Support NeoGAF

[Shig]

Come to think of it, this thread in and of itself I think lends evidence to the thought that the Wii already "won".

By the level of pissed off people. Same thing happened last gen when Nintendo fans realized that the PS2 had won the generation. There were lots of pissed off people. Same thing when XBox fans realized the PS2 won.

Or when N64 fans or Saturn fans realized that the PSX won.

It appears that we're moving past the denial stage, and into anger. Not a fun stage, I must say.

Uh, except nobody was claiming those systems 'won' until they were actually, y'know, winning. It's more than a little premature to declare a runaway victory for a competitior that's not even in first place yet.

 

[Tobor]

My god, that was like getting rickrolled. I saw the URL appear in the title bar and then it sloooowly loaded and it still hasn't loaded. I just have the Quicktime Q in the window!

Good job Kev, you crashed the loser noise. :lol

 

[Razoric]

I don't recall saying that the Wii lineup is perfect as is... I said that getting more people involved in gaming, people that aren't necessarily enamored with the traditional genres, can be a good thing if it leads to more variety and experimentation in the long run. The hobby has become far too insular.

The hobby is fine. Nintendo has brainwashed their fans into thinking sales = everything. Last gen where you miserable with gaming? Was it really that bad? Do you really want your mom and dad to play games? What is this obsession with people wanting video games to be mega popular? You know what mega popular is? Spiderman 3 and Pirates 3. Lowest common denominator vanilla bullshit.

I would gladly take another PS2-era generation over the mini-game Wii future.

 

[dammitmattt]

Sorry, I was just trying to contemplate the amount of stupid in this post.

Think of regular, traditional gamers who aren't into the whole mini-game thing. The system came with Wii Sports, and you bought Zelda, of course. Then you bought the next big Nintendo game, Super Paper Mario. Maybe you even picked up Wii Play so you could have a second controller. Now you are waiting on Metroid.

Unless you're into PS2 ports, there's not a whole lot of other compelling content out there.

 

[Rancid Mildew]

Come to think of it, this thread in and of itself I think lends evidence to the thought that the Wii already "won".

By the level of pissed off people. Same thing happened last gen when Nintendo fans realized that the PS2 had won the generation. There were lots of pissed off people. Same thing when XBox fans realized the PS2 won.

Or when N64 fans or Saturn fans realized that the PSX won.

It appears that we're moving past the denial stage, and into anger. Not a fun stage, I must say.

QFT

I'm very unhappy with some of Nintendo's decisions but the disgusting anger in the last few hours in this thread is horrendous. I guess a big name magazine declaring a winner in the console war is just a bit too much for all these fanboys. Ultimately, the people here that voice their dissent and see no redeeming value in the Wii are quickly becoming the miniscule minority. No matter how vocal you defense force members are, you will never change the fact that the consumer is the kingmaker in any retail situation. Using your angry insults to belittle Nintendo and its fans belittles you all even further.

 

[Tobor]

Uh, except nobody was claiming those systems 'won' until they were actually, y'know, winning. It's more than a little premature to declare a runaway victory for a competitior that's not even in first place yet.

I don't know, Fortune feels comfortable with it.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

I have 18 360 games and that's after a few trade-ins.

You only have 4 360 games? Wow, I'm not even a huge xbox live gamer and I think the 360 has waaaay more than 4 worthy games.

I have only 3 retail games for my 360 (Owned since Febuary 2007 though I would've got GH2 if the DLC wasn't so ridiculously overpriced!) and 3 XBLA games while I have 6 Wii retail games and God only knows how many VC games, probably at least 35! I just don't see any games that I want to buy for the 360 right now, am I abnormal? Sure the 360 is looking to have a fantastic 2007 starting from August with Blue Dragon but I just don't see why people rave on about the 360's amazing lineup, and the Wii's 2nd half of 2007 is looking to be as good as the 360's IMO.

3rd game?

I own 7 Wii games. And 4 360 games. I haven't touched my 360 after getting bored of Gears of War. I only like console FPS's for the single player. I can't stand playing multiplayer on them. That's what my PC is for.

Same here, I got my 360 for free and I barely touched it until GOW came out (I got Burnout and Tomb Raider Legends and that's it until November, Oblivion wasn't for me) Now all I do with my 360 is play the occasional game of GOW and Burnout online or the occasional game of Luminies Live or Geometry Wars or maybe a new demo.

Mind you though this August is gonna rock, Blue Dragon and Metroid Prime 3 in the same month

 

[Jokeropia]

Maybe it is. On the other hand, Wii is coming after the huge success of the DS, 20 million Gamecube owners, and a low price tag. We all know how rabid Nintendo fans can be. Wii is pretty much a perfect storm for mass adoption among the existing fanbase.

This is such a ridiculous argument. If there are 8+ million hardcore Nintendo fans out there, why did Gamecube not even sell 2 million before demand dropped like a rock?

i don't think any of those will break 2 million outside of Japan. we'll see though

Uh, Wii Play has already broken 2 million in the West.

Oh, that's such a lame argument.

The line of argument as I read it was that theBishop was arguing LAIR was the type of game that would allow us to truly see what "next-gen" could do for games in terms of gameplay and you said that this would not be possible because no one would play it. That's so meen ^_^

Bishop was using Lair as an example of a game that will open the public's eyes to how awesome the PS3 is.

And that is all that matters to you people. It doesn't matter that the machine you support is a piece of junk. As long as it sells. As long as it sells. The Nintendo fan mantra.

As long as it sells.

But really, who could blame you after being beaten down for so long.

Wow, bitter tears rarely come in purer form than this. :lol And actually, that you think the machine is a piece of junk only makes this more enjoyable.

 

[Tobor]

Think of regular, traditional gamers who aren't into the whole mini-game thing. The system came with Wii Sports, and you bought Zelda, of course. Then you bought the next big Nintendo game, Super Paper Mario. Maybe you even picked up Wii Play so you could have a second controller. Now you are waiting on Metroid.

Unless you're into PS2 ports, there's not a whole lot of other compelling content out there.

The hardcore love the VC. It's good in a drought. Same for XBLA for that matter.

 

[mcgarrett]

The hobby is fine. Nintendo has brainwashed their fans into thinking sales = everything. Last gen where you miserable with gaming? Was it really that bad? Do you really want your mom and dad to play games? What is this obsession with people wanting video games to be mega popular? You know what mega popular is? Spiderman 3 and Pirates 3. Lowest common denominator vanilla bullshit.

I would gladly take another PS2-era generation.

If you're happy playing FPS after FPS that's great... personally I'm starting to get a little bored.

 

[ComputerNerd]

it doesn't play like an fps at all. that's actually part of its appeal.

it's a 3rd-person cover shooter.

i don't think you've played gears of war at all actually

Cover smover. It's still an FPS-like game. I think all the covering actually made it worse. The game did start out good. But it got repetitive. You can't do crap unless you're hiding behind something, and your teammates are taking some of the shots away from you.

If I recall, I stopped playing after I got to the second giant tentacle enemy you have to use that special weapon for. I had to travel backwards to get the weapon from when I killed tentacle enemy #1. After I killed #1, I switched the weapon out for a normal one, thinking those enemies were done for in the area.

 

[Haunted]

HAUHAUHAUHAUAH

>_> <_<

You haven't seen anything.

 

[taconinja]

There are ZERO third-party games that are. Time for Gamerankings-Age. And it says that the PS3 has almost double the number of 80% scorers than Wii, while the 360 has 9 times as many. So again, first get some good AAA games, then make these ridiculous threads.


NPD! MEDIA CREATE! GO GO NINTENDO!

Jesus, dude. What the hell is wrong with you and do they have meds for it?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Wow, this thread got real stupid...

 

[ComputerNerd]

Uh, except nobody was claiming those systems 'won' until they were actually, y'know, winning. It's more than a little premature to declare a runaway victory for a competitior that's not even in first place yet.

Worldwide, the Wii is outselling it's competition by at least 600K units per month. It's only a matter of time.

 

[Razoric]

If you're happy playing FPS after FPS that's great... personally I'm starting to get a little bored.

The last few games I played:
Crackdown
Gears of War
Dead Rising
Oblivion
Sam & Max
Forza 2
Shadowrun

Why do you only buy FPS games if you are bored of them?

 

[JB1981]

Cover smover. It's still an FPS-like game. I think all the covering actually made it worse. The game did start out good. But it got repetitive.

If I recall, I stopped playing after I got to the second giant tentacle enemy you have to use that special weapon for. I had to travel backwards to get the weapon from when I killed tentacle enemy #1. After I killed #1, I switched the weapon out for a normal one, thinking those enemies were done for in the area.

You've never played the game.

 

[Joust Williams]

1. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion X360 2K Games 102 9.2 94.1%
2. Gears of War X360 Microsoft Game Studios 105 8.7 93.8%
3. Guitar Hero II X360 RedOctane 49 8.1 92.6%
4. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter X360 Ubisoft 88 8.7 90.7%
5. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night X360 Konami 20 8.2 90.1%
6. Call of Duty 2 X360 Activision 87 8.8 90.0%
7. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas X360 Ubisoft 71 8.4 88.9%
8. Burnout Revenge X360 Electronic Arts 71 8.4 88.8%
9. The Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isles X360 Bethesda Softworks 33 8.2 88.5%
10. Project Gotham Racing 3 X360 Microsoft Game Studios 93 8.6 88.4%
11. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved X360 Bizarre Creations 26 8.1 87.7%
12. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 X360 Ubisoft 51 8.6 87.3%
13. Dead or Alive 4 X360 Tecmo 83 8.0 86.1%
14. Fight Night Round 3 X360 EA Sports 76 8.3 85.3%
15. Dead Rising X360 Capcom 93 8.3 85.1%
16. Viva Pinata X360 Microsoft Game Studios 61 7.8 85.0%
17. NBA 2K7 X360 2K Sports 47 8.0 85.0%
18. Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent X360 Ubisoft 59 8.4 84.8%
19. F.E.A.R. X360 Vivendi Games 46 7.8 84.0%
20. Crackdown X360 Microsoft Game Studios 76 8.3 83.5%
21. NBA Street Homecourt X360 EA Sports Big 35 7.6 83.4%
22. Need for Speed Most Wanted X360 Electronic Arts 71 8.0 83.3%
23. Call of Duty 3 X360 Activision 83 8.4 83.1%
24. Marvel: Ultimate Alliance X360 Activision 75 8.0 82.9%
25. Rockstar Games presents Table Tennis X360 Rockstar Games 83 7.7 82.6%
26. Condemned: Criminal Origins X360 Sega 81 8.2 82.4%
27. Hitman: Blood Money X360 Eidos Interactive 57 8.0 82.4%
28. Uno X360 Microsoft Game Studios 23 7.1 82.4%
29. College Hoops 2K7 X360 2K Sports 22 7.2 82.4%
30. Saints Row X360 THQ 82 8.2 82.1%
31. Tony Hawk's Project 8 X360 Activision 75 6.8 82.0%
32. Test Drive Unlimited X360 Atari 77 8.1 82.0%
33. Command & Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars X360 EA Games 30 6.0 81.9%
34. Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy X360 LucasArts 51 8.1 81.8%
35. Tomb Raider: Legend X360 Eidos Interactive 61 8.0 81.7%
36. Cloning Clyde X360 NinjaBee 37 6.9 81.5%
37. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 X360 EA Sports 45 7.5 81.4%
38. Virtua Tennis 3 X360 Sega 34 6.3 81.1%
39. Marble Blast Ultra X360 GarageGames 26 7.7 80.9%
40. Perfect Dark Zero X360 Microsoft Game Studios 96 7.8 80.9%
41. Madden NFL 07 X360 EA Sports 56 7.7 80.7%
42. Kameo: Elements of Power X360 Microsoft Game Studios 93 8.0 80.6%
43. NCAA Football 07 X360 EA Sports 42 7.6 80.5%
44. WWE SmackDown! vs. RAW 2007 X360 THQ 47 7.2 80.4%
45. Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie X360 Ubisoft 73 7.5 80.4%
46. The Lord of the Rings, The Battle for Middle-earth II X360 EA Games 57 6.3 80.1%


I don't see many FPSes in there.

 

[hyp]

I have only 3 retail games for my 360 (Owned since Febuary 2007 though I would've got GH2 if the DLC wasn't so ridiculously overpriced!) and 3 XBLA games while I have 6 Wii retail games and God only knows how many VC games, probably at least 35! I just don't see any games that I want to buy for the 360 right now, am I abnormal? Sure the 360 is looking to have a fantastic 2007 starting from August with Blue Dragon but I just don't see why people rave on about the 360's amazing lineup, and the Wii's 2nd half of 2007 is looking to be as good as the 360's IMO.

you guys make it so obvious sometimes.

 

[rayofash]

Think of regular, traditional gamers who aren't into the whole mini-game thing. The system came with Wii Sports, and you bought Zelda, of course. Then you bought the next big Nintendo game, Super Paper Mario. Maybe you even picked up Wii Play so you could have a second controller. Now you are waiting on Metroid.

Unless you're into PS2 ports, there's not a whole lot of other compelling content out there.

Or, you know, VIRTUAL CONSOLE.

 

[Y2Kev]

The hobby is fine. Nintendo has brainwashed their fans into thinking sales = everything. Last gen where you miserable with gaming? Was it really that bad? Do you really want your mom and dad to play games? What is this obsession with people wanting video games to be mega popular? You know what mega popular is? Spiderman 3 and Pirates 3. Lowest common denominator vanilla bullshit.

I would gladly take another PS2-era generation.

Well, just to swing the pendulum back to the other side, there's nothing wrong with expanding the hobby. We can have both casual games and hardcore games and they don't have to impinge upon each other.

However, it is an interesting case (some might say "unfortunate") that the hardcore games have to "accommodate" the Wii (though the Wiimote certainly has its advantages).

I do understand why people get confused when hardcore gamers on a message board create threads speculating about the sales of Wii Health, though. That's kind of bizarre.

 

[Tobor]

LIST WARS!!!!! DURRRR!!11!!

Seriously, man. Medication. Find some.

 

[underfooter]

If wii was VC alone I'd be happy with it. To me, everything else is extra.

 

[Link]

I wish we could put a hiatus on these stupid threads until the AAA games move en masse to the Wii. I look at the announced games and the AAA traditional games are all PS3 or 360. There is not one single third party sure-fire awesome game for the Wii. Why does anyone care if Wii Health gets more people to buy a Wii? It doesn't expand the traditional audience; it just brings in a new one with different tastes. Fantastic.

Or you could, you know, stop posting in them. Lord knows everybody would win that way.

 

[Joust Williams]

Seriously, man. Argument. Get one.

 

[JB1981]

If wii was VC alone I'd be happy with it. To me, everything else is extra.

my god

 

[theBishop]

Bishop was using Lair as an example of a game that will open the public's eyes to how awesome the PS3 is.

Actually, I was using Lair (and Mass Effect) as an example of a game that indisputably could not exist on the previous generation of hardware.

It was a response to this post:

Graphics don't matter anymore. N64 and PS1 graphics sucked. GCN/PS2/XBOX are good enough for most people.

My point was that increased hardware power gets you more than simply shinier graphics, and Lair/MassEffect would be proof of that.

 

[Tobor]

Seriously, man. Argument. Get one.

As soon as you have something rational to add to the discussion, I will be more than happy to listen to it.

But since you already scolded us for making the thread and resorted to petty nonsense, that doesn't seem likely.

 

[mcgarrett]

The last few games I played:
Crackdown
Gears of War
Dead Rising
Oblivion
Sam & Max
Forza 2
Shadowrun

Only two of which don't revolve primarily around a hero slaying monsters/other humans with a gun or sword. Not that I have anything against violence by any means, but it's just the same thing over and over and over and over with slight twists. Where are the fresh ideas?

 

[schuelma]

Well this thread turned into complete crap rather quickly..it was bordering on a decent discussion for a while.

 

[birdchili]

You know what mega popular is? Spiderman 3 and Pirates 3. Lowest common denominator vanilla bullshit.

I would gladly take another PS2-era generation.

sony would have surely done alright on the gaming front by trying to milk the ps2 for longer and holding the ps3 in reserve until the ps2 was actually in decline and they could show ps3 software that was more magical than what they've been able to release so far.

and surely sci fi/military fps games are the Spiderman 3s of gaming. not wii sports.

just because games targeted at mom are coming out on a system doesn't mean that that system sucks for your needs. the amount of shite on the ps2 was staggering, but i've got a pretty tall pile of gold that runs on that box.

 

[Y2Kev]

The VC is nice, but it's not enough to sustain me...in most cases. Most of the games I will download and mess around with to bring back old memories. Some of the ones I really love I'll beat.

I much prefer new content. I realize others are different.

 

[Jokeropia]

Actually, I was using Lair (and Mass Effect) as an example of a game that indisputably could not exist on the previous generation of hardware.

It was a response to this post:


My point was that increased hardware power gets you more than simply shinier graphics, and Lair/MassEffect would be proof of that.

But that doesn't address Koam's argument that the majority of the market doesn't really care about those things.

 

[theBishop]

Or, you know, VIRTUAL CONSOLE.

You mean games I already played over the last 20 years and have had multiple opportunities to play via used sales, compilations, and emulation?

This is like saying PS3 has the best library of all time because it plays PSone and PS2 games.

 

[taconinja]

my god

Is it full of stars?

 

[dammitmattt]

Or, you know, VIRTUAL CONSOLE.

After spending about $50 on the Virtual Console, I realized that I'm not so into ROM dumps with nothing added and no leaderboards or online play.

Also, I don't like to have my fond memories tarnished. Very few games actually stand the test of time, though if there were achievements, leaderboards, and some kind of online functionality, it would be much, much more compelling to me.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

This thread is filled with so much bitterness. More lumping of Nintendo fans into the "NTard" category, a collective mind that all think the same and can't be reasoned with 'cos we I are dumb!

HA HA...what this comes down to is bitterness. Some of you invested in your expensive TV's & expensive hardware and you're upset 'cos it's being outshined by the lil' Wii. It's all about fear...you fear the change that Wii brings, you fear that Nintendo will 'kill' gaming as you know/like it, you fear that your hobby will be invaded by soccermom's & retirement home ache's...you fear that this 'POS' Wii will hurt your investment in PS3 and/or X360. What's sad is, Wii isn't going to kill those ways of gaming, so I don't see why it's so hated.

Over a decade ago, I HATED the 'PlayStation Generation' as it represented the growth of the casual market and the Hollywoodization/basterdization of the industry I loved...a hobby for ME was now openning up thanks to a non-games company. Fast forward to now...the 'PlayStation Generation' is resisting the changes Wii is bringing to this industry tooth & nail...basically for the same biased reason: they don't like Nintendo.

It's even gotten to the point where 2 unrealistic theories take place, theories that are so wrong they even seem to be pre-GCN launch level Nintendo fanboyish. 1- Wii will suddenly DIE once the almighty "HD-era" kicks in...it's almost sad how these enthusiests gobble up that company line. 2- Sony can make their own PS+Waggle, yeah, that'll fix everything won't it...this theory is just as crazy as any Nintendo armchair CEO back in 2002.

This crackpot theory of a PS2+Waggle coming out & uprooting Wii's success this year is JUST AS crazy as a sudden WiiHD next year. I ask you, did the NDS need a sudden graphical upgrade 'cos of woes about how much more powerful/capable the PSP is? Neither will Wii...and by the time it would WiiHD probably will come to pass, so then what...you have your whiney issue addressed, you'll still find something to cry about.

 

[Rancid Mildew]

Well this thread turned into complete crap rather quickly..it was bordering on a decent discussion for a while.

There are ZERO third-party games that are. Time for Gamerankings-Age. And it says that the PS3 has almost double the number of 80% scorers than Wii, while the 360 has 9 times as many. So again, first get some good AAA games, then make these ridiculous threads.


NPD! MEDIA CREATE! GO GO NINTENDO!

With contributions like this, should we expect anything else? The defense force members want to launch competing threads now.

 

[underfooter]

my god

....? I love classic games, and having a nice, clean place to play all my favorites on a wireless controller is beautiful. Not to mention I can bust out my GCN controllers for multiplayer, and the wii plays GCN games.



Is that a problem with you?

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

More Mumbo Jumbo about how the Wii sells alot of units and is teh awesome from people who's gaming experience doesn't go past "oh ya I like Mario"

It is like my dad decided to talk about videogames all of a sudden. He knows little beyond what other people tell him.

 

[ComputerNerd]

You've never played the game.

I own the game. It's been about 5 months since I played it. What did I say that was wrong (outside of the FPS statement. I call all 3rd-person over-the-shoulder shooters FPS's. It's a habit. They play the same).

I can't locate the enemy on Google images, but it's the enemy you had to use some sort of satellite guided laser weapon on or something. It's been a while, and I'm trying to remember.

 

[rayofash]

Well this thread turned into complete crap rather quickly..it was bordering on a decent discussion for a while.

GAF dude, GAF.

 

[theBishop]

But that doesn't address Koam's argument that the majority of the market doesn't really care about those things.

My understanding of Koam's argument was that very few people care about graphics.

My point is that the next-generation of hardware is expanding gameplay as well as graphics.

But really, any attempt to separate graphics and gameplay is moronic. Very rarely do graphics improve without an improvement in overall hardware power. And increased hardware power allows designers to create new gameplay.

 

[dammitmattt]

Only two of which don't revolve primarily around a hero slaying monsters/other humans with a gun or sword. Not that I have anything against violence by any means, but it's just the same thing over and over and over and over with slight twists. Where are the fresh ideas?

You just described pretty much every action/adventure/RPG game in existence.

 

[Grecco]

Can we Ban List Wars posts?

God it kills threads. We all loose

 

[nicks are so impersonal]

Sorry to pick on you, but statements like the one you made are just downright stupid.

Remember, you are playing video games. Video games. All these "Ho ho ho i'm a real gamer!" and "Wii is bad for the industry" makes it sound like it's coming from a 5 year old with a 'No Girls Allowed' sign on his tree house.

Ok, sorry. You can go back to fondling your Halo 3 pre-order.

That's disgusting.

The end has begun.

 

[Tobor]

My understanding of Koam's argument was that very few people care about graphics.

My point is that the next-generation of hardware is expanding gameplay as well as graphics.

But really, any attempt to separate graphics and gameplay is moronic. Very rarely do graphics improve without an improvement in overall hardware power. And increased hardware power allows designers to create new gameplay.

The counter argument would be that the controller had stagnated. The graphics and processing power were increasing, but the input method was the bottleneck.

 

[Jokeropia]

My point is that the next-generation of hardware is expanding gameplay as well as graphics.

Which doesn't affect his argument since the majority of the market evidently doesn't really care about horsepower-driven gameplay expansions at this point either.

 

[Y2Kev]

Can we Ban List Wars posts?

God it kills threads. We all loose

ham and cheese pita

 

[ShockingAlberto]

This thread has been an awesome read.