where the story and characters are headed, and instead paying attention to all the cool small details that the game is full of.
 
That was a really nice human-sized story, and the setting was a nice representation of the paradox that is the need for isolation and introspection we often feel, while at the same time longing for meaningful human connections.
I look forward to playing it again without the inherent tension of not knowing where the story and characters are headed, and instead paying attention to all the cool small details that the game is full of.

So many of these. i loved naming something and then the characters constantly refer to it by that name and stuff. Knocks against the game aside for the majority of the game it felt like i was listening to real genuine conversations
 

tuxfool

Banned
But the one thing that repeats itself from Telltale games: Choices don't matter!
You go through the game, make choices, but they all converge to the single point anyway.

People need to stop expecting this from every game. Choices do matter in the context of what the game means to you when you make those choices. It isn't about what the effect is ultimately, but what you feel like when you're making certain choices.
 
which makes the final reveal so deflating. you dont know enough about the goodwins to care really.

On the other hand, you do care enough about Delilah to know it's going to crush her. If you listen closely to both of the characters in the dialogue after the cave, you can even hear them both start to choke up a bit. The whole Goodwin arc isn't important in itself, it is the effect it has on the relationship between Delilah and Henry.
 
Well, I'm pretty damn disappointed.
Firewatch was one of the reasons I wanted a PS4 so badly, and I almost bought one just to play it before I realized it was on PC. Lucky me.

The environments and style are definitely 10/10, but the story falls so damn flat it hurts. It makes sense, I guess. It's a story where two normal people have an old normal job where a really spooky series of events happen, leading up to... something that's not terrible exciting because why would it be? Real life doesn't work that way.

Honestly, I thought the kid and Ned had left and hadn't gotten lost or whatever so when the "twist" happens, it didn't hit me at all.

The suspense, the build-up, and the pure terror I had exploring the environments was real and felt so damn good, but there was never a payoff. The requency hacking, the facility, the destroyed tent, and every other reason I felt anything was nothing but theeeeeeming.
 

ultron87

Member
A choice I really liked was choosing when to tell Delilah the truth about Julia. I'm really impressed after reading that you can go through the whole game without telling her.
 

whyman

Member
I see a lot of people complaining about story/ending. I really liked it, it dosent have to be this HUGE mystery to be good. I want more games to be like this.
 
I see a lot of people complaining about story/ending. I really liked it, it dosent have to be this HUGE mystery to be good. I want more games to be like this.

I think that's the problem, the story was a HUGE mistery for a big chunk... it shouldn't have been.
 

CHC

Member
Finished it last night. I have to say, I don't THINK I am disappointed. Obviously I was expecting a more horror-ish angle but what we got instead was something that felt like a legitimate slice of life. This is just a summer in a man's life - an interesting one, but not a scripted and perfectly paced story. It feels like an actual life experience. You meet someone you like but don't really act on it, some weird stuff happens that you think is more dramatic than it actually is, and then it ends and you go off to do other things.

I'm happier when I think of like that, rather than sort of crossing my arms at the plot and asking "what can you do for me?"

I certainly have unanswered questions and will probably play the game again at some point, but as it stands... I don't mind having them unanswered. I don't feel the need to poke and prod around the internet trying to tie up every loose end. Again, it's like a real life mystery - there may or not be a concrete answer but I have other things to worry about. I'm content.
 

Crash331

Member
I was so disappointed that we could not open the fence lock with the raptor claw.

Also, I was so disappointed when I went to the cotton prairie only to find out I had not zoomed in on the sheet of paper with all the trees and plants. As if the game had to register that I had zoomed in before I could do anything in the cotton prairie.



I did that, too. Walked all the way there and was like "WHAT THE SHIT, DELILAH? WHERE ARE YOU?"

After walking in circles for 5 minutes, I brought up the map and the objective said "look at the plant poster"


I just said "Seriously?"
 

thenexus6

Member
I have been waiting like two years for this game, big fan of Idle Thumbs which makes it extra cool alot of these guys worked on it.

Beat it this morning took about four hours. I am glad it wasn't this jump scare, CIA, alien, supernatural conspiracy cover up thing. It was a simple human story. However I wish there was more to it.

But the whole thing with Ned, the massive fences and all the tech is weird to me. Did miss something back how did all that get there?

The VA was so good, really some of the best i've heard in ages.

I wish there was just more to explore and do. I enjoyed just wandering around with the map and checking stuff out.
 
I don't mind them developing the extra ideas. I feel that can work, as Henry properly enters escapism and grows from that. Removing his wife from the picture works thematically; he begins to focus on other things, looses himself in his escape, and through that alone and his interaction with Delilah learns to move on or at least find some footing. I like the idea of Delilah and Henry growing as people, or at least interacting, through discovery. The loneliness and weirdness of this isolated job that they've both run to in order to escape themselves, yet finding it ultimately unexpectedly personal and confronting. The story does need something to shepard these characters through their arcs, but doubling down so hard on the Ned mystery was the wrong direction I think. As said, I just find it really cartoonish and unconvincing in the end.

This is how I feel after sleeping on it. I would have preferred they skip the conspiracy stuff entirely, but if you're going to include it, at least have it go somewhere.

Even darker, I thought for a bit the research site were private detectives who were recording your conversations to use against you in divorce proceedings brought by Julia's parents. But that probably would have been too mean, to use those conversations against you in the end.
 
I see what people are saying about it being nice and different that it is just humans in the end but as others have stated, having one guy manipulating the whole thing for semi dubious reasons and then telling you it was him the whole time tint at the end just isn't satisfying, at all. They could still have done the whole it's-nothing-actually-creepy-or-bad by just saying that all of the things that happened were coincidence enhanced by Henry's guilt and inner conflict which fuels his paranoia, thus making Henry an unreliable narrator. I feel like that would've been less jarring.
 

Gilgamesh

Member
Great post. A few extras from my perspective.

-Ned knows of an alternate entrance to the research site. Among the paperwork in his hideaway there's a hand drawn map of the site that references a loose area of fencing. He uses that to get in and out without you knowing.

-One of the supply boxes towards the North contains broken glass and a book that I believe was previously in your Lookout Tower.

-Delilah's change in demeanor regarding romance happens after you tell her more about Brian (starting at his secret base). It's a reality check. Once you tell her he died, all romantic fantasy for her is gone. Regardless of whether she gets blamed in some way for his death officially.. she'll never return to the park again and she'll never be interested in Henry. Everything and everyone she associates with that place is tainted.

-Ned's actions after the death of his son are in line with a break. He didn't murder him. He loved his son but had trouble relating to him and this was strained further by his PTSD. He was an asshole but he was trying the only way he knew how and it was that effort that led to Brian dying. After that death, Ned's gone.

-The Backpack with the Key was most likely hid by Brian. Ned would've accessed the Cave by climbing but Brian would've used the Gate Key to get to his hideout as he didn't like climbing. Since the hideout was also where the Pitons were located, he probably hid the key to prevent his father from finding the hideout. The alarm was already there to capture images of Elk.


I really, really enjoyed this game. I wasn't at all disappointed by the ending and everything about it hit home with me. From the beginning where you as a player are forced to make decisions about Henry's past that equate to different flavors of your life going to shit... to learning bit by bit about this little nerdy kid with an incredible and innocent imagination. Getting little bits of the flawed relationship between Ned and Brian... Brian not understanding why his Dad is the way he is and Ned's problematic but genuine (in his own way) attempt to connect to his son. Then the gut punch of seeing those pictures during the credit roll. Fuuuuck man. Then there's also the relationship between Henry and Delilah. The awkward and guilt-ridden progression which is abruptly halted when the paranoia of their verbal dalliance being known to someone else hits which can ( and due to the game playing mindset of the player) and probably does worsen as you make dialogue choices that have the two characters reinforce each others worst ideas. Just really well done. I loved this experience.
Thanks to you and Shrike Alvaron for clearing up the story for everyone in this thread. Definitely how I interpreted it as well.

I loved this game. No regrets. Wouldn't have been disappointed even if it cost twice as much as it does.
 

Spyware

Member
When playing games, reading books and watching movies, we are used to getting all the info about important characters. Oh, someone died at the end? We're expected to care only because we've gotten to know them through the story. Real life isn't like that. Not for me anyway. I recently read about two young girls dying in a fire and it hit me really hard even tho I know exactly nothing about their lives. I don't even know the details of the fire. I just know the parents weren't home and the girls died. That hurts to read.

I didn't need to know and my Henry definitely didn't need to know everything about Brian to be affected by the fact that he died. It's enough to know that he was sad at having to climb against his will and that the death was preventable by D (if she had just reported him being there or just not lied when they asked her about a kid at the tower). And you even get lots and lots more info than that in the game.

Her not wanting to meet you is so great. Her character just doesn't want to and we're not used to that. Everyone should want to see me! I'm the important protagonist! Main character! Hero!
 

Crash331

Member
Completely missed that (along with the raccoons and the turtles, apparently) on my play through.

So what was the ultimate story with the rangers? I feel like I got most or all of their notes but the fact that they were never organized chronologically and I ended up with a lot more documents to shuffle made it hard to piece together.


Check your tower near the end after you collect some notes. They are taped pretty much chronologically to the window.
 

whyman

Member
I have been waiting like two years for this game, big fan of Idle Thumbs which makes it extra cool alot of these guys worked on it.

Beat it this morning took about four hours. I am glad it wasn't this jump scare, CIA, alien, supernatural conspiracy cover up thing. It was a simple human story. However I wish there was more to it.

But the whole thing with Ned, the massive fences and all the tech is weird to me. Did miss something back how did all that get there?

The VA was so good, really some of the best i've heard in ages.

I wish there was just more to explore and do. I enjoyed just wandering around with the map and checking stuff out.

About the fence yea, there was a note saying scientists would be back Aug 19 (i think) and that Ned had to remember to get stuff back there.
There might have been more stuff going on...
 
But the whole thing with Ned, the massive fences and all the tech is weird to me. Did miss something back how did all that get there?

All the equipment was there for actual, authorized research purposes; Ned arranged details in such a way to appear that Henry and Delilah were being monitored by an actual research team. He used fake reports and supplies he had stolen to make it look convincing.
 
I think that's the problem, the story was a HUGE mistery for a big chunk... it shouldn't have been.
But that's the thing...it wasn't a huge mystery. Just Henry and Delilah (and you) thought it was. They were panicking, paranoid, scared, and confused, connecting things that weren't connecting and thinking benign things were malicious. Which I think anyone isolated like that and trying to make sense of what's happening probably would.
 

Gutek

Member
But that's the thing...it wasn't a huge mystery. Just Henry and Delilah (and you) thought it was. They were panicking, paranoid, scared, and confused, connecting things that weren't connecting and thinking benign things were malicious. Which I think anyone isolated like that and trying to make sense of what's happening probably would.

The isolation angle is somewhat reaching. They are being pranked by a mastermind woodshobo. I mean, that guy orchestrated everything perfectly. Even the most stable of individuals would get paranoid.
 
But that's the thing...it wasn't a huge mystery. Just Henry and Delilah (and you) thought it was. They were panicking, paranoid, scared, and confused, connecting things that weren't connecting and thinking benign things were malicious. Which I think anyone isolated like that and trying to make sense of what's happening probably would.


I think there was GREAT reasons to be paranoid. The research facility, the hit in the head, the transcriptions, and some minor things that add up to that. It wasn't loneliness, there was actual facts. That's what it bothered me, the story tried really hard to make me and the characters feel paranoid.

In my opinion, all Ned story arc feels like forced, there are so many things he's done that doesn't convince me, it's too much for me. Someone suggested that the final tape shouldn't exist so you get no answers, that would have been great I think, or better at least.

In the end, I'd preferred a bigger focus on the relation of H and D and their background with just simple stuff to do in the woods with some little mistery, maybe just the girls gone missing or some stuff like that.
 
But that's the thing...it wasn't a huge mystery. Just Henry and Delilah (and you) thought it was. They were panicking, paranoid, scared, and confused, connecting things that weren't connecting and thinking benign things were malicious. Which I think anyone isolated like that and trying to make sense of what's happening probably would.

but it wasnt unjustified paranoia. henry was knocked out cold after finding someone keeping logs of what hes being saying.

isolated or not youd get paranoid.
 

Trigker

Member
Thanks so much guys for clarifying some aspects of the plot.. the guy who plays Henry is a famous actor, i like his voice acting so much.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
But that's the thing...it wasn't a huge mystery. Just Henry and Delilah (and you) thought it was. They were panicking, paranoid, scared, and confused, connecting things that weren't connecting and thinking benign things were malicious. Which I think anyone isolated like that and trying to make sense of what's happening probably would.

But that's the thing... it was a huge mystery. We the players aren't out in the woods; we're able to think about what's going on in the game. And they're not being paranoid. Transcripts of their conversations makes that abundantly clear. There was nothing benign in any of Ned's actions (destroying the girl's tents? Writing nasty comments about them in memos?) This wasn't a case of misinterpreting benign acts, because we learn it was orchestrated at the end.
 

tuxfool

Banned
but it wasnt unjustified paranoia. henry was knocked out cold after finding someone keeping logs of what hes being saying.

isolated or not youd get paranoid.

Of course, but there lies the plan. I get the feeling Ned only started following up on the conspiracy line after Henry found out about the clipboard. He saw how weirded out they were and just ran with it.
 
also, did anyone read neds notes in his little fort above the tape?

its the same notes from the research center, but written like a madmen. Like random breaks and cursing.

like:

"SUBJECT ONE: FFFCUK
...
...
...mmmmm"
 
Choices do matter. Not everything needs to be a branching tree. Like Soma and Oxenfree, the choices are about your character, their personality and relationships, and your own reactions, than having some extensive branching story where every choice takes you down some different path

But they don't. Your personality differences don't make any changes in the overall story or the relationships you form during the game. As far as I can tell, Harry's wife still has dementia, and Delilah still isn't with you in the end regardless of what kind of person you make Harry.
 
But that's the thing...it wasn't a huge mystery. Just Henry and Delilah (and you) thought it was. They were panicking, paranoid, scared, and confused, connecting things that weren't connecting and thinking benign things were malicious. Which I think anyone isolated like that and trying to make sense of what's happening probably would.
But they weren't benign things, they were malicious things intended to cause paranoia and confusion. Most of the things were connected, just poorly and in a contrived manner, by a crazy homeless guy.
 
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