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[Mimosa97]

Dieudonne has inspired terrorism in the past and has wished that Jewish opponents of his would have been put in gas chambers, this guy is a freak.

I despise antisemites like him and i think he's a piece of shit but what you're saying is utter bullshit.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Update: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/14/dieudonne-trial-charlie-hebdo_n_6472480.html

French Comedian Dieudonne To Stand Trial Over Facebook Post On Paris Attacks

This is ridiculous.

 

[Mimosa97]

I just find it quite humourous that you would talk about a protected minority when 5 Jews were killed not a week ago because they were Jews, and 4 two years ago in a school (3 of which were children, one dragged by the hairs before getting executed), when synagogues are closed, when Jewish schools and Jewish shops have to be protected by the military. Today, in France.

Same regarding parodies and drawing seeing the number of blatantly antisemitic ones that do exist (coming from France, or the Middle-East or pretty much anywhere) without any of the authors being sued, tried or you know... murdered.

I know you're talking about legal proceedings there but still. Being sued (a trial which in France any association can trigger) is not being condemned. Siné, Dieudonné and Charlie Hebdo were all sued a lot. None of them were condemned much.

Dieudonné is a hate preacher, an attention seeker and a money maker. He doesn't mock religion or ideas, he mocks Jews (and now Jews only) especially holocaust victims.He could rot in a cell for all I care, but I don't think his arrest was a good idea (because that's exactly what he wanted, because it reinforces his disgusting conspiracy theories, and because it fuels hate) let alone banning his show which was legally unsound on top of being absolutely counter-productive.

This. I agree 100%.

The fact that you're directly targeted by this piece of shit everytime he opens his mouth and yet you can stay lucide about the whole situation is just admirable. I applaud you.

 

[TheJLC]

Lol at the whole argument that hate speech is not free speech. Free speech ensures that hate speech is protected no matter how unpopular it is. If you don't protect it, there is no free speech.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I despise antisemites like him and i think he's a piece of shit but what you're saying is utter bullshit.

Didn't those who shot up that Jewish museum last year use the Quenelle as well as their lawyers?

And there was:

When I hear [Jewish journalist] Cohen speak, I tell myself, you know, the gas chambers ... Shame," he said.

 

[The Incarnation]

You pretend like free choice is somehow absolute and social barriers do not exist, a libertarian notion that is completely disconnected from reality. Look at the employment statistics for Somali females in various European countries for example and make some rudimentary comparisons. I am not some white knight thinking that women are delicate flowers we must protect, I am just looking at the reality of disenfranchisement. The prospects are rather grim in many Muslim communities.

There's no pretending from me. Free choice is absolute (Meaning: In how and what we think). It's the only one of two things we get for free in life, the other, what we choose to do with our time. It's upto you if you want to throw it away. If you want to do that, you can start by not believing in it. Then boom, your fate is subject to social conditioning. Game over.

Social barriers exist if you believe them to. People are good enough at hypnotising themselves plenty before any social construct gets in the road though.


Most Muslims do quite well financially from what I've seen. And they're certainly not disenfranchised in the UK.

Now people who convert to Islam however, well, Islam appeals to the victims in society, especially the minority underclass, the ones on the fringe of society, those are the ones who are ripe for radicalisation. It shouldn't take a genius to work out why.

 

[Chezzymann]

To me, the only time hate speech isn't okay is if it is a specific threat against someone's life. If it offends or insults someone or something, no matter how sensitive, it should be allowed.

 

[Jb]

What is harm? Physical harm? If some body is advocating physical harm, there are better laws already to prosecute on. Mental harm? You know it seems like we wouldn't have known this asshat said these things if he wasn't prosecuted.

He's fucking Dieudonné. Of course we would have. Have you put any effort into researching what we're talking about?

A whole lot of people sure have very ferm opiniosn ITT about laws and personalities they 're completely unfamiliar with.

Here's a helpful link for those who actually want to learn about what this is about before running their mouth.

 

[BaronLundi]

This. I agree 100%.

The fact that you're directly targeted by this piece of shit everytime he opens his mouth and yet you can stay lucide about the whole situation is just admirable. I applaud you.

Came across him a few times. Won't say the urge to punch him didn't rise... But yeah I do think it would be easier to make it so that his speeches would fall on deaf ears than to shut him up illegally.

Thank you (it's hard though .

 

[NEO0MJ]

Pathetic. Free speech my ass.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I feel like i'm losing my time saying this but i'll say it anyways. I know almost everything there is to know about Dieudonné and the whole " quenelle " (the gesture he invented) controversy. You can believe me or not but that gesture has NOTHING to do with a nazi salute.

Now let me be clear, Dieudonné is an antisemite of the worst kind. There is ZERO doubt about that. He has close ties with one of the most fanatic french antisemite, Alain Soral, and he's obsessed with Jews. But doesn't change the fact that the gesture isn't a hitlerian salute. It originates from a very VERY old show of his, where he mimicked penetrating a mamal's ass with his hand. Saying " This is a quenelle in your ass " And gradually using his other hand to show how far he pushed his hand inside the animal's arse.

It's a very vulgar gesture, he started making it for about everything. When talking about a politician he hates he would do it, when talking about a journalist or an intellectual or a singer. And THEN some of his fans started posting pictures of themselves doing it and some of them did it in Auschwitz. Young thugs thinking it was funny to do it there and post those photos on the internet. That's when people started saying that it was a hitlerian salute. But it never was. The thugs who did it in Auschwitz were Antisemites who were basically saying " fuck jews ", but had no nazi affiliation or whatever. but that doesn't change the fact that the quenelle wasn't and never was a nazi salute.

Again, i couldn't care less about Dieudonné, he's always trying to provoke and victimize himself and has no respect for the families of dead people, jewish and non-jewish. But this is absolutely wrong for the government to use him as a scapegoat. My friend is a lawyer and he just posted on facebook that there is absolutely ZERO chance that he gets condemned for saying " Today i feel like i'm Charlie Coulibaly " ( Coulibaly was the name of one of the terrorists). Dieudonné later said that it was show how much he felt like the government was treating him like a terrorist when he was just a comedian. Censoring his shows already was a terrible mistake and it was a first since the second world war. It opened a pandora box. True justice is to wait for a comedian to make his show and then AFTER that you can take him to court if he says racist and antisemitic jokes. But what happened is that his show was banned BEFORE he performed it on the basis of some stolen footage, which was a first, This isn't how we do things in a democracy. At the end, he took out 3 jokes from his show and was allowed to perform it again, and he toured for many months.

Dieudonné is a piece of shit but what the government is doing is completely wrong. And anyone supporting this decision is blind.

Thanks for the explanation. It felt like some context was missing.
It sounds like Dieudonne should have gotten in trouble, but not for what he has actually gotten in trouble for. That's not good!

 

[MoodyFog]

Didn't those who shot up that Jewish museum last year use the Quenelle as well as their lawyers?

And there was:

You're using the same rationale that some people use to explain how a guy shot up his school because of marilyn manson or video games

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

You're using the same rationale that some people use to explain how a guy shot up his school because of marilyn manson or video games

But the Quenelle is only a symbol for hating Jews...

I mean, if GTA was exclusively saying "yes, hatred and violence are good and you should support those feelings you have in yourself onto events in real life"...

 

[Mimosa97]

Didn't those who shot up that Jewish museum last year use the Quenelle as well as their lawyers?

And there was:

This is despicable humor but this only half the joke and you're taking it out of context.

FIrst, Cohen said on national TV something in the lines of " Dieudonné is sick in the head " or " Dieudonné has a sick brain " something like that. And called for all medias to ban him and not talk about him. Again, he had no right to do so, but i obviously understand why he said it.
Dieudonné later answered in one of his shows " I can say everything i want cause i'm sick in the head, Cohen said it. So i'll say that when I hear Cohen speak, I tell myself, you know, the gas chambers ... Shame. Shut up shut up i can say anything i want i'm sick in the head. ". He was playing a character who was sick in the head as depicted by Cohen. And this crazy character was saying that it was too bad gaz chambers didn't exist anymore. And obv they didn't show the whole joke on TV but only that tiny part and that one sentence, which created a shitstorm in the medias.

Again, it's a disgusting joke and i couldn't care less about Dieudonné but i don't like when someone takes jokes or puns out of context.

 

[Palette Swap]

Nobody should ever be prosecuted for saying anything.

I don't necessarily disagree in this case, but as a general, absolute rule, it sounds terrible because you're implying that violating privileges like lawyer-client or physician-patient shouldn't be prosecutable.

 

[MoodyFog]

But the Quenelle is only a symbol for hating Jews...

Except it's not, read the thread

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

This is despicable humor but this only half the joke and you're taking it out of context.

FIrst, Cohen said on national TV something in the lines of " Dieudonné is sick in the head " or " Dieudonné has a sick brain " something like that. And called for all medias to ban him and not talk about him. Again, he had no right to do so, but i obviously understand why he said it.
Dieudonné later answered in one of his shows " I can say everything i want cause i'm sick in the head, Cohen said it. So i'll say that when I hear Cohen speak, I tell myself, you know, the gas chambers ... Shame. Shut up shut up i can say anything i want i'm sick in the head. ". He was playing a character who was sick in the head as depicted by Cohen. And this crazy character was saying that it was too bad gaz chambers didn't exist anymore. And obv they didn't show the whole joke on TV but only that tiny part and that one sentence, which created a shitstorm in the medias.

Again, it's a disgusting joke and i couldn't care less about Dieudonné but i don't like when someone takes jokes or puns out of context.

Hmm, did not see that from the reports I read in English media, thank you.

 

[Schweinehund]

There's some degree of irony in honoring the deaths of cartoonists who died for free speech by arresting people for making dumb jokes on Facebook.

exactly.

 

[lethial]

So free speech in france= mock the muslims but leave the jews alone?

Its like you didn't even read the op.

 

[The Incarnation]

Update: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/14/dieudonne-trial-charlie-hebdo_n_6472480.html

French Comedian Dieudonne To Stand Trial Over Facebook Post On Paris Attacks

I feel for this guy.

Once got banned from my local pub for a facebook post.

 

[Mimosa97]

And I live very close by his infamous hate theater. Came across him a few times. Won't say the urge to punch him didn't rise... But yeah I do think it would be easier to make it so that his speeches would fall on deaf ears than to shut him up illegally.

Thank you (it's hard though .

Oh god ...

That's what i call insane self-control lol

As for Dieudonné, he's already losing a lot of his fans/disciples. I say let him be, let him make his money, let his fans keep wasting their money on him. Just forget the guy. The Prime Minister has been acting like his PR agent ... ffs ...

 

[ICKE]

I feel for this guy.

Once got banned from my local pub for a facebook post.

Maybe you should feel for those who are victimized, because of his incendiary rhetoric. There is a reason why many Jews are leaving France and their communities. They are scared some nut job is going to harm them physically and there is evidence to suggest that many areas in Europe are becoming more anti-Semitic.

The worst that will happen to this comedian is a fine that he can use as a tool for more publicity. I suppose that result is the best argument against taking any action against him but I don't like to give too much room for clowns like him. This is an endless argument though, we've had it many times and it is just a rift that is impossible to remove because people approach this subject from completely different viewpoints.

Exodus: Why Europe's Jews Are Fleeing Once Again

 

[PdotMichael]

Lol at the whole argument that hate speech is not free speech. Free speech ensures that hate speech is protected no matter how unpopular it is. If you don't protect it, there is no free speech.

Like insults aren't protected by free speech as well.

That's some special Neogaf discussion again.

 

[Kinyou]

At face value and to your average Joe. That's not what it looks like. The creator say any number of things - the face value of his work is what's most important (because that's what people see)

I'm not sure if satire should be made for the average Joe who doesn't even look for a deeper meaning. The cartoon literally turns Mohammed's head into a bomb. It's abstract, he's not looking like a suicide bomber.
The only logical interpretation to me is that it depicts how terrorists are turning his thoughts into bombs.

 

[Cartman86]

this ass hat has a history of hate speech,
he started a downward seig-heil thing a while back,

and hate speech laws are in place in France.

he deserves to be arrested

a policewoman lost her life in service while that Dieudonné fucktard sides with the terrorist criminal who took away her life

Fucktard is a type of hateful language about the mentally handicapped. Should you be arrested or fined?

You should be criticized, shamed, or ignored. Just like this sorry excuse for a human being. But not arrested.

 

[lednerg]

He wasn't arrested for hate speech, at least not this time. It was for "glorifying terrorism".

 

[gutter_trash]

Fucktard is a type of hateful language about the mentally handicapped. Should you be arrested or fined?

You should be criticized, shamed, or ignored. Just like this sorry excuse for a human being. But not arrested.

I love your avatar by the way, but seriously you should do some research on this guy.

 

[Chezzymann]

There's some degree of irony in honoring the deaths of cartoonists who died for free speech by arresting people for making dumb jokes on Facebook.

Perfect. Said what I was thinking perfectly.

Spoiler

Steals this comment and puts it on Facebook

 

[Joni]

See extremists, this is how you handle speech you consider hate speech. You get the law to judge on it.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I love your avatar by the way, but seriously you should do some research on this guy.

This thread has already given accounts that the quenelle is not related to Nazism at all, contrary to your post. What research should we be doing?

I don't doubt he's a piece of shit for a human being. That doesn't mean I think he should be arrested for his post.

 

[The Incarnation]

Maybe you should feel for those who are victimized, because of his incendiary rhetoric. There is a reason why many Jews are leaving France and their communities. They are scared some nut job is going to harm them physically and there is evidence to suggest that many areas in Europe are becoming more anti-Semitic.

The worst that will happen to this comedian is a fine that he can use as a tool for more publicity. I suppose that is the best argument taking any action against him but I don't like to give too much room for clowns like this. This is an endless argument though, we've had it many times and it is just a rift that is impossible to remove because people approach this subject from completely different viewpoints.

Their choice. Everyone has the desire and right to be comfortable wherever they are in the world. But personally I'd rather they not give in to fear and hate though.

Any old man walking their dog at night probably has the same fear. A black youth in the States probably would be wise to be on their guard as well. A woman from a man, a man from his neighbour, etc, etc.

Since fear and grief are universal emotions, I'd expect a lot more empathy from the human race. Yet all succumb to hate, the God most people worship.

 

[Nikodemos]

Dieudonné should be ignored, not fined/tried. Doing otherwise is ridiculously hypocritical.

 

[gutter_trash]

what do you expect from a guy who is named himself God Given

 

[Mimosa97]

what do you expect from a guy who is named himself God Given

I for sure don't expect much from a guy named gutter_trash.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Hot damn..

what do you expect from a guy who is named himself God Given

I for sure don't expect much from a guy named gutter_trash.

HOT DAMN!!

 

[TheStruggler]

what do you expect from a guy who is named himself God Given

I for sure don't expect much from a guy named gutter_trash.

 

[gutter_trash]

I for sure don't expect much from a guy named gutter_trash.

 

[ComputerMKII]

what do you expect from a guy who is named himself God Given

Dieudonné is a French name meaning "Gift of God" and thus similar to the Greek-derived Theodore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieudonné

It's also derived from latin Adeodatus (A Deo datus)

Also, his parents chose his name, not himself.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I always did hate Theodores.

 

[SketchTheArtist]

I for sure don't expect much from a guy named gutter_trash.

Gatdamn son!

 

[squidyj]

Are hate speech laws incredibly strict in france I find it hard to see how this rises to that definition, dude might be a piece of shit but this just seems tasteless.

 

[Aureon]

Agreed. Hate speech is speech I find offensive, whereas free speech is speech I don't.

No.
Hate speech is direct incitation to violence or discrimination.

"Muslims are all terrorists and shouldn't be allowed to live in France" = Hate Speech.
"Mohammad fucked little girls" = Not hate speech.

Groups with a huge history of being targeted are better protected. That, usually, means Jews.

 

[Dr.Acula]

No.
Hate speech is direct incitation to violence or discrimination.

"Muslims are all terrorists and shouldn't be allowed to live in France" = Hate Speech.
"Mohammad " = Not hate speech.

Groups with a huge history of being targeted are better protected. That, usually, means Jews.

"Muslims are all terrorists and shouldn't be allowed to live in France" = Hate Speech.
"Mohammad " = Not hate speech.
"I feel I am Charlie Coulibaly.” = ???

 

[BaronLundi]

Please bear in mind that France is incredibly tense right now and that more than 50 people are being tried for apology of terrorism since the attacks, including a guy, slightly mentally deficient who drunkenly declared "They killed Charlie and me I laughed. In the past they already killed Ben Laden, Saddam Hussein, Mohamed Merah and many other brothers...".

6 months in prison.

Yes, this is all very stupid.

 

[BrainZEROX]

"Muslims are all terrorists and shouldn't be allowed to live in France" = Hate Speech.
"Mohammad " = Not hate speech.
"I feel I am Charlie Coulibaly.” = ???

We don't know yet. Justice will decide, he may as well win it. He is not condemned, he's just being sued, just like Charlie Hebdo was for its cartoons. It's extremely unlikely Dieudonne will be shot though.

The reason he was arrested is that he refused to answer a summons. Not because he was found out guilty.

 

[Mimosa97]

"Muslims are all terrorists and shouldn't be allowed to live in France" = Hate Speech.
"Mohammad " = Not hate speech.
"I feel I am Charlie Coulibaly.” = ???

I feel I am Charlie Coulibaly = Dumb and pathetic statement from an attention seeking whore.

The government has gone too far. At this point Dieudonné has become their scapegoat. There are more urgent things to do than waste time talking about Dieudonné and prosecuting him.
Now he's becoming a double threat to the jewish community. First he attacks them in his shows/youtube videos, and secondly he can play the victim and say " You see, there are double standards in this country, Jews are over-protected, they own the country. This country is ruled by the Mossad ! " or again " Where is my freedom of expression ? A journal like Charlie Hebdo can shit on islam on a weekly basis but i can't express my feelings without being prosecuted ? I'm a man of peace, a non-violent man, this is a disgrace ! ". And that's how he can seduce a lot of the weak-minded and play the victim card as long as he can.

I don't know what kind of game the government is playing but it's a very dangerous one. And this piece of shit will keep making as much money as he can out of this publicity.

 

[meppi]

I'm trying to comprehend how what he wrote in any way condones terrorism, but that might just be me. :-/

The guy sounds like a complete fucktard from the stories posted here, but I don't see any reason for him to be arrested, let alone prosecuted for this Facebook post...

I feel for this guy.

Once got banned from my local pub for a facebook post.

Lol. Really? Now there's a story I want to hear.

 

[BaronLundi]

You see, there are double standards in this country, Jews are over-protected, they own the country. This country is ruled by the Mossad ! "

Well have you noticed?

C H A R L I E
~~~~~~~~~~
I C H R A E L

Coincidence? I think not.

And:

It was all for Netanyahu!!!

 

[BocoDragon]

Not really consistent with the freedom of speech at all costs message around this whole incident. It definitely waters down the message.

 

[Palette Swap]

Yeah, the bottom of it is way more political than anything else. They want to look like that they're having a hardline on terrorism so they're taking that recent law for a spin, to show they don't fuck around.
It's incredibly stupid and transparent but gives the illusion of action, which sums up politics in this country.