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[v1cious]

I like how big-budget titles are simply not feasible now that the Wii is out. They don't make any money, guys! They never did. That's why all those big PS2 titles have so many ****ing sequels!

wait... what? Lost Planet sold 1 million, despite being underwhelming, Gears of war is on it's way to 4 million, and Halo 3 probably be in that area as well after a few months... hell even Resistance sold a million

... or are you being sarcastic

 

[JB1981]

But which game was the pack-in? Something that everyone can related to, Wii Sports. There are a significant amount of people out there who like to play games but have no interest in bald space marines.

Yet there's a significant number of people that are interested in Bald Space Marines, as you put it. Gears of War's 4 million sold says Hi.

 

[dammitmattt]

Wanna guess which sells more Lair, Mass Effect or Wii Sports casuals priorities aren't the hardcores priorities. I know your point is referring to how gameplay can change with tech improvements, but what does technology matter if people are preferring last gen experience. The real problem is most people can't readily feel or see the difference, I'm still trying to explain resolution to my friend with the 360 elite.

Grand Theft Auto 3 wasn't possible on the N64/PS1, and that's about as mass market as you can get.

The big things with the PS3 are online, HD, and scope/detail. We are in the phase where we are refining concepts that were pioneered in the previous generation, so it's harder to qualify what exactly could and could not be done on the 360/PS3 that could not be done on the Xbox/PS2/GC. It's very similar from the jump from the NES to the SNES.

 

[JB1981]

wait... what? Lost Planet sold 1 million, despite being underwhelming, Gears of war is on it's way to 4 million, and Halo 3 probably be in that area as well after a few months.

... or are you being sarcastic

What do you think dude?

 

[Pureauthor]

Grand Theft Auto 3 wasn't possible on the N64/PS1, and that's about as mass market as you can get.

...Um, hello? Brain training? Nintendogs? New Super Mario Bros.?

 

[ComputerNerd]

An trait they do not, unfortunately, share is an appreciation for higher-end technology. Apple has not abandoned that in the same way Nintendo has. Apple has a more balanced approached to their product from interface to design to technology.

Looking at the suggested costs from that article only makes me sadder about the level of technology in Wii. They could really have afforded more, even with a hard constraint of breaking even, if that article is correct. I hope other companies don't take too many lessons from it in the future with regard to technology investment and cost-price-ratios at least.

Too late. You really think the PS3, 360, or GameCube controllers really costed $30+ to make?

 

[Tobor]

Grand Theft Auto 3 wasn't possible on the N64/PS1, and that's about as mass market as you can get.

The big things with the PS3 are online, HD, and scope/detail. We are in the phase where we are refining concepts that were pioneered in the previous generation, so it's harder to qualify what exactly could and could not be done on the 360/PS3 that could not be done on the Xbox/PS2/GC. It's very similar from the jump from the NES to the SNES.

NES and SNES released at the exact same price point, so evolutionary increases were acceptable. How well would the SNES and Genesis sold had they released at double the price?

 

[v1cious]

...Um, hello? Brain training? Nintendogs? Wii Sports?

two of which are handhelds. do you think Brain Training and Nintendogs will work well restrained to a console?

 

[Tobor]

Yet there's a significant number of people that are interested in Bald Space Marines, as you put it. Gears of War's 4 million sold says Hi.

That is known as selling to the choir.

 

[v1cious]

That is known as selling to the choir.

must be a big choir

 

[JB1981]

I remember the days when Ntards used to claim that Xbox games sold well only because of the graphics! Bububu where is the gameplay? No one cares about gameplay anymore!

Now graphics mean nothing because the Wii has enjoyed some succees.

 

[Pureauthor]

two of which are handhelds. do you think Brain Training and Nintendogs will work well restrained to a console?

Fine, then switch the gamut to Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Health, and Wii Music (or whatever). Point stands.

 

[mcgarrett]

Yet there's a significant number of people that are interested in Bald Space Marines, as you put it. Gears of War's 4 million sold says Hi.

Right -- but an exceptionally pretty bald space marine game isn't going to drive casuals away from Wii Sports if they're not interested in bald space marines in the first place. So games like Lair and Mass Effect will have no effect on Wii sales IMO.

 

[methodman]

Grand Theft Auto 3 wasn't possible on the N64/PS1, and that's about as mass market as you can get.

The big things with the PS3 are online, HD, and scope/detail. We are in the phase where we are refining concepts that were pioneered in the previous generation, so it's harder to qualify what exactly could and could not be done on the 360/PS3 that could not be done on the Xbox/PS2/GC. It's very similar from the jump from the NES to the SNES.

When this generation started, I truly thought the graphics for the 360/PS3 would be a lot better then what they are. Wii graphics are not even close to 360/PS3, but it is what it is: At the same time though, 360/PS3 don't really seem like such a humongous step up like you're making it. That Madden video had me hyped up, then madden 06 comes out looking and playing like a piece of shit.

 

[MattXG]

Yet there's a significant number of people that are interested in Bald Space Marines, as you put it. Gears of War's 4 million sold says Hi.

Or that other little Space Marine game that started it all.....Halo.


Which I might add is probably the greatest juggernaut in the American Gaming World this year....

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So a writer, who is most likely not a gamer, is essentially saying that any companies pursuing the standard video game course that we have been on for the last 30 years are following the wrong course?

The last 30 years of gaming has not been dominated by expensive tech-pushers.

Maybe it is. On the other hand, Wii is coming after the huge success of the DS, 20 million Gamecube owners, and a low price tag. We all know how rabid Nintendo fans can be. Wii is pretty much a perfect storm for mass adoption among the existing fanbase.

Obviously there is going to be a lot of overlap, but I think the PS2 owners are not the same group. I wonder what happens after Wii sells to the Nintendo hardcore.

I do not believe a system that is impossible to find in stores is selling significant numbers to grandparents and soccer moms. At least not in the US.

Wii is Nintendo's most expensive home console yet. Based purely on price, there's no reason for GameCube owners to be picking up Wii more quickly. So if it's not only GameCube owners, and you don't think it's neo-gaming alpha moms, doesn't that leave a lot of room for PS2 owners to already be buying a Wii?

New candidate for itprintsmoney.gif?

iwata_gameboy.03.jpg

A great image, but gee they bungled the filename.

 

[Satter]

For a split second I thought he was holding up a badge.

"Elite Beat Agent. GET ON THE FUKKING GROUND!!!" :lol

 

[JB1981]

When this generation started, I truly thought the graphics for the 360/PS3 would be a lot better then what they are. Wii graphics are not even close to 360/PS3, but it is what it is: At the same time though, 360/PS3 don't really seem like such a humongous step up like you're making it. That Madden video had me hyped up, then madden 06 comes out looking and playing like a piece of shit.

That's just ridiculous. There are plenty of next-gen games that have seen enormous graphical advances, i.e. Motorstorm, Gears of War, GRAW 2.

 

[methodman]

That's just ridiculous. There are plenty of next-gen games that have seen enormous graphical advances, i.e. Motorstorm, Gears of War, GRAW 2.

Yay? You can make a list of all the games that have had great graphics improvements, but they are games that I haven't bought for my 360 (except GRAW 1/2 and Gears). There are games though, that are coming out that are looking very nice indeed (mass effect, bioshock, halo 3)

 

[dammitmattt]

...Um, hello? Brain training? Nintendogs? New Super Mario Bros.?

What do those games have to do with the fact that GTA3 wasn't possible on the N64/PS1?!?

 

[Satter]

"We decided that Nintendo was going to take another route - game expansion," says Iwata, seated on the edge of a leather chair, leaning over green tea in a three-piece suit, a strip of gray emerging along the part in his thick hair. He has an easy command of English but speaks through an interpreter. "We are not competing against Sony or Microsoft. We are battling the indifference of people who have no interest in videogames."

The first test of the strategy came in 2004 with the Nintendo DS. Handhelds weren't a new concept. Nintendo had sold tens of millions of Game Boys. But Sony's forthcoming PSP was being touted as a multimedia machine rich in technology and with an ability to play movies. Iwata went cheaper, smaller (the size of the device), and broader (the intended market). The DS has side-by-side screens, one of which is a touchscreen; Wi-Fi; and voice recognition - all to make it approachable and communal.

To put those features to use, Iwata conceived what would become one of the bestselling games for the DS, "Brain Age." Based on the brain-training regimen developed by a Japanese neuroscientist, "Brain Age" tests and improves mental acuity. With sales of more than 12 million copies, the title has made the DS a hit in such unlikely places as nursing homes. Iwata also oversaw development of a talking cookbook "game." And of course Miyamoto kicked in, creating the pet-care game "Nintendogs," which has moved more than 14 million copies. As of this spring the company has sold more than 40 million DS devices, compared with 25 million PSPs. So when it came time to launch the Wii, Nintendo already had a model to follow.

I've used this same arguement for sometime now. You can't compare the Wii to the DS because they're not in the same class, techinically speaking. But you can compare the idea behind them. Thinking outside the box has made the DS extremely popular. The Wii is on its way to experiencing the same popularity because of the same type of thinking.

 

[Tobor]

must be a big choir

Oh it is, no doubt about that. But no one is writing Fortune cover stories about Gears of War.

 

[JB1981]

Yay? You can make a list of all the games that have had great graphics improvements, but they are games that I haven't bought for my 360 (except GRAW 1/2 and Gears). There are games though, that are coming out that are looking very nice indeed (mass effect, bioshock, halo 3)

Just because you haven't bought them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Next-gen has been a pretty significant step up. Do you have an HDTV?

 

[theBishop]

Wii is Nintendo's most expensive home console yet. Based purely on price, there's no reason for GameCube owners to be picking up Wii more quickly. So if it's not only GameCube owners, and you don't think it's neo-gaming alpha moms, doesn't that leave a lot of room for PS2 owners to already be buying a Wii?

I doubt $50 really affected anyone's decision to purchase a Wii... least of all the fanboys who i suspect make up the largest percentage of current Wii owners.

You really think embattled Gamecube fanboys looked at the Wii and said "$250!? WOAH!... No thanks, Nintendo!"

Anyway, I'm not claiming that nobody who owns a Wii also owns a PS2. But if you did most of your gaming on a PS2 this past generation, what is Wii offering that appeals to any of that system's most popular games?

 

[JB1981]

Oh it is, no doubt about that. But no one is writing Fortune cover stories about Gears of War.

And that is all that matters to you people. It doesn't matter that the machine you support is a piece of junk. As long as it sells. As long as it sells. The Nintendo fan mantra.

As long as it sells.

But really, who could blame you after being beaten down for so long.

 

[superbank]

- Wii Remote is cheap to make
Accelerometer: $2.50
Basic Memory Chip: $0.25
Audio Amplifier: $0.50
Data Converter: $0.50
Rumble Pack: $2.50
Bluetooth Chip: $2.00
Audio Translator: $2.00
Plastic Casing: Unknown
Wrist Strap: Unkown

What about the infared camera? Thats gotta add to the price.

 

[Pureauthor]

What do those games have to do with the fact that GTA3 wasn't possible on the N64/PS1?!?

They're all far more mainstream than GTA. I was referring to your claim that GTA is 'about as mainstream as it gets'.

And that is all that matters to you people. It doesn't matter that the machine you support is a piece of junk. As long as it sells. As long as it sells. The Nintendo fan mantra.

As long as it sells.

But really, who could blame you after being beaten down for so long.

This is a sales thread, man.

 

[dammitmattt]

The last 30 years of gaming has not been dominated by expensive tech-pushers.

Ummm, I was referring to gameplay experiences. I'm not sure what tech has to do with it.

 

[JB1981]

sales thread[/i], man.

That's what every Nintendo thread is. It's also happens to be the threads where you spend most of your time.

 

[Pureauthor]

That's what every Nintendo thread is. It's also happens to be the threads you spend most of your time in.

Duh. That's about the only thing GAF is good for.

And no, it's not what every Nintendo thread is. Maybe you should take a look at the title of the thread and the opening post.

 

[dammitmattt]

They're all far more mainstream than GTA. I was referring to your claim that GTA is 'about as mainstream as it gets'.

This is a sales thread, man.

Is that why they each outsold all three PS2 GTA games in the US?

Your argument is so ****ing asinine. I wasn't even trying to compare GTA to any of Nintendo's mass-market games. You are now arguing with me for arguing's sake.

 

[Y2Kev]

Why does it matter what LAIR sells? I was just reading up on the previous page (because I hate myself) and Tobor said that LAIR is a poor example of what next gen means over last gen because it will bomb. Why is this a bad example?

 

[v1cious]

Fine, then switch the gamut to Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Health, and Wii Music (or whatever). Point stands.

i don't think any of those will break 2 million outside of Japan. we'll see though

 

[JB1981]

Duh. It's the only thing I care about

fixed.

 

[Pureauthor]

Your argument is so ****ing asinine. I wasn't even trying to compare GTA to any of Nintendo's mass-market games. You are now arguing with me for arguing's sake.

Then what were you trying to compare it to? Other 'hardcore' games?

fixed.

Go away.

 

[gwiz210]

Its crazy how this time last gen Nintendo was down right ignorant about popular fads in the gaming industry and now their making their own trends. I guess it just took awhile.

 

[mcgarrett]

And that is all that matters to you people. It doesn't matter that the machine you support is a piece of junk. As long as it sells. As long as it sells. The Nintendo fan mantra.

As long as it sells.

But really, who could blame you after being beaten down for so long.

Er no, it's just fun to play. My folks had a big Memorial Day party that was rained out, so I took my Wii along and everyone young and old had a blast playing Wii Sports. If I had taken my 360 and Gears I would have been playing by myself.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?

 

[ziran]

Judging by the Wii's third-party lineup, having higher dev costs might have been a good thing

Also, don't kid yourself. Graphics have always mattered to everyone who plays games. People always want something bigger, better, faster, etc.

Historically, Nintendo fans have always praised graphics because the SNES looked better, the N64 sometimes looked better, and the Gamecube could be almost on par with the Xbox (hello RE4 and Rogue Squadron 2). However, now that Nintendo fans can't trumpet the graphics, they suddenly don't care about graphics? I've been interested in this industry so long that it's been interesting to see this shift.

:lol

I've never said that graphics matter more than gameplay, but if graphics didn't matter at all like you and Link are claiming, we'd still be playing PS1 and N64 games and there would never have been a PS2.

People stopped playing N64 and PS1 games because developers moved to PS2. They instigated the change, not consumers (like Pureauthor said).

I wondered when the point of diminishing returns would hit, and I thought it would be GC/Xbox level, but I was wrong, because my view was steeped in the hardcore psyche. Once I saw the sales of DS sw, I realised graphics really don't matter one bit to make a brilliant game or please the mass market.

It's obvious you're going to think what you want to think, and disagree with what I'm saying, which is fine, but I feel just as strongly about my view. This generation is going to kill the graphics arms race once and for all, and piss a lot of hardcore gamers off in the process, but hey, shit happens. And I don't say this with glee, because I can appreciate HD visuals, I say this in as matter of fact a way as I possibly can.

What do those games have to do with the fact that GTA3 wasn't possible on the N64/PS1?!?

I think you're getting carried away. You claimed, quite comically, 'Graphics have always mattered to everyone who plays games. People always want something bigger, better, faster, etc.', this is false.

It's not that GTA3 didn't appeal to a huge audience, it did, it's the very clear fact graphics don't matter to everyone who plays games, as you so vehemently try to defend.

There are millions of people out there who play videogames and don't give a shit about graphics, get over it.


EDIT-

i don't think any of those will break 2 million outside of Japan. we'll see though

You mean like Nintendogs, Brain Training and Animal Crossing?

You don't think it's likely Nintendo understands how to appeal to the audience for these new, fun, experiences by now?

 

[Tobor]

Why does it matter what LAIR sells? I was just reading up on the previous page (because I hate myself) and Tobor said that LAIR is a poor example of what next gen means over last gen because it will bomb. Why is this a bad example?

Read further Kev. It matters in relation to the The Bishop's argument.

 

[ComputerNerd]

Come to think of it, this thread in and of itself I think lends evidence to the thought that the Wii already "won".

By the level of pissed off people. Same thing happened last gen when Nintendo fans realized that the PS2 had won the generation. There were lots of pissed off people. Same thing when XBox fans realized the PS2 won.

Or when N64 fans or Saturn fans realized that the PSX won.

It appears that we're moving past the denial stage, and into anger. Not a fun stage, I must say.

 

[gwiz210]

For a split second I thought he was holding up a badge.

"Elite Beat Agent. GET ON THE FUKKING GROUND!!!" :lol

"Get on the ****ing Ground" lol heres hoping for an M-Rated EBA.

 

[dammitmattt]

Then what were you trying to compare it to? Other 'hardcore' games?

It was an example of a PS2 game that could not have been done on the PS1. Simple as that. The point flew completely over your head.

 

[Pureauthor]

It was an example of a PS2 game that could not have been done on the PS1. Simple as that. The point flew completely over your head.

No, wait are you actually trying to tell me that it was because that it couldn't be done on the PS1 that it became as 'mainstream' as it was?

 

[Tobor]

And that is all that matters to you people. It doesn't matter that the machine you support is a piece of junk. As long as it sells. As long as it sells. The Nintendo fan mantra.

As long as it sells.

But really, who could blame you after being beaten down for so long.

Oh get over yourself. We have been through this with Matt. No Ntards here, very sorry. Now go away, the adults are talking.

 

[MattXG]

Maybe it is. On the other hand, Wii is coming after the huge success of the DS, 20 million Gamecube owners, and a low price tag. We all know how rabid Nintendo fans can be. Wii is pretty much a perfect storm for mass adoption among the existing fanbase.

Obviously there is going to be a lot of overlap, but I think the PS2 owners are not the same group. I wonder what happens after Wii sells to the Nintendo hardcore.

I do not believe a system that is impossible to find in stores is selling significant numbers to grandparents and soccer moms. At least not in the US.

This is part of the reason I expect Wii sales to implode starting next year....

Thanks to 10 years of Sony domination Nintendo's franchises don't pull the same weight that they once did, too.

Wii hasn't even passed 360 sales WW yet and everyone is already crowning them the champs. Wait until the allure of not being able to find a Wii in stores ends. Wait until the waggle is yesterday's news. Wait until the masses get bored of playing Wii Sports, Wait until you can get a 360 core for $199 combined with its line-up of games coming in late 07...

Atleast here in the US, a lot can go wrong and I'm betting a lot WILL go wrong for Nintendo's Wii.....

 

[Haunted]

nvm.

I feel this is going nowhere, so I'm out.

 

[Y2Kev]

Read further Kev. It matters in relation to the The Bishop's argument.

Oh, that's such a lame argument.

The line of argument as I read it was that theBishop was arguing LAIR was the type of game that would allow us to truly see what "next-gen" could do for games in terms of gameplay and you said that this would not be possible because no one would play it. That's so meen ^_^

 

[jetles]

want a cookie?

 

[Pureauthor]

Thanks to 10 years of Sony domination Nintendo's franchises don't pull the same weight that they once did, too.

They squandered the past ten years of domination the instant the words 'five hundred and ninety nine U.S dollars' left Kaz Hirai's lips at E3 2006.

 

[dammitmattt]

People stopped playing N64 and PS1 games because developers moved to PS2. They instigated the change, not consumers (like Pureauthor said).

So why didn't Sony duct tape two PS1s together to make the PS2?

I wondered when the point of diminishing returns would hit, and I thought it would be GC/Xbox level, but I was wrong, because my view was steeped in the hardcore psyche. Once I saw the sales of DS sw, I realised graphics really don't matter one bit to make a brilliant game or please the mass market.

It's obvious you're going to think what you want to think, and disagree with what I'm saying, which is fine, but I feel just as strongly about my view. This generation is going to kill the graphics arms race once and for all, and piss a lot of hardcore gamers off in the process, but hey, shit happens. And I don't say this with glee, because I can appreciate HD visuals, I say this in as matter of fact a way as I possibly can.

I think you're getting carried away. You claimed, quite comically, 'Graphics have always mattered to everyone who plays games. People always want something bigger, better, faster, etc.', this is false.

It's not that GTA3 didn't appeal to a huge audience, it did, it's the very clear fact graphics don't matter to everyone who plays games, as you so vehemently try to defend.

There are millions of people out there, an entire audience, who play videogames and don't give a shit about graphics, get over it.

Graphics will continue to improve, just as technology has improved in EVERY entertainment medium. It might improve less quickly than it has in the past, but it will ALWAYS improve.