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Florida/South Carolina Primary Prediction Thread

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S

Stoney Mason

Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
:lol those ads are amazing.
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I actually think they are all good well produced better than your average politicians commercials if you take away my feelings on his foreign policy ideas. But then I've always had a soft spot for Rudy.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Stoney: Balanced in that he's talking about domestic issues besides foreign, I suppose. But that tax plan is pretty radical.

Cooter: McCain and Obama are on opposite sides of the fence regarding taxes, foreign policy, and spending on social programs. IIRC, those issues are pretty high priorities for you. If one of them's your first choice, it's hard to see how the other would be your second.

APF: You keep saying this about Obama. I assume you're just parsing his unity rhetoric a certain way.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Stoney Mason said:
I actually think they are all good well produced better than your average politicians commercials if you take away my feelings on his foreign policy ideas. But then I've always had a soft spot for Rudy.
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yeah. they almost feel like movie ads.
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Mandark said:
Cooter: McCain and Obama are on opposite sides of the fence regarding taxes, foreign policy, and spending on social programs. IIRC, those issues are pretty high priorities for you. If one of them's your first choice, it's hard to see how the other would be your second.
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I think you are misunderstanding me. If I can have a McCain vs Romney general that would be ideal. Both share my economic views for the most part and that’s usually how I vote. My entire point is if McCain is going to have to face a dem and possibly lose I would prefer Obama 1000% more than Hillary.

Presidents don't have too much of an impact on our lives and I'm looking for someone to be as honest as a politician can be and be a good ambassador to the world. McCain and Obama can do that.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Hootie said:
I'm really hoping Obama can win SC...but I fear he will be pummeled come Super Tuesday.
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Obama will probably win SC. He'll also probably lose Super Tuesday, however he might be able to stay close enough to Hillary to keep the race going.

Cooter said:
I think you are misunderstanding me. If I can have a McCain vs Romney general that would be ideal. Both share my economic views for the most part and that’s usually how I vote. My entire point is if McCain is going to have to face a dem and possibly lose I would prefer Obama 1000% more than Hillary.

Presidents don't have too much of an impact on our lives and I'm looking for someone to be as honest as a politician can be and be a good ambassador to the world. McCain and Obama can do that.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying and partly agree with you, but the bolded is ludicrious
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
Obama will probably win SC. He'll also probably lose Super Tuesday, however he might be able to stay close enough to Hillary to keep the race going.



I understand what you are saying and partly agree with you, but the bolded is ludicrious
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In all honesty, being a President *IS* being a figurehead. With all the support staffs, and the lack of power within the executive branch itself. The only real power is veto power and all that means is that when people are split down the middle about a decision you're the decider.
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
grandjedi6 said:
I understand what you are saying and partly agree with you, but the bolded is ludicrious
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They don't though. Has your life changed much from when Clinton was in office?

Sure, things change over the course of decades but they would change regardless of who was in office.

The biggest thing is tax increases and cuts and they are very difficult to pass.

Yes, we have the Iraq war but no one knows if Gore would have followed the same course. It's all speculation at this point.
 
A

avaya

Member
Cooter said:
Yes, we have the Iraq war but no one knows if Gore would have followed the same course. It's all speculation at this point.
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There's speculation then there is qualified speculation. Gore didn't have a cabinet full of people on record with signing up to the idea of setting up a New American Century which involved the control of energy resources through any means necessary. To say the Democrats would have gone into Iraq is laughable.
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
avaya said:
There's speculation then there is qualified speculation. Gore didn't have a cabinet full of people on record with signing up to the idea of setting up a New American Century which involved the control of energy resources through any means necessary. To say the Democrats would have gone into Iraq is laughable.
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No it's not. The country was in a different mindset back then. Everyone was scared and everyone believed that Saddam had WMD's. I conceed that it probably wouldn't have happened but it's far from laughable. Go see who voted for it. There might have been 1 or 2 dems on the yes side.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Tamanon said:
In all honesty, being a President *IS* being a figurehead. With all the support staffs, and the lack of power within the executive branch itself. The only real power is veto power and all that means is that when people are split down the middle about a decision you're the decider.
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:lol

.... :lol

Are you serious? The executive branch has become more powerful than the other two branches since the 1900s.

Cooter said:
They don't though. Has your life changed much from when Clinton was in office?

Sure, things change over the course of decades but they would change regardless of who was in office.

The biggest thing is tax increases and cuts and they are very difficult to pass.

Yes, we have the Iraq war but no one knows if Gore would have followed the same course. It's all speculation at this point.
Click to expand...

The President effects your life greatly. The President is the one who decides on policies, they are the ones who execute almost all actions on behalf the country, the President is the countries leader. While my daily actions may have not changed because of the President, it still has effected my life greatly in the long term.
 
D

DEO3

Member
Hootie said:
I'm really hoping Obama can win SC...but I fear he will be pummeled come Super Tuesday.
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I'm pretty confident he'll win there, but the media won't portray it as anything other than a fluke. Hillary has pulled out of SC and anytime the media mentions SC, it's always "South Carolina, which is 50% black...". So when he wins it'll just be framed as an uncontested contest (like Romney winning Wyoming/Nevada) which was only possible due to him being black.

Look no further than Monday night's debate, where 75% of the questions were race related (granted it was and hosted by the CBC and MLK day), and the past week of coverage where the media played up the non-existent 'race war' between Obama and Clinton. Where as once Obama was portrayed as a figure who transcended race and the pettiness of politics, he's now been relegated to 'the black candidate' who's 'no better than Clinton' because of all the 'spats' they've been having - which were actually just him trying to set the record straight, time and time again, as the Clinton campaign kept tossing ridiculous shit out there.

EDIT: I hate to say it, but right now it looks like his best bet is to do well enough on Feb. 5 in states that give their delegates out proportionally so as to keep the delegate count between him and Clinton close, and then just press on and hope that Edwards sides with once it's time for the convention.
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
grandjedi6 said:
The President effects your life greatly. The President is the one who decides on policies, they are the ones who execute almost all actions on behalf the country, the President is the countries leader. While my daily actions may have not changed because of the President, it still has effected my life greatly in the long term.
Click to expand...

If you say so. Good day.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
DEO3 said:
I'm pretty confident he'll win there, but the media won't portray it as anything other than a fluke. Hillary has pulled out of SC and anytime the media mentions SC, it's always "South Carolina, which is 50% black...". So when he wins it'll just be framed as an uncontested contest (like Romney winning Wyoming/Nevada) which was only possible due to him being black.

Look no further than Monday night's debate, where 75% of the questions were race related (granted it was and hosted by the CBC and MLK day), and the past week of coverage where the media played up the non-existent 'race war' between Obama and Clinton. Where as once Obama was portrayed as a figure who transcended race and the pettiness of politics, he's now been relegated to 'the black candidate' who's 'no better than Clinton' because of all the 'spats' they've been having - which were actually just him trying to set the record straight time and time again as the Clinton campaign kept throwing shit out there.
Click to expand...

No, SC will be hyped up. It is a traditionally important momentum primary, the Media will run with it. Wyoming and Nevada were ignored because they are new forerunner states, they are caucuses, and they were overshadowed by more "important" contests
 
A

avaya

Member
Cooter said:
No it's not. The country was in a different mindset back then. Everyone was scared and everyone believed that Saddam had WMD's. I conceed that it probably wouldn't have happened but it's far from laughable. Go see who voted for it. There might have been 1 or 2 dems on the yes side.
Click to expand...

I too believed he had WMD. I too believed he was an immediate threat. But why was that?

It's because this administration overstated the importance of it, tried to associate Al Qaeda with Iraq and put enough FUD out there to convince everyone. The Democrats being pussies didn't want to go contrarian from what was then popular political opinion fostered by a campaign of false reporting and innuendo.

That is what happened.

It's speculation sure, but Gore's backers definitely didn't have the same history of ambitions for Iraq. I find it highly unlikely he wouldn't have gone down that path, especially given the lack of NATO support.

Anyway, this is so off-topic.

Just wanted to say thanks to Cheebs with these threads, it's a good reminder for me on when these things are happening.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Cooter said:
I think you are misunderstanding me. If I can have a McCain vs Romney general that would be ideal. Both share my economic views for the most part and that’s usually how I vote. My entire point is if McCain is going to have to face a dem and possibly lose I would prefer Obama 1000% more than Hillary.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. I was misunderstanding and that's eminently reasonable of you.



Stoney: Jon Voight? How did Huckabee not get him? With Chuck Norris, Ric Flair, and Ted Nugent in his corner I figured he was cornering the crazy middle aged white dudes.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Barack Obama's presidential campaign team is crying foul today over a new radio ad that rival Hillary Clinton has begun to air in South Carolina.

According to a transcript and audio of the ad being circulated by the Obama camp, the radio spot presents a clip of Obama saying, "The Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years."

A voiceover then says, "Really? Aren't those the ideas that got us into the economic mess we're in today? Ideas like special tax breaks for Wall Street. Running up a $9 trillion debt. Refusing to raise the minimum wage or deal with the housing crisis. Are those the ideas Barack Obama's talking about?"

The line of attack is one that Clinton used during the contentious Democratic debate in South Carolina, and one she and her husband have both repeated on the stump -- though the radio ad drops the Clintons' earlier assertion that Obama said that the Republicans had "all the good ideas" during the 90s.

The Washington Post Fact Checker columnist, Michael Dobbs, examined the Clintons' earlier critique of the Obama remark, and concluded that the Clinton attacks distorted Obama's comment. Dobbs noted that Obama never said the Republican ideas were good ones, and during the interview in which he made the comment, he went on to criticize the Republican obsession with tax cuts.

Here, courtesy of FactCheck.Org, is the full text of what Obama told the editorial board of the Reno Gazette-Journal:

Obama (Jan. 14, 2008): The Republican approach has played itself out. I think it's fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years, in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom. Now, you've heard it all before. You look at the economic policies when they're being debated among the presidential candidates, it's all tax cuts. Well, we know, we've done that; we've tried it. That's not really going to solve our energy problems, for example.
Click to expand...

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/23/obama_campaign_decries_clinton.html

Hillary is starting to piss even me off with this spinning of "Obama's Republican comments" :/
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
Wow, thread derail total. Is it really that hard to stay on topic? I often wish the OT were moderated like the gaming side.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Tom_Cody said:
Wow, thread derail total. Is it really that hard to stay on topic? I often wish the OT were moderated like the gaming side.
Click to expand...

How DARE people discuss South Carolina politics in a thread about SC Primary predictions!?
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Tom_Cody said:
I was referring to the discussion of the executive branch
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It dies out, besides it's the only discussion that happens until another piece of news. Don't get your panties in a wad, this is how political threads always operate here.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
A

APF

Member
Like Obama lying about economic and energy policy proposals over the last 15 years? That comment of his is incomprehensible, and the Hillary ad's interpretation certainly does not call into question her "moral agency."
 
T

thekad

Banned
APF said:
Like Obama lying about economic and energy policy proposals over the last 15 years? That comment of his is incomprehensible, and the Hillary ad's interpretation certainly does not call into question her "moral agency."
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You're an idiot. Sorry, but no one could misinterpret Obama's comments unless they were trying. Not even Stoney has it this bad, god damn.
 
H

harSon

Banned
thekad said:
You're an idiot. Sorry, but no one could misinterpret Obama's comments unless they were trying. Not even Stoney has it this bad, god damn.
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Just ignore him or you'll find yourself debating in circles for the next few hours.
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
I'm just annoyed that FL has closed primaries. I'm a registered Rep. but have only voted Dem. I've never voted in a primary before so BAH FUCKING HUMBUG

Mother fuckers are gonna force me to vote for either McCain or Ron Paul :(
 
A

APF

Member
thekad said:
You're an idiot. Sorry, but no one could misinterpret Obama's comments unless they were trying. Not even Stoney has it this bad, god damn.
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What's the "correct" interpretation then? That people are talking about more than just tax cuts? Because that's the accurate analysis, and not what Obama's words are saying. I'm sure somewhere in your gut he means "puppies are cute" or something.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Gattsu25 said:
I'm just annoyed that FL has closed primaries. I'm a registered Rep. but have only voted Dem. I've never voted in a primary before so BAH FUCKING HUMBUG

Mother fuckers are gonna force me to vote for either McCain or Ron Paul :(
Click to expand...

If it makes you feel any better, Florida democrats don't even have any delegates as of now
 
A

APF

Member
I'm sorry, but you have to have your head pretty far up Obama's ass to believe that's an accurate statement or meaningful analysis.
 
T

thekad

Banned
APF said:
What's the "correct" interpretation then? That people are talking about more than just tax cuts? Because that's the accurate analysis, and not what Obama's words are saying. I'm sure somewhere in your gut he means "puppies are cute" or something.
Click to expand...

You said that Hillary's interpretation was accurate. Everyone, including FactCheck disagrees with you.

The Washington Post Fact Checker columnist, Michael Dobbs, examined the Clintons' earlier critique of the Obama remark, and concluded that the Clinton attacks distorted Obama's comment. Dobbs noted that Obama never said the Republican ideas were good ones, and during the interview in which he made the comment, he went on to criticize the Republican obsession with tax cuts.


Obama (Jan. 14, 2008): The Republican approach has played itself out. I think it's fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years, in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom. Now, you've heard it all before. You look at the economic policies when they're being debated among the presidential candidates, it's all tax cuts. Well, we know, we've done that; we've tried it. That's not really going to solve our energy problems, for example.
Click to expand...
 
A

APF

Member
thekad said:
You said that Hillary's interpretation was accurate. Everyone, including FactCheck disagrees with you.
Click to expand...
The post of mine you were quoting was referring to the full quote dumbass. And I said her ad's interpretation didn't call into question her "moral agency" moron. Don't misquote me when you're alleging someone is misquoting your hero.
 
T

thekad

Banned
APF said:
The post of mine you were quoting was referring to the full quote dumbass.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you don't read your own posts. I'll bold it for you.

APF said:
Like Obama lying about economic and energy policy proposals over the last 15 years? That comment of his is incomprehensible, and the Hillary ad's interpretation certainly does not call into question her "moral agency."
Click to expand...

edit: You edited. But again, since you continue to fail at reading comprehension, Obama said in the Republican presidential debates all that the nominees are talking about is tax cuts. How does that have anything to do with economic and energy proposals over the last 15 years? You are purposely misinterpreting his comments. I wonder why.
 
H

harSon

Banned
APF said:
The post of mine you were quoting was referring to the full quote dumbass. And I said her ad's interpretation didn't call into question her "moral agency" moron. Don't misquote me when you're alleging someone is misquoting your hero.
Click to expand...

Your ridiculing of Obama supporters is quite amusing considering that you arguably spend more time lampooning the man than those you ridicule spend supporting him :lol
 
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