She took those votes for granted. IIRC, She didn't even campaign in Wisconsin for example.
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Full Frontal with Samantha Bee - White people fucked up
- Thread starter Keasar
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She took those votes for granted. IIRC, She didn't even campaign in Wisconsin for example.
blame space
Banned
she nailed it
IamDodongo
Member
Of all the things troubling me right now, there's one that people seem to have a really hard time talking about, so I want to discuss it out in the open and without derision or further obstacles to understanding. So here it is:
I don't think blue collar white people should get a pass on letting a Trump presidency happen, and I think acting like they don't understand the implications of what will happen is selling them short. Every voting-eligible American made a choice in 2016 (yes, not voting is also a choice), and tacitly or explicitly we have steered ourselves in this direction.
I don't think anyone should get a pass on this just because they've had it rough or because they don't usually participate in electoral representation. My family has lived in rural Appalachia for as long as small towns have existed there. I know these people. Am I supposed to pretend like working class Americans are too simple to understand what's going on? I don't believe it, and if you're so concerned about insulting them, don't insult their intelligence either.
Blue collar workers are smart people, and good people too, but they've been swindled just like millions of others have been swindled. It's okay, we can address this with civility. Trust me, there is plenty of fair blame to go around for the situation we're in, and it's okay to talk about it. We HAVE to talk about it. The polarization that's happening in America is a disease, and we cannot retreat into our corners and pretend our own problems are the only problems. To quote a friend of mine, people have started backing their horses on issues before they even know anything about them.
I understand what kind of vice-like cultural anxiety is gripping some small towns. I'm not trying to be insensitive, and honestly this has everything to do with empathy. Part of being a responsible adult is weighing the consequences of complex choices, even if you don't like any of the choices you're seeing.
Through our actions or inactions, we all hold some degree of personal responsibility for this mess, and that culpability cannot be ignored or shifted. We can't sweep this under the rug or sheepishly choose which consequences to address. Stare this in the face and look at it for what it is. Whether you played a part or not, millions of people are likely to harmed by this path we’re headed down. Yes, our country did just elect a President who says his SCOTUS nominee may overturn Roe v. Wade. Yes, our country did just elect a Vice President who announced a plan to roll back LGBT rights. Millions of Americans are about to be considered a little less human by our government, and I refuse to turn a blind eye to it.
If you’re okay with a large-scale scapegoating of everyone who is different from you, then own it, because passive acceptance is the same thing. Address this situation wholesale, because it’s not just yours, it’s everyone’s. We can’t pass the buck on what’s happening, and we can’t just sit back pretend it’s not so bad. This situation is extremely fucked up, and the more we talk about it, the better.
I don't think blue collar white people should get a pass on letting a Trump presidency happen, and I think acting like they don't understand the implications of what will happen is selling them short. Every voting-eligible American made a choice in 2016 (yes, not voting is also a choice), and tacitly or explicitly we have steered ourselves in this direction.
I don't think anyone should get a pass on this just because they've had it rough or because they don't usually participate in electoral representation. My family has lived in rural Appalachia for as long as small towns have existed there. I know these people. Am I supposed to pretend like working class Americans are too simple to understand what's going on? I don't believe it, and if you're so concerned about insulting them, don't insult their intelligence either.
Blue collar workers are smart people, and good people too, but they've been swindled just like millions of others have been swindled. It's okay, we can address this with civility. Trust me, there is plenty of fair blame to go around for the situation we're in, and it's okay to talk about it. We HAVE to talk about it. The polarization that's happening in America is a disease, and we cannot retreat into our corners and pretend our own problems are the only problems. To quote a friend of mine, people have started backing their horses on issues before they even know anything about them.
I understand what kind of vice-like cultural anxiety is gripping some small towns. I'm not trying to be insensitive, and honestly this has everything to do with empathy. Part of being a responsible adult is weighing the consequences of complex choices, even if you don't like any of the choices you're seeing.
Through our actions or inactions, we all hold some degree of personal responsibility for this mess, and that culpability cannot be ignored or shifted. We can't sweep this under the rug or sheepishly choose which consequences to address. Stare this in the face and look at it for what it is. Whether you played a part or not, millions of people are likely to harmed by this path we’re headed down. Yes, our country did just elect a President who says his SCOTUS nominee may overturn Roe v. Wade. Yes, our country did just elect a Vice President who announced a plan to roll back LGBT rights. Millions of Americans are about to be considered a little less human by our government, and I refuse to turn a blind eye to it.
If you’re okay with a large-scale scapegoating of everyone who is different from you, then own it, because passive acceptance is the same thing. Address this situation wholesale, because it’s not just yours, it’s everyone’s. We can’t pass the buck on what’s happening, and we can’t just sit back pretend it’s not so bad. This situation is extremely fucked up, and the more we talk about it, the better.
How About No
Member
I think I'm in love
Yeah, I caught this too.
I feel like the thing being missed in the introspection, even when guys like Moore were saying this pretty openly and we just ignored him, is that Democrats don't need to ignore minorities and just listen to rural America. You just need to do both. Just fucking listen to them too. At least pretend for fuck's sake.
I am sitting here thinking about how upset I have been over these past couple days, and I wonder, how angry are those folks from WI that even after all this, other Democrats still aren't listening today. They're too busy inventing that dialogue on their behalf.
Michael Moore has talked about this a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc&feature=youtu.be
While I think he glosses over all the -isms Trump used, he also makes a valid point about the frustrated working class and their growing hatred for the establishment. I was talking to my in-laws and they're as blue collar as you can imagine. Despite not liking Trump personally, they got his appeal. To them he isn't so much about building bridges but smashing the whole thing down. People like Jeb! and Hillary represent the status quo they despise and feel has ignored them. They don't want to hear about re-training or tax credits, they want their jobs back. I don't know what to say to sway them. Those jobs are gone and they ain't coming back.
Yeah these jobs are already starting to disappear from the places they fled to thanks to automation. I'm sure Trump'll figure something out for them though; no doubt.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
She's purposely contradictory because white people never deal with this except when people like Bee make contradictory jokes. It's our privilege to be treated as individuals. It highlights how fucking shit we are to other people by making us consider being treated the way we treat others.
entremet
Member
Yep. All this monday morning quarterbacking falls into on objective point--Clinton failed to get 6 Million votes that was present in the Obama coalition.
That's a failure on the DNC.
excelsiorlef
Member
He won't, and that's my one hope for the next 4 years is that it's a wake-up call to all those that voted for him to "save our jobs".
It's not going to happen. They blame Mexicans and immigrants for taking the jobs, but most of those jobs were replaced by machines. When suddenly the factories don't toss out the robot assembly lines and give them employment back, that'll breed disillusionment.
Trump rode that wave hard - far harder than Clinton ever did - but it's a big, bold promise with little merit. But to a desperate man who lost his job and watched his town collapse and struggles to feed his family, a false promise is better to his ears than no promise at all.
I think the problem with that comes from privilege. These people wanted to shake things up so badly that they didn't care that other people's rights would be reduced. They didn't care about the emboldened racists/sexists/bigots hurting or harassing others.
"Electing him may hypothetically do a lot of harm to minorities."
"In this hypothetical, am I still a well to do, straight white guy?"
"Yes."
"Shake up the system!"
I'm not claiming your father thinks that way. It just happens to be easier to call for an outsider when they will primarily do damage to the "other." Waiting out the 4 years is not a big deal when you're the majority and protected.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This whole anti-establishment excuse is ridiculous. You are NOT going to hire a plumber to do create your website and you are not going to hire a programmer to fix your toilet.
You need a politician to work with other politicians. You dont hire a guy who has never worked with anyone and has literally barked orders his entire life to work with politicians. its fucking stupid.
Like someone said before me. people voted for trump because they dont give a fuck about anyone but themselves.
You need a politician to work with other politicians. You dont hire a guy who has never worked with anyone and has literally barked orders his entire life to work with politicians. its fucking stupid.
Like someone said before me. people voted for trump because they dont give a fuck about anyone but themselves.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Trump never even raised his own damn kids. Many quotes about just paying others to do the real work. This is going to be something.
They don't care about the jobs shit. Its a red herring. They hated her. Every news organization has spent the last year going "Clinton Foundation!" "Emails!" "Speeches!" "Liar!". It wasn't even a question on any of them "Is she corrupt?" "Should she be in jail?" It was just a given. Donald Trump joined in repeating "Corrupt Hillary" over and over. People believed it. They're sick of corrupt politicians, so they (for god knows why) voted in a corrupt business man instead.
And until liberals realize that, we're never going to make real progress in this country.
Voting is about pragmatism, and if your ideal is some progressive socialist utopia, you're never going to get there waiting for the one magic candidate who will somehow make all those reforms possible. It's all about gaining yards down a field.
There's plenty of blame to go around. To me what sticks isn't the white guys voting, because let's face it they don't have as much to lose. It's broadly people like my generation tuning out because they just couldn't get excited about Clinton. The goddamn political direction of the country isn't going to be exciting every year. Deal with it.
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
Why don't you BE the change you wanna see!! Your just spreading MORE hate!!
Well calling the racist names only makes him MORE racist. Talk nice and maybe it'll change him!!
Shit gets annoying real quick 😑😑.
That's more applicable to white people. Black people don't need to change, by and large. It's the people who have oppressed and rejected them that need to have better examples to live by.
Sadly, I'm not really exaggerating. Nothing gets through another white man's defense than ANOTHER well-to-do white guy calling them out on their intolerance.
"Treated as individuals"
Well, not anymore, thanks to the identity politics craze of the past few years. You can't really go far on the internet without seeing "You as a straight, white male..." or something to that effect.
Colour blindness is bad, so instead we seem to have opted to create a society where everyone's on eggshells and constantly hyper-aware of their race and gender. Hooray.
You'd think the uncomfortable feeling of being treated as part of a monolith due to your demographics would inspire empathy on part of white people to stop fucking over minorities for the same thing.
Oh wait, Trump is president. Huh.
VendettaRed07
Member
It doesn't really matter if he will or not. He at least made a pitch they found somewhat believable.
Hillary came out against TPP this election despite Obama supporting it for a reason. Because it was obviously an issue she felt she needed to oppose in order to win. However it was completely transparent that is all it was and not a real view or opposition to our trade deals. Nobody believed her for a second.
I don't believe she actually opposed TPP and I voted for her both times.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Never heard of her before but that was great. The only TV shows we get here in the UK that reminds me that all American's aren't mental are John Oliver and Bill Maher.
Or they'll start identifying by their race more and more, deepening the divide. This tit-for-tat attitude is not helpful imo.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
We opted to educate ourselves and never have to walk on eggshells again because we're personally involved in racial justice now.
I understand for many reasons many other white people haven't been able to keep pace or weren't at least motivated to ensure they'd never have a bad interaction with a minority again, but people on here and elsewhere being like "wait if color blindness and stereotyping are bad, why can people call me that" instead of learning to answer that question themselves when they have the resources to catch up is the current frustration for me in trying to get white people up to speed within my bubble. I hate the handholding and educating being asked of me and then being used as a weapon against me. They just stop going deeper for some reason. Also just how they don't get that that's the joke, that feeling they have is the point.
Captin Quacker
Member
which isn't too hard when you flat out lie to them
HerrPalomar
Neo Member
Have the democrats really learned nothing from this election?
Just keep on calling white people racist, homophobic, sexist, "deplorable", disgusting and stupid. They are the majority. You can not win an election without them.
I fear that the same thing will happen here in Germany next election. A LOT of people have an unreasonable and wrong fear of refugees. But instead of trying to get them to change their views, they are made fun of, called idiots, nazis, racists. Guess who they will vote for.....
Progressives need these votes as sad as it is.
Just keep on calling white people racist, homophobic, sexist, "deplorable", disgusting and stupid. They are the majority. You can not win an election without them.
I fear that the same thing will happen here in Germany next election. A LOT of people have an unreasonable and wrong fear of refugees. But instead of trying to get them to change their views, they are made fun of, called idiots, nazis, racists. Guess who they will vote for.....
Progressives need these votes as sad as it is.
Is that why you think whites voted for Trump? Hurt feelings over being called deplorable?
Samantha Bee has come out as the best of the Daily Show alum. I'm going to be watching her show regularly through the Trump years.
Trump doesn't have to bring their jobs back. He gave them scapegoats: china, mexicans, blacks, muslims, etc. All he has to do is pressure those communities and these people will be happy. "Finally, someone's going after those damn Chinese that took my job!"
JHoNNy1OoO
Member
Our problem was not white people. It was our own Democratic Party not showing up. The Trump campaign did exactly what they wanted to do. They made this election "the worst choices ever!". Only ONE side bought that narrative enough to make a difference and it was the Democratic side. So you have a depressed turn out because Hillary wasn't likable enough or liberal enough or scandal free enough. So instead of taking a chance with her and getting something, they decided to just not show up and get nothing.
Hillary and her campaign share the majority of the blame. Democratic voters share a significant part of the blame as well. Like good Democrats we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Establishment Republicans in the end came home to Trump because having the reigns of power is better than not having them. At least you will have a voice. You know what won't have a voice now in Washington? Liberal or Progressive policies other than symbolic protest votes.
We were already fucked in the majority of State and Local governments across the country. Now we are fucked in the Federal Government as well. It's not the end of the world, by any means. It is just a major, and I mean MAJOR set back.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
But guys, calling someone a racist is just as bad as racism itself. /s
That's where you're completely wrong. Voting has nothing to do with pragmatism, and everything with how the candidate makes you feel...
Which is why trump is President elect. Clinton campaigned on the idea that predictable boring pragmatism is why people should vote for her, and she lost.
Only took seven posts to try and turn this conversation back on minorities.White people almost certainly did fuck up, but white is the majority of America so it's always going to be them that fuck up when a decision doesn't go as wanted, and in this instance what is more damning to see is Democrat turn out
The republican base largely stayed at the same number the past few elections. Democrats have steadily declined. It's not as if MORE republicans than ever went out and voted Red/Trump. This was lost because blue stayed at home or decided Hillary wasn't worth voting for.
Disagree with me if you want, but I assure you getting Democrats to win again in 2020 requires them to find out why their own voters left them, not why the same people who vote republican continue to do so.
I actually think that's longer than usual, maybe we're making progress.
The argument is not that it's just as bad, the argument is that it's alienating and impossible to convince anyone when every (D) supporter basically draws a line in the sand and declares unless you are completely over this line we will not have a conversation with you.
Righteous indignation feels good but it lost Democrats the election.
Democrats can't win a presidential election without winning the white vote.
Court white demographics that you lost this election or throw a temper tantrum until they're convinced to vote (D)
Saw this last night/early this morning. As always Sam Bee on fucking point.
Pretty much. Done coddling people.
Pretty much. Done coddling people.
maquiladora
Member
If somebody is upset at being labeled a racist then why would they go and vote for a racist candidate? Surely if that person is feeling upset at being labeled something which they are not, they should be voting for a candidate that isn't racist?
The situation in Germany is not comparable at all.
Thing is, for sure not everyone who voted Trump is an "active" racist. They tolerate his racism passivley though.
Messofanego
Banned
I honestly don't get how they thought Trump of all people would bring the jobs jack. The one big businessman who heavily uses outsourcing and workers from around the world because they're way cheaper than born and bred Americans. Like, this is the dude who's going to revitalise small businesses and locally made products?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
White people almost certainly did fuck up, but white is the majority of America so it's always going to be them that fuck up when a decision doesn't go as wanted, and in this instance what is more damning to see is Democrat turn out
The republican base largely stayed at the same number the past few elections. Democrats have steadily declined. It's not as if MORE republicans than ever went out and voted Red/Trump. This was lost because blue stayed at home or decided Hillary wasn't worth voting for.
Disagree with me if you want, but I assure you getting Democrats to win again in 2020 requires them to find out why their own voters left them, not why the same people who vote republican continue to do so.
They left because Obama isn't on the ballot. Dem numbers before that fall in line with Hillary. We need another Obama.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Great video
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